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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 16, 2017 8:10:55 GMT
Reading some comments over at Steam. I don't understand the negative aspects (about the protag) of some posts. It's unnecessary, unprogressive, nitpicking and ridiculous. The story and chars are what matters. Anyway, enjoying the game and taking my time with it; carefully exploring all corners and further understanding the powers. One of it is exactly like Far Reach / Blink albeit with a shorter reach. Much shorter but it is augmented by impersonation. Unprogressive as of what? Billie being called a token? I for one don't much care, as in my run of the game both her an Daud died, so I'm rather underwhelmed about the direction they went with this DLC. Nope, nothing with being a token. I'd rather not use the word; it's repugnant. I'm not discussing this aspect further; I'm just *shaking my head and speaking aloud*. Not having finished the game, I have no opinion of the story at the moment.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 18, 2017 8:10:12 GMT
Finished chapter two. I'm enjoying the game so far though I'm split on the additional side missions called contracts.
I've had qualms about raising the sword to certain people but considering Billy's background, would she have hesitated? I think not but as seen in Dishonored II, she regretted the decisions that were made. She would have become more discerning. I chose to bypass a side mission as it does not offer a better explanation / insight on the target.
Despite the wrong decision Daud made in killing Emily's mother, she doesn't question his present target. She supports it. Perhaps she too, sees the Outsider as a malignant force, having seen and experienced the results of the powers he bestowed. The ill effects of the cults that worship him.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Sept 20, 2017 14:11:52 GMT
Welp, Death of the Outsider continues the franchise's dubious duality between sequels and dlc/expansions. If Dishonored 2 was Operation: Repeat the DLC, while giving us a cool new protagonist, set of powers and gameplay improvements, this expansion is Operation: Ruin the Point of the DLC (and also the franchise, in a subtle way) while giving us a cool new protagonist, set of powers and gameplay improvements. So it's weirdly consistent. The biggest disappointment by far is the ruination of Daud's character. I had my doubts from the trailer, but I was still holding out hope it wouldn't be played this straight. Why do people like Daud? Is it just his being voiced by Michael Madsen? I would think it's because what the character represents, a dark counterpart to Corvo, while at the same time a much starker expression of the main theme of the franchise, which is choice and consenquences. Do we all remember the man who said this:
and
That's a little different from the tune these days: "waah, the outsider did it", isn't it? Even the slight tweak of "there shouldn't be someone giving out these powers" is disingenuous to previous themes. Is Daud really only defined by his powers? Has no one in the history of that world assassinated a world leader or accomplished something equally world changing without magic? What would Sokolov say about that? Should he or the guy who came up with whale oil be solely blamed for all the bad shit it may have been used for? Yes we might judge inventors (or they may judge themselves) for the negative reprecussions of their work, but not to the point of murder and the absolute cessation of the work. Since this world has both, the parallels are clear. Magic and science were both used for good and bad, except now we have to say "fuck the former, forever".
Then there's the issue of the Outsider himself. I didn't like the voice change between games, I didn't like the revelation of an origin because as soon as you have a beginning, you can have an end. And lo and behold, here it is. The Outsider was unique to the lore, even if others came before him and there are hints (not sure if in-game or just dev talk) that others will follow. Why remove him? Is there really nothing else we could've done? This is the story you tell when you're done with this world, not when you want to continue. I kept hoping for a Kill and Replace at worst, but this... even sparing him is just sad. I can just imagine him getting shanked in an alley like half an hour later or roughed up a little too much by a guard. Yeah, real fitting. Oh and I guess Emily and Corvo are now depowered too, because fuck them also, right? Billie Lurk was the best part of the DLC all around. She made the absolute best of a shitty setup, and gameplay of course was further streamlined and optimized. Telefragging was awesome. They should've done the full regen from the start. Although it would've been nice to still have the passive powers. Having them as black bonecharms overtaxed that system.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 21, 2017 7:30:41 GMT
Just putting impressions as I moved to the next chapter. Breaking into the vault. The dialogue with Daud during the briefing left me He talked of the Outsider bestowing his powers and made it sound as if the recipients didn't have a choice. Unlike Billy, who truly does not, I'm pretty sure the others did have a choice. Since Daud chose to take it, it was his decision. His desires and decisions dictated what he did. Now he regretted it and blamed everything on the Outsider? Finished chapter three Daud died. Of 'natural causes', far as I could tell. He blamed it on the Mark, blamed it on the Void, blamed the Outsider, they were taking his life away. They were the cause of his fading away, the lost of control, the crazy things the cults were doing. The Outsider must go.
