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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 2, 2021 16:25:29 GMT
Even before we learn about their "demon army" he seems to hate the wardens and I really don't understand it. It is like an obsession with him and I am curious as to why. Anyone know?
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 2, 2021 16:27:16 GMT
Maybe Solas is afraid of them. Maybe the Blight factors into Solas's plans somehow (wasn't he doing something with a red lyrium idol). Perhaps he plans on seizing control of the Blight.
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Post by Zemgus on Sept 2, 2021 17:03:18 GMT
I don't think Solas hates them per say he just seems to think that what they're doing is short-sighted and is also appalled by their plans to seek out and kill the remaining Old Gods. Why does he think that? Well, we don't know but obviously he's far more knowledgeable about these matters than all the Grey Wardens combined.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 2, 2021 17:06:58 GMT
Even before we learn about their "demon army" he seems to hate the wardens and I really don't understand it. It is like an obsession with him and I am curious as to why. Anyone know? The vibe I get is that it’s bad to create a bunch more people who respond to the Calling. Like maybe they deal with the immediate threat, but the force behind the Blight is ultimately working through them. I don’t think that force is elves or titans, but something from the Void. Multiple different cultures reference the Void in connection to the Blight, and now with Tevinter Nights we know there’s weird eldritch monsters that can’t be traced back to the Fade or any other known sources. So it seems like the Void is something distinct from what we’ve been introduced to. The Blight appears to be Spooky Ancient Magic to everyone, ancient elves included. Andruil, the Architect, Corypheus, and of course the Wardens have attempted to harness it, but it’s bigger than them and has unknown plans. And even putting all that aside, killing all the archdemons (whether quickly or over multiple blights) seems like a doomed idea on its face. Where are all the darkspawn going to go when they’re not being distracted by digging for the next archdemon? The whole reason non-Blight eras exist is because the darkspawn are busy. The best case scenario for Wardens is that their strategy creates a neverending Blight. Worse scenarios involve whatever the hell the Void is up to.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2021 19:31:14 GMT
Even before we learn about their "demon army" he seems to hate the wardens and I really don't understand it. It is like an obsession with him and I am curious as to why. Anyone know? Well he seems to think they are meddling in things that they don't really understand and that could have bad implications down the line. A case of the "pot calling the kettle black" or they remind him too much of his own past mistakes with meddling. It definitely seem clear that he knows more than he was willing to let on about the origins of the Blight and the connection with the Old Gods. A pity he didn't tell us more but of course that would have meant revealing himself before he was willing to do so. For example, he asks Blackwall the question about what happens when the last Arch-demon is dead. He says: "Without Archdemons, there can be no Blights. Is that the reasoning?" When Blackwall asks where he is going with this line of thought, Solas replies "Nowhere. I hope they are correct." Now you can argue he is just speculating but Solas never says anything without a purpose and not only does he seem to be casting doubt on this hypothesis but I think it comes from knowing more. When talking with Vivienne about the use of blight magic by Corypheus: "The blight corrupts everything it touches. Those who believe themselves capable of using it safely are mad." Vivienne comments that the Wardens are said to be connected in some way to the blight, to which he responds: "That explains why we saw no old men at Adamant" Then there is this conversation with Varric and Blackwall: Solas: The Grey Wardens allow elves and dwarves into their ranks? Varric: Qunari too I imagine. They don't care about titles or blood, just stopping the Blight. Solas: A pity they do it so badly then. Blackwall: Would you care to repeat that? Solas: Argue if you like, your fight against the darkspawn is noble, but what progress have you made? Varric: Give them some credit, it's not like you can study the Blight safely. I may not like everything they've done, but without the wardens, we'd all be blighted by now. Solas: They've bought us some time, I will grant them that. Remember this statement is coming from someone who is meant to have been slumbering for millennia. How come he knows so much that he can make such comments about the efforts of the Grey Wardens? Why does he say "they've bought us time"? This is why I am convinced his future actions are intended at least in part to counter the blight. This is also why he disapproves of the Grey Wardens because perhaps he feels that inadvertently they could either interfere with his plan or possibly set something worse in motion before he is ready to deal with it.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 2, 2021 20:35:32 GMT
I don't think Solas hates them per say he just seems to think that what they're doing is short-sighted and is also appalled by their plans to seek out and kill the remaining Old Gods. Why does he think that? Well, we don't know but obviously he's far more knowledgeable about these matters than all the Grey Wardens combined. Given that Solas's connection to the story is that he screws up everything he touches...I'm not sure I agree.
