abedsbrother
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Post by abedsbrother on Nov 11, 2022 21:39:21 GMT
The fact that the Geth are alive indicates the Reapers are not dead. The Geth cannot survive the Destroy ending. If the Geth are alive, Destroy was not chosen, which means the Reapers also survived. Just because we saw dead Reapers last year doesn't mean ALL Reapers are dead.
(Just to be clear: this is where the facts / lore seems to point imo. Doesn't mean I like it.)
Only other option I can think of is that BioWare is actually going to take ending choices (red vs blue vs green) into account, in which case of course the promo material for ME5 could contain conflicts.
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bshep
N5
   
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Post by bshep on Nov 12, 2022 0:16:29 GMT
Don't believe it is going to be a black or white, one or the other situation here. They (Bioware) made a big point of showing the dead Reapers plus the damaged N7 armor symbol in the 2021 trailer while pointing out to Geth being alive in the newest N7day video from 2022.
As i said before, they do have a habit of making canon choices to follow up with the story for the Dragon Age series. I suppose the time has come for this also to be done in Mass Effect universe, if ME5 really takes place in the Milky Way post the ME Trilogy story.
There are way too many changes between each of the three endings of ME3 for Bioware to just ignore it. That is why i defend the hypothesis of them merging aspects of both Destroy and Control to create a unified story to move forward (confess don't know what they could grab from Synthesis).
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Nov 12, 2022 12:21:19 GMT
Don't believe it is going to be a black or white, one or the other situation here. They (Bioware) made a big point of showing the dead Reapers plus the damaged N7 armor symbol in the 2021 trailer while pointing out to Geth being alive in the newest N7day video from 2022. As i said before, they do have a habit of making canon choices to follow up with the story for the Dragon Age series. I suppose the time has come for this also to be done in Mass Effect universe, if ME5 really takes place in the Milky Way post the ME Trilogy story. There are way too many changes between each of the three endings of ME3 for Bioware to just ignore it. That is why i defend the hypothesis of them merging aspects of both Destroy and Control to create a unified story to move forward (confess don't know what they could grab from Synthesis).Members of the Cult of the Machine God(s) merging themselves with Reaper tech to reach ascensions. I might have merged something from Deus Ex with Mass Effect, but Cerberus was kind of already big with the idea, it's just that Tim believed he would be the one controlling the gods.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 12, 2022 16:21:17 GMT
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Post by ClarkKent on Nov 12, 2022 18:15:06 GMT
I mean it's a decent catch but I'm not sure it has any real significance.
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Antibaar
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Post by Antibaar on Nov 12, 2022 20:50:18 GMT
I have seen those lights from the begining.Looks that there are 2 ships cloaked approaching the MR7.Each ship has 4 tail lights.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Nov 12, 2022 21:02:41 GMT
I said it before, I don't think it's cloaked ships, to me it's looks like an image or another short video embedded inside the first one.
