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Post by 10k on Feb 12, 2022 14:50:32 GMT
That's funny. Because if I remember correctly it was Shep and his remastered trilogy that brought back interest for ME, and caused EA to give BW the green light to make another game. All Andromeda did was kill the franchise. You guys hate to admitted it, but Shep IS ME. And until BW can produce a protagonist, story, and setting that is better than Shep and the MW, BW will continue to rest on their laurels because that's all they have. That's why they teased us with the MW and Shep's armor in the new trailer already. There is more changes between Shepard trilogy and Andromeda. Shepard doesn't have a personality like lets say Nathan Drake for players to attach themselves to. I think the gameplay systems and other changes are more responsible then just the shell for the player avatar. You think gameplay systems are more to blame for MEA failure than the protagonist Ryder? Really, gameplay for Andromeda is always the first thing praised about the game. Ryder on the other hand is a big push over, and I never understood why he was the leader instead of Cora. Other than having SAM in his head, he was useless. In your opinion Shep didn't have personality, that's fine, but at least him being a leader was believable.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 15:02:06 GMT
There is more changes between Shepard trilogy and Andromeda. Shepard doesn't have a personality like lets say Nathan Drake for players to attach themselves to. I think the gameplay systems and other changes are more responsible then just the shell for the player avatar. You think gameplay systems are more to blame for MEA failure than the protagonist Ryder? Really, gameplay for Andromeda is always the first thing praised about the game. Ryder on the other hand is a big push over, and I never understood why he was the leader instead of Cora. Other than having SAM in his head, he was useless. In your opinion Shep didn't have personality, that's fine, but at least him being a leader was believable. Yes because what is praised is the combat, very little else. I don't hear people gushing about the story, the companions, the enemies, the crafting, or any of the other systems in the game just the combat.
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Post by 10k on Feb 12, 2022 15:13:37 GMT
You think gameplay systems are more to blame for MEA failure than the protagonist Ryder? Really, gameplay for Andromeda is always the first thing praised about the game. Ryder on the other hand is a big push over, and I never understood why he was the leader instead of Cora. Other than having SAM in his head, he was useless. In your opinion Shep didn't have personality, that's fine, but at least him being a leader was believable. Yes because what is praised is the combat, very little else. I don't hear people gushing about the story, the companions, the enemies, the crafting, or any of the other systems in the game just the combat. Story, companions, and enemies aren't gameplay systems. Writing is usually what flesh out these things. But I agree with you Andromeda writing is bad lol.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 12, 2022 16:09:04 GMT
There is more changes between Shepard trilogy and Andromeda. Shepard doesn't have a personality like lets say Nathan Drake for players to attach themselves to. I think the gameplay systems and other changes are more responsible then just the shell for the player avatar. You think gameplay systems are more to blame for MEA failure than the protagonist Ryder? Really, gameplay for Andromeda is always the first thing praised about the game. Ryder on the other hand is a big push over, and I never understood why he was the leader instead of Cora. Other than having SAM in his head, he was useless. In your opinion Shep didn't have personality, that's fine, but at least him being a leader was believable. If MENext is set in MEA once again, then the bet bet is to have a new protagonist or recon Ryder out of existence with said new protagonist. (Not to mention improving the looks of the Kett...🤢)
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Post by 10k on Feb 12, 2022 16:14:11 GMT
You think gameplay systems are more to blame for MEA failure than the protagonist Ryder? Really, gameplay for Andromeda is always the first thing praised about the game. Ryder on the other hand is a big push over, and I never understood why he was the leader instead of Cora. Other than having SAM in his head, he was useless. In your opinion Shep didn't have personality, that's fine, but at least him being a leader was believable. If MENext is set in MEA once again, then the bet bet is to have a new protagonist or recon Ryder out of existence with said new protagonist. (Not to mention improving the looks of the Kett...🤢) I agree. I'm not against a new protagonist at all. But if they're anything like Ryder, then no. Ryder was just awful. I personally wish we could have played Cora.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2022 16:16:26 GMT
Yes because what is praised is the combat, very little else. I don't hear people gushing about the story, the companions, the enemies, the crafting, or any of the other systems in the game just the combat. Story, companions, and enemies aren't gameplay systems. Writing is usually what flesh out these things. But I agree with you Andromeda writing is bad lol. Its more then just the fighting too. I think the combat is the only redeeming thing of Andromeda... well I like Drak too. I just think there were too many things wrong just to point to Ryder being the sole problem with the game. Especially after my experiences with Omega DLC in ME3 to me demonstrates that BioWare Montreal had a lot more problems then just not having Shepard since they made something that is to me is only beaten by Pinnacle Station as the world DLC in the Shepard Trilogy. With Shepard its not that I don't want the character to return, but all the other things around the character that would return that I don't want to see. I don't want to see a new enemy that is tougher then The Reapers because Shepard defeated The Reapers and not to mention things like Schrodinger's Companion which damaged a lot of the companions in ME3.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 12, 2022 20:05:37 GMT
