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Post by Addictress on Aug 1, 2016 12:07:33 GMT
Alright, so, I kind of feel like the annoying tweenie bopper whose first foray into fantasy is 'Harry Potter,' but who's never seen or read the 'Lord of the Rings.' Or the kid who's never grown up on 'Star Wars' 4-6, and has only seen 'Force Awakens.' My first introduction to Bioware games was Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins. I've never played Neverwinter Nights.
I've had experiences where I can't get into older games if I didn't play them as they came out, because my eyes have been spoiled by the shiny graphics of no more than...I'd say three years ago. I still felt bedazzled and hooked playing Dragon Age: Origins in 2012, even though it was three years old by then, and its graphics likely were outdated. But if the graphics are older than three years old, I am likely to get bored, fast. For instance, I've tried getting into Baldur's Gate but no matter how many times I start up the game, I can't seem to feel that magical immersion I get when I know I'm in for a fresh new RPG experience of a lifetime.
I'm scared the same thing will happen with Neverwinter Nights that happened with Baldur's Gate. And I'll feel like swine.
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Post by Shades of Night on Aug 1, 2016 12:43:56 GMT
Argh! I had to register just to reply to this when I saw it I've been with Bioware games since BG, but yes I agree, the graphics are certainly dated when you're used to the newer, shinier games. Now with NWN you're not dealing with isometric like BG, so one one hand it's going to be a little easier for you because it'll be more similar to the games you're used to. On the other hand... the graphics are still really old, so it'll still likely look like rubbish to you Mods may help with this a little. Secondly if you want to start playing NWN and you're used to something like DA complete with romances and a great story... Don't start with the original campaign! Seriously. I got so bored playing the NWN:OC that I barely got to the end of the first chapter, it's terrible (just my opinion... but it's still terrible. And I still need to finish it one day... but terrible...) Fortunately it's also stand-alone, so the story doesn't have the same main character as the expansions. In other words you can happily skip it. If you want an engaging story you're much better going for the expansions. In SoU you get story and humour, it then leads onto HotU where you finally get a good dose of romance. If you just want to skip straight to the romance though, you can do that too. I actually played HotU first, then SoU to find out what the background story was. Technically your character is the same in both expansions because they flow on from one another, but they're made so that you can play the second one solo and it still makes sense. Another thing you should know about NWN is you can't control your companions, or Henchmen as they're called in NWN. You can order them about and say 'stay here' or 'heal me' or whatever. But you can't specifically control where they go. Which means you fly into battle and it's everyone for themself. It isn't too bad though, especially since you can at least manipulate their inventories in HotU, I can't remember if you can in the NWN:OC, I don't think so. Basically NWN:Hordes of the Underdark is great, NWN: Shadows of Undrentide is pretty good too, the NWN original campaign/game is best avoided unless you're made of stronger stuff than I am. Oh, and of course one of the other great things about NWN is there are absolutely oodles of mods for it. Both ones that change everything you can think of, and ones that introduce entirely new campaigns to play.
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Post by Addictress on Aug 1, 2016 12:46:31 GMT
Wow thanks for the great answer. I think the fact that it's not isometric will help greatly!
It's a bizarre concept to me to skip the main game.... but I'll try that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 13:08:34 GMT
I wouldn't recommend it. I've always thought that the sole reason Neverwinter Nights has a place in this universe is mostly due it's quite innovative and ambitious multiplayer (for its time at least), and the community and mods that followed and expanded on that.
The singleplayer campaign is a different story. Elements which usually make engaging CRPG are something between terrible to medicore (plot, writing, characters, gameplay, etc). This was my opinion back when it came, and when I tried to play it somewhat recently, I couldn't say that it would've aged well. If I recall some expansion packs were slightly better, but not by whole lot.
If you really want to test that style / era of games (D&D fantasy with Aurora Engine), I'd rather start with Neverwinter Nights 2. Although, it being Obsidian game it's somehow even more buggier and clunkier than the original (I guess, clunkiness is mostly due addled hassle of a party management, buggyness is that good ol' Obsidian finish). But it has pretty good expansion pack (The Mask of Betrayal), and the original campaign had some interesting characters (especially some companions / party members), and I found its humor to be genuinely funny at times. Content wise it's not particularly deep (side quests, environments) and neither is the main plot / quest line that engaging or original, but regardless it's the game I could tentatively recommend unlike Neverwinter Nights I.
