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Post by mattmateusz15 on Mar 26, 2022 23:33:47 GMT
Does somebody remember who Shale is? Epic golem from DLC to Origins, The Stone Prisoner.
We know that Shale and Wynne went to Tevinter to make Shale a dwarf again. Did they make it? There is no answer for that question.
I really wish that Shale will appear in Dragon Age 4, she's so forgotten.
bioware pls, add her to da4!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 26, 2022 23:39:29 GMT
Shale is still a golem in Asunder when Wynne dies, but after that we don't know where she went.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 1:29:06 GMT
Great character. If titans are players in the coming game, she would be a natural to appear. Love her descriptions of fleshy things, very HK-47 at times with a feminine tweak.
I know Karpyshyn wrote HK. Can't find much about who wrote Shale, but I am sure somebody here knows.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 27, 2022 1:36:46 GMT
I know Karpyshyn wrote HK. Can't find much about who wrote Shale, but I am sure somebody here knows. Primarily David Gaider - her bird hatred was inspired by being stuck in a tiny office where his only view was out the window that looked onto the local pigeon population.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 1:53:00 GMT
I know Karpyshyn wrote HK. Can't find much about who wrote Shale, but I am sure somebody here knows. Primarily David Gaider - her bird hatred was inspired by being stuck in a tiny office where his only view was out the window that looked onto the local pigeon population. This follows. These two worked alot together, or together separately on their own pieces. Not a direct descendant, but maybe a little Gaider re-imagining from a different perspective. Just where my head goes, total conjecture. Now that you mention the bird thing, I remember that story
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 27, 2022 3:55:39 GMT
We can only hope Shale makes a comeback.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 27, 2022 3:58:23 GMT
We can only hope Shale makes a comeback. If Shale ends up breaking Solas' spine Bane style I'll be soooo happy.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 27, 2022 7:35:07 GMT
We know that Shale and Wynne went to Tevinter to make Shale a dwarf again. Did they make it? There is no answer for that question. It only happens in some play throughs. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't happen if Wynne is killed. Also, if you side with Branka then Shale fights you but if you strike her down I suppose it could be argued she isn't dead, simply unconscious and then she gets up and goes her own way. That would still have a different outcome for her though. As another poster has said, Wynne and Shale are together in the novel Asunder and since that was written by the then lead writer for the game, I suppose you could say that was the nearest we can get for a "canon" outcome for the pair. Now if they visited Tevinter before the novel, which would make sense as there is a 9 year gap to fill, then presumably their quest to find a way to reverse the process that created Shale ended in failure. Actually, that always seemed a strange thing to attempt since the only way to restore her as a dwarf would be to find another dwarf body for her spirit to transfer to but surely that would result in the eradication of another dwarf or some sort of possession along the lines of Justice/Anders. If they used a dead body from which the spirit had already fled, then would the presence of Shale's spirit prevent decomposition? Remember that was a problem Justice had with his Grey Warden body. It also seemed odd that they would go to Tevinter when surely the Mortalitasi would have the greatest specialist knowledge with regard to the transfer of spirits. It is where Dorian went for specialist knowledge about Necromancy. Nevertheless, I think it can be assumed that whether they went to Tevinter or Nevarra, or both, that it wasn't possible to restore Shale as a dwarf. That is all to the good, of course, because that would mean it is possible Shale could return, even as only a cameo or optional sub-quest, in DA4. With Wynne having died in Asunder, that would leave Shale a free agent to do as she pleased. In fact it is possible that instead of encountering her in Tevinter, instead we meet her in Kal-Sharok. I'm still hopeful that the dwarf concept art relates to that thaig and there are certainly mysteries to be solved with regard to their survival down the years. Also, I think there is a good chance they would be opposed to any restoration of the elves, whether it resulted in destruction of the current world or not, as they wiped out the thaig of Cad'Halash for assisting the Arlathan refugees in the past, which I believe went beyond simply wishing to appease Tevinter. I think it is only natural that Shale would be drawn there, out of curiosity if nothing else, and that the dwarves there would both respect and honour her past sacrifice, which would have taken place prior to Orzammar abandoning them. So she could turn up working with the dwarves of Kal-Sharok.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 31, 2022 14:40:53 GMT
We can only hope Shale makes a comeback. If Shale ends up breaking Solas' spine Bane style I'll be soooo happy. I can see it already. Shale: I am watching you, elf. If I see one of those finger of yours open so much as a tiny rift— POW! Solas: (Pained whine!) Shale: I am glad we have this understanding. At least your kind can be reasoned with... unlike those damned feathered fiends!