My biggest issue is with the protheans in ME1. How did they know the reapers use a signal to open the Citadel? And how did the protheans know how to alter the signal? It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos to ask those questions to Vigil. Even ask how it was able to know if someone is indoctrinated. I tma yhav esomething t od owi thhow Prtotheans can read people and the phremones and suc hthe ygiv eoff Javik did also asy the yincforporated this a lot into their tech at the time durinmg the Prothean cycle I've always jus tassumed aftre playing ME3 that it was just that.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 12, 2022 22:12:52 GMT
My biggest issue is with the protheans in ME1. How did they know the reapers use a signal to open the Citadel? And how did the protheans know how to alter the signal? It's too bad Shepard didn't go back to Ilos to ask those questions to Vigil. Even ask how it was able to know if someone is indoctrinated. I tma yhav esomething t od owi thhow Prtotheans can read people and the phremones and suc hthe ygiv eoff Javik did also asy the yincforporated this a lot into their tech at the time durinmg the Prothean cycle I've always jus tassumed aftre playing ME3 that it was just that. Did they get lucky by touching the magic spot on the Citadel letting them about the signal? The Citadel is huge. In ME3, Javik touches the floor in the room telling him about Grunt/Miranda. Can that touch tell everything about whatever no matter how large the object? If so, wouldn't the scientists have known about other stuff the reapers do on the Citadel? On the Citadel, Shepard sees bodies as he/she moves forward. Would the touch of prothean reveal the reapers use the Citadel to build a reaper? And would the touch of prothean reveal thing hiding on the Citadel watching over it's toy's?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 12, 2022 22:25:53 GMT
I tma yhav esomething t od owi thhow Prtotheans can read people and the phremones and suc hthe ygiv eoff Javik did also asy the yincforporated this a lot into their tech at the time durinmg the Prothean cycle I've always jus tassumed aftre playing ME3 that it was just that. Did they get lucky by touching the magic spot on the Citadel letting them about the signal? The Citadel is huge. In ME3, Javik touches the floor in the room telling him about Grunt/Miranda. Can that touch tell everything about whatever no matter how large the object? If so, wouldn't the scientists have known about other stuff the reapers do on the Citadel? On the Citadel, Shepard sees bodies as he/she moves forward. Would the touch of prothean reveal the reapers use the Citadel to build a reaper? And would the touch of prothean reveal thing hiding on the Citadel watching over it's toy's? It may no thave given them all the information but I' dbe surprised if they didn't get some It's likely a Prothean for example touched a keepe rfor example and managed t ored it's physiology and how i tworked and ther froer used tha tfor example t ocome up wit ha way to disrupt the signasl the Reapers use t obegin the invasion. Which was why Sovereign had to atempt to do it manually. It does look like t om ethat those things on the backs of Keepers look like radio boxes which I assume they use for communication with each other and the Reapers after all.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 12, 2022 22:40:08 GMT
Did they get lucky by touching the magic spot on the Citadel letting them about the signal? The Citadel is huge. In ME3, Javik touches the floor in the room telling him about Grunt/Miranda. Can that touch tell everything about whatever no matter how large the object? If so, wouldn't the scientists have known about other stuff the reapers do on the Citadel? On the Citadel, Shepard sees bodies as he/she moves forward. Would the touch of prothean reveal the reapers use the Citadel to build a reaper? And would the touch of prothean reveal thing hiding on the Citadel watching over it's toy's? It may no thave given them all the information but I' dbe surprised if they didn't get some It's likely a Prothean for example touched a keepe rfor example and managed t ored it's physiology and how i tworked and ther froer used tha tfor example t ocome up wit ha way to disrupt the signasl the Reapers use t obegin the invasion. Which was why Sovereign had to atempt to do it manually. It does look like t om ethat those things on the backs of Keepers look like radio boxes which I assume they use for communication with each other and the Reapers after all. It's possible, but the keepers also knew about processing bodies to be harvested. The player sees that one on the Citadel after going up the beam.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 13, 2022 0:23:25 GMT