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Post by Addictress on Aug 1, 2016 13:12:52 GMT
Well, that sounds grim and casts a shadow of delay on my starting this franchise. I did hear around that NWN*2* is more favored in general.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 13:35:00 GMT
Alright, so, I kind of feel like the annoying tweenie bopper whose first foray into fantasy is 'Harry Potter,' but who's never seen or read the 'Lord of the Rings.' Or the kid who's never grown up on 'Star Wars' 4-6, and has only seen 'Force Awakens.' My first introduction to Bioware games was Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins. I've never played Neverwinter Nights. I've had experiences where I can't get into older games if I didn't play them as they came out, because my eyes have been spoiled by the shiny graphics of no more than...I'd say three years ago. I still felt bedazzled and hooked playing Dragon Age: Origins in 2012, even though it was three years old by then, and its graphics likely were outdated. But if the graphics are older than three years old, I am likely to get bored, fast. For instance, I've tried getting into Baldur's Gate but no matter how many times I start up the game, I can't seem to feel that magical immersion I get when I know I'm in for a fresh new RPG experience of a lifetime. I'm scared the same thing will happen with Neverwinter Nights that happened with Baldur's Gate. And I'll feel like swine. Actually that sounds perfectly normal, and I don't think anybody should too skittish or embarrassed because of that. I have a similar CRPG benchmark, which roughly dates to the time I played my first RPGs. For me it just happens to be late nineties, but seriously I've tried countless times and regardless of all the praises I just cannot enjoy CRPGs much older than that artificial line from my childhood (Baldur's Gate 1, Fallout 1, Might&Magic 6, and so on. The generation, which the largest gaming magazine in my country sometimes charmingly referred as "Baldur's Gate kiddies" back then). No matter how much people praised older CRPGs like Ultimas, Wasteland and all that, but I just never could get into them. Still cannot actually. I've sometimes spoken about this with my friends, and all them have similar experiences. Where the line goes seems to vary, but it's the same thing.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Aug 1, 2016 13:48:35 GMT
If you want something that harkens back to the CRPGs of yore, but you don't want your eyes to melt, I HIGHLY recommend Divinity: Original Sin.
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Post by Draining Dragon on Aug 1, 2016 15:29:07 GMT
I'd recommend you get NWN 1 just to play the Hordes of the Underdark expansion. It's essentially the classic Bioware experience (party banter, NPC companions, romance, etc). I wasn't a fan of the OC or Undrentide. The MP is also good, if you're into roleplaying, but you'll need to look up a server list and connect directly using the IP address. The graphics may be underwhelming, but if you play in the overhead view, it's more bearable.
NWN2 is also worth considering. The OC is actually half-decent, though it feels unfinished. Mask of the Betrayer is outstanding. Again, the multiplayer can be fun for roleplaying, but you'll need to connect directly or get the client extension that restores the server browser. The graphics are significantly better, but nowhere near the standards of more modern games.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 1, 2016 19:14:57 GMT
I'll throw in a recommendation for Hordes of the Underdark. I got like 30 minutes into the OC before switching to that.
Plus it starts you at level 15 which while a tad high for a D&D campaign start, I personally much prefer it to starting at level 1. You actually get stuff to play with rather than resorting to basic attacks for 90% of the fights.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 1, 2016 20:15:34 GMT
Since we're talking about those too, out of all of the "new old RPGs" my personal favourites are the Shadowrun Returns series and Pillars of Eternity.
Divinity: OS is a weird one to me. There's nothing I can point to to say that it's a bad game and it's certainly not one, but I still just can't get into it. I don't really know why.
