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Post by oyabun on Dec 2, 2016 2:35:23 GMT
There are so many nice theories on this thread even if i was already aware of many of them and they still have the same grade of uncertanty. I'm curious to know what the hell is that symbolic peacock's tail with 14 eyes(7 old gods+7 magisters) that was there since the intro of DAO and that is also in DAI.
Dragon age is all about dragon gods (between old gods and elven gods that can turn into dragons)so why there is there the tail of a peacock?
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Post by colfoley on Dec 6, 2016 3:42:49 GMT
So I was fighting the High Dragon in the Hinterlands and it occured to me: We know that Dragons are resistant to the Blight. In some way shape or form I believe this is mentioned somewhere. Dragons have a gland which is resistant to the Blight. But, Blights start when a Old God Dragon is corrupted into an Archdemon. What are the implications of this?
Well we know or can infer that the Blight 'sings' to people. The Blight itself does this, heck Lyrium itself is said to have a song. So, darkspawn are compelled to seek out the Old God dragons to corrupt them. Why? Because whatever force, or the Blight itself wants to corrupt them and spread. This is likely obvious. So, whatever force put the Old Gods down in the Deep Roads did so to prevent the Blight's spread. Therefor if you remove all the Old Gods down there the Blight would truly have nothing stopping it from infecting everything. We are at least talking a 'Blight' of endless and epic proportions.
The truly eloquent part of the theory is it suggests that Archdemons do not actually lead the Darkspawn to the surface when there is a blight. Something else does, perhaps the Blight itself. Just that when said Archdemon is corrupted it goes to the surface and then all the Dark Spawn follow after it in an over spill.
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 6, 2016 8:59:25 GMT
I'm like 99 % sure Arlathan = the Black city. The elves liked their gold.The temple of Mythal was all golden , which you can still see inside.The outside worn out , something you can read in the DA artbook. There's no mention of a golden city in the fade in elven myth.They pre dated humans one and the elves were frolicking in the fade and had spirits with them.So the fade was far from foreign or a taboo place for them. And The Evanuris. There's no reason to think the Evanuris wouldn't try to go there. But still no talk of the legendary home of the Maker. About the Blight...I have a long and somewhat crazy theory. Anyway basically the concept of "light" and "blight" are related and come from the same source. A proto "Sun" god , also known later as the "Maker". The elves defeated that proto god figure , tried to use its power and created the blight. I believe it was sealed in that "golden city" and it's possible the 7 old gods were the seal (the 7 gates of the golden city). So this proto Sun god might actually be the Maker, who managed to contact Andraste after being sealed away for so long. And because the Elven mages defeated him, tried to use his power but only created the Blight, while later Tevinter magistares entered the Black Cit and only had spread Blight to the world, I think the Maker then has very good reason to despise the mages he had created. It would actually make sense. Maker, a Sun god, created life. While the mages, thankfulness and greedy brats they are, decided to topple him and destroyed the world in their pursuit for power. As well it would explain while Maker turned from Elves to Humans, but then abandoned humans due to Tevinter but for one last hope with Andraste, for benefit for both humans and elves. While Dwarves were too disconnected from the Fade by that point, Maker couldn't reach for them out. At least not with a coherent message.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 12:04:04 GMT
I think we're going to find out about the Black City one way or the other. The DA team had said that they weren't going to prove or disprove the Maker. I can see them gleefully deconstructing the Chantry itself. "Surprise! The Black City wasn't home to the Maker. Suck up and deal, Thedas." I wouldn't mind that, just wait a game or two, i already spent so many hours putting the Chantry back together. My current theories - We know that the Elves mined Lyrium, and the ones who did was probably slaves, marked with the Vallaslin. Solas objected and wanted them freed. They mined ever deeper stumbling upon the Titans and Their Children (the Dwarves) they fought and Mythal killed a Titan. I think the killing of the Titan unleashed the blight. Mythal was punished by the Evanuris, they killed her. Solas started a rebellion, freed the slaves, and made a plan to seal both the Evanuris and the blight inside the Fade. Then came the Tevinter Imperium and scooped up what was left of the Elves, and the Evanuris saw their chance for revenge. Whispering to the most powerful magisters and made them break the veil open, thus the blight was unleashed on Thedas. What might also be the case is that the Evanuris made the blight in the Fade, and then got the Magisters to open it so they could unleash their revenge that way, on everyone. Solas, The Tevinter Imperium, The Dwarves and so on. And Thedas continue to suffer for it to this day. I am also curious as to why Solas is so antagonistic when it comes to the Grey Wardens, he almost seems to despise them and it must have something to do with the Blight or the old gods, maybe they are the forgotten ones and Solas don't want them to come to harm. Free them before they are blighted, to bad we already killed 5 of them. While writing this i have totally forgotten about Avernus, who claims in the Soldier Peak DLC that the taint is alien to Spirits. So many things to remember and so many theories.
