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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 17, 2016 16:38:51 GMT
Why he is waiting for me to give to him the order to attack the Archdemon? For the female wardens he doesn't do that he immediately jump at the Archdemon,so why he does that with non female wardens? Don't tell me that is because the romance bias because that will make me dislike him even more.
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2016 17:25:00 GMT
.... o-o Most people don't want to die. Yes, romance. Because although you don't want to be dead, you find the prospect of your love not existing while you still exist to be too tragic to contemplate. Since I feel this way about my husband, I find it completely believable.
This feeling does not extend to even my best friends so... yeah. I guess you can dislike him more for being realistic? I also can't imagine ordering someone to die instead of me. So, Loghain, who wants to redeem himself, insisting he be the one to do it was a weight off my chest, gotta admit.
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Post by mousestalker on Nov 17, 2016 18:16:18 GMT
Why he is waiting for me to give to him the order to attack the Archdemon? For the female wardens he doesn't do that he immediately jump at the Archdemon,so why he does that with non female wardens? Don't tell me that is because the romance bias because that will make me dislike him even more. He's very polite. He's waiting for you to express a preference.
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Post by Prince on Nov 17, 2016 18:34:57 GMT
I've never understood where his priorities lie,for the romance he is willing to sacrifice himself but at the same time he isn't willing to accept Loghain. None of that matters in the end whether he jump at it immediately or not you can always order him to kill the Archdemon as he is the senior GW there and can't say no,if you didn't romanced him you have even more versatility of choices which is better.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 17, 2016 18:41:16 GMT
.... o-o Most people don't want to die. At the landsmeet I had the option to kill him,and he was more than glad to accept death rather than work with Loghain,so i would say that yes Alistair isn't afraid of death.
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2016 18:52:13 GMT
.... o-o Most people don't want to die. At the landsmeet I had the option to kill him,and he was more than glad to accept death rather than work with Loghain,so i would say that yes Alistair isn't afraid of death. I'd have to have seen and heard his delivery of the line, but mostly I'm guessing Alistair is just being dramatic and not thinking things through. The initial question was, "why didn't he volunteer to sacrifice himself for a non romanced Warden?" I answered that. To get deeper into it from that point, it sounds more like a game play decision by the Devs. They don't want Alistair to steal your Thunder if you want to play the valiant Hero and do the Ultimate Sacrifice. However, if you ask him, he is willing to do so, and he does so. It's not like he goes, "Actually, you're an evil asshole. So,no, I don't wanna."
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Post by secretrare on Nov 17, 2016 19:00:44 GMT
what I hate about this ending is that it makes love “better” or “stronger” than friendship. So Alistair can’t let his lover die, but can let his friend do it. But just why? Love is _not_ a superior form of friendship, it’s just different. And I really can’t understand why is it supposed that a character will do for a lover more, than for a friend. Or is it because friend’s decision to sacrifice himself is valued while the lovers one is not? In the end who cares I had Loghain which is only all about duty over Ferelden rahter than personal love.
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2016 19:08:29 GMT
what I hate about this ending is that it makes love “better” or “stronger” than friendship. So Alistair can’t let his lover die, but can let his friend do it. But just why? Love is _not_ a superior form of friendship, it’s just different. And I really can’t understand why is it supposed that a character will do for a lover more, than for a friend. Or is it because friend’s decision to sacrifice himself is valued while the lovers one is not? In the end who cares I had Loghain which is only all about duty over Ferelden rahter than personal love. It's not superior. It's selfish. Love is selfish. in the example I've already given, This is never about being a hero. It is about your brain telling you that the pain you'll feel from your mate dying is worse than death. So, prevent that even if it means death for you. It's probably something wired into a hefty part of the population evolutionary. That people don't feel this way about friends makes sense. That people feel this way about their children never seems to be questioned in most Cultures, while some cultures say you can always have another child. But you can't replace a parent. And some people don't think a Soul mate can be replaced either.
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Post by secretrare on Nov 17, 2016 21:26:39 GMT
what I hate about this ending is that it makes love “better” or “stronger” than friendship. So Alistair can’t let his lover die, but can let his friend do it. But just why? Love is _not_ a superior form of friendship, it’s just different. And I really can’t understand why is it supposed that a character will do for a lover more, than for a friend. Or is it because friend’s decision to sacrifice himself is valued while the lovers one is not? In the end who cares I had Loghain which is only all about duty over Ferelden rahter than personal love. It's not superior. It's selfish. Love is selfish. in the example I've already given, This is never about being a hero. It is about your brain telling you that the pain you'll feel from your mate dying is worse than death. So, prevent that even if it means death for you. It's probably something wired into a hefty part of the population evolutionary. That people don't feel this way about friends makes sense. That people feel this way about their children never seems to be questioned in most Cultures, while some cultures say you can always have another child. But you can't replace a parent. And some people don't think a Soul mate can be replaced either. Love isn't in itself selfish,personal love is and they aren't the same thing. Then again if love is selfish while a true friendship isn't than i value such friendship even more than love.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 26, 2016 17:43:40 GMT
You could equally argue it is selfish of him to go ahead and kill the arch demon, leaving his lover to have to experience life without him. May be they would rather die in such a case.