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 2, 2021 23:50:48 GMT
It could be something relatively straightforward like what gervaise21 said (which is supported by in-game dialogue btw)... but I suspect there's a more personal connection relating to a piece of lore that hasn't been revealed yet- namely, the (possible/probable) connection between the Old God dragons and the Evanuris. It could be a deliberate red herring, but there's enough smoke around this connection (the number of Evanuris/old god dragons being the same, the bit in Trespasser about dragons being "the form of the divine". theories RE the relation of the Evanuris and the blight/the black city and the role the old god dragons might play, etc) to make a fire seem reasonably likely.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 3, 2021 15:42:11 GMT
It could be something relatively straightforward like what gervaise21 said (which is supported by in-game dialogue btw)... but I suspect there's a more personal connection relating to a piece of lore that hasn't been revealed yet- namely, the (possible/probable) connection between the Old God dragons and the Evanuris. It could be a deliberate red herring, but there's enough smoke around this connection (the number of Evanuris/old god dragons being the same, the bit in Trespasser about dragons being "the form of the divine". theories RE the relation of the Evanuris and the blight/the black city and the role the old god dragons might play, etc) to make a fire seem reasonably likely. One thing you have to consider about Solas is that he's slumbered for millennia. He has very little firsthand experience with the world. Even if you want to assume he could hear spirits in the Fade to inform him of things, spirits are not reliable narrators (and Solas admits that)
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 3, 2021 16:59:40 GMT
One thing you have to consider about Solas is that he's slumbered for millennia. He has very little firsthand experience with the world. Even if you want to assume he could hear spirits in the Fade to inform him of things, spirits are not reliable narrators (and Solas admits that) That depends on when the Blight first came into being. His attitude towards the Grey Wardens and conversations about them and the Blight, gives the impression he is speaking from something more than a friendly chat with spirits in the Fade. He was almost beside himself with anxiety about the need to stop the Wardens from killing the last two Old Gods. That was what first made me suspicious about him. It was too intense to be based on some vague information from spirits. Remember when he is ranting on about people not listening to his advice with respect to other subjects, when he says he "saw it in the Fade" he usually means he actually experienced it before he entered his slumber. Now it is quite possible he doesn't know for certain that killing the last two Old Gods would be bad but he seems reasonably sure it should be avoided. Suggesting he probably knows more about the identity of the Old Gods than we do. Of course, there is also Flemeth to consider in all this, or rather Mythal. Why was she so determined to capture the soul of the Old God? I had a theory previously that the Old Gods could be the split soul of the other Evanuris and so the last thing she wanted to happen was for the soul to be released into the Fade where it could reunite with their other half or, alternatively, do what she did and find a host to allow them to return to the world unchained and unblighted. (I'm fairly certain it will be shown at some point that the Wardens got it wrong that it destroys the soul). When Flemeth says it was "snatched from the jaws of darkness", I think she means the Void, which is where I believe the Evanuris are. It is certainly where Dalish legend and the Ancient Elf legend in the ToM says the Forgotten Ones are. Solas does say that he never thought that Corypheus would have learned the secret of effective immortality. Did Corypheus only share his soul with the dragon after being released by Hawke or did he actually split his soul with it before he was captured by the Grey Wardens? If the latter, the dragon probably went into hibernation to await his return. Since we were told his "immortality" was dependent on his dragon, that does seem more likely.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 3, 2021 17:33:54 GMT