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bshep
N5
   
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Post by bshep on Nov 12, 2022 21:09:38 GMT
Don't believe it is going to be a black or white, one or the other situation here. They (Bioware) made a big point of showing the dead Reapers plus the damaged N7 armor symbol in the 2021 trailer while pointing out to Geth being alive in the newest N7day video from 2022. As i said before, they do have a habit of making canon choices to follow up with the story for the Dragon Age series. I suppose the time has come for this also to be done in Mass Effect universe, if ME5 really takes place in the Milky Way post the ME Trilogy story. There are way too many changes between each of the three endings of ME3 for Bioware to just ignore it. That is why i defend the hypothesis of them merging aspects of both Destroy and Control to create a unified story to move forward (confess don't know what they could grab from Synthesis).Members of the Cult of the Machine God(s) merging themselves with Reaper tech to reach ascensions. I might have merged something from Deus Ex with Mass Effect, but Cerberus was kind of already big with the idea, it's just that Tim believed he would be the one controlling the gods. Hehe I can totally imagine some crazies worshipping the Reapers now.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Nov 13, 2022 3:09:39 GMT
Don't believe it is going to be a black or white, one or the other situation here. They (Bioware) made a big point of showing the dead Reapers plus the damaged N7 armor symbol in the 2021 trailer while pointing out to Geth being alive in the newest N7day video from 2022. As i said before, they do have a habit of making canon choices to follow up with the story for the Dragon Age series. I suppose the time has come for this also to be done in Mass Effect universe, if ME5 really takes place in the Milky Way post the ME Trilogy story. There are way too many changes between each of the three endings of ME3 for Bioware to just ignore it. That is why i defend the hypothesis of them merging aspects of both Destroy and Control to create a unified story to move forward (confess don't know what they could grab from Synthesis). Not at all saying this will or must happen, but my older posts would sometimes describe something like: -Reapers and synthetics largely destroyed, whether from Destroy or a destructive effect since the war; this is the most impactful for the setting and would still make it *mostly* 'post-Destroy' -Reapers and synthetics present to some extent today, whether from Control or a re/constructive effort since the war -Merging with organics and synthetics being a present situation for at least some people, whether from Synthesis's future or a technological progressive movement since the war If the Reapers and synthetics are *mostly* not present due to some sort of conflict or disaster from one, then there's some respect given to Destroy. If the Reapers and/or synthetics present are more uh, involved with the Milky Way society instead of lurking or hiding, then there's some respect given to Control. If the Reapers and/or synthetics are directly integrated into at least some organics in what is at least arguably a symbiotic relationship (correct view or not) instead of obviously horrific, then there's some respect to Synthesis. But Destroy cannot have its full effect, because the 'problem' was always going to arise again, and now its happening surprisingly early compared to expectations. The Reapers are back because their corpses may always leave some legacy behind. The Geth are back because their technology can be rebuilt. Time can pass and give relations (narratively) a partial reset anyway. And Control cannot have its full effect, because well, something goes awry even with the best benevolent intentions, and this something has taken us at least temporarily down more than a peg. Even if there was a past relationship with synthetics, it can still go to crap and make a still largely-organic-ruled society afterwards, just one that better comprehends interactions with synthetics that isn't universally combative (we'll always have EDI on record, but even besides, there can be post-ME3 stories of more positive relations post-war and without dark Reaper interference). And Synthesis cannot have its full effect, because perhaps something internal and/or external to the galaxy would break whatever equilibrium was initially intended for the galaxy's status. Something that wouldn't fit any good predictive models, so it'd utterly MESS everyone up for a while, breaking up the union that might have temporarily existed before, even though it'd leave its transcendent legacy behind or even if it didn't happen, people were 'going to start doing this stuff anyway' (see: MEA's SAM, which in my opinion was there to start proposing this inevitability even though the Reapers' would've never trusted its eternal success) And if the writing was tight enough, emphasis on certain historical changes can differ based on what was done with the Crucible. That it was a drastic move, a big and bad choice that had an effect for at least years or decades, but other things happened and even other major events created other effects regardless. (the most IT-like approaches could just go 'it was all a vision simulation given to a dying Shepard about what the galaxy may be heading towards based on current information' but I'm just talking about everything being a literal and clear ME3 ending)
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Post by SwobyJ on Nov 13, 2022 3:25:02 GMT
cont.
In the end, if enough time passes (at least decades but maybe centuries), we can have a galaxy that is fulla Reaper corpses and mostly still populated with real deal organics, but synthetics are more of an active and non-isolated phenomenon than before, people have moved forward on progressive interactions with AI that may include merges with them but not everyone exists this way (or even most don't). Earth can be rebuilt to whatever capacity and it won't matter so much the pace and nature of it. Reaper past-presence can range from just being the monsters(?) that got busted to being bizarre partners in a brief(?) utopia(?), but they all got whomped at some point.
Its up the writers to make everything shift around to this desired mostly-unified outcome.
THEORETICALLY.