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Post by Alamact on Aug 1, 2016 20:22:31 GMT
Since we're talking about those too, out of all of the "new old RPGs" my personal favourites are the Shadowrun Returns series and Pillars of Eternity. Divinity: OS is a weird one to me. There's nothing I can point to to say that it's a bad game and it's certainly not one, but I still just can't get into it. I don't really know why. I couldn't get into Divinity: Original Sin myself during my first attempt of a playthrough. The second time, however? Blazed right through it under a week. Needless to say, I had a blast. The first time I stopped shortly after completing the Lighthouse part in Cyseal and kind of had a one year pause. What specifically irks you the wrong way about it? P.S. This thread is making me give Neverwinter Nights a try. It's the one BioWare game I've missed out on playing over the years.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Aug 1, 2016 20:29:10 GMT
Divinity has an absolutely lethargic opening, which is never an easy thing to get through, but outside of that it eschews the typical CRPG trait of having sweeping exposition and a focus on story and instead replaces it with pretty much the best turn-based combat i've ever experienced.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 1, 2016 20:36:02 GMT
Since we're talking about those too, out of all of the "new old RPGs" my personal favourites are the Shadowrun Returns series and Pillars of Eternity. Divinity: OS is a weird one to me. There's nothing I can point to to say that it's a bad game and it's certainly not one, but I still just can't get into it. I don't really know why. I couldn't get into Divinity: Original Sin myself during my first attempt of a playthrough. The second time, however? Blazed right through it under a week. Needless to say, I had a blast. The first time I stopped shortly after completing the Lighthouse part in Cyseal and kind of had a one year pause. What specifically irks you the wrong way about it? P.S. This thread is making me give Neverwinter Nights a try. It's the one BioWare game I've missed out on playing over the years. The thing is that I can't really point to much specific other than minor things that normally wouldn't bug me enough to get me to stop playing the game. I mean I found the combat could get a bit clunky, especially with targeting, but that's a near universal complaint of the genre I have and it's never stopped me from enjoying a game before except KotoR but that's because that game is a whole different level of annoying to me in combat. It's one of those cases where I should enjoy the game, but I just can't get into it.
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Post by kouzje on Aug 1, 2016 21:04:51 GMT
Oh my I loved Hordes of the Underdark too. It's probably one of my best video game memory. I can't really say anything about playing it now. I actually have the same issue with Baldur's Gate. It's sitting in my Steam library but I have (re)played it exactly once.
About Divinity, it's probably more fun to play it coop with a friend. It's definitely worth it.
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Post by Shades of Night on Aug 1, 2016 21:07:13 GMT
Some other useful things to know about NWN1: The NWN:OC and SoU only let you have one Henchman, you can swap them around sometimes, but can't have more. HotU lets you have two and they'll banter with each other etc. It's also worth incessantly pestering your companions in HotU by trying to talk to them because they come up with new things to say/new things for you to ask about every now and then. Resting in NWN isn't like it is in something like BG where you have to find an inn or a nice pile of rocks in the wilderness and fade to black. In NWN resting just consists of your character plopping down on the ground and sitting there with a snooze bar power napping. Now, NWN2 as others have mentioned is... Well the NWN2: OC isn't bad really, I personally feel so-so about it as it kinda carries on the tradition of NWN OCs always being worse than their expansions. I just didn't find anything particularly brilliant about it. You can have up to three companions in NWN2 though (and can cheat more as I recall... to the point that you can have so many that they'll block doorways when you enter a building... obviously sticking with the standard three is best ) The NWN2 Expansion Mask of the Betrayer is awesome, it has a really great, engaging story, interesting and unique companions and I really just can't gush enough about it. Except for Gann's in-game model, I wish someone would make a better version of that to match his portrait better. Now like others mentioned NWN came later and so has much better graphics than NWN1. You can also find mods around to improve upon the looks too... In fact I recall an unfinished mod that was redoing all the NPC faces... Ah, here. NWN2 also lets you control your companions directly like you can in DA. Keep in mind that games like Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun and (I think) Divinity are all isometric just like BG (which I like, but I started with BG... and earlier...). So chances are if you couldn't get into BG you may not be able to really get into them either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 23:04:47 GMT
It's been awhile since I've played expansions, so my memory about them is little hazy, but was Hordes of Underdark the game in which (spoilers about the ending) Was it the one, where the end battle was fought at the streets of Waterdeep? It was against Devils, if I recall right. I always felt that the whole thing was damn puzzling. I mean, isn't Waterdeep supposed to be the capital for all the good guys and heroes of the land, yet nobody interferes and the defense of the major city is left for couple adventures. Waterdeep is always portrayed to be full of heroes, good archmages, epic level priests, and the city itself is run by epic level Paladin. Plus the army and the city guard. Yet there you are with couple companions, to save the day.
