cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 4, 2022 22:06:05 GMT
Nah. To me, beyond cameos, returning characters from previous games runs the risk of them repeating arcs (like Oghren and Lelianna) or being so changed that they might as well be a new person (Anders/Justice). Plus it can get too fan servicey, makes the world smaller, and takes away from new characters. It depends. First we can all agree that Solas and Dorian are no matter what in DA 4. And Varric? well i hope not that he isn´t in the game. Next it would be pretty surprising if Harding, Calpernia, Fenris and Sten / Arishock won´t be used in some form. And for cameos are every character possible who make sense to visit Tevinter, Seheron or Weisshaupt.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 5, 2022 8:43:00 GMT
First we can all agree that Solas and Dorian are no matter what in DA 4. Not just in DA4 but part of the main plot. I think that is the difference. Clearly they could bring back characters in cameos for small sub-plots, with an alternative if the character was dead in some world states (like Nathaniel in DA2) but that wouldn't conflict with their assertion that they would never pull another Leliana on us. So what I am considering is characters that are part of the main story line and cannot really be separated from it. Admittedly, they got around that one in Mass Effect 3 with Wrex/Wrev and Legion/an alternative Geth on the main story path, depending on your choices in previous games, but that may prove harder with DA characters. In a way lyrium spirit Leliana was a substitute for the real thing but they didn't tell us that until much later, so players were left annoyed by an apparent contradiction with their actions in DAO. Therefore, if they were going to adopt that approach they would need to be upfront with it, as they were with the substitute Legion. On this basis: Arishok: If we meet him it could be Sten or a replacement Sten since new players would not recognise the difference anyway. Strong possibility. Calpernia: We never see her dead body so her survival is easily enough explained. Death being doubtful is also hinted at in WoT2. Harding: Always survives so no problem to bringing her back on that basis. Stated as a joint successor to Leliana in epilogue Trespasser. Charter: An alternative to Harding based off epilogue and associated literature. Most likely an advisor not a companion. Varric: I doubt he will be a companion this time round but more likely an adviser/point of contact and information for our new PC. Pretty much certain on the basis of the trailer. Josephine: A possibility if we do travel to Antiva and likely point of contact there. (Zevran is less likely because he can be dead, so optional sub-plot only) In addition it is possible we will encounter Alistair/Stroud/Loghain as a Grey Warden since I'm pretty sure that Weisshauppt is going to feature in the main plot but, given the passage of time from when they were meant to be at HQ, I think that the writers would want to avoid this. We are far more likely to get Grey Warden characters from Tevinter Nights as a nod to the fan base. Fenris cannot be a main plot character. He could be dead or reunited with Hawke (in our head at least but he will be shown as romanced in the Keep) and he is too unique a figure to have a generic alternative. If he turns up at all, it will be as an optional sub-plot or, if they bring back the War Table, as a mission character there.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 5, 2022 16:34:42 GMT
Arishok: If we meet him it could be Sten or a replacement Sten since new players would not recognise the difference anyway. Strong possibility. Does Sten really needs a replacement? I would argue No because they can still find a way to write non recruited Sten (someone else open his cell) and his sword quest (after years he find it himself). A bit forced maybe but it could be done. Only if DA 4 takes also in Antiva which i highly doubt. Antiva should be safe for another DA. We already have Tevinter, Anderfels (mainly Weisshaupt) and very likely also Seheron as setting for DA 4.
In my opinion that´s enough for one game. I also think that´s include Divine Victoria aka Leliana, Cassandra or Vivienne which aren´t needed for DA 4. We have seen them in the Trespasser DLC and that´s ok but that´s doesn´t Bioware to mention them. Of course Fenris can´t be a major character but they still can work with a replacement like Wrex / Wreav or Mordin / Padok Wiks. If Fenris isn´t around we get some Fog Warrior instead who isn´t Fenris but works also for the Fog Warrior plot.
