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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 7:55:24 GMT
Wow a whole one example.
Well tomb raider exists, so I guess women should also shut up.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 7:57:20 GMT
Jesus fucking christ, where to start. - nobody in here is saying they want a story about fucking a bunch of people, but even if they do, so what? - the erotica industry exists and it makes a shitton of money. - why would anyone take your opinions on fiction and art seriously when you can't even recognize the validity of the short story format? - it's gobsmackingly ironic that YOU, of all people, would preach about "shallowness" and "box ticking" when you have repeatedly showcased a total unwillingness (if not a complete lack of actual capacity) to even attempt to understand why representation matters to people. - citing *fictional characters* who would hypothetically agree with you is just plain lunacy. This whole topic began with "I demand a character who fucks a lot of people. I want to see it because muh representation." It's right in the header. This isn't an erotica game. You know what also makes a ton of money, manga. But we're not going to see a bunch of giant mecha robots in Dragon Age. Nor are we going to see it in the art style. You know what also makes a lot of money, the FIFA series. But we're not going to see soccer matches. You know what else makes a lot of money? Cookbooks. But we're not going to get a cookbook. I never said short stories weren't valid. You should really try not to make things up. No, I understand why people value such things. I just recognize it for what it is: Shallow, trite, driven by hatred. Further, why would I take your opinion seriously when you've admitted that internal logic within stories is not important. Kreia was Chris Avellone's author avatar. We're not going to agree. I value characters to root for, a conflict I care enough to resolve in a certain fashion, and twists and turns along the way. If those aren't there, I believe the story is lacking. You value diversity checkboxes and think people are evil for not cramming things full of checkboxes, even if such a thing wouldn't make sense. *I* should try not to make things up? You've done nothing but spew utterly demented, easily disprovable falsehoods in not only this thread, but nearly every time you post. You realise I can just fucking scroll up to the OP, read what it says, and see that you are plainly lying, right?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 8:07:41 GMT
So where do you draw the line for representation in a game that is an ARPG and not a dating simulator? Do furries with a diaper fetish need representation? I'd rather they invest their developement resources into more gameplay oriented matters.
I can't think of a single solitary game that allows for polyamorous roleplaying
Pathfinder Kingmaker.
"I'm not prejudiced, I just want games to be good, and the only way for them to be good is if they only increase their scope to include white, straight, cis women and then stop right there, no more progress, everyone else go fuck yourselves."
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 8:11:40 GMT
Here's a fucking question, why SHOULDN'T games explore highly specific fetishes? Why aren't those groups worthy of representation?
And here's a fucking follow-up question: how precisely do you all imagine that increased diversity of representation is siphoning money away from THE PRECIOUS GAMEPLAY??!!??
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 25, 2021 9:01:33 GMT
I don't see a problem here. Game devs can do what they want and create any product they want. It's not up to us to tell them what to do. We merely decide whether the result is worth our time and money. Sure, we may be disappointed that a game we were really looking forward to didn't turn out the way we wanted to, but there's always something else to play.
If BioWare wants to put a bunch of polyamorous NPCs into their next game, so what? It's not like I'm being forced to partake in that particular romance after all. Yeah, it costs resources to make. But there's always NPCs that I don't spend much time with because I'm either not particular fond of them or simply because I like the others better. They cost resources too, and it would be silly to complain about their existence.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 9:33:35 GMT
"Costing resources" isn't even really an argument, the game can only have so many characters *regardless*. People aren't legitimately worried that increased representation will somehow make the gameplay bad, it just chaps their hide that they have to share BioWare with "the freaks" now.
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Post by bierkrug on Aug 25, 2021 10:00:25 GMT
Here's a fucking question, why SHOULDN'T games explore highly specific fetishes? Why aren't those groups worthy of representation? Because it alienates people who want to play a fantasy action game, not a fetish simulator. It loses money. You are free to support or develop such niche content, just don't expect a lot of people to buy it. And here's a fucking follow-up question: how precisely do you all imagine that increased diversity of representation is siphoning money away from THE PRECIOUS GAMEPLAY??!!?? Let's see. Someone has to design the encounters, the coders have to put it in the engine, the animators and mocap crew have to make sure everything moves as it should, the voice actors have to record lines, I suppose some adjustments have to be made for every possible PC character. I.e. a huge chunk of time for content that will only be used by a small subset of players instead of using it to make a more universally played part of the game better.
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Post by mugwump on Aug 25, 2021 10:47:29 GMT
Bierkrug, roleplaying in an RPG is gameplay! Besides, why exactly would the games entire audience choose to restrict the ways they roleplay their characters in the way you describe? I mean, I don't have to be a ruthless and amoral xenophobe in order to roleplay a renegade Shep anymore than I have to be polyamorous/gay/female/etc when deciding to roleplay my character a certain way. Come on now.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 25, 2021 10:49:10 GMT
I had always thought of the romances as a gameplay mechanic and another way to roleplay, much like Approval.
