Toyish Batphone
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Jan 4, 2017 5:34:15 GMT
Romances are a matter of personal preference not of virtues,if your OP would have been about :"Who is the most virtues and trustworthy character for a romance" then i would had completly agreed with you.I don't disagree with your analysis(other than for Leliana) All this has nothing to do with me or people being judgemental,if one's think people like Isabela and Morrigan are great romances for story sake,personality or whatever then good for them I don't even disagree with that,if they think they are good example of human beings especially to have on one side then i beg to disagree,because in fact I think they are selfish and dangerous persons,with Isablea being a criminal who fomented a lot of destruction and Morrigan being a blood mage who used her son like a pawn for her foolish ambition to save a monstrosity and with the DR runners gambled the entire world. Which is why I say that DAI has the best love interests for straight males. I chose Leliana because the alternative was Morrigan, who is worse. I chose Merrill because the alternative was Isabela, who is not appealing either. If you were to ask me to pick between Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Cassandra and Josephine...I would go with Cassandra if my straight male character is childfree and I would go with Josephine if my straight male character wants to start a family...I wouldn't care for the rest...
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Post by Catilina on Jan 4, 2017 11:44:53 GMT
Romances are a matter of personal preference not of virtues,if your OP would have been about :"Who is the most virtues and trustworthy character for a romance" then i would had completly agreed with you.I don't disagree with your analysis(other than for Leliana) All this has nothing to do with me or people being judgemental,if one's think people like Isabela and Morrigan are great romances for story sake,personality or whatever then good for them I don't even disagree with that,if they think they are good example of human beings especially to have on one side then i beg to disagree,because in fact I think they are selfish and dangerous persons,with Isablea being a criminal who fomented a lot of destruction and Morrigan being a blood mage who used her son like a pawn for her foolish ambition to save a monstrosity and with the DR runners gambled the entire world. Which is why I say that DAI has the best love interests for straight males. I chose Leliana because the alternative was Morrigan, who is worse. I chose Merrill because the alternative was Isabela, who is not appealing either. If you were to ask me to pick between Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Cassandra and Josephine...I would go with Cassandra if my straight male character is childfree and I would go with Josephine if my straight male character wants to start a family...I wouldn't care for the rest... Cassandra is a Seeker, working with the Chantry, she is not innocent... not better than Leliana (and the others). I don't understand, why better the murder, other sin, if committed in the name of the (wrong) law and order. I think, even worse.
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oyabun
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Post by oyabun on Jan 4, 2017 13:13:13 GMT
oyabun Your argument was that I was spreading misinformation. I clarified my statement, and you even agreed that it doesn't prevent gentital warts, a virus that is heavily stigmatized and all people wish not to have. Therefore, I stand by my clarified statement and I think it's you who is spreading misinformation. People should not think that a condom is a magical balloon of safety. It encourages ignorance that spreads disease/infections/viruses. People should have honest discussions about their sexual habits with their partners and accept that no sex comes without risk. And I'm kinda done with the conversation; I've done my research and that is my conclusion. I have previously addressed in my very first post that such devices help to prevent( in the sense of being a measure to Prevent ) the spread of many(which is the word i used) STI,which does not mean all of them. The one caused by the papillomavirus(from which vaccines do exist) who was the one brought it up as an example (who by the way in most cases cause no symptoms and resolve spontaneously unless it is the case of HPV16 and HPV18)wasn't part of that inclusion. Now it all comes down to the meaning you are ascribing to the word "prevent", I meant for it to have a defining meaning within the matter of chances of enormously decrease the risks (Preventive healthcare),since nothing is a dead certainty. I also believe that expecting for all the billions of people from all around the world to always have discussions about their sexual habits and activities whenever they try to have sex with what may not even be their regular partners is not a realistic expectation and it may go against the privacy of the individual.