OP: Well, seeing as people are recommending Hordes of Underdark, I have to add that my extremely negative opinion about NW1 might partially been influenced, by the fact how major disappointment it was for me back then. I had so high expectations for the game after BG2, and in my opinion the game's true focus had been always in the multiplayer and engine, and not the campaign itself (MP which I didn't particularly care for. Ugly 3d dungeon crawling RPG was a poor emulation, when I could just play the pen&paper games). Expansions were a step in a right direction, but I guess damage had already been done. I remember being so pissed off, that I was tempted to join BSN just to unleash my fanboy rage at Bioware back then. About BG, you didn't specify whether you had played both 1 and 2, or just the first one. In case you've only tried the first one, you might still like the second one which is the superior game in every regard. It's same engine and a direct narrative sequel to the story, but I know quite many people who love BG2, but haven't ever finished the first one despite numerous attempts. My ratio between full playthroughs is something like 2:6 between two games.
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 2, 2016 7:04:34 GMT
I would cautiously recommend getting NWN just for Hordes of the Underdark. Once you get past the cringeworthy introduction you will get the good old BioWare treat - good characters, some romance and an epic finale. (Loading the HotU module into the editor will make you sad though. You will find quite a few disabled code sections with a comment like "deactivated at Hasbro's request")
There are also some very good user made single player modules for NWN out there - some of those I enjoyed more than any NWN content BioWare released.
NWN2 has an okay OC, but the Mask of the Betrayer expansion is something not to be missed. Great story and one of the few stories where you actually gotta earn your good ending.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 2, 2016 10:44:31 GMT
Play NWN1 with both expansions, and continue to NWN2... It will be the best ride in your life, if you can stand mostly mute npcs and low graphics. Don't worry to change your henchman if you can open the locks! That cleric woman is very good. I love the inventory and gameplay in general, they're really well designed.
Sadly my save file (a gameplay that I started 2010 and was playing till 2015) was destroyed thanks to my crappy WD HDD that suddenly died. I had proceeded to the 3rd chapter of hordes of the underdark as a Ranger-Wizard Elf.
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Post by felipejiraya on Aug 2, 2016 18:19:25 GMT
I've tried to play NWN very recently but for me it didn't aged well.
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Post by Babar Guy on Aug 2, 2016 18:25:57 GMT
I can't speak for the original, but I have a definite fondness for even the OC in NWN2, warts and all. MOTB is just flat out great. I don't like SoZ itself, but it does add some nice things into the OC and MOTB as well.
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Post by Anubis on Aug 2, 2016 20:45:31 GMT
NWN's story was pretty crappy. If you like building and fighting D&D characters, you'd still like it though. And for that matter NWN2 expansion Storm of Zehir was even better at it. You get to build an entire party of player characters with that one.
If you want story, like was said above the expansions for NWN and some other modules made by users are pretty damn good. One of my favorites was made by a developer and was meant to be a "premium module," which was basically the equivalent of modern DLC. Instead BioWare stopped the program, and the developer just finished it and released it for free. It's called Darkness Over Daggerford, and is a must-have if you do get NWN.
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Post by Warrick on Aug 3, 2016 9:34:08 GMT
Honest opinion, you shouldn't.
NWN is a game from another era. The skill system is annoyingly complicated and the story will not surprise you as you've played other Bioware games. The same thing happened to me with Kotor, which I've given up on.
This is a bit like when you feel the need to read the Iliad because it's a classic and you don't want to be uncultured. You don't read it for fun.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 11:30:57 GMT
I liked NWN hordes of the underdark too, it was really good. The rest of the stuff was ok/mediocre but playable. One weird thing is that I have played NWN2 but can't really remember anything about it. Or maybe I started it but never finished?
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Post by Anubis on Aug 3, 2016 14:29:14 GMT
Honest opinion, you shouldn't. NWN is a game from another era. The skill system is annoyingly complicated and the story will not surprise you as you've played other Bioware games. The same thing happened to me with Kotor, which I've given up on. This is a bit like when you feel the need to read the Iliad because it's a classic and you don't want to be uncultured. You don't read it for fun. Both are D&D based, NWN much more true to D&D rules. If you don't like KOTOR's system you DEFINITELY wouldn't like NWN, but if you like KOTOR there's a good chance you'd like NWN. The Star Wars d20 ruleset for KOTOR is simpler than the classic D&D one that NWN uses, so do bear that in mind.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 3, 2016 15:55:28 GMT
Honest opinion, you shouldn't. NWN is a game from another era. The skill system is annoyingly complicated and the story will not surprise you as you've played other Bioware games. The same thing happened to me with Kotor, which I've given up on. This is a bit like when you feel the need to read the Iliad because it's a classic and you don't want to be uncultured. You don't read it for fun. I loved that era. It also gave me these 2 awesomeness:
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