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ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
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Post by mousestalker on Aug 25, 2021 10:49:24 GMT
Here's a fucking question, why SHOULDN'T games explore highly specific fetishes? Why aren't those groups worthy of representation? And here's a fucking follow-up question: how precisely do you all imagine that increased diversity of representation is siphoning money away from THE PRECIOUS GAMEPLAY??!!?? Because the major studios do not see a market for those types of games. My advice is that you show them wrong. The big game designers take their cues from indy games. They pay close attention to what trends on Steam and such. Start or back a game that meets your criteria for a fun game. If it succeeds in the market, then other games of its ilk will follow. Relentless badgering of an exiting games fandom will probably not yield much in the way of positive results. In the mean time promote the games you like.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 25, 2021 11:00:12 GMT
Here's a fucking question, why SHOULDN'T games explore highly specific fetishes? Why aren't those groups worthy of representation? Do you know what fetishes exist out there? Furry, poo, pee, vore, gore etc. Do we really want to open that can of worms? I can totally see this happening to DA, at this point, but it's not gonna bring me in.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 25, 2021 11:29:21 GMT
Gender identities, sexual orientations, various nationalities, various races, sure but fetishes I draw the line at. In no work of fiction that I have explored have they added anything of worth to the experience. If they do it's either used for comedy or horror, a certain sidequest in Assassins Of Kings comes to mind for comedy, a lot comes to mind for horror as subverting them can make one deeply uncomfortable as in RUINER and OBSERVER as examples. If it's on display (in a positive light) simply to be present like in a Quentin Tarantino film I find it detracts from the overall experience.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 25, 2021 12:37:46 GMT
Gender identities, sexual orientations, various nationalities, various races, sure but fetishes I draw the line at. In no work of fiction that I have explored have they added anything of worth to the experience. There was this one time, where we were playing Call of Cthulhu and my character had a fetish for spiders. So when we came across our first giant spider, I got a heart attack. That added to the experience. Call of Cthulhu is so fucking weird. I didn't even fucking know that arachnophilia was a thing, until I rolled it on the derangement table. Especially weird, since I have arachnophobia. So all that just didn't fucking compute at all with me.
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Post by bierkrug on Aug 25, 2021 13:11:31 GMT
Bierkrug, roleplaying in an RPG is gameplay! Besides, why exactly would the games entire audience choose to restrict the ways they roleplay their characters in the way you describe? I mean, I don't have to be a ruthless and amoral xenophobe in order to roleplay a renegade Shep anymore than I have to be polyamorous/gay/female/etc when deciding to roleplay my character a certain way. Come on now. I'm not saying it isn't. It's just the very specific niche stuff that I don't see much use in putting there. Just like I don't see the need to waste resources on minor decisions that were made three games ago.
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Post by Gwydden on Aug 25, 2021 13:41:38 GMT
There was this one time, where we were playing Call of Cthulhu and my character had a fetish for spiders. So when we came across our first giant spider, I got a heart attack. That added to the experience. Call of Cthulhu is so fucking weird. I didn't even fucking know that arachnophilia was a thing, until I rolled it on the derangement table. Especially weird, since I have arachnophobia. So all that just didn't fucking compute at all with me. That at least explains some of Shadow of Mordor's adaptation choices. I'm not saying it isn't. It's just the very specific niche stuff that I don't see much use in putting there. Just like I don't see the need to waste resources on minor decisions that were made three games ago. Bioware already did polyamory in Jade Empire and I've never seen anyone complain about it. No need to catastrophize about it now.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 25, 2021 14:01:30 GMT
I think some of the problem is how to present a poly relationship that doesn't come off as being unfaithful/cheating on love interest or a "'fun' just this one time only 3 or 4 some" with their love interest because the opportunity presents itself.
I don't think the Isabela/Zevron/Leliana/Warden foursome was the Warden and Leliana being in poly relationship it's just they see a chance for that kind of that kind of sexual experience and the Warden decides to take it, and depending on how the Warden has influenced Leliana she can actually be hurt or get upset by even the Warden even suggesting it, and this makes Isabela backs out of it. And even if she is harden she only agrees to it because to keep an eye on the Warden, not because she wants to sleep with Isabela and/or Zevron and IIRC there is a line that after the foursome she says something to effect of: "We will never speak of or do this again." So she's not into that and/or maybe Isabela and/or Zevron failed to sexually satisfy her.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 25, 2021 14:47:40 GMT
I seem to recall a dev saying a long time ago that they would probably only do a poly romance if it was the PC joining an established couple or something. For practical reasons.