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Post by lynroy on Mar 31, 2022 15:44:03 GMT
Shale? Never heard of her...
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 31, 2022 17:06:39 GMT
Shale? Never heard of her... Truly? She was an additional character you get via (free) download. At least that was the case for me but I did purchase DAO some months after it originally came out so may be she wasn't available from the outset or you had to pay to get her. If you didn't have her and ever wondered what those crystals were for that you could acquire, it was for Shale.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 31, 2022 21:17:52 GMT
I really wish that Shale will appear in Dragon Age 4, she's so forgotten. bioware pls, add her to da4! First thank you for remembering Shale and second absolutely agree that Shale should return for DA 4.
In my opinion Bioware should focus more on characters (besides characters who make sense because of the Tevinter setting like Dorian or Fenris) we haven´t seen for a while. So no more Alistair and especially no Leliana instead Sten (as new Arishok) and the aforementioned Shale should be make an appearance. The only problem i see with Shale are her different fates. I mean how can Bioware explain her return for a bigger role which isn´t a cameo if the player can never recruit or even kill her in DAO?
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 31, 2022 23:19:57 GMT
I really wish that Shale will appear in Dragon Age 4, she's so forgotten. bioware pls, add her to da4! First thank you for remembering Shale and second absolutely agree that Shale should return for DA 4.
In my opinion Bioware should focus more on characters (besides characters who make sense because of the Tevinter setting like Dorian or Fenris) we haven´t seen for a while. So no more Alistair and especially no Leliana instead Sten (as new Arishok) and the aforementioned Shale should be make an appearance. The only problem i see with Shale are her different fates. I mean how can Bioware explain her return for a bigger role which isn´t a cameo if the player can never recruit or even kill her in DAO?
I wouldn't mind seeing Shale come back in some way. The coda in DAO did state that she became a dwarf if you recruited and befriended her and IIRC there made a joke about the pigeon population declining in some areas with rumors. That would be a way around it. The same with Leliana joining the Warden in the Fade after her performance of song about the Warden if you romanced her and died killing the archdeamon.
Leliana is the only character that I want to come back. Alistair, Sten, Zevron, Fenris, and Cole I would be happy never see them again.
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Post by lynroy on Apr 1, 2022 1:32:54 GMT
Shale? Never heard of her... Truly? She was an additional character you get via (free) download. At least that was the case for me but I did purchase DAO some months after it originally came out so may be she wasn't available from the outset or you had to pay to get her. If you didn't have her and ever wondered what those crystals were for that you could acquire, it was for Shale. I was joking.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2022 7:54:43 GMT
Sorry, sometimes I just take things at face value. It is possible someone could have played the game without Shale.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2022 8:12:27 GMT
The coda in DAO did state that she became a dwarf if you recruited and befriended her I don't recall that part. I still question how that would even be possible. Her original body was destroyed on the creation of the golem, so her spirit is now contained within its structure. It is why she essentially can't age and so is effectively immortal. As I've said above, to become a dwarf again would involve the sacrifice of another dwarf or the use of the body of a recently dead dwarf, both of which would be problematic. The only problem i see with Shale are her different fates. I mean how can Bioware explain her return for a bigger role which isn´t a cameo if the player can never recruit or even kill her in DAO? As I've suggested above, may be she wasn't actually dead if you fight her but merely knocked out. I never fought Shale myself but I don't think it results in her being decapitated as Leliana could be but simply falling over. So it could be possible for her to revive after you leave. As for not recruiting her, that is easier to explain because the merchant could simply have sold the control rod to someone else, after which the sequence of events could have been pretty much the same as in our story. Of course, she wouldn't necessarily have discovered her true identity as that was tied into her journey with the Warden but if we assume that she didn't succeed in reversing the process that made her a golem then that part of her history becomes somewhat irrelevant as she is now Shale, not the dwarf she once was in terms of her physical body. It is also possible that Kal-Sharok knew of the process that made the golems so could have enlightened her if she ended up there or Orzammar were still told by the Warden but just not with Shale in attendance but she later visited them. Essentially they could simply have run with the character of Shale as depicted in Asunder, which was pretty much in keeping with the majority of experiences we could have in DAO. No mention was made there of what happened to Shale after Wynne's funeral so that left the way clear for her to return at some later date. I notice that WoT2 also leaves the way open for her return. There is a quote from Rhys saying how she is now a dwarf in an immortal stone body and "one wonders what will become of her in the ages to come", whilst the text about her states at the end that "Her whereabouts are now unknown." This seems to both confirm that any possibility of a return to a mortal body has been discounted, at least in the period between DAO and DAI, and that she is still in circulation somewhere but probably not in Tevinter itself or someone who have heard of it. However, my idea about Kal-Sharok would definitely fit with this statement as the dwarves there would not likely tell anyone if Shale had joined them.