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Post by andydandymandy on Nov 20, 2021 0:14:08 GMT
Per that David Gaider Twitch stream months back.
"The HoF didn’t appear in DAI because giving them a voice is just asking for trouble. For about half of development they tried to have the HoF be the Warden across from Hawke in that DAI plot, but it was just too weird. “We were like, everybody is going to be really upset at this. We can’t make them look like they did in DAO, we have to give them a voice, everyone is going to be upset. Late in the day we had to cut it and boy did that require some fancy writing on PW’s part to write around that.” The thing they had for the longest time was that right at the point where the HoF would come out from the back, the player would be popped over to CC and be made to recreate their Warden, which kind of ruined the surprise. That was so heavy on the GUI requirements and they were so worried that it would be really strange, and then how do you account for people who never played the previous games or the fact that the Warden is from years and 2 games ago by then?"
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 20, 2021 17:20:19 GMT
Using the warden for that would have been a very bad idea.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 21, 2021 13:05:26 GMT
Using the warden for that would have been a very bad idea. Yea hthe ymd e the right choice in the end Having it eithe rbe Alistair, Loghain o rStrou dwa the right move I think. Especiaally as we already had Hawke returning anyway.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 21, 2021 21:18:00 GMT
Using the warden for that would have been a very bad idea. Yea hthe ymd e the right choice in the end Having it eithe rbe Alistair, Loghain o rStrou dwa the right move I think. Especiaally as we already had Hawke returning anyway. It would have taken a ton of resources as well. You would have six possible variation just in character design. Male and female version of human,elf,and dwarf. This is gonna be the problem they have in DA4 with the inquisitor.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 21, 2021 21:35:52 GMT
Yea hthe ymd e the right choice in the end Having it eithe rbe Alistair, Loghain o rStrou dwa the right move I think. Especiaally as we already had Hawke returning anyway. It would have taken a ton of resources as well. You would have six possible variation just in character design. Male and female version of human,elf,and dwarf. This is gonna be the problem they have in DA4 with the inquisitor. I wouldn' t necessarily say it'll be a problem as they can just use the sam CC as they use for the main DA4 character if necessaqry. It's more how they would fit into the story plus all 4 VA's that voiced the Inquisitor I believe are still active in the VA world so it would be a simple matter of calling them back to reprise the role. Assuming that is if the Inquisitor does make an appearance in DA4's story as we don't know if they definitely will yet as far as I know.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 22, 2021 0:23:08 GMT
It would have taken a ton of resources as well. You would have six possible variation just in character design. Male and female version of human,elf,and dwarf. This is gonna be the problem they have in DA4 with the inquisitor. I wouldn' t necessarily say it'll be a problem as they can just use the sam CC as they use for the main DA4 character if necessaqry. It's more how they would fit into the story plus all 4 VA's that voiced the Inquisitor I believe are still active in the VA world so it would be a simple matter of calling them back to reprise the role. Assuming that is if the Inquisitor does make an appearance in DA4's story as we don't know if they definitely will yet as far as I know. We don't know but I think it's safe to say it's likely. But even if they only allow you to use the default inquisitor for each race that is four different sized characters since each race is different heights and sizes. It won't be impossible but it would take more resources then hawk did for example. I didn't even think about the different VA's. I didn't know they used four VA's though. I thought they just changed the voice a little for each inquistor race using some machine.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 22, 2021 1:16:00 GMT
I wouldn' t necessarily say it'll be a problem as they can just use the sam CC as they use for the main DA4 character if necessaqry. It's more how they would fit into the story plus all 4 VA's that voiced the Inquisitor I believe are still active in the VA world so it would be a simple matter of calling them back to reprise the role. Assuming that is if the Inquisitor does make an appearance in DA4's story as we don't know if they definitely will yet as far as I know. We don't know but I think it's safe to say it's likely. But even if they only allow you to use the default inquisitor for each race that is four different sized characters since each race is different heights and sizes. It won't be impossible but it would take more resources then hawk did for example. I didn't even think about the different VA's. I didn't know they used four VA's though. I thought they just changed the voice a little for each inquistor race using some machine. Yeah the yhad 4 VA's 2 female and2 male ones 1 British 1 American for each. They'll likel yhave all 4 races as options fo rthe main character too though which is what I've been sayin gthey'll just likel ycop yand paste that CC and use it fo tthe Inquisitor much like they did in DAI with Hawke when yo ureach the point they com ein. It won't be that hard to do. As it's likel yall 4 races are going to be in the game anyway just like they were in DAI.
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Post by ThatDamnableRogue on Nov 23, 2021 3:09:51 GMT
That would've been terrible and incredible at the same time!
