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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 29, 2016 14:52:17 GMT
Easily the best in a BioWare game I would say alongside ME3 probably.
I'm on my second playthrough right now after many years and there are so many scenes I haven't seen, and on top of that the banter when you bring your party along is both more relevant to characterization and establishing themes and it plays much more often than in DA:I. The best thing is how insightful the companion dialogue often is.
There's numerous moments in the game where really special things happen if you bring specific characters along. Bringing Anders and Bethany to the Deep Roads, Anders in the fade, whoever you take with you into the fade also get special scenes afterwards, and can confront Isabela for turning against you for giving into a desire-demon for example, and I'm not sure if this is default or not but I brought only Merill with me when I had to visit Isabela at the Hanged Man and the following cutscene had them playing a game together on a table.
DA:I did have cool moments where the characters seem like they are interacting with each other and not just you, but somehow it felt more in-depth in DA2 and there are more variables in play I feel. It just keeps surprising me.
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Post by phoray on Nov 29, 2016 15:08:16 GMT
Easily the best in a BioWare game I would say alongside ME3 probably. I'm on my second playthrough right now after many years and there are so many scenes I haven't seen, and on top of that the banter when you bring your party along is both more relevant to characterization and establishing themes and it plays much more often than in DA:I. The best thing is how insightful the companion dialogue often is. There's numerous moments in the game where really special things happen if you bring specific characters along. Bringing Anders and Bethany to the Deep Roads, Anders in the fade, whoever you take with you into the fade also get special scenes afterwards, and can confront Isabela for turning against you for giving into a desire-demon for example, and I'm not sure if this is default or not but I brought only Merill with me when I had to visit Isabela at the Hanged Man and the following cutscene had them playing a game together on a table. DA:I did have cool moments where the characters seem like they are interacting with each other and not just you, but somehow it felt more in-depth in DA2 and there are more variables in play I feel. It just keeps surprising me. This is why I say DA2 has the best cast. You keep seeing them interact with each other directly in a way that is like friends/rivals/ FAMILY. They are concerned about each other in banter.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 29, 2016 15:47:07 GMT
Yeah, I really don't understand the "characters are weak" criticism now that I revisit it. I don't think the DA:I cast was weak either, i just think the way they used them was unmemorable because they're just a bunch of vignettes and they are barely relevant to any plot.
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 29, 2016 18:29:32 GMT
Da2 is a massively underrated game as a whole. They made a few game play mistakes but the story, companions and many quests were excellent.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 29, 2016 18:32:01 GMT
I brought only Merill with me when I had to visit Isabela at the Hanged Man and the following cutscene had them playing a game together on a table. That's the default.
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Post by fenris on Nov 29, 2016 19:56:50 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again: DA2 has THE BEST companions in the series. You actually feel that they are their own people, with their own lives, with things in common OTHER than beying Hawke's friend.
It starts with the little cutscenes like Avelin talking to Fenris about his living in a stolen mantion, and goes to the banters between the characters, up to actual rivalries (I really thought Avelin and Izabela would hit each other at some point!).
But not just the companions - even the people of the city are great - The Arishok, Petrice, Phiona, the Viscount and his son... You feel these people have a purpose other than background NPCs for Hawke.
All in all, I'm still not sure if, despite its obvious flaws, it's not my favorite game in the series.
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 29, 2016 20:42:30 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again: DA2 has THE BEST companions in the series. You actually feel that they are their own people, with their own lives, with things in common OTHER than beying Hawke's friend. It starts with the little cutscenes like Avelin talking to Fenris about his living in a stolen mantion, and goes to the banters between the characters, up to actual rivalries (I really thought Avelin and Izabela would hit each other at some point!). But not just the companions - even the people of the city are great - The Arishok, Petrice, Phiona, the Viscount and his son... You feel these people have a purpose other than background NPCs for Hawke. All in all, I'm still not sure if, despite its obvious flaws, it's not my favorite game in the series. Yes, even some of the lesser ancillary characters were great. Javaris Tintop, Hubert, Bartrand, Lily, Sebastians whole crazy family
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 30, 2016 1:30:35 GMT
Da2 is a massively underrated game as a whole. They made a few game play mistakes but the story, companions and many quests were excellent. I still think as a sequel to Origins the underwhelmingness is understandable, but they really should've made it clear this was kind of an offshoot or a smaller-scale sequel. It feels like what Majora's Mask was next to Ocarina of Time. One is easily the bigger, better package but the other one has heart and soul even to an extent the first one didn't. fenris, and I agree especially with what you say. The companions live their own lives and have their own viewpoints and Hawke is not front and center in their thoughts at all times, and they may even call you out when they disagree and the game doesn't pretend like that's a failure, it just depitcts it as being natural and similarly there's no real punishment for developing a lot of ill feelings towards a companion. Like Fenris he can still say "I respect you" despite the fact that both him and Hawke concede they're not friends per se, if you're on someone's bad side and give them a compliment they'll just go "Bah." Compare that to Inquisition where most confrontational responses lead to Cassandra or whoever saying "I... suppose you're right." DA2 doesn't give a fuck about making the player feel like they're the best in the world. The game does not judge what the player should or shouldn't think; the characters do and their opinions are their own as it should be.