First run I had a male Warden who was best friends with Alistair and up until that last moment I was intending to sacrifice myself for my friend and king. Then he turned around and said he wanted to do it for me because I was his friend and he never wanted to be king. So I let him because that was his choice and as his friend I didn't want to force him to stay alive when he preferred to have a heroic death. I found the whole thing very emotional and moving but if we hadn't had the conversation, it would have been less so, or I might have ended up doing the deed and then left him to live with the guilt of it.
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Post by secretrare on Dec 26, 2016 18:03:51 GMT
You could equally argue it is selfish of him to go ahead and kill the arch demon, leaving his lover to have to experience life without him. May be they would rather die in such a case. First run I had a male Warden who was best friends with Alistair and up until that last moment I was intending to sacrifice myself for my friend and king. Then he turned around and said he wanted to do it for me because I was his friend and he never wanted to be king. So I let him because that was his choice and as his friend I didn't want to force him to stay alive when he preferred to have a heroic death. I found the whole thing very emotional and moving but if we hadn't had the conversation, it would have been less so, or I might have ended up doing the deed and then left him to live with the guilt of it. In fact in old bsn there were a lot of complaints towards Gaider from female players who hated that they did not had the option to choose the ending they wanted to achieve in that scenario.
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Post by javeart on Dec 26, 2016 18:38:38 GMT
Truth is pleasing Alistair is hard, particularly if you're a female GW that doesn't romance him I like him and I want him to be happy and all but, man, he doesn't want to be king, let alone be a king married to ainora, (I don't usually harden him because I feel terrible telling a friend in a difficult moment "well, we're all alone" wtf?) he doesn't want loghain to be a GW and he doesn't want to be part of the DR... He really doesn't give you a lot of options I don't feel bad let him kill the AD, tbh, he really believes in GW heroism and all that , more than my canon GW does at least... But, very selfishly, because I like him I want him to survive, I metagame that, even if I think doing the DR is crazy (partcularly if you don't trust Morrigan, and I don't) BW is not going to screw up all the people who goes along with it, so I picture my GW being self-confident enough to be reckless and say "doesn't matter, we'll deal with the OGB later"... Of course, I still have to make him sleep with Morrigan, but at least he gets to live the rest of his life happily with the GW... Or so I thought until I played DAI now, I make him sleep with Morrigan and then I make him king, only because I don't want him to die there are times when I think I should just make him kill the AD, I don't know anymore what's the best thng for him I'd love it if in the dialogue pre-DR you could get an option to tell him: "listen, I don't want to die, so what do you prefer? killing the AD yourself, letting Loghain do it or sleeping with Morrigan", and I'd totally respect his whish
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 26, 2016 19:17:49 GMT
Even if at the place of Alistair there would have been someone of whom i cared more (like my cat)i would have sacrificed it to kill Urthemiel,i will never save the Gods of Tevinter so that the bald elf could reach super saiyan god level of powers in DAI.Here it is Dreadthemiel a fusion between Solas and Urhtemiel the ultimate nightmare....or FleMythalmiel (FLemeth+Mythal+Urhtemiel)the abomination of legends.How many voices she has in her head?
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Post by Catilina on Dec 26, 2016 19:25:08 GMT
Even if at the place of Alistair there would have been someone of whom i cared more (like my cat)i would have sacrificed it to kill Urthemiel,i will never save the Gods of Tevinter so that the bald elf could reach super saiyan god level of powers in DAI.Here it is Dreadthemiel a fusion between Solas and Urhtemiel the ultimate nightmare....or FleMythalmiel (FLemeth+Mythal+Urhtemiel)the abomination of legends.How many voices she has in her head? We still do not know what will be the end ... I think, the old god story line is interesting. And we have not enough informations from old gods.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 27, 2016 2:45:21 GMT
Even if at the place of Alistair there would have been someone of whom i cared more (like my cat)i would have sacrificed it to kill Urthemiel,i will never save the Gods of Tevinter so that the bald elf could reach super saiyan god level of powers in DAI.Here it is Dreadthemiel a fusion between Solas and Urhtemiel the ultimate nightmare....or FleMythalmiel (FLemeth+Mythal+Urhtemiel)the abomination of legends.How many voices she has in her head? We still do not know what will be the end ... I think, the old god story line is interesting. And we have not enough informations from old gods. Er....No? I know for a fact that one was named the God of slaves....that another helped Corypheus to learn a ritual of blood magic that killed hundreds of elves and created the blights....that another helped the Architect to siege the Black city......and whom later started the 5th blight.... That all togheter helped the rise of an Empire of slavers...that Solas wants to destroy the entire current world and may have one of them...and that Mythal is full of hatred and gained it for the DR runners... Not to mention at my personal disgust toward using children as tools..