Or using rebreathers in space instead of a full on air tight space suit. (Have no problems with the Rule of Sexy per say, I still like some realism in my video games). Yeah, I think that is probably one of the areas I have the hardest time with BioWare and Mass Effect is the reduction of the space suits for "iconic" armor. Mind you I wasn't impressed with how they handled the space suits in ME1 where it was just five patterns and four them just repeated over and over again just recolored, but I rather have that then some magic latex suit with exposed skin on an unknown planet. This I do agree with. Bioware's fixation on "Iconic" looks that cannot be altered. What's amusing is how relatively easy the middle ground is to achieve. THeir so close it's hilarious. Just give everyone SEALED ARMOR when deployed on Missions. Period. Unless you're implying our companions are so stupid they're more worried about looking stylish for the people shooting at them. Then ofc, here's a really novel idea. GIVE US BACK THE EFFING HELMET TOGGLE FROM ME1. WHY is the armor and helmet one piece!?! It makes no sense man! ME1's Armor situation was reasonable and acceptable, it's only flaw was it was bland and boring to look at. What's really crazy about this, is Dragon Age Inquisition still maintained "Iconic" looks while letting us make them still have realistic gear for them, Like Cassandra wearing a plate helmet for example. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it was light years ahead of what ME is doing in terms of companion gear. Honestly, Bioware, I know you guys lurk here. Just do the ME1 armor setup, with toggleable helmets for each companion armor set, and Rebreathers that they attach or detach from their combat helmets depending on environment, because guess what Bioware. You can still show your companions faces AND let them wear helmets. YOU CAN DO BOTH GUYS! YOU DID IT BEFORE! I shouldn't have to turn off the helmets in order for them to not walk around in Zero Atmo equipment!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 13, 2022 0:33:38 GMT
With the iconic look discussion, it's not like they couldn't do that while following their lore needing fully sealed suits. Franchises like Halo and Star Wars have proven beyond doubt that you can have people be in armor yet still fully capture their personality. Then when on the ship, sure wear whatever they want.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 13, 2022 0:36:15 GMT
And mark my words here: Going back to MWG and bringing back Commander Shepard will kill Mass Effect as a video game series faster than anything. This kind of stuff doesn't work for very long and does more harm than good. It makes BioWare look like their begging to their worst "fans" and pandering to these scumbag influencers who have and never will like their games is a bad move and one that never works out anyway.
That's funny. Because if I remember correctly it was Shep and his remastered trilogy that brought back interest for ME, and caused EA to give BW the green light to make another game. All Andromeda did was kill the franchise. You guys hate to admitted it, but Shep IS ME. And until BW can produce a protagonist, story, and setting that is better than Shep and the MW, BW will continue to rest on their laurels because that's all they have. That's why they teased us with the MW and Shep's armor in the new trailer already. They were already working on the next new game before MELE was released, so you're wrong.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Feb 13, 2022 7:36:09 GMT
Hard to say. I was angry the way the singleplayer was abandoned back in 2017 after all the patching was done. Even DA2 had DLC support. The game left too many loose ends and unanswered questions. I am not talking about sequel bait either. That's kind of why I'm in 2 minds about the next game. Why should I invest in the next ME if they can't finish the story they started to tell? I get it that MEA wasn' t that well recieved but it's important to finish what you start imo. At least for those that did like it. “Even DA2 had DLC support” “can’t finish the story they started to tell” These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 7:44:02 GMT
That's kind of why I'm in 2 minds about the next game. Why should I invest in the next ME if they can't finish the story they started to tell? I get it that MEA wasn' t that well recieved but it's important to finish what you start imo. At least for those that did like it. “Even DA2 had DLC support” “can’t finish the story they started to tell” These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train. And from the looks of it, DA4 is following that trend.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Feb 13, 2022 7:47:12 GMT
“Even DA2 had DLC support” “can’t finish the story they started to tell” These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train. And from the looks of it, DA4 is following that trend. I’m very worried about DA4. I think every DA installment has been excellent, and of course it’s being made by real BioWare, but the project leads keep quitting and that is concerning.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 7:49:18 GMT
And from the looks of it, DA4 is following that trend. I’m very worried about DA4. I think every DA installment has been excellent, and of course it’s being made by real BioWare, but the project leads keep quitting and that is concerning. Makes me wonder if Bio can survive another failure. Cause I don't think that EA will give them another chance.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 13, 2022 11:46:23 GMT
That's kind of why I'm in 2 minds about the next game. Why should I invest in the next ME if they can't finish the story they started to tell? I get it that MEA wasn' t that well recieved but it's important to finish what you start imo. At least for those that did like it. “Even DA2 had DLC support” “can’t finish the story they started to tell” These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train. As far as I know thast studio was working under the Biowae rbannre at that time it on;ly changed after MEA released. So as far as I'm concrened it'sstill Bioware's respobnsibility.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 13:23:05 GMT