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 1, 2022 16:42:33 GMT
Leliana is the only character that I want to come back. Alistair, Sten, Zevron, Fenris, and Cole I would be happy never see them again.
No offense but Leliana is clearly the most overused character in the series therefore i really hope that she isn´t in DA 4. By the way i would be shocked if Fenris and Sten (as new Arishok) wouldn´t been in DA 4.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 1, 2022 17:01:56 GMT
As I've suggested above, may be she wasn't actually dead if you fight her but merely knocked out. I never fought Shale myself but I don't think it results in her being decapitated as Leliana could be but simply falling over. So it could be possible for her to revive after you leave. I thought about the same thing can a golem really finally be killed in a combat? Its possible to explain this but i fear this could similiar like the aforementioned Leliana. Players were angry back then that their choice of killing or decapitating her weren´t respected by DA 2 and DAI. Only one problem for Shale activation you need also the words "Dulen Harn" from someone who knows it. Matthias and his daughter are quantum characters so they aren´t an option. So this person must also find the words somehow. Of course it could be found in some books but wouldn´t it be a bit far-fetched?
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2022 17:48:37 GMT
Only one problem for Shale activation you need also the words "Dulen Harn" from someone who knows it. Matthias and his daughter are quantum characters so they aren´t an option. Don't you have to buy the control rod for the village to appear as a quest? Surely if you don't buy the rod and you don't go to the village then theoretically the alternative person with the control rod could wind up there, help Matthias and get the activation words as a result? Alternatively, the person could bribe some mage to consult with spirits of the Fade in the vicinity and get the activation word from them. Clearly, David Gaider thought it reasonable enough that Shale could be in circulation regardless of events in DAO or he wouldn't have included her in Asunder. Is it any less plausible than Sten turning up as Arishok even though you could have left him to his fate in Lothering? Whilst they say they are going to try and avoid quantum characters in the future, I think that only really applies to people that are potentially definitely dead and even then it seems the writers are prepared to overlook such inconveniences for the sake of a good story. Fenris can be killed in DA2, yet they allowed the writers of the comic series to bring him back for their story. Mind you, that ended with Fenris heading south, so I don't think we are likely to see him in DA4. By contrast, the last time we heard of Shale in Asunder, she was up on the border of Tevinter and the Hunterhorn Mountains at Andoral's Reach. She only had to head a short way north into the mountain range to reach Kal-Sharok, which is why I think the most likely place we would encounter her would be there.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Apr 2, 2022 0:01:42 GMT
Personally I'd happily see Shale again whether with her having retaken Dwarven form, in golem form getting to help her finally change, or as a golem who failed to find a way to be a dwarf again but has learnt lots of cool magic lore that could help us when she tried. The coda in DAO did state that she became a dwarf if you recruited and befriended her I don't recall that part. I still question how that would even be possible. Her original body was destroyed on the creation of the golem, so her spirit is now contained within its structure. It is why she essentially can't age and so is effectively immortal. As I've said above, to become a dwarf again would involve the sacrifice of another dwarf or the use of the body of a recently dead dwarf, both of which would be problematic. Epilogue slideshow if Shale is friendly: "Shale left Ferelden soon after the battle at Denerim, refusing all offers of reward by the royal court. The golem was not seen again... but rumors abounded of an angry dwarven woman in the far north who hunted pigeons with reckless abandon." Not that bioware is above retconning the dao epilogue slides. But morrigan's rumours of being in the orlesian court slide panned out. As for the notion that she would have to sacrifice another dwarf or take over a corpse, why though? Cole was able to exist in a physical body identical to human without possessing anyone. So evidently it's possible to create a body. Why should there be no possible way for shale?
