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Post by dazk on Mar 4, 2020 22:33:56 GMT
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Post by dazk on Mar 4, 2020 22:35:31 GMT
I just finished reading book 7 Now, the next story arc of the books should provide for 2-3 seasons of the show and the final three books will be another. I don’t think this is a real spoiler, but... There is a 30 year time skip after the next story arc, before what looks like the final story arc of the series.
This is probably presumptive, but assuming the show gets that far: how do you think the show will handle such a big time jump despite featuring the same characters Lots of make-up????? Truthfully it'll be a hard act to pull off I think but while I can't think of an example I am sure it's been done well before.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 4, 2020 23:00:41 GMT
BTW, I'm sorry if I sounded a little pedantic there. Just wasn't sure we were talking about the same thing, so I figured it's better to explain what I mean. You know, forums.
Just started the second book. Finally, Bobby and Prax are on the scene. Still waiting for Avasarala though. I really missed her in the first book.
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Post by dazk on Mar 5, 2020 0:21:50 GMT
BTW, I'm sorry if I sounded a little pedantic there. Just wasn't sure we were talking about the same thing, so I figured it's better to explain what I mean. You know, forums.
Just started the second book. Finally, Bobby and Prax are on the scene. Still waiting for Avasarala though. I really missed her in the first book.
No worries semantics are important if that is the right word and I enjoy discussing and hearing other peoples interpretations. Bobbie is great in the books, I hope you enjoy book Bobbie, I think she is a fair bit different particularly later on in the series. Prax is good too, I wish he could have become a crew member as I really thought they were setting him up for that at one stage. Avasarala is one of my faves, she bursts onto the scene in the books which is kind of great but that they introduced her early for the show I thought was one of the better moves in the series.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 28, 2020 19:26:10 GMT
Ok, I finished book 4 the other day and am now probably about a third into book 5. In short, book 4 is the first book that is much better than the tv show season. Spoiler alert! The main reason why the book is so much better is because the point of view of the reader is so much more balanced than in the tv show. In the show, yes, we see the RCE shuttle blow up in the beginning but we only see it from the perspective of those on board and we don't really know that well what happened. In the book, we follow the "squatters" around, actually setting up the bombs and we hear from those people that do want the attack (like Coop). Also, the RCE brass doesn't really come down to the planet (in the form of Murtry) until after the belters kill an entire security squad in an ambush and the RCE people basically have no more security down there and the one remaining officer is scared out of her wits. Murtry is still a psychopathic asshole but in the book, the overall RCE response seems much more on point than in the show, where the guy seems to just start shooting. Also, Havelock's perspective as a more or less good-guy RCE officer is sorely missing in the show. I get that they had to streamline the Ilus plot a little in the show since they also had to keep the Sol system plot alive (probably mostly for the cast) but the fact that so much of a the grey areas between the squatters and RCE gets lost in the show is a real shame. The other perspective that I am really missing in the series is Basia's. He has so many heartwarming and some genuinely funny scenes (especially since he keeps misunderstanding the motives and viewpoints of the Roci's crew). He was a delight in the book. The one thing that the tv show did better than the book here was when Amos completely freaks out when he goes blind. I thought that fit his character (as I interpret it at least) very well and put his character a little more into focus (no pun intended). That was a bit of a missed opportunity in the books where he just seems to take it all in stride. On a different note, which is kinda independent from the tv show, there are a whole bunch of fantastic moments in the book and some where I literally laughed out loud (e.g. when Elvi tells Holden that "he is special" because of his eyes but Holden completely misunderstands, well or rather, he was right, just too late ). The best one is the final epilogue with Avasarala where we learn that our heroes - who managed the impossible, made peace, saved the colony and kept Ilus somewhat viable despite everything - yet again completely fucked things up for her (to use her vernacular ). This is covered a lot in the tv show actually but as a punchline at the end of the book, it's hilarious. Anyway, I am already loving book 5 so far. It's a real hoot and I think breaking up the crew for a while was a great decision and desperately needed. It really allows the individual characters to shine (especially Alex needed some time in the spotlight) and so far all their little stories are awesome. Usually when I have these kinds of parallel plotlines in a book, I have a favorite but here so far, I am super excited to get back to any of the characters and see where they'll make progress next. Some of this stuff was already covered quite a bit in season 4 of the tv show, I am really curious how they will approach season 5 now. My guess is that they'll deviate a little more from the books from now on (as they already started down that road in S4).