The variation that would have to be accounted for if several or any romance could become part of a poly relationship would create exponentially more work for the devs.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 25, 2021 15:09:55 GMT
The variation that would have to be accounted for if several or any romance could become part of a poly relationship would create exponentially more work for the devs. This is the practical answer.
As an aside, we might want to tone down the bait and aggression in this thread...
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 25, 2021 15:31:06 GMT
This whole topic began with "I demand a character who fucks a lot of people. I want to see it because muh representation." It's right in the header. They did not demand for a character who sleeps with a ton of people. There are a lot of polyamorous people who sleep with less people than a lot of monogamous people. For example say someone in a poly relationship has only been with those two partners, while someone who doesn’t do poly relationships has been with three or more. It’s not the poly person whose been with a lot of people. I think you should re-read the initial post. It was: "Jade Empire gave poly, and I want more poly representation because muh representation."
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 25, 2021 15:33:37 GMT
I think some of the problem is how to present a poly relationship that doesn't come off as being unfaithful/cheating on love interest or a "'fun' just this one time only 3 or 4 some" with their love interest because the opportunity presents itself. I don't think the Isabela/Zevron/Leliana/Warden foursome was the Warden and Leliana being in poly relationship it's just they see a chance for that kind of that kind of sexual experience and the Warden decides to take it, and depending on how the Warden has influenced Leliana she can actually be hurt or get upset by even the Warden even suggesting it, and this makes Isabela backs out of it. And even if she is harden she only agrees to it because to keep an eye on the Warden, not because she wants to sleep with Isabela and/or Zevron and IIRC there is a line that after the foursome she says something to effect of: "We will never speak of or do this again." So she's not into that and/or maybe Isabela and/or Zevron failed to sexually satisfy her. It was a bad hookup, that's all it was. Leliana was down for the idea and the fantasy didn't match reality. One of the classic Star Trek lines was "having is not as pleasing as wanting." It happens.
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Post by phoray on Aug 25, 2021 16:44:33 GMT
This whole topic began with "I demand a character who fucks a lot of people. I want to see it because muh representation." It's right in the header. They did not demand for a character who sleeps with a ton of people. There are a lot of polyamorous people who sleep with less people than a lot of monogamous people. For example say someone in a poly relationship has only been with those two partners, while someone who doesn’t do poly relationships has been with three or more. It’s not the poly person whose been with a lot of people. Yep. There was a good long time where I was with the same two men "in the biblical sense" for 6 years from 23-29. Before poly, when I thought I was mono, I think I had 13 lovers between age 16 and 23. Polyamory isn't screwing everyone but it's a big umbrella term that is supposed to encapsulate various forms of romantic entanglement. A lot of people think swinging is poly and the swingers themselves will usually be the first to say "absolutely no feelings, just sexy fun"
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Post by phoray on Aug 25, 2021 16:50:18 GMT
Duskwanderer
Polyamory is not ethical sluttery. There is overlap, but that is not what OP was asking for.
So stop calling Polyamory a fetish when it is literally a relationship structure
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 25, 2021 17:14:02 GMT
Duskwanderer Polyamory is not ethical sluttery. There is overlap, but that is not what OP was asking for. So stop calling Polyamory a fetish when it is literally a relationship structure Maybe he's confusing it with cuckolding fetishes?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 17:26:11 GMT
Here's a fucking question, why SHOULDN'T games explore highly specific fetishes? Why aren't those groups worthy of representation? And here's a fucking follow-up question: how precisely do you all imagine that increased diversity of representation is siphoning money away from THE PRECIOUS GAMEPLAY??!!?? Because the major studios do not see a market for those types of games. My advice is that you show them wrong. The big game designers take their cues from indy games. They pay close attention to what trends on Steam and such. Start or back a game that meets your criteria for a fun game. If it succeeds in the market, then other games of its ilk will follow. Relentless badgering of an exiting games fandom will probably not yield much in the way of positive results. In the mean time promote the games you like. That's why it doesn't happen, not why it shouldn't happen . Very different questions. What I am asking, what I want to know (haha, not really, I already know what people are going to say and what they actually think) is why any aspect of the human experience should be considered off limits for creators to explore, in video games or any other medium.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2021 17:40:52 GMT
They did not demand for a character who sleeps with a ton of people. There are a lot of polyamorous people who sleep with less people than a lot of monogamous people. For example say someone in a poly relationship has only been with those two partners, while someone who doesn’t do poly relationships has been with three or more. It’s not the poly person whose been with a lot of people. I think you should re-read the initial post. It was: "Jade Empire gave poly, and I want more poly representation because muh representation." And aside from your pathetic, transparent attempt to re-write the original content of the OP in order to make the author look stupid and unreasonable, what's actually wrong with that request? People are allowed to just want things for their own sake, they don't have to justify anything, least of all to you.
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