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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 13, 2022 15:38:30 GMT
That's kind of why I'm in 2 minds about the next game. Why should I invest in the next ME if they can't finish the story they started to tell? I get it that MEA wasn' t that well recieved but it's important to finish what you start imo. At least for those that did like it. “Even DA2 had DLC support”
“can’t finish the story they started to tell”These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train. Everyone here realizes Dragon Age 2 didn't get finished either, right? The Exalted March was cancelled, and it's whole narrative neutered and squished into being a footnote in Act 1 of Inquisition. Bioware decided to Prioritize their stupid, pointless Felicia Day DLC, the Mark of Felicia Day instead because they wanted to fanboy over a massively overrated actress.
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Post by trinity0 on Feb 13, 2022 15:47:39 GMT
As far as in know DA2 should have been a DLC for DAO. But with the big Success of DAO, EA forced Bioware to make a full game out of the DLC.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 18:15:30 GMT
I dislike the term flop because nobody really knows the sales numbers and just makes assumptions based on their own theories. For all we know Andromeda did better then EA expected after they might have given up on the game during development due to the lack of promotions after people left the game. They kind of did when Bio abandoned MEA and put the whole franchise on ice until LE came out and MENext was announced. Was it really on ice though? It hasn't missed as step and way back in 2018 Casey Hudson still said they were working on new Dragon Age and Mass Effect content. They did Inquisition > Andromeda > Anthem > Dragon Age 4? > Mass Effect Next. For me there was never any real evidence aside from a report based on unnamed sources that said it was. LinkWhile BioWare abandoned Andromeda it doesn't mean the franchise was the reason for that to happen.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 13, 2022 18:16:41 GMT
As far as in know DA2 should have been a DLC for DAO. But with the big Success of DAO, EA forced Bioware to make a full game out of the DLC. You are incorrect. Origins was made to be a one off game, with no sequels ever in mind. That's why the game has a proper ending with satisfying epilogue that is now constantly being ignored or contradicted. The game made boatloads of money, so EA asked for a sequel, that Bioware never had any plans for, and was only given 18 months to make it.
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N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 18:17:18 GMT
As far as in know DA2 should have been a DLC for DAO. But with the big Success of DAO, EA forced Bioware to make a full game out of the DLC. It was to be a full game to fill a hole in EA's schedule. Now I could be remembering wrong, but I think I heard that from Mark Darrah's YouTube channel. It was just only given a very small development window. DA:O had its full set of DLC.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 18:23:38 GMT
They kind of did when Bio abandoned MEA and put the whole franchise on ice until LE came out and MENext was announced. Was it really on ice though? It hasn't missed as step and way back in 2018 Casey Hudson still said they were working on new Dragon Age and Mass Effect content. They did Inquisition > Andromeda > Anthem > Dragon Age 4? > Mass Effect Next. For me there was never any real evidence aside from a report based on unnamed sources that said it was. LinkWhile BioWare abandoned Andromeda it doesn't mean the franchise was the reason for that to happen. Everything that Hudson says shouldn't be taken at face value (after all, he was one of the few people who lied regarding ME3).
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N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 20:05:04 GMT
Was it really on ice though? It hasn't missed as step and way back in 2018 Casey Hudson still said they were working on new Dragon Age and Mass Effect content. They did Inquisition > Andromeda > Anthem > Dragon Age 4? > Mass Effect Next. For me there was never any real evidence aside from a report based on unnamed sources that said it was. LinkWhile BioWare abandoned Andromeda it doesn't mean the franchise was the reason for that to happen. Everything that Hudson says shouldn't be taken at face value (after all, he was one of the few people who lied regarding ME3). I will still take his word over a lower level employee that is anonymous for we can call him out for lying down the road where we have zero way to even judge what an anonymous employee said was accurate.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 22:44:17 GMT
Everything that Hudson says shouldn't be taken at face value (after all, he was one of the few people who lied regarding ME3). I will still take his word over a lower level employee that is anonymous for we can call him out for lying down the road where we have zero way to even judge what an anonymous employee said was accurate. And I would take the facts that have been shown over a guy who lied and caused the shit show that this franchise is in now.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2022 23:29:38 GMT
I will still take his word over a lower level employee that is anonymous for we can call him out for lying down the road where we have zero way to even judge what an anonymous employee said was accurate. And I would take the facts that have been shown over a guy who lied and caused the shit show that this franchise is in now. There are no facts about Mass Effect being put into hiatus either. All there is that Andromeda didn't have a DLC window everything else is all guesswork and one anonymous source who might have been the lowest level of employee hearing office gossip that was twisted like it was from the phone game.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 13, 2022 23:46:43 GMT
And I would take the facts that have been shown over a guy who lied and caused the shit show that this franchise is in now. There are no facts about Mass Effect being put into hiatus either. All there is that Andromeda didn't have a DLC window everything else is all guesswork and one anonymous source who might have been the lowest level of employee hearing office gossip that was twisted like it was from the phone game. So the fact that all support for MEA in terms of updates to fix the issues still wrong with with it, the fact that no plans were discussed in regards to a sequel and the fact that MENext not only hints at it taking place in the MW, but also seems to move away from MEA doesn't count?