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Post by oyabun on Jan 4, 2017 13:30:02 GMT
Romances are a matter of personal preference not of virtues,if your OP would have been about :"Who is the most virtues and trustworthy character for a romance" then i would had completly agreed with you.I don't disagree with your analysis(other than for Leliana) All this has nothing to do with me or people being judgemental,if one's think people like Isabela and Morrigan are great romances for story sake,personality or whatever then good for them I don't even disagree with that,if they think they are good example of human beings especially to have on one side then i beg to disagree,because in fact I think they are selfish and dangerous persons,with Isablea being a criminal who fomented a lot of destruction and Morrigan being a blood mage who used her son like a pawn for her foolish ambition to save a monstrosity and with the DR runners gambled the entire world. Which is why I say that DAI has the best love interests for straight males. I chose Leliana because the alternative was Morrigan, who is worse. I chose Merrill because the alternative was Isabela, who is not appealing either. If you were to ask me to pick between Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Cassandra and Josephine...I would go with Cassandra if my straight male character is childfree and I would go with Josephine if my straight male character wants to start a family...I wouldn't care for the rest... I think that the DAO and DAII romances (regardless of who you romanced) tend to be too heavily slanted towards 'This is the characters who embodies X issue' and end up feeling very one note after a while,so i do think the writers could have done something more in order to make the flaws to appear more natural.Anyway in case you have forgotten for DAo,even if it isn't a real romance there is also Anora
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Jan 4, 2017 13:52:32 GMT
What does this blood magic debate have to do with the romance options of Dragon Age: Inquisition? Not a single LI in DAI is a blood mage. The title of the thread was a brief description of the OP ,the real OP was an evaluation between all LI from the DA franchise minus the last court and two of them were/are blood mages.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Jan 4, 2017 14:17:23 GMT
I chose Leliana because the alternative was Morrigan, who is worse. I chose Merrill because the alternative was Isabela, who is not appealing either. If you were to ask me to pick between Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Cassandra and Josephine...I would go with Cassandra if my straight male character is childfree and I would go with Josephine if my straight male character wants to start a family...I wouldn't care for the rest... Cassandra is a Seeker, working with the Chantry, she is not innocent... not better than Leliana (and the others). I don't understand, why better the murder, other sin, if committed in the name of the (wrong) law and order. I think, even worse. There can be no prosperity without law and order,Cassandra always supported those values that's why in my estimation(beside her being an Hero for Orlais ) she is a better person to support because she does not serve her interests in what she does,unlike such people like Isabela and arguably Merril who just spread chaos all around without any benefit whatosever for anyone. Yeah Merrill restored an Eluvian....does it make any difference for someone(except Solas)that there is a +1 eluvian in the Crossroads?I don't think so Yea Morrigan preserved a dragon once worshipped as god by using her son... does it make any difference for anyone (except Solas)?I don't think so.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 4, 2017 15:56:03 GMT
Cassandra is a Seeker, working with the Chantry, she is not innocent... not better than Leliana (and the others). I don't understand, why better the murder, other sin, if committed in the name of the (wrong) law and order. I think, even worse. There can be no prosperity without law and order,Cassandra always supported those values that's why in my estimation(beside her being an Hero for Orlais ) she is a better person to support because she does not serve her interests in what she does,unlike such people like Isabela and arguably Merril who just spread chaos all around without any benefit whatosever for anyone. Yeah Merrill restored an Eluvian....does it make any difference for someone(except Solas)that there is a +1 eluvian in the Crossroads?I don't think so Yea Morrigan preserved a dragon once worshipped as god by using her son... does it make any difference for anyone (except Solas)?I don't think so. Law and order is pretty good, but there are wrong law and wrong order, or/and legal institutions, which in principle, serve the order, but do not adhere to their own laws. Who serve them, and know, what they doing, not better than a simple criminal. Cassandra supported values, yes, she is a good person, but not innocent (she served the Chantry, a part of her work was to cover the Chantry's sins). This fact, that she got the title: Hero of Orlais don't meant anything. The Warden got the title: Hero of Ferelden, even if s/he was a cruel jerk and supported Morrigan... Hawke got the title: Champion of Kirkwall, even if he was a cruel jerk and a criminal. Cassandra, Warden and Hawke earned their title, but this not means, that they are good persons. Merril was not suitable to fill of First/Keeper post, and her experiment was dangerous. It was unnecessary? Maybe. This was her flaw. As I said: Morrigan is complicated. I can't consider her "evil", but even not good.
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Post by shechinah on Jan 4, 2017 17:53:43 GMT
As I said: Morrigan is complicated. I can't consider her "evil", but even not good. In Origins, I do consider Morrigan to be the Token Evil Teammate like how she approves of the Alienage elves being sacrificed for power and how she approves of petty and cruel acts where she cannot claim pragmatism for her approval. That is not to say that I do not consider her to be an interesting character with flaws and good sides to her but, at least, in Origins, she was a horrible person, in my opinion. She had pleasent aspects to her personality but in regards to people and things she didn't care about, she seemed indifferent, petty or just cruel to them. I would like to note that I like Morrigan even in Origins.
