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Post by ahglock on Nov 17, 2022 18:24:10 GMT
I kind of agree with RedCaesar on this.mostly ME2 design. I think it had the best base design though there were technical improvements in ME3 in the shooting but it lost a lot in the feel, though it did add some good enemy types to force you out of cover. Give every enemy defense on insanity, honestly I think even on normal they should. It does not make sense in the setting for them not to pack a shield of some kind. Just make it super weak on normal. But as i only play on insanity, whatever it wont effect me. Bring back the idea that some weapons work better against some defenses.
While I like the idea of combos, I think how ME3 and andromeda did it was the wrong way. It just turned everything into a explosion. In ME2 warp exploded, the other biotics might work by having an increased effect throw launching people into orbit if already lifted etc but without the explosion. So sure, expand combos, but don't make them just a pile of different colored explosions. Keep warp as the exploder, have combos off ice shatter and cause a slow effect on a area make each combo somewhat unique.
I'm personally not a fan of the jetpack it makes combat too easy, you can't really get flanked or pinned down as you pretty much always have a escape route with super burst speed. But that seems popular enough I guess that is going to stick around.
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Post by hulluliini on Nov 18, 2022 8:14:34 GMT
While I like the idea of combos, I think how ME3 and andromeda did it was the wrong way. It just turned everything into a explosion. In ME2 warp exploded, the other biotics might work by having an increased effect throw launching people into orbit if already lifted etc but without the explosion. So sure, expand combos, but don't make them just a pile of different colored explosions. Keep warp as the exploder, have combos off ice shatter and cause a slow effect on a area make each combo somewhat unique. I'm of two minds about this. While it was often entertaining to watch enemies fly off to stratosphere, having everything explode is also immensely satisfying. I hope they bring back enemies just endlessly screaming because you shot them with inferno ammo.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 20, 2022 21:45:09 GMT
I agree there should be a return to biotics as a more kinematic playstyle, meaning making only Warp + maybe one other power a detonator. More enemy-type and protective variation ala ME2, also.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 23:48:20 GMT
Eh... I like that Biotics are special.
Fire Explosions/Cryo Explosions are fun, but maybe the conditions could make them less likely to occur every time. Tech Explosions make sense to me as being nearly as damaging as BEs, and already have more stringent conditions than CE/FE/BE.
I want more, not less. This may be unpopular. Give me more types of BE... we already know the strongest is Warp+Shockwave. Lift damage based explosions could be different than grenade based etc, and depending on build, amps and powers chosen for a particular BE, you might get a "Flare"-sort of massive bonus BE only available when 2 similarly built players are involved in the explosion.
Team Splosion > Solo Splosion. This is the nuts and bolts of my wish, particularly for MP.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 23, 2022 14:23:16 GMT
Just keep the combat system from MEA, it is the best, most fun and fluid of the series.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 23, 2022 14:42:50 GMT
Just keep the combat system from MEA, it is the best, most fun and fluid of the series. If they add the power wheel, I agree.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 23, 2022 22:32:41 GMT
Eh... I like that Biotics are special. Fire Explosions/Cryo Explosions are fun, but maybe the conditions could make them less likely to occur every time. Tech Explosions make sense to me as being nearly as damaging as BEs, and already have more stringent conditions than CE/FE/BE. I want more, not less. This may be unpopular. Give me more types of BE... we already know the strongest is Warp+Shockwave. Lift damage based explosions could be different than grenade based etc, and depending on build, amps and powers chosen for a particular BE, you might get a "Flare"-sort of massive bonus BE only available when 2 similarly built players are involved in the explosion. Team Splosion > Solo Splosion. This is the nuts and bolts of my wish, particularly for MP. I might be okay with Shockwave remaining a detonating ability alongside Warp, since that's the only thing that would make it non-redundant, basically (Yeah, there are niche builds and certain situations where it can be of use as opposed to Pull and Throw, but by-and-large it was one of the worst Biotic abilities.)
That said, we're likely gonna be seeing new abilities in the next game and, provided Bioware's not going to be importing the whole repertoire of abilities from 3, Shockwave is a good candidate for replacement altogether.
I had no idea that Warp + Shockwave made the most powerful BE, either.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 24, 2022 0:00:14 GMT
I might be okay with Shockwave remaining a detonating ability alongside Warp, since that's the only thing that would make it non-redundant, basically (Yeah, there are niche builds and certain situations where it can be of use as opposed to Pull and Throw, but by-and-large it was one of the worst Biotic abilities.) That said, we're likely gonna be seeing new abilities in the next game and, provided Bioware's not going to be importing the whole repertoire of abilities from 3, Shockwave is a good candidate for replacement altogether.
I had no idea that Warp + Shockwave made the most powerful BE, either.