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Post by fenris on Nov 30, 2016 6:33:39 GMT
Well there is sort of a "punishment" if characters disagree with your actions, because they might leave or turn against you in the final battle.
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Post by phoray on Nov 30, 2016 10:53:50 GMT
Well there is sort of a "punishment" if characters disagree with your actions, because they might leave or turn against you in the final battle. But only if it meets 2 criteria. 1. Absolutely Against their beliefs 2. AND you don't have them 80 or above in either direction of either friendship or respect path.
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Post by javeart on Nov 30, 2016 11:00:39 GMT
Though I stil prefer the cast of DAO as a whole (probably my favourite one), I think that companions were handled perfectly in DA2, the multiple loyalty missions, the way they interact with each other' constantly, the way their stories evolve and how they relate to the main plot or to significant themes in the DA universe, the friendship/rivalry system... Personally, I love how much banter DAI has, but you get to hear so little of it in a single playthrough... All in all, and though some things could be improved (maybe they could polish a little the friendship/rivalry system, for instance) for me DA2 could set the standard about how companions should be done.
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Post by kumazan on Nov 30, 2016 19:16:16 GMT
Yes, the day BioWare decided to move away from a big epic story about saving the world/galaxy, and went for a smaller, more personal story with a bigger focus on what they do better, characters, they nailed it. The game has glaring flaws, and when you get to Act III it's obvious it was rushed, but it's still a very enjoyable experience. It's a shame they kinda wasted such potential, and I still hope BW goes back to a similar setting with smaller stakes to focus on their strengths. Perhaps with the new IP.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Dec 5, 2016 21:56:45 GMT
I loved the banter in DA2. Because I liked it so much, I used characters and combinations of characters that I would have never used, just to hear all the variations of banter. That game has a lot of replay value for me because of the banter.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 5, 2016 22:07:17 GMT
Well there is sort of a "punishment" if characters disagree with your actions, because they might leave or turn against you in the final battle. But only if it meets 2 criteria. 1. Absolutely Against their beliefs 2. AND you don't have them 80 or above in either direction of either friendship or respect path. This. Merill was 100% rival and she still supported me because I cared for her after her tragic companion quest and because I sided with Orsino. Fenris abandoned me because he was a rival too even though I did his quest but he has a bias against mages because of the Tevinter Imperium. Counter this to DA:I where you can punch Solas in the face and he doesn't leave. Well... to be fair him and Cassandra have to stay because they've got more at stake than the rest and you can at least tell Sera to scram and stuff. BioWare is not exactly bad at making characters take a stand for their beliefs, just like Bull if he's not tal-vashoth in Trespasser and he'll betray you for his superior, so they're still doing that. I just think DA2 excells in how often the companions can weigh in or directly interact during quests and how tightly it is sometimes tied to the story. I liked how Solas had a lot to say during the near final mission in DA:I but that's just dialogue. It's not Anders and him saving Bethany or Isabela returning with the relic because she cares about you enough to risk her life. Also the ambient banter from the companions in DA:I, a feature they seem really proud of is inferior to DA2 since most of it is just light comedy or meandering, but that's probably also just a testament to how little story there is in what you'll spend more than half the time doing. In DA2 there was a lot of context just within how tight the plot is and being confined to Kirkwall to make characters talk about more specific things. In Inqiusition, there's corypheus, venatori, red templars, elves and that's not a whole lot of meat considering how vague all those aspects are throughout the story and the rest is just the companions goofing around or asking mundane questions.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 5, 2016 22:12:34 GMT
But only if it meets 2 criteria. 1. Absolutely Against their beliefs 2. AND you don't have them 80 or above in either direction of either friendship or respect path. This. Merill was 100% rival and she still supported me because I cared for her after her tragic companion quest and because I sided with Orsino. Fenris abandoned me because he was a rival too even though I did his quest but he has a bias against mages because of the Tevinter Imperium Only one who don't follow Hawke to support the other side, despite Hawke have 100% friendship with him: Anders. And only if Hawke built friendship with him (even in romance). In case of rivalry, Anders will follow Hawke to templar side, and able to turn against the mages. So: not all character do, what Hawke want.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 5, 2016 22:26:36 GMT
