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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 11, 2022 21:18:07 GMT
I said mostly 2, Lazerus is the big exception in 2, and was unfortunately the beginning of the trend for Bioware of "Who cares if something makes sense, it's cool or emotional so just do it" There's also the Mako in 1. How Shep and Co didn't get turned into paste as they bounced from relay to relay towards the Citadel is one major pothole. The Mako is very much based in science sir. Such vehicles are very possible according to leading theoretical physicists. As for the Relays I'm not sure what your complaint is exactly, why would people be turned into paste? The Mass Effect, the actual thing, that the Relay's use, is why they can travel FTL like that. FTL itself is impossible, so in order to have sci fi as a genre, you have to cheat to achieve it, That's fine, and an acceptable thing to do. something basic like that is not a plothole, because that's an impossibility that is required for the genre as a whole to even exist, unless you want everyone to spend like a hundred years in cryo sleep between missions, so everyone you ever knew or cared about is long dead by the time you get to Noveria, for example.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 11, 2022 21:25:25 GMT
There's also the Mako in 1. How Shep and Co didn't get turned into paste as they bounced from relay to relay towards the Citadel is one major pothole. The Mako is very much based in science sir. Such vehicles are very possible according to leading theoretical physicists. As for the Relays I'm not sure what your complaint is exactly, why would people be turned into paste? The Mass Effect, the actual thing, that the Relay's use, is why they can travel FTL like that. FTL itself is impossible, so in order to have sci fi as a genre, you have to cheat to achieve it, That's fine, and an acceptable thing to do. something basic like that is not a plothole, because that's an impossibility that is required for the genre as a whole to even exist, unless you want everyone to spend like a hundred years in cryo sleep between missions, so everyone you ever knew or cared about is long dead by the time you get to Noveria, for example. Well, last time I checked Makos are not starships, so they wouldn't have the same tech that ships like the Normandy has that protects the crew from the g forces of traveling from Mass Relays. Or did Bio make some shit up stating that everything somehow has starship grade drivecores slapped into everything?
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 11, 2022 22:24:44 GMT
Maybe they were trying for hard sci-fi in some areas, but even in Mass Effect 1 they jumped away from that at parts. Anything dealing with Reapers themselves never felt like hard sci-fi, just magic handwaving with "you cannot comprehend how powerful they really are". Maybe that is what made ME1 feel more hard sci-fi then the other entries because there was just less of the Reaper garbage.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 11, 2022 22:28:53 GMT
Maybe they were trying for hard sci-fi in some areas, but even in Mass Effect 1 they jumped away from that at parts. Anything dealing with Reapers themselves never felt like hard sci-fi, just magic handwaving with "you cannot comprehend how powerful they really are". Maybe that is what made ME1 feel more hard sci-fi then the other entries because there was just less of the Reaper garbage. Whatever they tried to do they failed at it. It would have been better if Bio never went with the Reaper plot and just kept it simple.