One thing you have to consider about Solas is that he's slumbered for millennia. He has very little firsthand experience with the world. Even if you want to assume he could hear spirits in the Fade to inform him of things, spirits are not reliable narrators (and Solas admits that) That depends on when the Blight first came into being. His attitude towards the Grey Wardens and conversations about them and the Blight, gives the impression he is speaking from something more than a friendly chat with spirits in the Fade. He was almost beside himself with anxiety about the need to stop the Wardens from killing the last two Old Gods. That was what first made me suspicious about him. It was too intense to be based on some vague information from spirits. Remember when he is ranting on about people not listening to his advice with respect to other subjects, when he says he "saw it in the Fade" he usually means he actually experienced it before he entered his slumber. Now it is quite possible he doesn't know for certain that killing the last two Old Gods would be bad but he seems reasonably sure it should be avoided. Suggesting he probably knows more about the identity of the Old Gods than we do. Of course, there is also Flemeth to consider in all this, or rather Mythal. Why was she so determined to capture the soul of the Old God? I had a theory previously that the Old Gods could be the split soul of the other Evanuris and so the last thing she wanted to happen was for the soul to be released into the Fade where it could reunite with their other half or, alternatively, do what she did and find a host to allow them to return to the world unchained and unblighted. (I'm fairly certain it will be shown at some point that the Wardens got it wrong that it destroys the soul). When Flemeth says it was "snatched from the jaws of darkness", I think she means the Void, which is where I believe the Evanuris are. It is certainly where Dalish legend and the Ancient Elf legend in the ToM says the Forgotten Ones are. Solas does say that he never thought that Corypheus would have learned the secret of effective immortality. Did Corypheus only share his soul with the dragon after being released by Hawke or did he actually split his soul with it before he was captured by the Grey Wardens? If the latter, the dragon probably went into hibernation to await his return. Since we were told his "immortality" was dependent on his dragon, that does seem more likely. Aside from the usual "Solas never speaks straight" argument, Solas's argument could simply be a result of the fact that they are using demons as a response to his massive worry. He doesn't use the same kind of worry in the other conversations with Varric or whomever, it's only when he's talking about the specific plan. With Blackwall, he's fairly calm about the concept of destroying the Old Gods and that would end the Blight. That's the big difference that could turn his simple dislike to outright hatred. Flemeth might know something more about the Old God's souls than anyone else. It could simply be a source of power, maybe something like the foci. Perhaps they were weapons of some kind.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 3, 2021 18:17:34 GMT
With Blackwall, he's fairly calm about the concept of destroying the Old Gods and that would end the Blight. I think you mistake calmness for what is actually caution about revealing too much about himself. After all, if when Blackwall asks where he is going with this, he responded "You are idiots if you think that will stop the blight", Blackwall might reasonably ask "How do you know that?" The usual "I saw it in the Fade" won't wash, so he is then opening himself up to greater scrutiny. So, instead, he backs off from outright confrontation and just responds, mildly, that he hopes they are right, even though it is possible he knows they are absolutely wrong. However, when the Grey Wardens are planning on doing what should normally only happen when an Arch-demon surfaces, he becomes worried. Remember he does not yet have his orb back, so any "plans" he had for his old enemies cannot be brought to fruition without it. If the Grey Wardens succeed in their crazy plan, it could throw everything into disarray. Luckily throwing caution to the winds in order to get his anxiety across doesn't rouse suspicion because everyone thinks it is a bad idea, though for varying reasons. Meanwhile, as an external observer, I thought it was fishy how he did lose his normal calm demeanour and seems positively frantic at the idea. What he is expressing is not so much hatred as contempt that these fools think they know how to control the blight, when they really have no idea what they are messing with.