But only if it meets 2 criteria. 1. Absolutely Against their beliefs 2. AND you don't have them 80 or above in either direction of either friendship or respect path. [...] Counter this to DA:I where you can punch Solas in the face and he doesn't leave. Well... to be fair him and Cassandra have to stay because they've got more at stake than the rest and you can at least tell Sera to scram and stuff. BioWare is not exactly bad at making characters take a stand for their beliefs, just like Bull if he's not tal-vashoth in Trespasser and he'll betray you for his superior, so they're still doing that. I just think DA2 excells in how often the companions can weigh in or directly interact during quests and how tightly it is sometimes tied to the story. I liked how Solas had a lot to say during the near final mission in DA:I but that's just dialogue. It's not Anders and him saving Bethany or Isabela returning with the relic because she cares about you enough to risk her life. Also the ambient banter from the companions in DA:I, a feature they seem really proud of is inferior to DA2 since most of it is just light comedy or meandering, but that's probably also just a testament to how little story there is in what you'll spend more than half the time doing. In DA2 there was a lot of context just within how tight the plot is and being confined to Kirkwall to make characters talk about more specific things. In Inqiusition, there's corypheus, venatori, red templars, elves and that's not a whole lot of meat considering how vague all those aspects are throughout the story and the rest is just the companions goofing around or asking mundane questions. This is not real counter, this two story totally different: Solas (for example) stay, because he want to stay, his purpose bound him to Inquisition, not the Inquisitor. In DA2 Hawke's group don't have common goal, only personal problems. If exist something, what bound them, that Hawke is. As I see.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Dec 6, 2016 15:32:23 GMT
I enjoyed the banter in DAI, but I hate the way it was set up on the 15 min timer. It made it so easy to reset the time to the point where you got no banter at all. DA2 did not have that problem. It also felt like the quality was better in DA2 because you got to hear about their lives outside of following your Hawke around (Fenris playing Diamondback with Aveline's hubby, etc). That's got a lot to do with how the game was set up though, being that everyone lives in the city, as oppposed to DAI where people are there only to help fight a big bad. Also Anders' banter to Seb about his belt buckle is still one of my favorites. "I'm just not sure I'd want the Maker seeing me shove His bride's head between my legs every morning."
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Post by Toledo wombat on Dec 6, 2016 23:05:05 GMT
I think DA2 is my favourite DA. I think the character interaction is just dandy. I like how the romances and friendships develop over time and depend on how you treat the other person, and how you speak to them, not just on the choice of dialogue you made in one particular mission or because you gave them lots of gifts. Merrill doesn't respond well to sarcasm i've noticed, but Fenris can handle it. I've also had them reject the gifts i got them because they thought they were a bucket of crap, where as everyone in origins is polite about it even if you gave them rubbish or something totally inappropriate. I like the way that Isabela and Aveline slowly become friends, and how Fenris and Anders never do, but remain in the group together because they're both friends with Hawke.
Also sarcastic Hawke is the best thing in Thedas and Meredith is much scarier than Corypheus, hell, Corypheus is scarier than Corypheus in DA2!
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Post by Catilina on Dec 6, 2016 23:21:25 GMT
I think DA2 is my favourite DA. I think the character interaction is just dandy. I like how the romances and friendships develop over time and depend on how you treat the other person, and how you speak to them, not just on the choice of dialogue you made in one particular mission or because you gave them lots of gifts. Merrill doesn't respond well to sarcasm i've noticed, but Fenris can handle it. I've also had them reject the gifts i got them because they thought they were a bucket of crap, where as everyone in origins is polite about it even if you gave them rubbish or something totally inappropriate. I like the way that Isabela and Aveline slowly become friends, and how Fenris and Anders never do, but remain in the group together because they're both friends with Hawke. Also sarcastic Hawke is the best thing in Thedas and Meredith is much scarier than Corypheus, hell, Corypheus is scarier than Corypheus in DA2! (Just bring Anders and Fenris together to Merrill's quest in Act3, you will see, how good friends can be they... poor Merrill...)
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Post by javeart on Dec 6, 2016 23:42:54 GMT
I think DA2 is my favourite DA. I think the character interaction is just dandy. I like how the romances and friendships develop over time and depend on how you treat the other person, and how you speak to them, not just on the choice of dialogue you made in one particular mission or because you gave them lots of gifts. Merrill doesn't respond well to sarcasm i've noticed, but Fenris can handle it. I've also had them reject the gifts i got them because they thought they were a bucket of crap, where as everyone in origins is polite about it even if you gave them rubbish or something totally inappropriate. I like the way that Isabela and Aveline slowly become friends, and how Fenris and Anders never do, but remain in the group together because they're both friends with Hawke. Also sarcastic Hawke is the best thing in Thedas and Meredith is much scarier than Corypheus, hell, Corypheus is scarier than Corypheus in DA2! (Just bring Anders and Fenris together to Merrill's quest in Act3, you will see, how good friends can be they... poor Merrill...) Having Fenris, Anders and Merril together, in general I love them both, but aggg, they're really cruel with her...