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N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 14, 2022 0:18:40 GMT
There are no facts about Mass Effect being put into hiatus either. All there is that Andromeda didn't have a DLC window everything else is all guesswork and one anonymous source who might have been the lowest level of employee hearing office gossip that was twisted like it was from the phone game. So the fact that all support for MEA in terms of updates to fix the issues still wrong with with it, the fact that no plans were discussed in regards to a sequel and the fact that MENext not only hints at it taking place in the MW, but also seems to move away from MEA doesn't count? To me those things are an indictment towards Andromeda, but not that they were going to put the franchise on hiatus. Now if the conversation was that they did a retooling of future games I could see that for it fits into things like going back to The Milky Way or not having DLC, but just outright freezing development on any new Mass Effect games doesn't seem to fit for me. Now maybe its also my personal experiences, but the way I read a lot around Andromeda and its aftermath is not an indictment around the game or the franchise, but BioWare Montreal and how it handled itself during development.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 14, 2022 0:25:59 GMT
So the fact that all support for MEA in terms of updates to fix the issues still wrong with with it, the fact that no plans were discussed in regards to a sequel and the fact that MENext not only hints at it taking place in the MW, but also seems to move away from MEA doesn't count? To me those things are an indictment towards Andromeda, but not that they were going to put the franchise on hiatus. Now if the conversation was that they did a retooling of future games I could see that for it fits into things like going back to The Milky Way or not having DLC, but just outright freezing development on any new Mass Effect games doesn't seem to fit for me. Now maybe its also my personal experiences, but the way I read a lot around Andromeda and its aftermath is not an indictment around the game or the franchise, but BioWare Montreal and how it handled itself during development. Or maybe it's a bit of both.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2022 0:33:50 GMT
They never said that there was another Shepard story. Just that there was another story. The guy said one more story. Bioware had that guy say that line of dialogue for a reason. Him saying the details changed over time, it happened so long ago means it's possible for Shepard to return for ME4. They abandoned the Milky Way when Shepard's story isn't finished. I slightly disagree with it just being characters people want to see. For me the reason why I want Andromeda (or at least the story they started in Andromeda) to continue is there are still plot threads hanging that I would like to see addressed and wouldn't want them to just pretend Andromeda never happened. If there's to be an MEA2 with little Ryder returning, I want it to take place a short time after the events of MEA. That's because of the kett. They are the main threat. The Initiative has nothing to defend against them as seen when the Hyperion was taken. If anything, I would like to see the kett attack the Initiative in force. Getting rid of the Initiative wouldn't be hard. They know the location of the Nexus and outposts. I believe they also know the location of Aya. They show up in force attacking the Nexus. Within a few minutes, the Nexus is destroyed. The only reason I would want a sequel is because of the benefactor. If it wasn't for the Initiative, would he/it/they/she sit back while the galaxy burned instead of giving whatever information they knew about some threat before Shepard showed up in ME1? One way to get my attention for another game in Andromeda is to have the game take place far in the future where Ryder is a passing memory. Get a new main character and new side characters. I wonder if a sequel featuring Andromeda would do better with such a simple change as having a more military and serious protagonist? Playing Shepard is a fantasy to most people because most of us aren't in the military and if some are, they're probably not super soldiers... and Ryder, on the other hand, is quite relatable and could be any of us with sufficient fitness and if given a SAM. Maybe the problem with ME:A was dismissing the need for a power fantasy? They have experience and training in the military yet prove how unfit they are. Did the Alliance and their father, a former N7, train that stuff that Ryder does in the game? Whatever the little one learned went in one ear and out the other. It's all about the I don't care attitude. I could walk up to Ryder, smack them around like a little ragdoll, watch then fall to the ground, curl