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Post by Sonya on Sept 3, 2021 18:23:30 GMT
Now it is quite possible he doesn't know for certain that killing the last two Old Gods would be bad but he seems reasonably sure it should be avoided. Suggesting he probably knows more about the identity of the Old Gods than we do. Considering Solas lying nature in addition to his sensitivity on the topic the question might as well be: avoided because it will be bad for Solas agenda, but good for the whole world? Do not kill them: Solas is able to use whatever "Old Gods" might be in the future. Kill them: the whole world is safe. Morrigan, Flemeth are always talking about "saving wonders/magic/etc". Flemeth taught Morrigan that. Thus that soul of the Old God might be one of those things, not yet destroyed.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 3, 2021 20:30:14 GMT
With Blackwall, he's fairly calm about the concept of destroying the Old Gods and that would end the Blight. I think you mistake calmness for what is actually caution about revealing too much about himself. After all, if when Blackwall asks where he is going with this, he responded "You are idiots if you think that will stop the blight", Blackwall might reasonably ask "How do you know that?" The usual "I saw it in the Fade" won't wash, so he is then opening himself up to greater scrutiny. So, instead, he backs off from outright confrontation and just responds, mildly, that he hopes they are right, even though it is possible he knows they are absolutely wrong. However, when the Grey Wardens are planning on doing what should normally only happen when an Arch-demon surfaces, he becomes worried. Remember he does not yet have his orb back, so any "plans" he had for his old enemies cannot be brought to fruition without it. If the Grey Wardens succeed in their crazy plan, it could throw everything into disarray. Luckily throwing caution to the winds in order to get his anxiety across doesn't rouse suspicion because everyone thinks it is a bad idea, though for varying reasons. Meanwhile, as an external observer, I thought it was fishy how he did lose his normal calm demeanour and seems positively frantic at the idea. What he is expressing is not so much hatred as contempt that these fools think they know how to control the blight, when they really have no idea what they are messing with. You're starting to speculate, and the concept that an Archdemon leads the Blight is not a foreign concept: Calian was familiar with it, as was Sten, and the latter absolutely had no experience with Wardens. Further, the fact that Solas is still going with his plans despite the orb being destroyed tells me that, while he wants it, he does have a plan for not using it, which certainly leads that he doesn't need it for all encounters.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 3, 2021 22:09:30 GMT
Now it is quite possible he doesn't know for certain that killing the last two Old Gods would be bad but he seems reasonably sure it should be avoided. Suggesting he probably knows more about the identity of the Old Gods than we do. Considering Solas lying nature in addition to his sensitivity on the topic the question might as well be: avoided because it will be bad for Solas agenda, but good for the whole world? Do not kill them: Solas is able to use whatever "Old Gods" might be in the future. Kill them: the whole world is safe.Morrigan, Flemeth are always talking about "saving wonders/magic/etc". Flemeth taught Morrigan that. Thus that soul of the Old God might be one of those things, not yet destroyed. I can't speak for Solas given his usual vagueness, but i'd argue there is enough evidence via the Awakening DLC to show that Thedas should be deeply worried if all the Old Gods are killed off. No old gods presumably means no old god song. Which in turn means that the darksawn would likely be free from thier compulsion to seek it out. Freed from the force that compelled and demanded them to dig and meander in the deep roads. Which means best case scenario, all of these darkspawn will all of a sudden have no need to stay below the surface and will mindlessly try to encroach on topside Thedas. Even if the overworld nations were willing to view them as a notable albeit unorganized threat and mobilize against them, I'd say there are enough darkspawn to eventually spread the taint to the less populous regions of the map before making moves on more populated regions years and years down the line. Worst case scenario? A solid portion of those darkspawn will gain their own personality, mind, and awareness of themselves. Which means they are capable of organizing, strategizing, and planning. If enough of them get together (or exert influence on the mindless darkspawn), that could very well be a recipe for an old god-less blight. Smaller ones, admittedly. But when one considers that their leaders are not confined to a single massive individual and can easily be replaced if they establish a chain-of-command, it would arguably be worse since they can 'pop up' in a manner that would make previous blight outbursts look sluggish. And Maker help them all if they straight up form a religion or something that advocates spreading the taint to search for their long-gone gods... On the plus side, Dragon Age could feasibly get its equivalent of dark elves and orcs if enough darkspawn embrace their newfound freedom to found their own societies. Could honestly be interesting development for the series when, all of a sudden, Thedas now have to contend with another sapient "cursed" race that are inherently capable of spreading a dangerous disease that was uniformly hated throughout history. I may not trust what Solas wants to do with the old gods, but I don't trust the result of killing them all off either.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 3, 2021 22:39:46 GMT