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Post by dazk on May 29, 2020 2:24:14 GMT
Hi AnDromedary I totally agree with your post re book 4 it was always my favourite but the series disappointed me for all the reasons you so eloquently stated. Are you planning on reading the Novellas? If so here is the list of books with the Novellas inserted where they are most relevant: The Expanse #1: Leviathan Wakes (June 2, 2011) "The Butcher of Anderson Station: A Story of The Expanse" (Oct 17, 2011) The Expanse #2: Caliban's War (June 26, 2012) "Gods of Risk: An Expanse Novella" (Sept 15, 2012) "Drive" (Nov 27, 2012)The Expanse #3: Abaddon's Gate (June 4, 2013) "The Churn: An Expanse Novella" (April 29, 2014) The Expanse #4: Cibola Burn (June 5, 2014) The Expanse #5: Nemesis Games (June 2, 2015) "The Vital Abyss: An Expanse Novella" (Oct 15, 2015) The Expanse #6: Babylon's Ashes (Dec 6, 2016) The Expanse #7: Persepolis Rising (June 2017, TBA)
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Post by AnDromedary on May 29, 2020 16:59:19 GMT
dazk : Yea, I remembered you already mentioned a lot of this back when we talked about S4. As for the novellas, no, I don't have them yet. Was planning to read them after I am through with the main books. But thanks for the list, I didn't realize that they had places where they'd fit best. Though from what I understand, they are all character backstories. So none of them take place between the books chronologically, right?
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Post by dazk on May 29, 2020 23:57:26 GMT
dazk : Yea, I remembered you already mentioned a lot of this back when we talked about S4. As for the novellas, no, I don't have them yet. Was planning to read them after I am through with the main books. But thanks for the list, I didn't realize that they had places where they'd fit best. Though from what I understand, they are all character backstories. So none of them take place between the books chronologically, right? Yeah it's not necessary to read them where they are placed, I just would have liked to as it fleshed out some plot details and characters. I read them all in a row after I finished the last one that ha been released.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 3, 2020 20:16:20 GMT
HOLY SHIT!!!! I just got to THAT point in book 5. Season 5 of the tv show will be a friggin' jaw dropper. I am hyped!
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Post by dazk on Jun 4, 2020 1:16:49 GMT
HOLY SHIT!!!! I just got to THAT point in book 5. Season 5 of the tv show will be a friggin' jaw dropper. I am hyped! Yeah it's pretty momentous hey!!!!!
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 5, 2020 18:17:58 GMT
HOLY SHIT!!!! I just got to THAT point in book 5. Season 5 of the tv show will be a friggin' jaw dropper. I am hyped! Yeah it's pretty momentous hey!!!!! I was asked by a someone a few months ago who had seen season 1 of the tv series if there is a lot of character development or if the series just keeps floating on.
I told him back then that there is not only character development but that the whole scenario shifts in such a way that if you were to skip from season 1 to season 4, you might think it's a completely different universe. Back then, I was of course thinking about the gates and us having access to other stars and such. But yea, another paradigm shift is denfinitely incoming. I am super curious how they'll depict all of what happens visually in the show. I expect great things from you Amazon. Time to throw some money at the show Jeff!
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Post by dazk on Jun 6, 2020 2:41:35 GMT
Yeah it's pretty momentous hey!!!!! I was asked by a someone a few months ago who had seen season 1 of the tv series if there is a lot of character development or if the series just keeps floating on.
I told him back then that there is not only character development but that the whole scenario shifts in such a way that if you were to skip from season 1 to season 4, you might think it's a completely different universe. Back then, I was of course thinking about the gates and us having access to other stars and such. But yea, another paradigm shift is denfinitely incoming. I am super curious how they'll depict all of what happens visually in the show. I expect great things from you Amazon. Time to throw some money at the show Jeff!
It's pretty amazing how the writers of the book are able to so effectively take the reader and the characters to a complete change of focus and still make it consistent and true to their characters and to the overall story without it being just plain ridiculous. Another change is coming in book 7, I am not a wordsmith and not sure if it is a paradigm shift but it's a different focus that starts in book 6 I think and evolves towards the end game in book 7. Like you I really hope the show's writers/producers and directors don't stuff it up. It will be really interesting when they get to book 7.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 6, 2020 18:38:24 GMT
I was asked by a someone a few months ago who had seen season 1 of the tv series if there is a lot of character development or if the series just keeps floating on. I told him back then that there is not only character development but that the whole scenario shifts in such a way that if you were to skip from season 1 to season 4, you might think it's a completely different universe. Back then, I was of course thinking about the gates and us having access to other stars and such. But yea, another paradigm shift is denfinitely incoming. I am super curious how they'll depict all of what happens visually in the show. I expect great things from you Amazon. Time to throw some money at the show Jeff!