up into a fetal position, then start sucking their thumb. Some have posted, Ryder could be more mature in a sequel. To get me to believe she/he has, I like to see that right at the beginning of the game. A new squadmate asks why the stowaway and traitor are no longer on the roster. Ryder came to theconclusion that doing stupid thing can lead to bad things. Doesn't want that to happen again. To correct that, he/she removed the stowaway and traitor from the roster. That would be a start. I think it’s made pretty clear that the Kett may not be quite up to engaging the Initiative and Angara directly after their losses at both Khi Tasira and Meridian. Even if they decided to attack the planetside settlements, they’d have a much harder time getting to the operations within the Dyson sphere. We don’t really know what’s left that the Primus has under her command, though the ominous final cutscene suggests at least something to be concerned about. One thing’s for certain, the rest of the empire could not in any way respond to this anytime soon, since they need their own arks to even reach Heleus. By the time fresh troops were to arrive, the entire cluster could be settled with cities with fleets patrolling the entire region.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 14, 2022 0:37:29 GMT
Maybe they were trying for hard sci-fi in some areas, but even in Mass Effect 1 they jumped away from that at parts. Anything dealing with Reapers themselves never felt like hard sci-fi, just magic handwaving with "you cannot comprehend how powerful they really are". Maybe that is what made ME1 feel more hard sci-fi then the other entries because there was just less of the Reaper garbage. The thing I felt really undermined the reapers was Sovereign’s inane blustering. As cool as it sounded, it seemed like that sort of quasi-edgy thing that’s supposed to give us chilling revelations, but it collapses under any real scrutiny. They benefitted so much more by being this big unknown, with just some sensible theories as to why they did this or that or where they went. Mass Effect 2 is where the reapers got totally shat on in the science department. As for ME1, hard scifi took a swan dive out the window when a planet started rapid-fire birthing fully clothed biotic asari with shotguns lol
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 14, 2022 12:07:58 GMT
ME:A actually has great writing in emails and other texts you can read. I have laughed so many times while reading them. It's the animated/voice acted parts that often suck in some way. It makes me think they were written/designed by different people/teams.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 14, 2022 12:28:49 GMT
ME:A actually has great writing in emails and other texts you can read. I have laughed so many times while reading them. It's the animated/voice acted parts that often suck in some way. It makes me think they were written/designed by different people/teams. I think - dont know - a some of the talks are last minute additions, not refined as too are the animations... But yes, I dont see much difference in overall writing quality personally. One can pick examples from all the 4 games for plus and minuses.
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Sanunes
N6
    
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 14, 2022 13:19:34 GMT
ME:A actually has great writing in emails and other texts you can read. I have laughed so many times while reading them. It's the animated/voice acted parts that often suck in some way. It makes me think they were written/designed by different people/teams. I think - dont know - a some of the talks are last minute additions, not refined as too are the animations... But yes, I dont see much difference in overall writing quality personally. One can pick examples from all the 4 games for plus and minuses. I think the biggest problem I had with the writing in Andromeda is that it felt inconsistent. Which goes towards some of the reports where Mark Darrah when he came in had to redo and alter a bunch of the game to get it out the door due to the state the game was in at that point.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 14, 2022 13:22:26 GMT
I think - dont know - a some of the talks are last minute additions, not refined as too are the animations... But yes, I dont see much difference in overall writing quality personally. One can pick examples from all the 4 games for plus and minuses. I think the biggest problem I had with the writing in Andromeda is that it felt inconsistent. Which goes towards some of the reports where Mark Darrah when he came in had to redo and alter a bunch of the game to get it out the door due to the state the game was in at that point. True, but it was also problem for me in 2 a bit and 3 already. Not saying its a good thing, its one thing the writing should not be.