Hmm. What if, instead of Stroud, the default Warden was one of the companions from Awakening? That would've been interesting. (And possibly more impactful, since you spend more time with them than Stroud anyway)
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 23, 2021 17:33:44 GMT
What's a HoF?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 23, 2021 18:51:44 GMT
Hero of Ferelden as in the warden we play as in Origins
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Nov 23, 2021 22:21:55 GMT
That would've been terrible and incredible at the same time! Hmm. What if, instead of Stroud, the default Warden was one of the companions from Awakening? That would've been interesting. (And possibly more impactful, since you spend more time with them than Stroud anyway) That probably would've been oghren? All the others could wind up deade, that said I would've loved Nathaniel Howe to make a cameo in DAI.
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Post by ThatDamnableRogue on Nov 24, 2021 16:40:10 GMT
That would've been terrible and incredible at the same time! Hmm. What if, instead of Stroud, the default Warden was one of the companions from Awakening? That would've been interesting. (And possibly more impactful, since you spend more time with them than Stroud anyway) That probably would've been oghren? All the others could wind up deade, that said I would've loved Nathaniel Howe to make a cameo in DAI. I suppose that of all the Awakening companions, Oghren would probably make the most narrative sense. He’s a companion in the main campaign of Origins, too, so there’s a chance the player might be more attached to him. (Personally, leaving him in the Fade would be an easy choice for me haha) That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 24, 2021 17:43:06 GMT
That probably would've been oghren? All the others could wind up deade, that said I would've loved Nathaniel Howe to make a cameo in DAI. I suppose that of all the Awakening companions, Oghren would probably make the most narrative sense. He’s a companion in the main campaign of Origins, too, so there’s a chance the player might be more attached to him. (Personally, leaving him in the Fade would be an easy choice for me haha) That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling. We do see Alistair of course if hre's th ewarden of choice but other than that no.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 24, 2021 19:35:34 GMT
That probably would've been oghren? All the others could wind up deade, that said I would've loved Nathaniel Howe to make a cameo in DAI. I suppose that of all the Awakening companions, Oghren would probably make the most narrative sense. He’s a companion in the main campaign of Origins, too, so there’s a chance the player might be more attached to him. (Personally, leaving him in the Fade would be an easy choice for me haha) That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling. Oh that choice would have destroyed me. It's the same reason I never have alistar as the warden in any of my world states.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 24, 2021 22:31:43 GMT
I suppose that of all the Awakening companions, Oghren would probably make the most narrative sense. He’s a companion in the main campaign of Origins, too, so there’s a chance the player might be more attached to him. (Personally, leaving him in the Fade would be an easy choice for me haha) That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling. Oh that choice would have destroyed me. It's the same reason I never have alistar as the warden in any of my world states. Yeah I've had bo thAlistair and Loghain each at least once I think just t osee what having them was like but most of my playthrough's hav been Stroud. I know my last one was Stroud. I think the one I have on the go will be too but then the one I'm playing is a randomised one where the Keep picked the world state so not 100% sure
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 25, 2021 8:32:56 GMT
The HoF didn’t appear in DAI because giving them a voice is just asking for trouble. For about half of development they tried to have the HoF be the Warden across from Hawke in that DAI plot, but it was just too weird. I'm glad he finally admitted this. To me it was patently obvious, after what Leliana said at the end of DA2, that originally they had probably intended bringing back the Hero as well as Hawke and make us choose between them. That would have been brutal but story wise it made sense. It should have been the Hero as Warden Commander of Ferelden who had fallen foul of the Warden Commander of Orlais and had to go on the run Of course, having finally acknowledged the pitfalls, it wasn't possible to change the entire narrative at that point but just who took part in it. Then come up with some explanation for why it wasn't the Hero. I was never entirely satisfied with the rather vague "went looking for a cure in the west" excuse for their absence but it was understandable if it was a decision made at the 11th hour.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Nov 25, 2021 8:43:10 GMT
I've always thought this, as didn't during early promotion material we see 'Bat Warden' or something, even with early reviewers claiming that this was the same race & gender as their HoF, or am I mis-remembering?
Tbh I'm glad they changed it, as much as I love HoF (my fave protag of the series) bringing them back would just be a nightmare.