It's pretty amazing how the writers of the book are able to so effectively take the reader and the characters to a complete change of focus and still make it consistent and true to their characters and to the overall story without it being just plain ridiculous. This is the amazing thing to me. Some of the stuff that does happen seems completely ridiculous on its own but they manage to provide context wehre it makes sense. I truly like how the asteroid strike against earth is explained. The belters, even the most violent and radical terrorist factions pretty much always had the ability to do this. But they couldn't do it because Earth was still necessary to keep everyone in the system alive. A devastated Earth would have absolutely resulted in a devastated belt. Too many supplies are still provided by Earth. It was the opening of the gates and the prospect of alternative earth-like planets that preceded the attack and made the attack strategically viable - maybe even inevitable. At the same time Mars' terraforming project became somewhat obsolete and the sudden hopelessness that took hold of the Martians caused the spike in the black marked, which provided the terrorists with the military equipment that they needed. It's just a brilliant setup where a lot logical puzzle pieces which were set up over many books and storylines fit together now to make an insane situation absolutely believable. When the strike happened, I read it and just thought "of course it happened". That's great long term story telling right there. I also love how the main characters were subtly placed to provide all the perspectives with Holden in the belt, Amos on Earth, Alex and Bobby with the Martians and Naomi being held by the terrorists. Genius. In conclusion, I am only half way through but so far book 5 is my favorite. I love how it's split apart but still fits together perfectly.
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Post by dazk on Jun 7, 2020 1:43:38 GMT
It's pretty amazing how the writers of the book are able to so effectively take the reader and the characters to a complete change of focus and still make it consistent and true to their characters and to the overall story without it being just plain ridiculous. This is the amazing thing to me. Some of the stuff that does happen seems completely ridiculous on its own but they manage to provide context wehre it makes sense. I truly like how the asteroid strike against earth is explained. The belters, even the most violent and radical terrorist factions pretty much always had the ability to do this. But they couldn't do it because Earth was still necessary to keep everyone in the system alive. A devastated Earth would have absolutely resulted in a devastated belt. Too many supplies are still provided by Earth. It was the opening of the gates and the prospect of alternative earth-like planets that preceded the attack and made the attack strategically viable - maybe even inevitable. At the same time Mars' terraforming project became somewhat obsolete and the sudden hopelessness that took hold of the Martians caused the spike in the black marked, which provided the terrorists with the military equipment that they needed. It's just a brilliant setup where a lot logical puzzle pieces which were set up over many books and storylines fit together now to make an insane situation absolutely believable. When the strike happened, I read it and just thought "of course it happened". That's great long term story telling right there. I also love how the main characters were subtly placed to provide all the perspectives with Holden in the belt, Amos on Earth, Alex and Bobby with the Martians and Naomi being held by the terrorists. Genius. In conclusion, I am only half way through but so far book 5 is my favorite. I love how it's split apart but still fits together perfectly. When the strike happened, I read it and just thought "of course it happened". That's great long term story telling right there.
I also love how the main characters were subtly placed to provide all the perspectives with Holden in the belt, Amos on Earth, Alex and Bobby with the Martians and Naomi being held by the terrorists. Agree with your comments about the writing especially the above bit completely and "Genius" pretty much sums it up. I didn't enjoy book 5 as much as the others as I don't really like the Inaros characters, they feel bit stereotype and forced to me but yes the plotline is great. I keep meaning to re-read book 5 as that and book 6 are a bit of a blur to me and I want to refresh my memory before the new season is released. Just trying to finish a terrible set of books I am reading, I thought they were a 5 part series but they turned out to be 5 short novels. Each novel has gotten progressively worse, they have a good story idea but characters and events are lame with writing that focuses too much on the minutiae.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2020 19:39:14 GMT