I think her upbringing at the hands of Flemeth played an important part in why she was the way that she was in Origins but I consider that should be used to reason her behavior but not excuse all of it. I am not saying that you are excusing her, Catilina, it's just something I wanted to mention. I do think she's become a better person than she was in Origins but I consider that to have happened after Origins. She is a very still selfish person with some dodgy morals but it's a long way come from the person she used to be.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 4, 2017 17:59:13 GMT
As I said: Morrigan is complicated. I can't consider her "evil", but even not good. In Origins, I do consider Morrigan to be the Token Evil Teammate like how she approves of the Alienage elves being sacrificed for power and how she approves of petty and cruel acts where she cannot claim pragmatism for her approval. That is not to say that I do not consider her to be an interesting character with flaws and good sides to her but, at least, in Origins, she was a horrible person, in my opinion. She had pleasent aspects to her personality but in regards to people and things she didn't care about, she seemed indifferent, petty or just cruel to them. I would like to note that I like Morrigan even in Origins.
I think her upbringing at the hands of Flemeth played an important part in why she was the way that she was in Origins but I consider that should be used to reason her behavior but not excuse all of it. I am not saying that you are excusing her, Catilina, it's just something I wanted to mention. I do think she's become a better person than she was in Origins but I consider that to have happened after Origins. She is a very still selfish person with some dodgy morals but it's a long way come from the person she used to be.
Okay, not totally, but in many aspects I can agree with this.
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Syv
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Post by Syv on Jan 4, 2017 19:04:15 GMT
No, they are the best options for you. The best for me were Isabela and Morrigan, and also Leliana. You won't be any less valid if you only speak for yourself and not for all straight guys, if you aknowledge that you are only talking about your tastes, what kind of character you are looking for. Josephine and Cassandra, as Lis, didn't really appeal to me, as a straight guy, they do not represent the best options to me. I absolutely love spicy things, I absolutely love grey characters, complicated and flawed characters, confident female characters with why not a strong agenda, so you won't see me complain either about isabela or Morrigan. On the opposite, their romance was very interesting and well written to me, my characters were happy.
I find the idea of a pure, nice, gentle innocent female character a bit boring and bland to be honest. It's probably why I didn't care for Merrill ( her naivety got on my nerves too ), and Josephine's dysney romance was absolutely boring to me, and the romance of Cassandra was meh. Angsty is not bad to me as long as I can find an happy ending, or at least a satisfying one.
What you guys are looking for, isn't necessarily what others are looking for.To each its own.
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Post by fylimar on Jan 4, 2017 19:27:19 GMT
No, they are the best options for you. The best for me were Isabela and Morrigan, and also Leliana. You won't be any less valid if you only talk for yourself and not for all straight guys, if you aknowledge that you are only talking about your tastes, what kind of character you are looking for. Josephine and Cassandra, as Lis, didn't really appeal to me, as a straight guy, they do not represent the best options to me. I absolutely love spicy things, I absolutely love grey characters, complicated and flawed characters, confident female characters with why not a strong agenda, so you won't see me complain either about isabela or Morrigan. On the opposite, their romance was very interesting and well written to me, my characters were happy. I find the idea of a pure, nice, gentle innocent female character a bit boring and bland to be honest. It's probably why I didn't care for Merrill ( her naivety got on my nerves too ), and Josephine's dysney romance was absolutely boring to me, and the romance of Cassandra was meh. Angsty is not bad to me as long as I can find an happy ending, or at least a satisfying one. What you guys are looking for, isn't necessarily what others are looking for.To each its own. Well said - to each its own, I second that
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Domakir
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I'm a good person, but I don't practice it.
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Post by Domakir on Jan 4, 2017 21:16:33 GMT
No, they are the best options for you. The best for me were Isabela and Morrigan, and also Leliana. You won't be any less valid if you only speak for yourself and not for all straight guys, if you aknowledge that you are only talking about your tastes, what kind of character you are looking for. Josephine and Cassandra, as Lis, didn't really appeal to me, as a straight guy, they do not represent the best options to me. I absolutely love spicy things, I absolutely love grey characters, complicated and flawed characters, confident female characters with why not a strong agenda, so you won't see me complain either about isabela or Morrigan. On the opposite, their romance was very interesting and well written to me, my characters were happy. I find the idea of a pure, nice, gentle innocent female character a bit boring and bland to be honest. It's probably why I didn't care for Merrill ( her naivety got on my nerves too ), and Josephine's dysney romance was absolutely boring to me, and the romance of Cassandra was meh. Angsty is not bad to me as long as I can find an happy ending, or at least a satisfying one. What you guys are looking for, isn't necessarily what others are looking for.To each its own.