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 6, 2016 13:06:11 GMT
David Gaider said they won't reveal is Maker real or not. But Gaider is gone from Bioware now, while Patrick Weekes is in charge and he is relatively recent in DA team. It could change, depending on what Patrick decides on that.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 6, 2016 13:36:39 GMT
Seems as if those with some control over their Taint can hear a song coming from the Black City, such as Avernus dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Avernus's_Notes I wonder if Corypheus could still hear that song from the black city; hence, his obsession with going back there despite the original failed attempt? Besides the Taint, there must've been something there? Maybe somebody with the Taint is the only one that could use it? SInce there's some truth to Elvhen myths then maybe Solas did make a weapon (maybe it was Andruil's Void weapon?) to convince the Evanuris/ Forgotten One's to wait it out in their respective realms?
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Post by Bacus on Dec 6, 2016 15:13:41 GMT
Thanks all for the theories. Just finished Trespasser, (i sure wish all DA:I was like it). I love to read lore and fan theories
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Post by Iakus on Dec 6, 2016 15:53:40 GMT
David Gaider said they won't reveal is Maker real or not. But Gaider is gone from Bioware now, while Patrick Weekes is in charge and he is relatively recent in DA team. It could change, depending on what Patrick decides on that. Patrick Weekes is the Lead Writer, but Mike Laidlaw is the Creative Director, and he's still with the team though.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 6, 2016 15:55:02 GMT
Seems as if those with some control over their Taint can hear a song coming from the Black City, such as Avernus dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Avernus's_Notes I wonder if Corypheus could still hear that song from the black city; hence, his obsession with going back there despite the original failed attempt? Besides the Taint, there must've been something there? Maybe somebody with the Taint is the only one that could use it? Since there's some truth to Elvhen myths then maybe Solas did make a weapon (maybe it was Andruil's Void weapon?) to convince the Evanuris/ Forgotten One's to wait it out in their respective realms? The fact that the taint, the Old Gods, and lyrium all have what is described as a "song" can't be a coincidence... Edit: Not to mention Andraste's miracles are attributed to her "song", including drawing the interest in the Maker back to Thedas
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 6, 2016 16:07:15 GMT
David Gaider said they won't reveal is Maker real or not. But Gaider is gone from Bioware now, while Patrick Weekes is in charge and he is relatively recent in DA team. It could change, depending on what Patrick decides on that. Patrick Weekes is the Lead Writer, but Mike Laidlaw is the Creative Director, and he's still with the team though. Still, I hope they changed their mind on this. Especially since I get the feeling next DA game will be the last one, at least as a main series. Spin offs will happen most likely. It just feels fitting too. But anyway, I do want them to reveal is the Maker real or not. And who he truly is, as well what truly happened with Andraste.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 24, 2019 21:30:31 GMT
I will use my Necromancer skills and add something to ellehaym post. [ 1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peafowl#Cultural_significanceThe peacock is associated with pride/vanity and immortality, their flesh does not decay, also symbolising royalty. It was believed peacocks eat poisonous food to grow their immunity and to make their feathers more colourful. - Dragons have great resistance to the Taint. My favourite is Melek Taus, the Peacock Angel. "I was present when God said to me: “You are the ruler and Lord on the Earth”. God, the compassionate, gave me 7 earths and throne of the heaven." God created the world and then entrusted it to the 7 Holy Beings (Angels/the Seven Mysteries), among them was Melek Taus - their leader. He is believed to represent God. "Benevolent angel who has redeemed himself from his fall and has become a demiurge who created the cosmos from the cosmic egg." "After he repented, he wept for 7,000 years, his tears filling 7 jars, which then quenched the fires of hell." -------- The Black City is either the creation of the Evanuris trapped in the Fade dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Vir_Dirthara:_Raising_the_Sonallium or the spiritual menifestation of the Void.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 27, 2019 19:00:06 GMT
What I have always been curious about was what people saw in the Fade before it turned black? Did they see a Golden City as the Chant says? If so, then why did Corypheus says on being awakened in the Legacy "It was meant to be golden", as though someone had told him this is how it should appear rather than having seen it before going there. Yet if it was already black, which he claims it was when they got there, why weren't they aware of this? This does seem to suggest that if it appeared Golden then this was simply an illusion that they destroyed on physically making contact.