And that´s just normal unslaved Fenris. The main reason why i think Fenris has a good chance is that they can use his different fates for a more unique worldstate experiences. If we don´t get a slave Fenris with Danarius as cameo it would be a disappointment.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 5, 2022 17:45:53 GMT
Only if DA 4 takes also in Antiva which i highly doubt. Antiva should be safe for another DA 4. Problem is that the concept art which was later realised in the trailer was identified by its creator as Antiva, not Minrathous or any other Tevinter city. I would agree that we would have enough locations without Antiva and the magical castle and sea location would just as easily fit for Minrathous or Vyrantium, both of which featured in Tevinter Nights. However, there was also a major focus on the Crows in both Tevinter Nights and the later short story. Also, against all logic, it seemed as though the Antaam were definitely planning an attack on Antiva. This seemed ridiculous to me as it would immediately bring all the southern nations into the war against the Antaam, as Antiva is covered by the Llomerryn Accord, whilst Tevinter is not. Why would any Arishok, but particularly one that is said to be as astute as Sten, make such a stupid move? Far better to subdue Tevinter first and then turn your attention to its neighbours. So unless the majority of Tevinter had been conquered by 9:52 (what could the Magisterium be thinking to let it get that far?), it seemed to me that Antiva had no relevance to the plot with regard to Solas, particularly as Charter didn't even see fit to invite the Crows to her meeting of the "best spies on the Continent", nor did anyone else remark on their absence from proceedings. I know they are technically a guild of assassins but they essentially run Antiva and have agents of their own across Thedas, so I would definitely have seen fit to invite them if it was me, particularly when they have so many elves among their members who might have crossed paths with Solas' agents. On the basis of Tevinter Nights, short stories and the trailer it seems likely that the main factions in the game were originally intended to be the Grey Wardens, Crows, Mortalitasi and the Executors, plus possible the Lords of Fortune who were introduced to us for the first time in TN. As we have been discussing on the Twitter thread, the problem is all these reveals came before the change in direction back to single player, so it is possible they were originally intended to be part of multi-player content and so will ultimately be absent from the single player game. If we do end up going to Kal-Sharok, which I really hope we do, I do think there is a good chance of meeting Shale there.
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 5, 2022 19:34:05 GMT
Invariably, the writers could bring back anyone for any reason, but aside from fan service, why do you *want* them to? If it's nostalgia, you still have the old games. What themes or gameplay mechanics do they provide that new characters couldn't explore? Are cheap pops really worth resetting character development, ruining happy endings and/or potentially killing them off, creating plot holes, and having less time for new characters?
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 5, 2022 19:56:51 GMT
Invariably, the writers could bring back anyone for any reason, but aside from fan service, why do you *want* them to? Some writers find it exciting to tell stories what happen to character XYZ after some time. I don´t think that new characters are always the best solution. If Bioware want to have a character for their new game which is pretty similiar to an already existing one why not using the original? To be fair yes are returning characters like Oghren, Anders / Justice, Varric and Dorian & Solas who became major NPCs in the next game (or Addon) but that´s the minority. Bioware prefer to use secondary characters which have an unfinished storyarc in a previous game. For example Merrill, Isabela or Cassandra. I know that i have linked this interview countless times but it never lost its value.
"PC Gamer: Fair enough. What is your criteria for determining which characters do come back? Actually, not simply from the dead, but I mean from game to game. Why would Varric make the cut and not somebody else?
Mark Darrah: That's a good question. Some of it's based on just what the writers are excited about writing. But also, we look for a certain amount of balance between the character. There's a bunch of things that we're trying to do for balance. You want a certain degree of balance between the classes. You want a certain amount of balance between the genders and then a certain amount of balance between the romance options.
If you've had a character in a previous game that was a romance option typically we won't bring them back because they carry a lot of extra baggage with them. You're not going to have a romance option come back and certainly not have them be a romance option again because there's a lot of baggage that comes with that.