Considering Solas lying nature in addition to his sensitivity on the topic the question might as well be: avoided because it will be bad for Solas agenda, but good for the whole world? Do not kill them: Solas is able to use whatever "Old Gods" might be in the future. Kill them: the whole world is safe.Morrigan, Flemeth are always talking about "saving wonders/magic/etc". Flemeth taught Morrigan that. Thus that soul of the Old God might be one of those things, not yet destroyed. I can't speak for Solas given his usual vagueness, but i'd argue there is enough evidence via the Awakening DLC to show that Thedas should be deeply worried if all the Old Gods are killed off. No old gods presumably means no old god song. Which in turn means that the darksawn would likely be free from thier compulsion to seek it out. Freed from the force that compelled and demanded them to dig and meander in the deep roads. Which means best case scenario, all of these darkspawn will all of a sudden have no need to stay below the surface and will mindlessly try to encroach on topside Thedas. Even if the overworld nations were willing to view them as a notable albeit unorganized threat and mobilize against them, I'd say there are enough darkspawn to eventually spread the taint to the less populous regions of the map before making moves on more populated regions years and years down the line. Worst case scenario? A solid portion of those darkspawn will gain their own personality, mind, and awareness of themselves. Which means they are capable of organizing, strategizing, and planning. If enough of them get together (or exert influence on the mindless darkspawn), that could very well be a recipe for an old god-less blight. Smaller ones, admittedly. But when one considers that their leaders are not confined to a single massive individual and can easily be replaced if they establish a chain-of-command, it would arguably be worse since they can 'pop up' in a manner that would make previous blight outbursts look sluggish. And Maker help them all if they straight up form a religion or something that advocates spreading the taint to search for their long-gone gods... On the plus side, Dragon Age could feasibly get its equivalent of dark elves and orcs if enough darkspawn embrace their newfound freedom to found their own societies. Could honestly be interesting development for the series when, all of a sudden, Thedas now have to contend with another sapient "cursed" race that are inherently capable of spreading a dangerous disease that was uniformly hated throughout history. I may not trust what Solas wants to do with the old gods, but I don't trust the result of killing them all off either. Darkspawn freed of the compulsion of the Old God develop their own personality, however, they are a very chaotic society: Darkspawn often kill each other. They also tend to be very hierarchal.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2021 7:20:36 GMT
Could honestly be interesting development for the series when, all of a sudden, Thedas now have to contend with another sapient "cursed" race that are inherently capable of spreading a dangerous disease that was uniformly hated throughout history. The problem is that the taint isn't just confined to sentient beings; it affects everything it touches. If the darkspawn remain in any area long enough it becomes a wasteland. We are told that is what happened with the Anderfels and it also happened on a more local level with Lothering. It probably also accounts for the state of the Silent Plains. I wondered why there wasn't more widespread lasting pollution following other Blights and it probably did have to do with the fact that the darkspawn remain as far as possible within range of the Arch-demon. It is why there was originally doubt cast on the 5th Blight being an actual blight because no one had actually seen the Arch-demon on the surface but the Grey Wardens knew it was a blight because they could sense the Arch-demon was on the move. If the countryside is polluted, either short or long term, it can't grow food to sustain the population. So if the darkspawn are spending more time on the surface and moving around, having no Arch-demon to hold them in one place, there is greater chance that the unpolluted races will die from starvation even if they aren't infected with the blight or killed by darkspawn.
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Post by Sonya on Sept 4, 2021 8:11:15 GMT
I can't speak for Solas given his usual vagueness, but i'd argue there is enough evidence via the Awakening DLC to show that Thedas should be deeply worried if all the Old Gods are killed off. No old gods presumably means no old god song. Which in turn means that the darksawn would likely be free from thier compulsion to seek it out. Freed from the force that compelled and demanded them to dig and meander in the deep roads. Which means best case scenario, all of these darkspawn will all of a sudden have no need to stay below the surface and will mindlessly try to encroach on topside Thedas. Even if the overworld nations were willing to view them as a notable albeit unorganized threat and mobilize against them, I'd say there are enough darkspawn to eventually spread the taint to the less populous regions of the map before making moves on more populated regions years and years down the line. Worst case scenario? A solid portion of those darkspawn will gain their own personality, mind, and awareness of themselves. Which means they are capable of organizing, strategizing, and planning. If enough of them get together (or exert influence on the mindless darkspawn), that could very well be a recipe for an old god-less blight. Smaller ones, admittedly. But when one considers that their leaders are not confined to a single massive individual and can easily be replaced if they establish a chain-of-command, it would arguably be worse since they can 'pop up' in a manner that would make previous blight outbursts look sluggish. And Maker help them all if they straight up form a religion or something that advocates spreading the taint to search for their long-gone gods... On the plus side, Dragon Age could feasibly get its equivalent of dark elves and orcs if enough darkspawn embrace their newfound freedom to found their own societies. Could honestly be interesting development for the series when, all of a sudden, Thedas now have to contend with another sapient "cursed" race that are inherently capable of spreading a dangerous disease that was uniformly hated throughout history. I may not trust what Solas wants to do with the old gods, but I don't trust the result of killing them all off either. Agree as it is another opinion how things might develop without the creature in charge. I can't say that my words "the world is safe/Solas will use Old Gods to do something...again" are ture. But that's possible and I have arguments tellng that. The same thing as there are argument with other opinions as yours. Lack of infomation, hints here, hints there, can't already understand what is more real. E.g. your description of further events after killing the Old Gods. People will die, be tainted but in the very end the darkspawn will die out/be eliminated. Or The darkspawn will be like another organization maybe even with a certain goal. Who will lead them? Are they capable of having another leader without killing each other? Honestly - have no idea. All these paths people have mentioned are possible in any case and have actual arguments, unless something else pops up to tell that one option can't be possible at all. Really hope DA4 will clarify these questions without futher "make you own guesses". Yeah, that's good for people as they are thinking, using logic, memory, facts, books, game event. Only doubt BW is interested in development of people's ability "to think".