Alright, finished book 5 and am on to book 6. Really loved book 5. Great story, great pacing, great character moments. dazk : I don't mind the Inaros characters so far. Granted, they are very cliche but honestly, the villains are not necessarily always the best in he Expanse. They all tend to be a little over the top psychopaths or sociopaths or such. So they are all ok but I haven't seen a really great villain yet, the antagonists are just not the strongest aspect of the series to me so far. I think despite being the very centre of the story, the Inaros dudes don't really show up that much. And when they do, it's usually in Naomi's segments which I thought were very cool because we get all these insights into her inner thoughts and her psyche. I thought her dance on the brink of hope and despair was pretty cool. When she spaces herself an she kinda half does it to escape but would be kinda fine if it turned out as sa suicide as well, that was cool (especial when Cyn is then also in the airlock, I really felt bad for Cyn). Naomi's relationship to her son is also very interesting i think (which of course plays into the whole thing). So yea, no complaints there so far but I'll have to wait and see how they develop in book 6 now. Philip for one has a lot of potential though. If I have one complaint about book 5 is that they did stretch the believability of the space stunts a little. I am still not sold on someone spending 30 seconds in hard vacuum and getting away with it in the way Naomi did. Pretty sure her eyes and ears should be completely messed up at the very least after that little EVA activity there. Also, I had a blast in the end, when Amos takes on Clasrissa as an apprentice. How cool is that? The Roci did need a bit more crew. I do hope her and maybe Bobby will be permanent additions to the crew now? Avasarala remains my favorite character overall. Her video message to Bobby where she just casually insults everyone on the Razorback, including the Martian Prime Minister despite knowing that he'll hear it and she kinda asks them all to betray Mars 'cause it's not really betraying Mars is fantastic. In general, any dialogue she's in is bound to be hilarious and that goes double for her interaction with Amos ("I get suspicious when Holden sends his hired killer to Earth." - "I'm just his mechanic but wait, you think of me as a hired killer? That's awesome!" ) Just a fantastic book in a fantastic series. Really cannot wait for season 5 now.
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Post by dazk on Jun 13, 2020 2:57:13 GMT
Alright, finished book 5 and am on to book 6. Really loved book 5. Great story, great pacing, great character moments. dazk : I don't mind the Inaros characters so far. Granted, they are very cliche but honestly, the villains are not necessarily always the best in he Expanse. They all tend to be a little over the top psychopaths or sociopaths or such. So they are all ok but I haven't seen a really great villain yet, the antagonists are just not the strongest aspect of the series to me so far. I think despite being the very centre of the story, the Inaros dudes don't really show up that much. And when they do, it's usually in Naomi's segments which I thought were very cool because we get all these insights into her inner thoughts and her psyche. I thought her dance on the brink of hope and despair was pretty cool. When she spaces herself an she kinda half does it to escape but would be kinda fine if it turned out as sa suicide as well, that was cool (especial when Cyn is then also in the airlock, I really felt bad for Cyn). Naomi's relationship to her son is also very interesting i think (which of course plays into the whole thing). So yea, no complaints there so far but I'll have to wait and see how they develop in book 6 now. Philip for one has a lot of potential though. If I have one complaint about book 5 is that they did stretch the believability of the space stunts a little. I am still not sold on someone spending 30 seconds in hard vacuum and getting away with it in the way Naomi did. Pretty sure her eyes and ears should be completely messed up at the very least after that little EVA activity there. Also, I had a blast in the end, when Amos takes on Clasrissa as an apprentice. How cool is that? The Roci did need a bit more crew. I do hope her and maybe Bobby will be permanent additions to the crew now? Avasarala remains my favorite character overall. Her video message to Bobby where she just casually insults everyone on the Razorback, including the Martian Prime Minister despite knowing that he'll hear it and she kinda asks them all to betray Mars 'cause it's not really betraying Mars is fantastic. In general, any dialogue she's in is bound to be hilarious and that goes double for her interaction with Amos ("I get suspicious when Holden sends his hired killer to Earth." - "I'm just his mechanic but wait, you think of me as a hired killer? That's awesome!" ) Just a fantastic book in a fantastic series. Really cannot wait for season 5 now. I will start re-reading book 5 in the next couple of days, maybe a new read will change my thoughts/memories re Marcos and Phillip as I don't have a great memory of it and 6. Avarsarala and Amos's relationship is great and bizarre as is Amos and Clarissa's but in a different way and I think you are in with maybe a surprise re Clarissa going forward Amos really is my favourite character, he just gets better and better as the books progress. I hope they include as much of the books and the Novella's as possible and to that point I wish they'd make longer episodes or make the series longer.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 22, 2020 21:35:04 GMT
Pretty cool video. I think it would be hard to get any nerdier than that about this subject.
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Post by dazk on Jun 22, 2020 23:53:56 GMT
Hey Andromedary, I don't normally watch that stuff because while I find it interesting it spoils the "magic". It was a good watch though.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 26, 2020 17:34:21 GMT
Book 6 is done. Also rewatched season 4 now that I read the books. I actually didn't realize how much of book 5 is already in season 4. I am pretty sure season 5 will handle both the rest of book 5 and book 6 in one season. Shouldn't be too hard to do and would make sense since the two books are basically one continuous story. Now started book 7. First sentence: Three decades have passed. Curious how/if they will visualize this with the characters in the tv show.