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Post by Phantom on Feb 11, 2022 22:40:31 GMT
Reapers are supposed to be Lovecraftian creatures in short, Eldritch abomination. Lets face it, Eldritch Abomination can't be explained properly. They just exist.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 11, 2022 22:49:25 GMT
Reapers are supposed to be Lovecraftian creatures in short, Eldritch abomination. Lets face it, Eldritch Abomination can't be explained properly. They just exist. Which is fair, but then that means its not hard sci-fi, its fantasy. At least that is my take.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 11, 2022 22:50:29 GMT
Reapers are supposed to be Lovecraftian creatures in short, Eldritch abomination. Lets face it, Eldritch Abomination can't be explained properly. They just exist. But when Bio tried to explain their origins, they fell short.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 11, 2022 23:10:38 GMT
Maybe they were trying for hard sci-fi in some areas, but even in Mass Effect 1 they jumped away from that at parts. Anything dealing with Reapers themselves never felt like hard sci-fi, just magic handwaving with "you cannot comprehend how powerful they really are". Maybe that is what made ME1 feel more hard sci-fi then the other entries because there was just less of the Reaper garbage. Whatever they tried to do they failed at it. It would have been better if Bio never went with the Reaper plot and just kept it simple. Yeah, the Reapers always felt like an idea without any thought behind how they were going to pay off when there was a conclusion. Which wasn't helped with Mass Effect 2 where they were pretty much ignored so Mass Effect 3 had to do the majority of work towards The Reapers.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 0:04:20 GMT
Whatever they tried to do they failed at it. It would have been better if Bio never went with the Reaper plot and just kept it simple. Yeah, the Reapers always felt like an idea without any thought behind how they were going to pay off when there was a conclusion. Which wasn't helped with Mass Effect 2 where they were pretty much ignored so Mass Effect 3 had to do the majority of work towards The Reapers. Which fell flat on its face. The Reaper plot could be considered a cautionary tale of how not to write an overpowered antagonist.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Feb 12, 2022 1:20:58 GMT
Which fell flat on its face. The Reaper plot could be considered a cautionary tale of how not to write an overpowered antagonist. They did it right in ME1 but fell down badly after that.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 1:39:35 GMT
Which fell flat on its face. The Reaper plot could be considered a cautionary tale of how not to write an overpowered antagonist. They did it right in ME1 but fell down badly after that. What they did do in ME1 was done right, but I believe they needed to do more across the first two games because they were trying to make them so powerful and intimidating that it needed the benefit of time.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 12, 2022 6:15:50 GMT
The Mako is very much based in science sir. Such vehicles are very possible according to leading theoretical physicists. As for the Relays I'm not sure what your complaint is exactly, why would people be turned into paste? The Mass Effect, the actual thing, that the Relay's use, is why they can travel FTL like that. FTL itself is impossible, so in order to have sci fi as a genre, you have to cheat to achieve it, That's fine, and an acceptable thing to do. something basic like that is not a plothole, because that's an impossibility that is required for the genre as a whole to even exist, unless you want everyone to spend like a hundred years in cryo sleep between missions, so everyone you ever knew or cared about is long dead by the time you get to Noveria, for example. Well, last time I checked Makos are not starships, so they wouldn't have the same tech that ships like the Normandy has that protects the crew from the g forces of traveling from Mass Relays. Or did Bio make some shit up stating that everything somehow has starship grade drivecores slapped into everything? This is just confused. If you're in the mass relay corridor, there aren't any g-forces of consequence. Your mass is so low that you can't be hurt.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 8:30:14 GMT
Well, last time I checked Makos are not starships, so they wouldn't have the same tech that ships like the Normandy has that protects the crew from the g forces of traveling from Mass Relays. Or did Bio make some shit up stating that everything somehow has starship grade drivecores slapped into everything? This is just confused. If you're in the mass relay corridor, there aren't any g-forces of consequence. Your mass is so low that you can't be hurt. Then provide a ME wiki link on that subject.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 12, 2022 9:16:49 GMT
The Mako is very much based in science sir. Such vehicles are very possible according to leading theoretical physicists. As for the Relays I'm not sure what your complaint is exactly, why would people be turned into paste? The Mass Effect, the actual thing, that the Relay's use, is why they can travel FTL like that. FTL itself is impossible, so in order to have sci fi as a genre, you have to cheat to achieve it, That's fine, and an acceptable thing to do. something basic like that is not a plothole, because that's an impossibility that is required for the genre as a whole to even exist, unless you want everyone to spend like a hundred years in cryo sleep between missions, so everyone you ever knew or cared about is long dead by the time you get to Noveria, for example. Well, last time I checked Makos are not starships, so they wouldn't have the same tech that ships like the Normandy has that protects the crew from the g forces of traveling from Mass Relays. Or did Bio make some shit up stating that everything somehow has starship grade drivecores slapped into everything? OH! I see, you are referring to the Mako driving through the Conduit. Well again, the Mako is equipped with a Small Eezo Core, which enables it to utilize The Mass Effect to alter its mass. That is following the settings internal rules, and is not an issue.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 12, 2022 9:23:13 GMT