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Post by Catilina on Dec 6, 2016 23:49:07 GMT
(Just bring Anders and Fenris together to Merrill's quest in Act3, you will see, how good friends can be they... poor Merrill...) Having Fenris, Anders and Merril together, in general I love them both, but aggg, they're really cruel with her... What can I do, if the others are too busy ... (Yes, and Merrill is too kind with both, always. Merrill is kind with everyone.)
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Post by AGECCR on Dec 7, 2016 20:34:47 GMT
Agree with everyone here. I love DA2 and am saddened by the fact they had so little time to work on it and the negative backlash against it when it came out. I think they did a marvelous job with what resources they had. Hawke and his/her companions' stories have a special place in my heart and I wanted to see their stories going forward in the series because it just didn't feel like they were finished. (Which, considering Bioware planned to take Hawke into future installments...)
I think the card scene in Inquisition illustrates the overall feel of the relationships between the characters in that game, especially the taking turns laughing bit. It was awkward and stiff in a lot of places. Characters felt apart from each other and what interactions they did share with each other was brisk. The scene where Varric and Solas argue about Cole's future and the one where Varric gives Cassandra the new book he wrote for her were the only scenes, to me, that felt like they flowed well.
In DA2, the interaction felt far more natural and apart of the actual story of the game instead of being a sort of side affair.
Eloquence is not on my side today and I feel as if I may have failed in delivering what I intended to get across. Oh well, I just wanted to add support here. I'm glad to see others feel this way. I don't think I really thought about it until I saw this thread (I haven't played DA2 in years...).
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 8, 2016 1:35:52 GMT
Agree with everyone here. I love DA2 and am saddened by the fact they had so little time to work on it and the negative backlash against it when it came out. I think they did a marvelous job with what resources they had. Hawke and his/her companions' stories have a special place in my heart and I wanted to see their stories going forward in the series because it just didn't feel like they were finished. (Which, considering Bioware planned to take Hawke into future installments...) I think the card scene in Inquisition illustrates the overall feel of the relationships between the characters in that game, especially the taking turns laughing bit. It was awkward and stiff in a lot of places. Characters felt apart from each other and what interactions they did share with each other was brisk. The scene where Varric and Solas argue about Cole's future and the one where Varric gives Cassandra the new book he wrote for her were the only scenes, to me, that felt like they flowed well. In DA2, the interaction felt far more natural and apart of the actual story of the game instead of being a sort of side affair. Eloquence is not on my side today and I feel as if I may have failed in delivering what I intended to get across. Oh well, I just wanted to add support here. I'm glad to see others feel this way. I don't think I really thought about it until I saw this thread (I haven't played DA2 in years...). I agree with this, totally. I mean, it is a cute scene and I enjoy it, but parts of it are, as you say, awkward. They way some people rave about that scene, I figured I was just being too picky, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 15:34:19 GMT
I love the interactions between Merrill and Isabela, Varric and Merrill and Isabela and Aveline they made me smile so much DAI companions... some of them feel very forgettable... Blackwall, Cole, Iron Bull, Solas... to me they all seem very forgettable, very generic characters and dont really have anything to offer in terms of the story, whereas in DA2 thats different... instead of just having a few side quests they have story arcs which are built up and influence the outcome of the story (like Varrics with his brother for example) In DAI it feels like the characters are absent for the plot and rather than being a team, youre just kinda like acquaintances in a way... even when taking them on quests your companions never really seem to do anything worthwhile to the story I guess... DA2 I think has a complexity to it, DAO also, which DAI kinda doesnt seem to have
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Post by fylimar on Dec 10, 2016 8:37:17 GMT
While I love the companions in DAI the most, DA2 is still my favorite game. I think they handled the interaction in both games better as in DAO, where the banter was repetetive imo: the group was together for what - a year? And still Morrigan and Alistair would bicker about the same things, Leliana only talks about shoes and pretty things, Oghren is rude all the time. They provide much more insight with the character banter in DA2 and did continue it in DAI. My favorite moment in DA2 was, when the Arishok wants to take Isabella as a prisoner and Aveline steps in to prevent that, after they bickered for three years - that was just great.
SO yeah, mostly I agree with all above, except for DAI companions being shallow, I find them as likeable and entertaining as the ones in DA2, but both casts beat DAO a long way for me (except for Zevran, I love Zevran. And Wynne, loved her too).
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