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Domakir
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I'm a good person, but I don't practice it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Domakir on Jan 4, 2017 23:03:12 GMT
I don't really see anything bad with Merrill being a blood mage tbh. I understand if someone doesn't like blood magic but -just like Varric and Isabela said once- the most evil thing Merrill does most days is pick the flowers out of other people's gardens.
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Post by Panda on Jan 5, 2017 10:57:56 GMT
There is this common view in Thedas that blood magic is very bad and evil, but characters that aren't in chantry's sphere of influence so much like Merrill, Morrigan, Dorian and Solas have all expressed that it's more like tool to be used in good or evil than something inherently bad.
Though Dorian describes blood magic differently, he sees blood magic bad, but doesn't see using your own blood as blood magic, more like sacrificing someone and using their blood is blood magic to him.
All from my memory though so might have some stuff wrong ^^;
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Post by Gilli on Jan 5, 2017 18:48:26 GMT
There is this common view in Thedas that blood magic is very bad and evil, but characters that aren't in chantry's sphere of influence so much like Merrill, Morrigan, Dorian and Solas have all expressed that it's more like tool to be used in good or evil than something inherently bad. Though Dorian describes blood magic differently, he sees blood magic bad, but doesn't see using your own blood as blood magic, more like sacrificing someone and using their blood is blood magic to him. All from my memory though so might have some stuff wrong ^^; Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 5, 2017 19:03:22 GMT
There is this common view in Thedas that blood magic is very bad and evil, but characters that aren't in chantry's sphere of influence so much like Merrill, Morrigan, Dorian and Solas have all expressed that it's more like tool to be used in good or evil than something inherently bad. Though Dorian describes blood magic differently, he sees blood magic bad, but doesn't see using your own blood as blood magic, more like sacrificing someone and using their blood is blood magic to him. All from my memory though so might have some stuff wrong ^^; Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. Still just a tool, depend on the user. You can to murder with a knife, and you can cut bread with knife. You can not blame the knife.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 5, 2017 19:07:01 GMT
Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. Still just a tool, depend on the user. You can to murder with a knife, and you can cut bread with knife. You can not blame the knife. Yes, I never said anything else. He does say it's just a tool, doesn't change that he doesn't like blood magic out of personal reasons.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 5, 2017 19:18:03 GMT
Still just a tool, depend on the user. You can to murder with a knife, and you can cut bread with knife. You can not blame the knife. Yes, I never said anything else. He does say it's just a tool, doesn't change that he doesn't like blood magic out of personal reasons. Yes, I know, he doesn't like the blood magic. If I remember good, his opinion about blood magic, that easy to abuse with it, and the power is never enough... or something similar. (But maybe I wrong.) This is true. The blood magic more dangerous tool, than the others.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 5, 2017 19:20:04 GMT
Yes, I never said anything else. He does say it's just a tool, doesn't change that he doesn't like blood magic out of personal reasons. Yes, I know, he doesn't like the blood magic. If I remember good, his opinion about blood magic, that easy to abuse with it, and the power is never enough... or something similar. (But maybe I wrong.) This is true. The blood magic more dangerous tool, than the others. Yes, he says something along those lines. (I don't remember them that well right now either, haven't had that conversation with him in a while)
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Post by shechinah on Jan 5, 2017 19:23:01 GMT
There is this common view in Thedas that blood magic is very bad and evil, but characters that aren't in chantry's sphere of influence so much like Merrill, Morrigan, Dorian and Solas have all expressed that it's more like tool to be used in good or evil than something inherently bad. Though Dorian describes blood magic differently, he sees blood magic bad, but doesn't see using your own blood as blood magic, more like sacrificing someone and using their blood is blood magic to him. All from my memory though so might have some stuff wrong ^^; Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. I think the blood magic that Dorian talks about is the kind that are about affecting, influencing or controlling the minds of others. I don't think it is all kinds of blood magic, merely this specific kind of blood magic. We know there exist other forms of blood magic such as the kind that are used to heal the injured and have nothing to do with influencing the mind except perhaps to dull pain or soothe panic: that kind of blood magic is basically about controlling and moving blood and flesh, not the mind and thoughts. I cannot imaging Dorian would take issue with that kind of blood magic as long as it does not involve sacrificing others for their blood and life.
Dorian: "He taught me to hate blood magic. "The resort of the weak mind." Those were his words. But what was the first thing you did when your precious heir refused to play pretend for the rest of his life?"