Everything said about him pointed to a hard dangerous life. No doubt before he had the Mark, he was running a lot of risky gigs that brought him to the Outsider's attention. When he got the Mark, all bets are off; he'd likely pare the edge of the knife. No one could live so many years in that kind of profession without suffering stress and serious injuries. So now he's reaping the results of that life and dying because of it.
So, was he right to want the Outsider gone? Well, yes. Many know of the power the Outsider could give and hanker for it. They resort to all kinds of murderous crimes and methods to try to get what they do not have, creating persistent chaos and social instability above the norm. The Outsider knows but does nothing to stop it.
In the conversation with Billy, the Outsider chooses to return the knife to her. At this point, I have no idea why except perhaps he wants to be ended. Or perhaps he is acting on some unknown plan.
Maybe chapter four will give more clues.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Oct 2, 2017 16:02:03 GMT
Interesting. The Outsider is not a god. He has no control over the path of the world outside the Void. The cult created the Outsider to have access to the Void and the power. Without the Outsider, there is no gateway / conduit / no controller. Anyone who could tap the Void could use the power in there. At present, I guess there're a few. Billy is one since she did not lose that eye or the arm. Corvo / Emily plus maybe a few others we don't know about.
With no Outsider, there would be fewer to bear the Mark. Users would taper off. There would be fewer to zero Void users as time goes on. This would mean the creed of the Overseers would become pointless but could be turned to another purpose if they realised the Outsider is gone. No doubt there would still be many people thinking the Outsider still exist.
Would what remained of the Cult create another Outsider? There had been others before the present one. Did they die off eventually or perhaps killed by other users in the past? Is this a cycle that would be repeated?
The Outsider wanted to be removed from the Void. He did not try to stop Billy. If he had wanted it, why did he not ask prospective candidates for the Mark before? Daud? Corvo? Emily? Others in the past? Perhaps he couldn't. He could bestow powers, he could observe but he could not do anything else.
I can't say I'm taken with Daud. From beginning to end, he kept blaming the Outsider. I can only suppose old age, regrets piled up on him. He went into the blame stage and went on blaming other people than putting it at his own feet. He chose to do what he did. It's on him. Not the Outsider.
The devs said the DLC was to wrap up the story around Emily, Corvo, Daud and Billy Lurk. I guess that meant if there's a Dishonored III, it will be different chars, another time line.
Dang. I would so like to have more stories on Emily.
I definitely want to see where it will go if there's a Dishonored III.
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Post by CHRrOME on Oct 4, 2017 2:51:52 GMT
Finished D2 about a week ago. Fantastic game, sad about the shitty PC port though, fortunately I found a workaround ...ish on my end to be able to play with relative decency. As usual the visuals are outstanding (not so much the graphics, as the game has its own style, but the world as a whole), and just the lore behind the game is something I really enjoy. Some of the quest designs were very outside the box too.
Anyways, very good game, I'm actually playing Prey right now, another spectacular title, I think I haven't played such a good and just different game since Witcher 3, goddamn. Arkane is now one of my favorite companies in the industry. Will try Death of the Outsider once Dishonored 2 kinda wears off of me, I pretty much only played D2 for weeks so I'd rather don't get back at it so soon.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 1, 2018 20:53:51 GMT
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 1, 2018 23:32:52 GMT
I don't know. I loved the game and the DLC, although the DLC was a bit less enjoyable for me due to admittedly being a bit repetitive. However the idea and the plot was interesting, I think. Definitely spices things up in the Dishonored universe now for future games. I heard most people liked the game, but Arkane still are short in sales, which is a shame IMO. Not many games like this one, and at least it tries to do something different. Sure, 2 is "more of the same" but the first game wasn't bad to begin with, and it's not like they released the 15th game like other companies, following the same formula over and over again. And in this game we can find one of the best level designs ever seen in a videogame since ever.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jul 9, 2018 9:35:53 GMT
The story picks up after Fall of the Outsider. What chaos erupted after he was gone? I'm looking forward to more lore about this steampunk world. If Billie kept her powers then that meant the others who were similar to her, remained as they were. Another adventure of Emily and Corvo popped up in Feb this year. P.S. Interesting. The events took place after Dishonored II and Emily is able to use her powers. Despite the Outsider's removal, whoever has the mark still draws on the power of the Void.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 10, 2018 12:34:28 GMT
If Billie kept her powers then that meant the others who were similar to her, remained as they were. Not necessarily. Billie is an anomaly, being caught between two timelines. She draws on the void independently from the Outsider, which probably makes her the only one that could actually get to him. P.S. Interesting. The events took place after Dishonored II and Emily is able to use her powers. Despite the Outsider's removal, whoever has the mark still draws on the power of the Void. Confirmed that this is after Death of the Outsider though? Because there is some time in between them. It would be counter-intuitive though given the Mark is the Outsider's true name. Why would that still have power if his powers are removed? But then, it was counter-intuitive to remove him in the first place. Even they say you can still get powers without him and those who have them keep them, it's still a waste of one of the most interesting characters/concepts I've seen in a game.