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 2, 2022 8:02:10 GMT
As for the notion that she would have to sacrifice another dwarf or take over a corpse, why though? Cole was able to exist in a physical body identical to human without possessing anyone. So evidently it's possible to create a body. Why should there be no possible way for shale? Yes, I have to admit that Cole rather negated the whole possession problem with regard to spirits existing in the Waking World. To a certain extent so did Imshael. He seemed to have the option of either possessing someone or roaming around looking like a regular human. In his case you could argue he was an ultra powerful ancient spirit from a time when taking different forms was commonplace but where does that leave Cole or Justice for that matter? The whole point with Justice is that he was trapped inside a slowly rotting corpse, so instead Anders offered him a living vessel to co-habit. Why didn't Justice simply take on a human shape of his own? Why do other spirits need to possess people in order to experience life outside the Fade? Why not simply do as Cole did? Mind you, Cole was different from Imshael in that he didn't seem to remember he was a spirit until Lambert forced that knowledge upon him. Also, his personal quest did seem to suggest that his state of mind did seem to influence whether he became more human or more spirit. Essentially by getting him to confront and overcome his emotion against the Templar made him more human. This is presumably because he was engaging with an emotion other than his prime identity of compassion. In other words he was able to exhibit a range of emotions, which later led to him forming a romantic attachment to Maryden. Anyway, with Cole we are dealing with a pure spirit becoming more material. By contrast, Shale would be moving in the opposite direction to achieve the same thing that Cole and Imshael could do. Shale began her life as a mortal dwarf. Her spirit is in fact a soul and thus differs from a spirit that has its origins in the Fade. This is particularly true of a dwarf because they do not appear to have any connection with the Fade and an unconscious connection with the Stone/titans. The Profane are the dwarves whose souls' connection with the Stone has been severed and so they are doomed to the half-life of the creatures we discover in the ancient thaig. They no longer even look like dwarves. When Shale was made into a golem, her body was destroyed but her soul lived on in the construct, anchored there by magic. Without an alternative vessel to transfer to, if the golem body was destroyed I assume that her soul would simply travel to wherever normal dwarven souls go upon death. Just as human and elven souls enter the Fade (not sure about Qunari at present). If it was possible to simply take on the appropriate form, why didn't Mythal do this when she was killed? Instead her soul entered the Fade but retained its identity sufficiently that she could live again in the Waking World once she found someone who was willing to co-exist with her. This is why I feel that if Shale was going to become a dwarf again she would need an actual body to occupy, not simply be able to conjure one up herself by force of will as Cole did. I think the "rumours" about Shale were just that and may be she told people she was a dwarf and they believed her or it was just an error on the part of the person writing the slide. If it had been possible to restore her as a dwarf, why didn't she appear in that form in Asunder? As I point out above, it was set 9 years after the end of the Blight, so if it had been possible, particularly with Wynne's help, surely it would have happened by then.
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N4
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 2, 2022 16:56:28 GMT
Leliana is the only character that I want to come back. Alistair, Sten, Zevron, Fenris, and Cole I would be happy never see them again.
No offense but Leliana is clearly the most overused character in the series therefore i really hope that she isn´t in DA 4. By the way i would be shocked if Fenris and Sten (as new Arishok) wouldn´t been in DA 4.