Just my thoughts on this
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 25, 2021 8:51:30 GMT
That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling. Well in game it is implied that all the Ferelden Wardens were affected by the false Calling and went off to join up with Clarel (see the diary on the Storm Coast). However, one of my chief complaints about Leliana sending us to find Warden Blackwell to discover what has happened to the Wardens in Ferelden is that it totally ignored the DAA plot, with their HQ now being Vigil's Keep, so wouldn't that be the most obvious place to go for news? Since not everyone in Vigil's Keep was a Warden, there should have been at least some personnel who could explain why or at least confirm the Wardens had left. Let's face it though, the number of Wardens in Ferelden would have been small even if the Commander had been doing their best to recruit them in the intervening years since DAA. As for other countries, what we are told is somewhat contradictory. Near the end Morrigan tells us there is no limit to Corypheus' range when it comes to controlling the Wardens, although if we choose to recruit them into the Inquisition, those Wardens remain unaffected by him, despite the dire warning that they would be when making that decision. Stroud's usual territory was the Freemarches and yet he could hear the Calling. Presumably he then headed south to Ferelden in order to see if it was the same there and that is when he started being hunted by the Wardens under command of Clarel. She had sought permission of Teagan to enter Ferelden (also rather odd in the light of DAA) and then seems to have assumed command there as well, presumably owing to the fact that their own Warden Commander, the Hero, had gone off on their own quest. (I assume if they are dead then the Orlesian stand-in would automatically be subordinate to Clarel or did they go off looking for a cure too?) Then in Last Flight, not only is it said to only be the Orlesian Wardens who are affected but even Vigil's Keep is meant to be running normally as HQ receives messages from there. Anyway, since the epilogue to DAI suggests a split between the southern Wardens and the HQ in the north, I suppose broadly speaking we can assume that the southern Wardens affected by Corypheus comprise those from Orlais, Ferelden and the southern Freemarches.
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Post by Zemgus on Nov 27, 2021 4:35:11 GMT
That said, I have no idea why he’d be in Orlais. We never see any of the Fereldan Wardens in DAI, do we? Come to think of it, I don’t believe we’re ever told what happens with the Wardens of other countries during Corypheus’s false calling. Well in game it is implied that all the Ferelden Wardens were affected by the false Calling and went off to join up with Clarel (see the diary on the Storm Coast). However, one of my chief complaints about Leliana sending us to find Warden Blackwell to discover what has happened to the Wardens in Ferelden is that it totally ignored the DAA plot, with their HQ now being Vigil's Keep, so wouldn't that be the most obvious place to go for news? Since not everyone in Vigil's Keep was a Warden, there should have been at least some personnel who could explain why or at least confirm the Wardens had left. Let's face it though, the number of Wardens in Ferelden would have been small even if the Commander had been doing their best to recruit them in the intervening years since DAA. The Wardens had already left the Vigil and Leliana probably already had sent one of her spies there to interrogate the personnel left behind.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 27, 2021 13:25:35 GMT
Oh that choice would have destroyed me. It's the same reason I never have alistar as the warden in any of my world states. Yeah I've had bo thAlistair and Loghain each at least once I think just t osee what having them was like but most of my playthrough's hav been Stroud. I know my last one was Stroud. I think the one I have on the go will be too but then the one I'm playing is a randomised one where the Keep picked the world state so not 100% sure I did that with loghain as well but he betrayed his king and killed duncan and then tried to kill me repeatedly in DAO so letting him die wasn't hard. Letting Alistar or oghren die though would have been much harder. I have never sacrificed hawk in probably a dozen playthroughs. I don't think I could do it and seeing "varric tears" would do me in.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 27, 2021 14:01:20 GMT
I have never sacrificed hawk in probably a dozen playthroughs. I don't think I could do it and seeing "varric tears" would do me in. I did it just once to see what would happen but seeing Varric so heartbroken, have to hug him and then have him say that he would now have to write to Fenris, I thought: "Nope, no way." I reloaded and went with my normal response. To be honest, even if it was Alistair instead of Stroud, he was still the Warden rather than an ordinary civilian and, let's face it, he didn't really want to step up and take leadership of the Wardens in DAO, so why would he be any better at it now? Then instead of staying to rebuild the Wardens in the south, which was said to be the main reason for sparing them, they head off north, essentially leaving the southern Wardens leaderless. Plus any of the Wardens, but particularly Stroud, must be near their real Calling, whilst Hawke is still relatively young with lots more to give to the world, so why waste that potential? The idea that Hawke should feel responsible for Corypheus was daft too. He had been a Warden problem for the best part of a 1000 years and the Hawke family only got involved because they blackmailed Malcolm into doing their dirty work. Besides which, if Hawke wanted revenge on Corypheus, then they needed to stay alive and help us outside the Fade. Fighting the Nightmare demon was only to allow our escape and we had already broken the false Calling. Then Hawke felt obliged to head off the Weisshauppt to inform the First Warden instead of staying to deal with Corypheus. Odd considering he was still a threat and Leliana or Josephine could have let the First Warden know what happened. Why exactly would the First Warden pay attention to Hawke more than a representative of the Inquisition?