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 27, 2016 21:50:28 GMT
The reason I was left with the choice of Alistair or me to do the US on my first run was the fact that there was no way my Dalish was going to try and save an Old God. Based off the lore we knew at that time, the Old Gods had been assisting Tevinter at the time they conquered Arlathan and enslaved the elves, so he definitely didn't hold the view that the old god was worth saving. Considering we had also been told that it was Tevinter Magisters, who worshipped the Old Gods, who had been responsible for the Blight, it seemed only poetic justice that Urthemiel should be annihilated by the means that should have allowed it to cheat death. There was also the fact that my Dalish Warden had fallen out with Morrigan over her attitude to Zevran and so he was incensed when she used the "think of Zevran" ploy when trying to persuade him. After that, there was no way he was giving her what she wanted. Plus he thought it wrong to do that to an unborn child, however unknowing it might be at that stage of pregnancy. So guessing that something was likely to happen to Riorden before the end, I had fully accepted I was going to die. Then Alistair talked me out of it.
On a later run I decided the best scenario is to make Alistair king but let Loghain live. Alistair throws his toys out of the pram but didn't overrule my decision. Then I chatted with Loghain to get him on side. The good bit about having Loghain is that you can go and discuss what Riordan has told you before the meeting with Morrigan. So I already knew he was happy to make the sacrifice. However, you can still go back and tell him about Morrigan's offer to see what he thinks. I was surprised that he actually begged me not to make him go through with it with Morrigan, unlike Alistair who may not be thrilled about having sex with her but seems okay with the general idea of the DR. So I went back to Morrigan and turned her down. Loghain did the US and is redeemed, being remembered as a hero rather than the paranoid villain he was at the end (which is okay because let's face it Cailan was going to sell out his country to Orlais by marrying Celene), Alistair gets to be king and admits at the end that may be everything did work out for the best and gives me Loghain's old holding of Gwaren. Everybody wins! Except Morrigan and Flemeth.
Unfortunately, this solution doesn't really work when I play a Dalish or City elf because Loghain selling elves into slavery makes him irredeemable in their eyes, so for them it is either DR (City elf) or US (Dalish Warden or Alistair).
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Post by javeart on Dec 27, 2016 22:00:59 GMT
gervaise21 , I don't now how strong is Loghain reaction against the DR, but Alistair definitely is not ok with it, yu have to convince him, he does it because, well, is Alistair , but IIRC (it's been a while since I last played DAO) I had to go through a couple of "I'm sure, do it". Particularly if you tell him the truth about the baby directly, which I always do, I remember him kind of freaking out (poor guy, and I make him do it anyway)
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 28, 2016 23:09:19 GMT
For what I remember Loghain is more against it than Alistair,he despise Flemeth and her magic as he already meet her in the past.
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Post by secretrare on Dec 28, 2016 23:26:24 GMT
@gervaise i think that a Dalish may not be concerned with the fate of the city elves,there are many Dalish who dislike the city elves. For my city elves instead it was kind of funny to be the new master-superior of Loghain and give orders to him.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jan 16, 2017 0:48:03 GMT
We still do not know what will be the end ... I think, the old god story line is interesting. And we have not enough informations from old gods. Er....No? I know for a fact that one was named the God of slaves....that another helped Corypheus to learn a ritual of blood magic that killed hundreds of elves and created the blights....that another helped the Architect to siege the Black city......and whom later started the 5th blight.... That all togheter helped the rise of an Empire of slavers...that Solas wants to destroy the entire current world and may have one of them...and that Mythal is full of hatred and gained it for the DR runners... Not to mention at my personal disgust toward using children as tools.. Mmm such passion
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Post by akiza on Jan 17, 2017 13:30:14 GMT
Even if at the place of Alistair there would have been someone of whom i cared more (like my cat)i would have sacrificed it to kill Urthemiel,i will never save the Gods of Tevinter so that the bald elf could reach super saiyan god level of powers in DAI.Here it is Dreadthemiel a fusion between Solas and Urhtemiel the ultimate nightmare....or FleMythalmiel (FLemeth+Mythal+Urhtemiel)the abomination of legends.How many voices she has in her head? I just think it's funny how people are so wrapped up in preserving themselves that they are willing to categorize morrigan's option as "not-risky" or "trustworthy". Those two characteristics never applied to her in game, so why re-write the nature of her character and risk another potential threat with that soul running around with Mythal or Solas? When i will find a reason to spare Old gods I will likely consider it but as it stands now neither from an RP or a metagame standpoint I've a reason to encourage the preservation of old gods,they seem nothing but trouble.
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Post by Kei on Jan 30, 2017 8:22:27 GMT
The friendship between Alistair and the warden wasn't strong enough in order for him to decide to sacrifice himself no matter what.
I don't care about this scenario I've never had him at the end game.
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Post by krytern on Feb 10, 2017 16:40:08 GMT
Jeeze, men really don't like Alistair, do they?
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Post by Domakir on Feb 10, 2017 17:07:36 GMT
Jeeze, men really don't like Alistair, do they? I do.
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Post by krytern on Feb 10, 2017 19:05:30 GMT
Jeeze, men really don't like Alistair, do they? I do. Most I see and talk to seem to hate him in one way or another.
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