But I guess we'll see.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jul 10, 2018 12:47:19 GMT
If Billie kept her powers then that meant the others who were similar to her, remained as they were. Not necessarily. Billie is an anomaly, being caught between two timelines. She draws on the void independently from the Outsider, which probably makes her the only one that could actually get to him. P.S. Interesting. The events took place after Dishonored II and Emily is able to use her powers. Despite the Outsider's removal, whoever has the mark still draws on the power of the Void. Confirmed that this is after Death of the Outsider though? Because there is some time in between them. It would be counter-intuitive though given the Mark is the Outsider's true name. Why would that still have power if his powers are removed? But then, it was counter-intuitive to remove him in the first place. Even they say you can still get powers without him and those who have them keep them, it's still a waste of one of the most interesting characters/concepts I've seen in a game.
But I guess we'll see. Yeah, the story of Emily and Corvo is directly after Dishonored II and before Death of the Outsider. In the events that occurred, Emily realised she relied too much on the paranormal powers so she reverted to the training her father had taught her. Dishonored II The Veiled Terror continues after DotO. The synopsis spoke of the Hollows appearing all over the empire, the Void is unbalanced with the Outsider gone and a city is cut in half (not Dunwall) by the rifts in the fabric of reality. I hope they don't retcon the epilogue ending of Dishonored I. Whatever it is, it's eventually resolved. How is it going to be done? *curious*
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 10, 2018 12:57:23 GMT
I hope they don't retcon the epilogue ending of Dishonored I. Whatever it is, it's eventually resolved. How is it going to be done? *curious* It could go the way of the God of War 1 ending...
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jul 10, 2018 13:03:23 GMT
I hope they don't retcon the epilogue ending of Dishonored I. Whatever it is, it's eventually resolved. How is it going to be done? *curious* It could go the way of the God of War 1 ending... Funny, I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to say it out loud. I'd hate to jinx it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 18:18:53 GMT
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 14, 2018 20:43:59 GMT
Shitty. Well at least they had the decency to tell us. They could've easily inherited Half-Life's development attitudes along with their art department. At least we won't need to scrub demo code line by line to look for any hint of DH3 anytime soon...
I can respect at least that it's a logical closure point. We're not left hanging, nor did the series get milked to death then flushed down the toilet. Obviously, I want more, but at least what we have is complete.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 20:50:51 GMT
I can respect at least that it's a logical closure point. We're not left hanging, nor did the series get milked to death then flushed down the toilet. Obviously, I want more, but at least what we have is complete. Yes it's a decent finale but I'm very sad to see the end of it. I love stealth optional games, with Deus Ex being postponed Dishonored was the one franchise I had left.....and now that's gone too. It is good that they're not milking it, you're right there. What makes me far more sad is the focus on multiplayer, I want more SP experiences from them. Their creativity, especially in level design, is quite unique. After BioWare they're my favourite devs, who knows what the next game will be but if it's MP I won't be interested.
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Post by Blast Processor on Aug 14, 2018 20:58:58 GMT
It was nice that Arkane Studios put up the good fight over that last few years. Looks like those days are probably over.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 15, 2018 1:00:44 GMT
Hiatus is better than a death. They'll come up with something with the franchise down the road, hopefully. Their next product, if MP, is going to garner little interest from me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 8:17:22 GMT
Hiatus is better than a death. They'll come up with something with the franchise down the road, hopefully. Their next product, if MP, is going to garner little interest from me. But isn't hiatus code for 'we don't want any backlash so let's not tell them we canned it?' I knew it may be the end, but I was hoping for a new IP to replace it. A single player one that is.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 15, 2018 9:41:36 GMT
Hiatus is better than a death. They'll come up with something with the franchise down the road, hopefully. Their next product, if MP, is going to garner little interest from me. But isn't hiatus code for 'we don't want any backlash so let's not tell them we canned it?' I knew it may be the end, but I was hoping for a new IP to replace it. A single player one that is. Maybe? But unless they come right out and say it, I'd take it that they shove the franchise in a pigeonhole. Ok, that's mummified status now.