Reapers are supposed to be Lovecraftian creatures in short, Eldritch abomination. Lets face it, Eldritch Abomination can't be explained properly. They just exist. Which is fair, but then that means its not hard sci-fi, its fantasy. At least that is my take. No one said ME was Hard Sci fi. It was always Space Opera, but it was Space Opera that ranked at 4 on the Mohs Hardness Scale based upon the setting Bioware created, which is decently high up when compared to several large franchises. By the end of ME3 the series was a rank 1, just total gibbering technobabble.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 11:33:37 GMT
Well, last time I checked Makos are not starships, so they wouldn't have the same tech that ships like the Normandy has that protects the crew from the g forces of traveling from Mass Relays. Or did Bio make some shit up stating that everything somehow has starship grade drivecores slapped into everything? OH! I see, you are referring to the Mako driving through the Conduit. Well again, the Mako is equipped with a Small Eezo Core, which enables it to utilize The Mass Effect to alter its mass. That is following the settings internal rules, and is not an issue. But wouldn't that overload it's drive core, seeing as it's not a ship grade drive core? Also, didn't the arms of the Citadel close up before the Mako arrived? If it did then that's a plot hole.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 12, 2022 12:50:31 GMT
I disagree, ME1, and 2 in many ways, heavily favored realistic scientific concepts, the mass effect itself, and Eezo, was the one cheat the setting had at the time. THey literally did interviews with real scientists who talked about how tech savy ME was back in the day. This was something they very much cared about in the beginning. Settings needs to remain internally consistent. Just throwing whatever into your universe based on whim, or because your too lazy to properly explain why this exception is possible, is just poor writing at the end of the day. Not to mention it just makes you as a writer look really effing stupid. You can't as a writer, start here - "Ship mobility dominates space combat; the primary objective is to align the mass accelerator along the bow with the opposing vessel's broadside. Battles typically play out as artillery duels fought at ranges measured in thousands of kilometers, though assault through defended mass relays often occur at "knife fight" ranges as close as a few dozen kilometers. Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages. Once a ship enters FTL flight the combat is effectively over; there are no sensors capable of tracking them, or weapons capable of damaging them. The only way to guarantee an enemy will stand and fight is to attack a location they have a vested interest in, such as a settled world or a strategically-important mass relay."and here And end up here and expect people to take your writing seriously. You are literally advocating for bad writing, because fuck it, who cares. It's ridiculous. Following that logic, don't even bother with any narrative at all, just have the whole game be a giant sandbox where you shoot things with progressively more outrageous methods, like Dead Rising in space. 2 didn't, otherwise you wouldn't have that "bring Shepherd back from the dead" BS. Or ditching fully sealed suits for women walking half naked in space because Rule of Cool/Sexy.
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N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 12:58:16 GMT
Which is fair, but then that means its not hard sci-fi, its fantasy. At least that is my take. No one said ME was Hard Sci fi. It was always Space Opera, but it was Space Opera that ranked at 4 on the Mohs Hardness Scale based upon the setting Bioware created, which is decently high up when compared to several large franchises. By the end of ME3 the series was a rank 1, just total gibbering technobabble. To me Mass Effect is a lot like Halo. They found one concept they named their franchise after and spend time researching that idea more then anything else in the game. The further you get from the core concept because you need more ideas it starts to become focused on that one feature that was the shiny object in front of them for the first game. There wasn't a lot of different concepts in Mass Effect 1 introduced for it was a very short game, but to me a lot of what was introduced there was countered by the concept of the Reapers for they are on the level of Talc. As I see it BioWare front loaded the series on one concept they thought was a neat idea and spent time researching that one idea and that one idea alone and that fits within a lot of sci-fi and why a lot of sci-fi at least for me is really good at the start, but once they need to move on it suffers.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 13:15:35 GMT
2 didn't, otherwise you wouldn't have that "bring Shepherd back from the dead" BS. Or ditching fully sealed suits for women walking half naked in space because Rule of Cool/Sexy. Or using rebreathers in space instead of a full on air tight space suit. (Have no problems with the Rule of Sexy per say, I still like some realism in my video games).