Or there can be something else entirely going on. But I'm just saying, just sayinnnggg, in my opinion, if enough time is given in a timeline, most things can be unified even if it doesn't make many players 100% happy with it.
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Post by SwobyJ on Nov 13, 2022 3:43:08 GMT
Here's one thing that bothers me from the Liara clip: why would the Council be overly familiar with human defiance? The only faction that is actively "defied" throughout the trilogy is the Reapers. Here's another thing: The Geth are alive. Therefore Destroy is not canon. I have seen it said that the "red space magic" might only target Reapers, not other AIs, but iirc the Geth only survive if Legion completes the Reaper code upload. Whether they then wipe out the Quarians or make peace with them, the Reaper code is uploaded. They would be wiped out by Destroy. Destroy is not canon. Which means the Reapers, as a consciousness at least, have survived. (Incidentally, as indicated by the ship captain's name in the lower-left corner of the relay picture, the Quarians are also alive. Which means peace between the Geth & Quarians is canon, and the Reaper code upload to the Geth was allowed to complete.) Therefore, either Synthesis or Control is canon. The Reapers will be present in ME5. Perhaps they, in the form of the enhanced Starchild (now melded with Shepard's consciousness), are meddling with the Council. That would be why they (the Council) should be well-acquainted with "human defiance." There's a possibility that this next Mass Effect tries less to fit into some action packed trilogy format, and instead tries to more naturally fulfill things like: the initial design documents for ME1/SFX, the assumed setup from much of ME1, and all sorts of nice ideas that just couldn't be budgeted or creatively afforded for ME2-ME3 or even the final product of ME1. Easier to do this, than things like start from a nearly clear slate, or get mired too much in post-ME3 consequences, or try too hard to tie too much to MEA (they may do all three to some extent, but just saying). Oneeeee of those things, could be the Citadel and Council more obviously affected by brainwashing signals, and the human Alliance/others being more actively a thorn in the Council's side. IMO Mass Effect was going to go more into a 'how do we handle these insidious machines with creepy techniques before they finally arrive to mass wipe us out' more than 'lets shooty shoot the giant Terminator Baby for reasons then cry over one Earth child' but eh, Rule of Cool! Dunno how on board I am with that, but cool to think about! A compromised galactic government that would otherwise be more fine and friendly than ever, and a humanity that should be doing comfortably by now but actually has a 'rebellious' hidden part that is trying to shake up this really creepy and potentially disastrous status quo (lead to Return Of Tha Reapers or whatever else bigger thing is going on). Now I'm fanficcing a Milky Way that's been quietly subdued by an Indoctrination-offshoot effect and the only resistance left is trying to build and escape through a neo-Relay to Andromeda to fetch unaffected allies  . I don't think its happening. Its fun to imagine.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 13, 2022 5:29:36 GMT
There are way too many changes between each of the three endings of ME3 for Bioware to just ignore it. That is why i defend the hypothesis of them merging aspects of both Destroy and Control to create a unified story to move forward (confess don't know what they could grab from Synthesis). I can see a way. Synthetics gained "organic" properties but organics were unchanged. Essentially, no synthetic entities would exist. Until the next round was created. This would make EDI and the geth into living beings. Not sure of the benefit to them but there it is.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 13, 2022 5:32:20 GMT
I can totally imagine some crazies worshipping the Reapers now.  I actually can imagine it. I've wondered if indoctrinated beings might still follow pre-existing commands. So even with the Reapers dead they'd try to sabotage governments, organizations, technological advancements, etc. I would actually love to see this sort of thing happen.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 13, 2022 12:21:06 GMT
I can totally imagine some crazies worshipping the Reapers now.  I actually can imagine it. I've wondered if indoctrinated beings might still follow pre-existing commands. So even with the Reapers dead they'd try to sabotage governments, organizations, technological advancements, etc. I would actually love to see this sort of thing happen. I would capture a few of the nutjobs to study to help against the possibility of becoming indoctrinated when studying the dead reapers. I would also use them for target practice for new recruits who want to join the military.
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