Shockwave and Warp in ME3 had evolutions that increased combo damage, so picking both evolutions made Warp + Shockwave the most damaging combo. Personally, I think Stasis would be a good replacement for Shockwave. I think Shockwave could have been more interesting as a bonus power. I also think a combination of ME2 and ME3 Shockwave would make Shockwave better. ME3 allowed you to direct Shockwave in any direction, but the default (vanilla SP and MP version) distance was rather pitiful. Giving it the distance of ME2 Shockwave would make it better. Just my opinion though.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 24, 2022 0:32:51 GMT
Shockwave and Warp in ME3 had evolutions that increased combo damage, so picking both evolutions made Warp + Shockwave the most damaging combo. Personally, I think Stasis would be a good replacement for Shockwave. I think Shockwave could have been more interesting as a bonus power. I also think a combination of ME2 and ME3 Shockwave would make Shockwave better. ME3 allowed you to direct Shockwave in any direction, but the default (vanilla SP and MP version) distance was rather pitiful. Giving it the distance of ME2 Shockwave would make it better. Just my opinion though. re: Warp + Shockwave, yeah, I just recently started getting into the mechanics of ME combat; I'm not familiar with some of the specifics.
Stasis I would only want on either a Sentinel or a ME2-style Adept. On a 1 or 3-style Adept it is/would be overkill in my opinion.
I agree that Shockwave needs increased distance. In ME3 it was a bit more useful regardless, bc it can prime, detonate, and even lift if you upgrade it a certain way. In 2 it feels like Bioware ran out of ideas for Biotics and just threw Shockwave in.
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Post by helios969 on Nov 24, 2022 11:00:59 GMT
MEA had the best combat system but the enemies weren't varied enough and were tactically predictable. With the mobility provided it ended up being far too easy and only a few rare encounters were challenging. ME3 was the most fun and well put together system...good enemy variation with many more challenging encounters. ME2 encounters had the best ambience. For me lots of enemy variation with different challenges associated. I don't know if it's even possible but enemies that can "learn"...alter their tactics and attack patterns would be an awesome innovation.
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Post by larsdt on Nov 24, 2022 21:37:36 GMT
Maybe this is a bit of a tangent but I would really like some more dynamic environments.
Should it not be possible to design a level with some moving parts in this day and age? I'm tired of conveniently placed waist-high cover. How about some obstacles behaving at random, either creating a benefit or hazard for the player. Maybe they can be activated. Those familiar with ME3MP knows which hazard map I'm talking about.
There have been some half baked attempts at this but I would like to see a better implemetation. At least better than "wooden" crates bad cover, "metal" crates good cover in ME2. The barrels falling from the factory ceiling during Saeed's loyalty mission was a step in the right direction. Navigating the Reaper legs on Tuchanka in ME3 felt a bit gimmicky imho, a regression from the Thresher Maw level during Grunt's loyalty mission.
Last but not least, make sure every skill/power is applicable. What do I mean by this? Example: If you choose the Vanguard class in ME2, I'm guessing you want to use that cool charge mechanic. However, several enemies are placed out of reach and/or on different elevation. Once again, you're forced to sit behind waist-high cover shooting with a gun. The option simply isn't there with no option to play conservative/aggressive etc.
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 25, 2022 8:35:13 GMT
There's a few changes I'd like to make to ME's combat. - Please keep MEA's fluidity over ME3's clunkiness.
- Weapons and biotics should be completely separated from each other. Weapons alone should be able to win a battle without being reduced to mere primers for powers.
- Enemies should be able to sprint between covers instead of just walking around as if they know exactly what godawful bullet sponges they are. Enemies that can run and flank you are way more interesting than lumbering bricks.
- Enemy AI in general can do with a few iterations. It's just sad to see an enemy vault out of cover, take two steps to the right, shoot at you once and then walk back into the cover they just came out of.
- Special ammo types shouldn't be soldier "powers". Anyone can read the gun's manual and find the "incendiary" switch. Or load incendiary ammo. However that works in their messed up weapons lore.
- Enemies should be able to miss - depending on distance, visibility, veterancy and so on. The AI shouldn't be able to hit you with all pellets from their shotgun from the other side of the map.
That would be a start.
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Post by 10k on Nov 25, 2022 14:11:49 GMT
I think I have a few ideas. Some may be considered "a step back" but I think they add value. I'm interested in gameplay that is challenging and fits into lore.
1. Get rid of Nova or nerf it by actually giving it a cool down. Or give it to another class, give vanguard Annihilation field from Andromeda instead.
2. Bring back both shields and armor, but give them to enemies where it makes sense. If an enemy is wearing a hardsuit, I'm sorry they should have both shields and armor. It just makes sense. But if I'm fighting a husk, they should have neither given they are only flesh. Also enemy shields should regenerate like the player's.
3. Enemies should be able to use the same skills the player has access to. If they are a biotic they should be able to use devastating biotics. The only fun fights in the entire ME series, that I enjoyed, was Tela Vasir and Shep's clone. Everyone else were just trash mobs. Seeing Vasir use charge for the first time was the greatest moment in ME for me. It took me by surprise.
4. Bring back weapon weight from ME3. I think it's the best way to balance how many guns the protag can use VS how fast your cool downs for abilities will be. Personally, I did prefer ME2 approach. But I understand others may want to be able to play a assualt rifle wielding vanguard. Weapon weight is a good compromise which should make a return.