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 13:20:43 GMT
Or ditching fully sealed suits for women walking half naked in space because Rule of Cool/Sexy. Or using rebreathers in space instead of a full on air tight space suit. (Have no problems with the Rule of Sexy per say, I still like some realism in my video games). Yeah, I think that is probably one of the areas I have the hardest time with BioWare and Mass Effect is the reduction of the space suits for "iconic" armor. Mind you I wasn't impressed with how they handled the space suits in ME1 where it was just five patterns and four them just repeated over and over again just recolored, but I rather have that then some magic latex suit with exposed skin on an unknown planet.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 13:23:46 GMT
Or using rebreathers in space instead of a full on air tight space suit. (Have no problems with the Rule of Sexy per say, I still like some realism in my video games). Yeah, I think that is probably one of the areas I have the hardest time with BioWare and Mass Effect is the reduction of the space suits for "iconic" armor. Mind you I wasn't impressed with how they handled the space suits in ME1 where it was just five patterns and four them just repeated over and over again just recolored, but I rather have that then some magic latex suit with exposed skin on an unknown planet. Aye, having the same armour repeated over and over again was annoying. Was hoping that LE's ME1 would have updated them to look more original looking.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 12, 2022 13:51:47 GMT
My biggest issue is with the protheans in ME1. How did they know the reapers use a signal to open the Citadel? And how did the protheans know how to alter the signal? It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos to ask those questions to Vigil. Even ask how it was able to know if someone is indoctrinated.
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N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 14:22:50 GMT
My biggest issue is with the protheans in ME1. How did they know the reapers use a signal to open the Citadel? And how did the protheans know how to alter the signal? It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos to ask those questions to Vigil. Even ask how it was able to know if someone is indoctrinated. I still have a hard time with understanding how Ilos was able to evade The Reapers. I think that is the first step of showing how incompetent they are I guess. For if I was systematically extinguishing all life in a galaxy like The Reapers I wouldn't just trust the records of that species I would have built something into my technology that would track all active relays and see if they were in use so nothing could be hidden.
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Cerberus is Humanity! Join us today and receive a limited edition commemorative pin!
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Post by 10k on Feb 12, 2022 14:32:05 GMT
And mark my words here: Going back to MWG and bringing back Commander Shepard will kill Mass Effect as a video game series faster than anything. This kind of stuff doesn't work for very long and does more harm than good. It makes BioWare look like their begging to their worst "fans" and pandering to these scumbag influencers who have and never will like their games is a bad move and one that never works out anyway.
That's funny. Because if I remember correctly it was Shep and his remastered trilogy that brought back interest for ME, and caused EA to give BW the green light to make another game. All Andromeda did was kill the franchise. You guys hate to admitted it, but Shep IS ME. And until BW can produce a protagonist, story, and setting that is better than Shep and the MW, BW will continue to rest on their laurels because that's all they have. That's why they teased us with the MW and Shep's armor in the new trailer already.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 14:36:00 GMT
And mark my words here: Going back to MWG and bringing back Commander Shepard will kill Mass Effect as a video game series faster than anything. This kind of stuff doesn't work for very long and does more harm than good. It makes BioWare look like their begging to their worst "fans" and pandering to these scumbag influencers who have and never will like their games is a bad move and one that never works out anyway.
That's funny. Because if I remember correctly it was Shep and his remastered trilogy that brought back interest for ME, and caused EA to give BW the green light to make another game. All Andromeda did was kill the franchise. You guys hate to admitted it, but Shep IS ME. And until BW can produce a protagonist, story, and setting that is better than Shep and the MW, BW will continue to rest on their laurels because that's all they have. That's why they teased us with the MW and Shep's armor in the new trailer already. There is more changes between Shepard trilogy and Andromeda. Shepard doesn't have a personality like lets say Nathan Drake for players to attach themselves to. I think the gameplay systems and other changes are more responsible then just the shell for the player avatar.
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