The blood magic in question is the kind that is about influencing, manipulating and changing the mind of whoever is targeted. "The resort of the weak mind" coupled with the second part of Dorian's dialogue seems to suggest that the weak mind in question would be someone who resorts to this kind of blood magic as the first course of action without attempting other solutions first.
In this case, Dorian considers that his father saw blood magic as the solution without having considered or attempted anything else first. The additional hurt of it all for Dorian is that his father's first solution was something that Dorian believed was not only dangerous but could also possibly have caused irreversible brain damage so severe it could have left Dorian in a vegetative state.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 5, 2017 19:35:35 GMT
Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. I think the blood magic that Dorian talks about is the kind that are about affecting, influencing or controlling the minds of others. I don't think it is all kinds of blood magic, merely this specific kind of blood magic. We know there exist other forms of blood magic such as the kind that are used to heal the injured and have nothing to do with influencing the mind except perhaps to dull pain or soothe panic: that kind of blood magic is basically about controlling and moving blood and flesh, not the mind and thoughts. I cannot imaging Dorian would take issue with that kind of blood magic as long as it does not involve sacrificing others for their blood and life.
Dorian: "He taught me to hate blood magic. "The resort of the weak mind." Those were his words. But what was the first thing you did when your precious heir refused to play pretend for the rest of his life?"
The blood magic in question is the kind that is about influencing, manipulating and changing the mind of whoever is targeted. "The resort of the weak mind" coupled with the second part of Dorian's dialogue seems to suggest that the weak mind in question would be someone who resorts to this kind of blood magic as the first course of action without attempting other solutions first.
In this case, Dorian considers that his father saw blood magic as the solution without having considered or attempted anything else first. The additional hurt of it all for Dorian is that his father's first solution was something that Dorian believed was not only dangerous but could also possibly have caused irreversible brain damage so severe it could have left Dorian in a vegetative state.
Yes, this is why the blood magic is dangerous. Too easy to use as "solution to all problems". This is a strong temptation.
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Post by Panda on Jan 5, 2017 20:40:06 GMT
There is this common view in Thedas that blood magic is very bad and evil, but characters that aren't in chantry's sphere of influence so much like Merrill, Morrigan, Dorian and Solas have all expressed that it's more like tool to be used in good or evil than something inherently bad. Though Dorian describes blood magic differently, he sees blood magic bad, but doesn't see using your own blood as blood magic, more like sacrificing someone and using their blood is blood magic to him. All from my memory though so might have some stuff wrong ^^; Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. Compared to how Dorian spoke about blood magic before, he didn't see using your own blood as blood magic I guess his father was planning to sacrifice some slaves or sth to change his sexuality.. That's the impression I got anyways, that he was going to use true evil blood magic Tevinter magister style ^^; EDIT: Or it could have been mind-controlling brand of blood magic. Makes sense. I should read rest of thread before posting.
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Post by Gilli on Jan 5, 2017 20:44:00 GMT
Dorian hates blood magic, because his father tried to "correct" him with blood magic. He (dorian's father) basically used the "tool" he had always told Dorian was only for weak mages, on Dorian himself. Compared to how Dorian spoke about blood magic before, he didn't see using your own blood as blood magic I guess his father was planning to sacrifice some slaves or sth to change his sexuality.. That's the impression I got anyways, that he was going to use true evil blood magic Tevinter magister style ^^; EDIT: Or it could have been mind-controlling brand of blood magic. Makes sense. I should read rest of thread before posting. That one, yup.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 23:36:09 GMT
Merril is naive in general but very cute. And if you don't mind the blood magic then there's no problem. At least I don't care about it as long as it doesn't become an obsesion. Merrill does deal with culture shock when she comes to Kirkwall - given she's spent her entire life among the Dalish (she reminds me of a friend of mine who came to the States from Turkey so that she could study U.S. law for her career and was adjusting to how different things were) - but I found her to be very interesting, and she's she my favorite romance for Dragon Age. She's an example of a good blood mage who doesn't abuse their abilities, she uses magic proficiently, she is intelligent (she builds the Eluvian from lore she studied and information she extrapolated from the shard she cleansed), and she provides a non-Andrastian perspective on magic. Romance aside, I found her story arc to be the most interesting (I admittedly found her more compelling than Hawke due to the scope of what she wanted to do for her people in comparison to the main story of Dragon Age II). There's also her sass and dry humor, like when she pokes fun at Ilen asking her about living in the alienage.
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