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 27, 2021 14:06:19 GMT
The Wardens had already left the Vigil and Leliana probably already had sent one of her spies there to interrogate the personnel left behind. They couldn't think to put that into the dialogue, just to acknowledge the events of DAA? That's all I asked for; some sort of reference to the fact that DAA even happened. As I say above, I assume now that it was because it was an 11th hour decision to drop the Hero and in trying to save the situation, PW overlooked making any references to Vigil's Keep. By contrast, every codex, reference to the Ferelden Wardens and even Teagan's monologue in Trespasser would make you think that DAA never happened.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 27, 2021 17:48:54 GMT
I have never sacrificed hawk in probably a dozen playthroughs. I don't think I could do it and seeing "varric tears" would do me in. I did it just once to see what would happen but seeing Varric so heartbroken, have to hug him and then have him say that he would now have to write to Fenris, I thought: "Nope, no way." I reloaded and went with my normal response. To be honest, even if it was Alistair instead of Stroud, he was still the Warden rather than an ordinary civilian and, let's face it, he didn't really want to step up and take leadership of the Wardens in DAO, so why would he be any better at it now? Then instead of staying to rebuild the Wardens in the south, which was said to be the main reason for sparing them, they head off north, essentially leaving the southern Wardens leaderless. Plus any of the Wardens, but particularly Stroud, must be near their real Calling, whilst Hawke is still relatively young with lots more to give to the world, so why waste that potential? The idea that Hawke should feel responsible for Corypheus was daft too. He had been a Warden problem for the best part of a 1000 years and the Hawke family only got involved because they blackmailed Malcolm into doing their dirty work. Besides which, if Hawke wanted revenge on Corypheus, then they needed to stay alive and help us outside the Fade. Fighting the Nightmare demon was only to allow our escape and we had already broken the false Calling. Then Hawke felt obliged to head off the Weisshauppt to inform the First Warden instead of staying to deal with Corypheus. Odd considering he was still a threat and Leliana or Josephine could have let the First Warden know what happened. Why exactly would the First Warden pay attention to Hawke more than a representative of the Inquisition? I think it was because Hawk is such a well known figure that they would know who he was. That and they needed to find a reason for him not to stick with the inquisitor as a squadmate and after making him look like he felt guilty about corypheus he couldn't just go "I am gonna go be a pirate with issabela now see you later." Personally I agree that he shouldn't have felt guilty about corypheus since it was the wardens fault for forgetting he existed or something and leaving the tomb unguarded. However logic rarely factors into feeling guilty and since he was involved and "unleashed" corypheus it is understandable that he would feel guilty even though it wasn't his fault or his fathers. Especially since he would already be feeling kinda guilty over the whole mage/templar war even though it wasn't hawk's fault.
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December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 27, 2021 23:13:07 GMT
Yeah I've had bo thAlistair and Loghain each at least once I think just t osee what having them was like but most of my playthrough's hav been Stroud. I know my last one was Stroud. I think the one I have on the go will be too but then the one I'm playing is a randomised one where the Keep picked the world state so not 100% sure I did that with loghain as well but he betrayed his king and killed duncan and then tried to kill me repeatedly in DAO so letting him die wasn't hard. Letting Alistar or oghren die though would have been much harder. I have never sacrificed hawk in probably a dozen playthroughs. I don't think I could do it and seeing "varric tears" would do me in. Yeah I think I sacrificed Hawke for the Alistair one because tha tHawke wasn't in a relatoinship whereas I believe that Alistair was playing smoochies with the HOF in that playthrough. Generally it's usually Stroud that does the Warden section and he pretty much always dies at the end of it. But then in that playthrough he wasn't king and because I think my HOF was an elf in tha tplaythrough I couldn' t be queen either so worked around it by letting Anora keep the throne and kept Alistair in the wardens. Hence the reason why Alistair was doing tha twarden section in that playthrough.
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
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26,661
gervaise21
10,775
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 28, 2021 9:46:13 GMT
Especially since he would already be feeling kinda guilty over the whole mage/templar war even though it wasn't hawk's fault. At least you could make an argument for Hawke feeling in some way responsible. After all, it was claimed at the end of DA2 that Hawke's name was a rallying cry by either side depending on who Hawke had supported in the final battle. Of course, we don't know how things would have panned out in the Exalted March DLC and by the time of DAI we had had Asunder in the interim to shift responsibility away from Hawke. Strangely enough, in the book, the Champion of Kirkwall was barely mentioned in connection with the increasing unrest in the Circles and then not at all in DAI, with a variety of different reasons being cited by Cassandra for why Varric had been brought over to see the Divine. Still, this does finally put to bed the idea that Hawke was originally meant to be the Inquisitor but was dropped after DA2's bad reception. As I had always maintained, any suggestion that Hawke had been wanted to lead the Inquisition made in DAI was clearly not what the writers had intended for the game but purely narrative flavour with no real substance. The only idea that was ever dropped concerning Hawke was the Exalted March DLC but I believe even the decision for that was made before DA2 actually came out and the whole game was rushed because management was pushing for the team to concentrate on DAI.
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