Leliana is my favorite character in the franchise as long as they don't do that is nice or mean story for her again I would be happy with her returning in a cameo.
Sten and Fenris are two characters I have tried and tried to understand why loves them over the years but they doesn't click with me so I just leave them in camp and house and use them with necessary. I understand why Alistair and Zevron are popular. Cole is one the most annoying characters in the series to date.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 2, 2022 20:07:11 GMT
Sten and Fenris are two characters I have tried and tried to understand why loves them over the years but they doesn't click with me so I just leave them in camp and house and use them with necessary. I understand why Alistair and Zevron are popular. Cole is one the most annoying characters in the series to date. To be honest, of these characters I think the only one who might possibly appear is Sten as the Arishok, assuming of course that he didn't die and was replaced after the end of the comic series. According to WoT2 Tevinter were really worried about him as Arishok and were going to make particular efforts to assassinate him. Now I've always argued that I couldn't see Sten rebelling against the other two arms of the Triumverate but I could see his generals going rogue if Tevinter succeeded in assassinating him and launching the attack on the mainland in reprisal without the approval of Par Vollen. Still, if he is behind the current invasion of Tevinter then I suppose a possible quest/sub-quest could involve trying to remove him from the picture, with the possible option of warning him instead. Cole might possibly turn up again, although they have the complication that he had two different outcomes at the end of Trespasser. Spirit Cole seemed wholly loyal to Solas but I suppose it might be possible to change his mind on that. Human Cole no longer has anything to make him unique enough to return, although I suppose he and Maryden could have eventually gravitated up north in order to boost moral there among the people suffering in the war. It would be no more than a cameo though. Personally, whilst I do like Fenris, I can't see him returning as the end of the comic series had him heading south with his new found allies. Zevran can be variously dead or away out west with the Hero but I suppose he might turn up if we go to Antiva. Alistair can be dead, still drunk, in the Fade or King but either way he has no business being up north. In a very few instances he was heading to Weisshauppt, as were Hawke, Stroud or Loghain depending on your choices. However, since Hawke was back in Kirkwall at the end of Trespasser, I would assume the others had probably left their HQ too, or at least that would be the writers explanation for why we don't see them if we go there. Would they really waste resources on having either Alistair, Stroud or Loghain do yet another cameo?
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 3, 2022 11:41:02 GMT
Nah.
To me, beyond cameos, returning characters from previous games runs the risk of them repeating arcs (like Oghren and Lelianna) or being so changed that they might as well be a new person (Anders/Justice). Plus it can get too fan servicey, makes the world smaller, and takes away from new characters.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 4, 2022 21:59:24 GMT
Personally, whilst I do like Fenris, I can't see him returning as the end of the comic series had him heading south with his new found allies. And? This was in 9:45 but it seems that DA 4 takes place in 9:52 or beyond. I think that he has a pretty good chance to return because (besides Dorian of course) of his heavy Tevinter focus. Its like Zevran and Josephine for Dragon Age who takes place in Antiva people will expect that they show up in some form. I don´t think that drunk Alistair exists anymore. "If Alistair was exiled... Rumored to be King Maric of Ferelden's bastard son, there was a moment during the recent fifth blight where Alistair could have ascended to the throne. Instead, the throne was given to Queen Anora, daughter of the traitorous Teyrn Loghain-the very man responsible for the death of almost every Grey Warden in Ferelden at the infamous Battle of Ostagar. Disgusted, Alistair abandoned the Grey Wardens, and for years lived in disgraced exile in the Free Marches. Several years ago, Alistair was retrieved from his exile, sobered up, and eventually re-admitted to the order...though he chose to do so in Orlais rather than his homeland."
By the if he is left in the Fade its very likely also dead so its only (if not dead of course) Grey Warden or King of Ferelden. Especially for Loghain it doesn´t make sense. Yes in some worldstates he is alive but i assume that´s pretty low number of worldstates. And that´s why i believe that Bioware uses for the vast majority of the returning characters non quantum characters in DA 4.
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