The player might get angry as well. “But they're in love with my previous character forever and ever and ever. How dare you?” I think there's validity to that. You can start to cross off a few characters because of that. We often don't bring back characters, at least not as followers, if they were previously romance options. You might see them. Alistair comes back because we can do cameos and have them have an influence on the story.
But additionally, some characters, Varric's a very good character because one of Varric's primary motivations is he's the guy that's got your back. He's your friend. He's a very good character to have because it's good to have someone in your camp no matter what. That makes him a very attractive character. It makes him an interesting character to have because he offers a nice counterpoint to a lot of other kinds of characters.
The other thing that causes us to bring someone back is someone that we're just simply not done with. That the arc is incomplete. Isabella between Origins and Dragon Age 2 is a good example of that. We introduced her, but there's just a lot more to be done with that. That's actually usually how we choose. Often characters move. We don't reuse followers very often. Obviously, we are reusing Varric. We typically promote secondary characters between games.
PC Gamer: Right, so someone graduates from being a quest-giving NPC to being a companion.
Mark Darrah: Yes."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 5, 2022 21:28:34 GMT
Only if DA 4 takes also in Antiva which i highly doubt. Antiva should be safe for another DA 4. We already have Tevinter, Anderfels (mainly Weisshaupt) and very likely also Seheron as setting for DA 4.
In my opinion that´s enough for one game. I agree. Unfortunately Bioware is just going to waste it and throw it away in this game.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 5, 2022 21:44:21 GMT
I agree. Unfortunately Bioware is just going to waste it and throw it away in this game. In my opinion DAI should have featured only Orlais because returning to Ferelden wasn´t that necessary. I only like to no ones surprise Crestwood. To be fair Orlais isn´t that great neither. The "big" city of Val Royeaux is a joke. This has to be the most important capital of Thedas.
Speaking of DA 4. I also fear that we also visit Nevarra, Free Marches (mainly Starkhaven) and maybe Rivain in DA 4.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 6, 2022 7:38:49 GMT
In my opinion DAI should have featured only Orlais because returning to Ferelden wasn´t that necessary. I only like to no ones surprise Crestwood. To be fair Orlais isn´t that great neither. The "big" city of Val Royeaux is a joke. This has to be the most important capital of Thedas. This, I think, is what all of us fear may happen to other iconic locations if they try and cram too much into the next game. A flying visit to Antiva won't really do it justice; a small section of the Grand Necropolis will be a bit of a let down but my biggest fear is for Minrathous. You say that Val Royeaux is the most important capital of Thedas but that is not true. The most important city by far is Minrathous. As Dorian says, its architecture is very ancient and it has been the capital of human civilisation for millennia, certainly long before Val Royeaux even existed as more than a gathering place for barbarians to trade their wares. To my mind they could have set almost the entire game within Minrathous, with just the odd excursion to other places, if they treated it like they did Athkatla back in the good old days of Baldurs Gate 2 and not like Kirkwall. In fact, that is what I find so peculiar about the concept art being mostly of Antiva. I thought it was showcasing Minrathous until people on these boards pointed out that was not the case and the creator had labelled them Antiva, which is particularly odd considering the magical castle seems out of place in Antiva but totally what you would expect to find in Tevinter. So unless that was done deliberately to throw us off the scent, we have numerous city art relating to Antiva and only one view that seems definitely from Tevinter and that is the neon lit darkened street with the associated scene featuring the hooded figure with a winged dagger. Even the later concept art of a mage character is still shown in a similar location. Meanwhile all the concept art featuring Crows is associated with rooftop locations or streets associated with the magical castle. This makes me fear that Minrathous is going to consist of just one area with the neon lights at its core and maybe a market place and a temple building leading off from it but we shall never see Minrathous in all its glory, just as we only ever saw a small suburb of Val Royeaux, with the main city and its iconic buildings not even visible on the skyline.
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