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legbamel
N3
Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
XBL Gamertag: Legbamel
Posts: 707 Likes: 1,490
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by legbamel on Sept 4, 2021 13:23:29 GMT
Even in DAO the Darkspawn were semi-organized. They had camps and they held prisoners. They breed by doing horrific things to people to create broodmothers. No one know how many fill the Deep Roads or how many ways to the surface they have. They're clearly proficient diggers. They could pop out anywhere without warning. Their presence destroys plants and wildlife, leaving the ground sterile. How would Thedas defend against that, especially given the political divisions?
I have wondered since they explained much of this in Origins whether we would ever address the blighted elephant in the room. Eventually the last Archdemon would be found and, one hopes, slain. What then? There is no possible way for people to live with the Darkspawn. The Blight is antithetical to the living world. There's no prevention besides avoidance and no cure.
"But the Architect?" you say. Grey Wardens are considered effectively infertile. They don't spread the Blight and whatever is in the Archdemon blood, the other ingredients, or the Joining ritual itself slows down the progression. That buys them two or three decades of slowly turning into ghouls. If there are no Archdemons there is no Calling to let them know it's time for a noble death throwing themselves against the horde. The Joining kills a significant portion of those who undergo it and the Architect never did get his proposed melding to take Darkspawn even that far (disregarding how many went mad when cut off from the Archdemon's song). Not to mention there isn't enough Archdemon or Warden blood to make a dent in "innoculating" even a fraction of either living or Darkspawn populations.
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xerrai
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Post by xerrai on Sept 4, 2021 17:15:09 GMT
Could honestly be interesting development for the series when, all of a sudden, Thedas now have to contend with another sapient "cursed" race that are inherently capable of spreading a dangerous disease that was uniformly hated throughout history. The problem is that the taint isn't just confined to sentient beings; it affects everything it touches. If the darkspawn remain in any area long enough it becomes a wasteland. We are told that is what happened with the Anderfels and it also happened on a more local level with Lothering. It probably also accounts for the state of the Silent Plains. [...] So if the darkspawn are spending more time on the surface and moving around, having no Arch-demon to hold them in one place, there is greater chance that the unpolluted races will die from starvation even if they aren't infected with the blight or killed by darkspawn. Oh i'm counting on it. I'm not into the idea of Dragon Age darkspawn as a sapient race for sunshine and roses. I'm in it for the tragedy inherent in being a living, thinking being living a world that can't stand them. Literally. Like there is no ecological space for them unless it is entirely made up of non-organic matter. And trying to integrate with other races is no go because they all hate you. Odds are they won't gel well with other darkspawn either since most of them are still either mindless and/or barbaric. Yes, Barkspawn, who is named after a dog because he doesn't know better, I know you want to go where the people are. But you can't. Not without contributing to its destruction. Now go back into the deep road tunnels like a good scourge. Don't want to be caught by the orlesian hunting parties do you? What's that? Your brethren are going to kill you because they are raving animals? Well you're going to die up here if you try to go anywhere else. Oh you want to have puppy before you die? Suuuure.....it's going to die though. Or become a raving beast. Do you really want to subject an innocent creature to that? It's going to die in pain, Barkspawn. You can take this potted white flower representing innocence, though. It will also die. But no one will care if it dies with you.
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