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 15, 2018 13:50:44 GMT
Yeah... I've seen the article yesterday. All I can say is fuck, bye bye hoping for an announcement next E3. "Natural closing point" and the likes are just bullshit, they can easily do something more. Granted without outsider is gonna be a bit "hard" but it's doable with a new one or without one I think. Come to think of, Arkane only has Prey and Dishonored under their wing currently, right? wth are they gonna be doing for the next 5 years?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 14:34:05 GMT
Yeah... I've seen the article yesterday. All I can say is fuck, bye bye hoping for an announcement next E3. "Natural closing point" and the likes are just bullshit, they can easily do something more. Granted without outsider is gonna be a bit "hard" but it's doable with a new one or without one I think. Come to think of, Arkane only has Prey and Dishonored under their wing currently, right? wth are they gonna be doing for the next 5 years? Fannying about with multiplayer experiences.
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 15, 2018 16:04:04 GMT
Yeah... I've seen the article yesterday. All I can say is fuck, bye bye hoping for an announcement next E3. "Natural closing point" and the likes are just bullshit, they can easily do something more. Granted without outsider is gonna be a bit "hard" but it's doable with a new one or without one I think. Come to think of, Arkane only has Prey and Dishonored under their wing currently, right? wth are they gonna be doing for the next 5 years? Fannying about with multiplayer experiences. I think it's time for more jokes about "Save single player games" Bethesda so much professed back then.
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Post by hawkster94 on Aug 15, 2018 22:15:07 GMT
You can make fun of Bethesda all you want for their save player 1 campaign, which is basically nothing more than promotional pitch of their published single-player games. But at the end of the day, the sales performance of Prey and Dishonored 2 speak for themselves
Sure, they did some bad decisions marketing their published SP games (Why they released Dishonored 2 on November 2016 is beyond me) among other policies, but at the end of the day, they green-lit the single-player games where no other publishers would dare do so. And what did the single-player hungry gamers responded? They refused to buy em for whatever reasons ("Gonna wait for a sale", "Don't want to buy a game that's below 90 metascore", muh principles, etc...)
Its strictly business. Bethesda saw the market doesn't want single-player games with no online components whatsoever anymore and that games with GAAS elements (Be it heavy or otherwise) are the way forward.
And before anyone brings up Sony first party SP games as a metric, keep in mind that they're meant to sell systems which offsets the cost. Third-party publishers don't have the luxury
TL:DR: If you want more single-player experiences, buy them. Even if they're not AAA
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Post by CHRrOME on Aug 15, 2018 22:27:16 GMT
You can make fun of Bethesda all you want for their save player 1 campaign, which is basically nothing more than promotional pitch of their published single-player games. But at the end of the day, the sales performance of Prey and Dishonored 2 speak for themselves Sure, they did some bad decisions marketing their published SP games (Why they released Dishonored 2 on November 2016 is beyond me) among other policies, but at the end of the day, they green-lit the single-player games where no other publishers would dare do so. And what did the single-player hungry gamers responded? They refused to buy em for whatever reasons ("Gonna wait for a sale", "Don't want to buy a game that's below 90 metascore", muh principles, etc...) Its strictly business. Bethesda saw the market doesn't want single-player games with no online components whatsoever anymore and that games with GAAS elements (Be it heavy or otherwise) are the way forward. And before anyone brings up Sony first party SP games as a metric, keep in mind that they're meant to sell systems which offsets the cost. Third-party publishers don't have the luxury TL:DR: If you want more single-player experiences, buy them. Even if they're not AAA Just because they didn't make a killing with the profits of Dishonored and Prey it doesn't mean that's the reason why they are halting the development of said franchises for now. Whatever bollocks the internet journalists say about "bad sales" on those games is just that, bollocks. Technically speaking Wolfenstein also performed "bad" in terms of sales, yet what do you know? they just announced a sequel this E3. Rage wasn't even on most people's radar until they announced Rage 2. The whole "the consumer is to blame because they don't support developers" usual line is tiresome to say the least.
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