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Post by dazk on Jun 27, 2020 1:05:06 GMT
Book 6 is done. Also rewatched season 4 now that I read the books. I actually didn't realize how much of book 5 is already in season 4. I am pretty sure season 5 will handle both the rest of book 5 and book 6 in one season. Shouldn't be too hard to do and would make sense since the two books are basically one continuous story. Now started book 7. First sentece: Three decades have passed. Curious how/if they will visualize this with the characters in the tv show. I have finished book 5 (again) and half way through book 6, your comment makes me think I need to watch season 4 again!!!! Book five is good and more intense that book 6 which I think is the weakest book of all of them but it's still not bad. I like that we get to see more personal and different sides of the characters in particular Holden/Naomi/Amos/Alex and others. The story however seems to be just a preface to book 7 though. Re your spoiler, I was like WTF when I read that, it's a good book but I really wish they'd found some way to use the Protomolecule mumbo jumbo to accelerate what happens rather than "Three decades later"
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Post by dazk on Jun 28, 2020 4:20:27 GMT
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 28, 2020 15:25:08 GMT
Oh shit. That would seriously suck. Well. nothing to do for now other than wait and see what the investigation will reveal.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 30, 2020 15:39:08 GMT
Not sure about it being delayed, or at least publicly delayed. Depending on status, Cas could be given anywhere from nothing in that season, to only what is contractually necessary, to given the whole thing because its already the done deal.
However, I can see the Alex character downplayed, replaced, shelved in the future. Or even that they're editing down his role in Season 5 before it airs.
There's only so much public evidence (to my knowledge) of the least of allegations, all of which indicate him as an aggressive sex pest who desires young groupies, none of that is criminal but its not respectable. So its a more internal matter to clean up the set, rather than handle more publicly and harshly (until now, that is). Its particularly important that *something* is done though, because The Expanse's production has prided itself on equality, fairness, and safety.
But there's more serious allegations that just need that formal investigation that so many, including cast members, are publicly anticipating. To my limited knowledge of what's being talked about, there's nothing in the public that actually substantiates the bigger claims. *Contributes* to them, oh absolutely. There's already a ton out there that easily makes the narrative of 'well, I wouldn't be surprised...' to things. But I think bigger consequences will depend on bigger proofs. Being a creep to barely-legal women because you're high on narcissism from acting in and 'saving'(?) an expensively produced tv show is indeed one gross thing, its another thing to be guilty of criminal harassment and assault.
I don't get how this necessarily means to people that The Expanse is done. They're very likely to air Season 5, and not going to waste all that production for something that, while major, is relatively minor. Is this Steven Strait? No. Is this Wes Chatham? No. Is this an exposure of criminally toxic work environment on set of this show? No. Its a near-secondary (I know not actually, but kinda for the show) character being played by an actor primarily publicly known not for his character but his active PR for pushing future seasons. That speaks to me more of a 'Yes he was involved in a lot for us and we appreciate that, but we cannot abide by X' more than 'We cannot let this show continue in light of X'.
I won't be surprised to see Bobbi and/or other characters, from the books or totally new, piloting the Roci later. If the all - rightly or wrongly - eventually 'blows over', maybe Cas still has something of a job here, but I doubt it'd be for more than what the plot more strictly requires, and that probably means at least less money for him. If it all - probably rightly in this case - eventually 'blows up', he's gone and the show is potentially in trouble, I just don't think it necessarily is.
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Post by dazk on Jun 30, 2020 23:43:29 GMT
The allegations (of which there seem many) seem to be being taken seriously by the actors, both Dominic Tipper and Wes Chatham have come out and commented on the issue saying "if" it is true they thoroughly support the women coming forward.
My concern about it being delayed is that Alex has a slightly larger role in book 5 as the book focuses a lot on all the individual crew members. If they decide to re-do Alex's scenes with another actor that will take a fair bit of time I'd think.
Going forward it'd be easier for them to just replace the actor rather than re-write the story I think.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jul 6, 2020 2:29:57 GMT
I just wanted to tie myself to this topic and say this is a goddamn awesome show. I don't think I'll be discussing after a while since I'm in the middle of Season 2... but boy, what a goddamn amazing show this is. What the fuck was the Picard show even doing ? I don't care anymore !
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