And from the looks of it, DA4 is following that trend. I’m very worried about DA4. I think every DA installment has been excellent, and of course it’s being made by real BioWare, but the project leads keep quitting and that is concerning. How exactly is BioWare to change if they keep allowing people to make the same mistakes over and over again? If people are unwilling or unable to change what they are doing and keep making the same mistakes that made the previous game bad why should it be a concern that they are leaving? Management is being held accountable for their choices so to me this is the first step to try and fix the direction BioWare is going in because they are trying to make some kind of change even if it requires people to leave.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 13:26:47 GMT
I’m very worried about DA4. I think every DA installment has been excellent, and of course it’s being made by real BioWare, but the project leads keep quitting and that is concerning. Makes me wonder if Bio can survive another failure. Cause I don't think that EA will give them another chance. If BioWare disappears it won't be because the game is bad or not, but due to EA not seeing a future in the style of BioWare makes at the budget level they are at for they could have a game that people around here consider the best thing in decades, but if it doesn't sell its a failure. I don't think Inquisition or even Andromeda were to the point where EA was really concerned simply because it took Anthem to really have major changes implemented at the studio. If EA was concerned they aren't going to waste millions of dollars of investors money for they would be violating their fiduciary responsibility to them while hoping something might change.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 13:49:10 GMT
Makes me wonder if Bio can survive another failure. Cause I don't think that EA will give them another chance. If BioWare disappears it won't be because the game is bad or not, but due to EA not seeing a future in the style of BioWare makes at the budget level they are at for they could have a game that people around here consider the best thing in decades, but if it doesn't sell its a failure. I don't think Inquisition or even Andromeda were to the point where EA was really concerned simply because it took Anthem to really have major changes implemented at the studio. If EA was concerned they aren't going to waste millions of dollars of investors money for they would be violating their fiduciary responsibility to them while hoping something might change. We shall see come DA4. If it flops harder then Bio's last two failures then Bio's fans should start to worry about Bio's future.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 14:27:23 GMT
If BioWare disappears it won't be because the game is bad or not, but due to EA not seeing a future in the style of BioWare makes at the budget level they are at for they could have a game that people around here consider the best thing in decades, but if it doesn't sell its a failure. I don't think Inquisition or even Andromeda were to the point where EA was really concerned simply because it took Anthem to really have major changes implemented at the studio. If EA was concerned they aren't going to waste millions of dollars of investors money for they would be violating their fiduciary responsibility to them while hoping something might change. We shall see come DA4. If it flops harder then Bio's last two failures then Bio's fans should start to worry about Bio's future. I dislike the term flop because nobody really knows the sales numbers and just makes assumptions based on their own theories. For all we know Andromeda did better then EA expected after they might have given up on the game during development due to the lack of promotions after people left the game.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2022 14:32:59 GMT
There does seem to be a persistent trend of devs only ever failing upwards. More so with ME’s team than DA’s.
Hopefully BioWare hiring more new developers and people to their teams can help to genuinely change things, but if it’s a culture thing that is rooted deeper than realised I don’t know if things could ever swing back round again. Previous devs quitting, rejoining, then quitting again certainly seem to point to this.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 13, 2022 15:25:37 GMT
And mark my words here: Going back to MWG and bringing back Commander Shepard will kill Mass Effect as a video game series faster than anything. This kind of stuff doesn't work for very long and does more harm than good. It makes BioWare look like their begging to their worst "fans" and pandering to these scumbag influencers who have and never will like their games is a bad move and one that never works out anyway.
That's funny. Because if I remember correctly it was Shep and his remastered trilogy that brought back interest for ME, and caused EA to give BW the green light to make another game. All Andromeda did was kill the franchise. You guys hate to admitted it, but Shep IS ME. And until BW can produce a protagonist, story, and setting that is better than Shep and the MW, BW will continue to rest on their laurels because that's all they have. That's why they teased us with the MW and Shep's armor in the new trailer already. Admit what exactly?
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Fortifying everything.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 15:35:22 GMT
We shall see come DA4. If it flops harder then Bio's last two failures then Bio's fans should start to worry about Bio's future. I dislike the term flop because nobody really knows the sales numbers and just makes assumptions based on their own theories. For all we know Andromeda did better then EA expected after they might have given up on the game during development due to the lack of promotions after people left the game. They kind of did when Bio abandoned MEA and put the whole franchise on ice until LE came out and MENext was announced.
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