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N7
     
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 14, 2022 17:06:56 GMT
ME:A actually has great writing in emails and other texts you can read. I have laughed so many times while reading them. It's the animated/voice acted parts that often suck in some way. It makes me think they were written/designed by different people/teams. I think - dont know - a some of the talks are last minute additions, not refined as too are the animations... But yes, I dont see much difference in overall writing quality personally. One can pick examples from all the 4 games for plus and minuses. Yeah there's things in all 4 games tha tcan be pointed to in terms of things that can b eliked or disliked. But then that can be said about all games.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 14, 2022 18:33:25 GMT
I think it’s made pretty clear that the Kett may not be quite up to engaging the Initiative and Angara directly after their losses at both Khi Tasira and Meridian. Even if they decided to attack the planetside settlements, they’d have a much harder time getting to the operations within the Dyson sphere. We don’t really know what’s left that the Primus has under her command, though the ominous final cutscene suggests at least something to be concerned about. One thing’s for certain, the rest of the empire could not in any way respond to this anytime soon, since they need their own arks to even reach Heleus. By the time fresh troops were to arrive, the entire cluster could be settled with cities with fleets patrolling the entire region. Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. None of the AI's ground vehicles even have weapons. What could these groups do to stop a fully focused Kett attack exactly? The Kett could sit in orbit, with their warships, and just bomb planets into submission. For gods sake the one time at the end of the game Ryder magically summons the Forerunner ships, THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING SHOOT! This is the most ridiculous, lopsided set up I've ever seen in fiction. It's like a bunch of brain dead fanatical pacificts wrote this crap. Ryder can't be everywhere, and your team is clearly the only ones capable of defeating any Kett at all given the missions we're given the whole game. THe only reason the Kett haven't already won is pure narrative bullshitery.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 14, 2022 22:59:53 GMT
I think it’s made pretty clear that the Kett may not be quite up to engaging the Initiative and Angara directly after their losses at both Khi Tasira and Meridian. Even if they decided to attack the planetside settlements, they’d have a much harder time getting to the operations within the Dyson sphere. We don’t really know what’s left that the Primus has under her command, though the ominous final cutscene suggests at least something to be concerned about. One thing’s for certain, the rest of the empire could not in any way respond to this anytime soon, since they need their own arks to even reach Heleus. By the time fresh troops were to arrive, the entire cluster could be settled with cities with fleets patrolling the entire region. Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. None of the AI's ground vehicles even have weapons. What could these groups do to stop a fully focused Kett attack exactly? The Kett could sit in orbit, with their warships, and just bomb planets into submission. For gods sake the one time at the end of the game Ryder magically summons the Forerunner ships, THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING SHOOT! This is the most ridiculous, lopsided set up I've ever seen in fiction. It's like a bunch of brain dead fanatical pacificts wrote this crap. Ryder can't be everywhere, and your team is clearly the only ones capable of defeating any Kett at all given the missions we're given the whole game. THe only reason the Kett haven't already won is pure narrative bullshitery. As I recall, the Kett higher ups that were there were more interested in the artifacts in the Andromeda galaxy rather than the Angara. It's just that the leader decided to go against orders and attack the Andromeda Initative and the Angara. Why the Kett Empire were so fixiated was probably going to be adressed in another game or DLC.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2022 5:17:25 GMT
Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. None of the AI's ground vehicles even have weapons. What could these groups do to stop a fully focused Kett attack exactly? The Kett could sit in orbit, with their warships, and just bomb planets into submission. For gods sake the one time at the end of the game Ryder magically summons the Forerunner ships, THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING SHOOT! This is the most ridiculous, lopsided set up I've ever seen in fiction. It's like a bunch of brain dead fanatical pacificts wrote this crap. Ryder can't be everywhere, and your team is clearly the only ones capable of defeating any Kett at all given the missions we're given the whole game. THe only reason the Kett haven't already won is pure narrative bullshitery. As I recall, the Kett higher ups that were there were more interested in the artifacts in the Andromeda galaxy rather than the Angara. It's just that the leader decided to go against orders and attack the Andromeda Initative and the Angara. Why the Kett Empire were so fixiated was probably going to be adressed in another game or DLC. It was the other way around. The Kett higher ups wanted Archon to focus on exaltation, but he instead focused on the Remnant tech.