5. Bring back heavy weapons i.e the Arc projector nuff said on that.
6. Bring back classes. Andromeda killed classes and ignored the lore that gave reasons why there were classes, especially for biotics. SAM was stupid don't bring the thing back. Singularity was exclusive to adepts who used the L5X and Charge was exclusive to Vanguards who use L5n. It made sense
7. Sentinel should play how it did in ME2, They nerfed tech armor to the ground in ME3.
These are just a few things, but I'm sure I could think of more. Combat was just much more challenging in ME2 than any of the others. Primarily I just want the challenge back.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 27, 2022 4:03:48 GMT
Do people really think 3 had clunky gameplay? Andromeda's gameplay allows more freedom in a sense, sure, but it lacked focus.
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Post by NotN7 on Nov 27, 2022 6:46:08 GMT
I have been thinking about this for a while, Andromeda combat was Andromeda but the combat ME1-ME3 was not consistent all threes combat was totally different in each game, pick a combat style that carries over through all games.
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 27, 2022 10:36:36 GMT
Do people really think 3 had clunky gameplay? Andromeda's gameplay allows more freedom in a sense, sure, but it lacked focus. One of the clunkiest I ever played. It feels like trying to steer a freight truck in a world where every landscape feature is magnetic.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 27, 2022 12:08:10 GMT
Do people really think 3 had clunky gameplay? Andromeda's gameplay allows more freedom in a sense, sure, but it lacked focus. One of the clunkiest I ever played. It feels like trying to steer a freight truck in a world where every landscape feature is magnetic. Then try to play it in MP mode - one of the reasons that made me drop the game after 12 hours.
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Post by helios969 on Nov 27, 2022 12:44:26 GMT
I have been thinking about this for a while, Andromeda combat was Andromeda but the combat ME1-ME3 was not consistent all threes combat was totally different in each game, pick a combat style that carries over through all games. Feel the same. I think about games like Uncharted that fundamentally remain the same...with basic improvements to gameplay. Bioware wants to reinvent the wheel with every iteration...it's part of the reason development is so long. There's no reason that the follow up to Inquisition should have taken a decade. The gameplay and environments are still pretty good...if they'd leave well enough alone and focus on just story and role-playing we could get these games every few years. Kind of frustrating.
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Post by trinity0 on Nov 27, 2022 13:25:01 GMT
First i thought the MEA combat was an improvement and one of the only good thingy abour MEA. But after a while jumping around like a Flummi, really annoyed me
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Post by 10k on Nov 27, 2022 14:35:26 GMT
Do people really think 3 had clunky gameplay? Andromeda's gameplay allows more freedom in a sense, sure, but it lacked focus. ME3 was clunky, but personally I didn't like Andromeda's either. It felt too "floaty" and guns and powers lacked the same impact as they did in ME2 and 3. I challenge anyone to go back and shoot the guns in ME2 and 3 and use something like biotic charge, and get a feel for it. Then load up Andromeda and do the same thing. In all aspects, Andromeda's combat just feels a bit off.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 27, 2022 20:53:39 GMT
I play on console, so that might make a difference; I've also never played 3's MP. Having watched a number of Youtubers play ME3, I noticed many seem to walk in scenarios where I would sprint, or seem to even have trouble switching seamlessly. Maybe it's easier on console or just easier in general for some people. The only time 3 has felt clunky to me was with triggering animations like heavy melee in certain circumstances. Still, 3's combat isn't perfect by any means.
I agree re: Andromeda's combat.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 28, 2022 23:58:13 GMT
Do people really think 3 had clunky gameplay? Andromeda's gameplay allows more freedom in a sense, sure, but it lacked focus. ME3 was clunky, but personally I didn't like Andromeda's either. It felt too "floaty" and guns and powers lacked the same impact as they did in ME2 and 3. I challenge anyone to go back and shoot the guns in ME2 and 3 and use something like biotic charge, and get a feel for it. Then load up Andromeda and do the same thing. In all aspects, Andromeda's combat just feels a bit off. I never felt it was clunky, it felt grounded, more realistic maybe. It felt like how it feels to run, move etc in gear. It felt like you had inertia. I consider that a good thing. I'd prefer improvements on that line over MEA.
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Post by 10k on Nov 29, 2022 13:25:56 GMT
I never felt it was clunky, it felt grounded, more realistic maybe. It felt like how it feels to run, move etc in gear. It felt like you had inertia. I consider that a good thing. I'd prefer improvements on that line over MEA. I agree. Though it didn't feel as smooth as gears. I think they should go back and use ME3 combat, But they need to tweak it a lot. Like I said it did feel clunky, but every thing like powers and guns felt more "weighted" than Andromeda. Which was a good thing.
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Post by n7double07 on Nov 30, 2022 2:16:23 GMT
Andromeda reminds me of when devs try and innovate by centering their new game around a single gameplay gimmick, usually resulting in the core gameplay feeling neglected, copy-pasted, or even just downright subpar. In this case, it would be the thruster pack. The amount of abilities and variation in builds help it somewhat.
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