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Bann Duncan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Bann Duncan on Feb 15, 2022 5:57:25 GMT
“Even DA2 had DLC support”
“can’t finish the story they started to tell”These tell me you both missed something pretty huge, which is that DA2 was actually made by BioWare from start to finish, even though it was rushed. Andromeda was made by another company, who wasted years of times and millions of dollars doing little, until some people from BioWare came in last minute to try to salvage something out of what they had, in the year before release. This is not a story they started to tell. It’s a train they redirected before it completely flew off a cliff, but they didn’t start that train. Everyone here realizes Dragon Age 2 didn't get finished either, right? The Exalted March was cancelled, and it's whole narrative neutered and squished into being a footnote in Act 1 of Inquisition. Bioware decided to Prioritize their stupid, pointless Felicia Day DLC, the Mark of Felicia Day instead because they wanted to fanboy over a massively overrated actress. The abandoned plans were because of the massive backlash against DA2. Hawke was being set up to be the Shep of Dragon Age, and clearly the Inquisitor was originally Hawke. Even the opening of DA2 is clearly a framing narrative for this.
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 15, 2022 8:54:50 GMT
I think it’s made pretty clear that the Kett may not be quite up to engaging the Initiative and Angara directly after their losses at both Khi Tasira and Meridian. Even if they decided to attack the planetside settlements, they’d have a much harder time getting to the operations within the Dyson sphere. We don’t really know what’s left that the Primus has under her command, though the ominous final cutscene suggests at least something to be concerned about. One thing’s for certain, the rest of the empire could not in any way respond to this anytime soon, since they need their own arks to even reach Heleus. By the time fresh troops were to arrive, the entire cluster could be settled with cities with fleets patrolling the entire region. Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. None of the AI's ground vehicles even have weapons. What could these groups do to stop a fully focused Kett attack exactly? The Kett could sit in orbit, with their warships, and just bomb planets into submission. For gods sake the one time at the end of the game Ryder magically summons the Forerunner ships, THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING SHOOT! This is the most ridiculous, lopsided set up I've ever seen in fiction. It's like a bunch of brain dead fanatical pacificts wrote this crap. Ryder can't be everywhere, and your team is clearly the only ones capable of defeating any Kett at all given the missions we're given the whole game. THe only reason the Kett haven't already won is pure narrative bullshitery. The Kett don't want to obliterate everyone because they want to exalt them. That's why there are still angara left. The Kett don't want the angara to go suicidal because they would lose good material. If they were only interested in conquering new planets for themselves, things would be very different and AI would be screwed. There would be no angara left anywhere except maybe Aya.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 15, 2022 10:00:12 GMT
Everyone here realizes Dragon Age 2 didn't get finished either, right? The Exalted March was cancelled, and it's whole narrative neutered and squished into being a footnote in Act 1 of Inquisition. Bioware decided to Prioritize their stupid, pointless Felicia Day DLC, the Mark of Felicia Day instead because they wanted to fanboy over a massively overrated actress. The abandoned plans were because of the massive backlash against DA2. Hawke was being set up to be the Shep of Dragon Age, and clearly the Inquisitor was originally Hawke. Even the opening of DA2 is clearly a framing narrative for this. Not entirely true. DA2 got 2 big DLC's. Exalted March was cancelled because the DLC sales were bad...which is amusing considering the second one was quite literally pointless except for teasing Orlesian fashion styles. You bare however 100% correct about the rest. Hawke was clearly going to be the Inquisitor, and should have been the Inquisitor frankly. Dragon Age 2 was billed as "rise to power" and how Hawke was "the most important person in the history of Thedas". Corypheus was Hawke's problem to solve, because Hawke was the one who was tricked into releasing him. It should have been Hawke. Alas, Bioware has long since burned that bridge with me. I'm done with DA because they refuse to deviate from their "New character every game no matter what" formula.
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