All major religions in Thedas seem to regard the Eternal City in the Fade is/was the home of their gods, it is just the names of the gods which vary. Now the Chantry understand that the Maker left when his home was invaded, so the empty throne would not be a revelation to them but the Dalish believe that is where their gods were imprisoned, in which case where did they get to? Certainly the doorway to their prison is likely located there. So the Black City is not so much a spiritual manifestation of the Void as the gateway to it.
It is also possible that cutting it off in the Fade was intended to contain the darkness (Blight) so it couldn't escape into the material world but someone from the real world making physical contact caused its release.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 28, 2019 5:19:17 GMT
Patrick Weekes is the Lead Writer, but Mike Laidlaw is the Creative Director, and he's still with the team though. Still, I hope they changed their mind on this. Especially since I get the feeling next DA game will be the last one, at least as a main series. Spin offs will happen most likely. It just feels fitting too. But anyway, I do want them to reveal is the Maker real or not. And who he truly is, as well what truly happened with Andraste. I don't know, regardless of if they prove or disprove portions of the Chantry faith, the Maker is an absent/ambiguous sort of god that it can still be claimed that 'possibly' exists. Take what happened with Cassandra when she learned the truth of her Seeker ritual which was really a magic ritual; Solas was quick to reaffirm her faith by saying "...who, if not the Maker of this world, could grant such a gift?". It never mattered how the ritual was conducted, they can always say attribute the 'how' to the Maker anyway because everything was created by him. The golden city was created by elves? Well the Maker gave them inspiration to make it. The Creators are real? Well they were just misguided elves who misinterpreted knowledge and tapped into the Maker's creation(s). The blight was made by elves/dwarves/whoever? Well the Maker allowed them to unlock that knowledge so they could punish themselves. The veil was created by Fen'Harel? Well the Maker arranged it so Fen'Harel would set it up. The Chant is wrong? Well we mortals just misinterpreted the Maker's will. No matter how much of the Chant is contradicted or tattered, they can still squeeze the possibility of a Maker in because of how he is so all-powerful, all-knowing and generally absent from any direct intervention. It all depends on how much they are willing to twist logic. So its still possible they can reveal whatever they want with the golden city and still technically remain true to thier little promise about not disproving the Maker.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 28, 2019 9:09:45 GMT
No matter how much of the Chant is contradicted or tattered, they can still squeeze the possibility of a Maker in because of how he is so all-powerful, all-knowing and generally absent from any direct intervention. It all depends on how much they are willing to twist logic. So its still possible they can reveal whatever they want with the golden city and still technically remain true to thier little promise about not disproving the Maker. This is what I always assumed would be the case when it came to not disproving the Maker. As a deity that has declared his intention not to intervene and seems to be represented as a sort of first cause in the universe, everything that seems to contradict him can be put down to misrepresentation/misinterpretation or simple mind manipulation by other beings be they mortals or spirits. That said, much of what we were originally taught about the nature of the universe came from the Chant and that would be true of in universe people as well. What I wanted to see was those people who claim the Chant came directly from the Maker explain how various facts seem to be totally wrong when Andraste was meant to have received her inspiration directly from him. They can say Solas was influenced by the Maker to cause the Veil but that is not how the Chant reads. In fact, given the sequence of events in the Chant and the fact that it was the Maker who claimed to have imprisoned the false gods, my immediate reaction to the revelations of Trespasser is that Solas is the Maker who spoke to Andraste. "I made the world as it currently is" would be a perfectly true statement on his behalf. It would also be understandable that if Andraste was appealing to someone to help free her people from tyrants, that he would want to help. It is clear from the Canticle of Shartan that the main focus of the efforts of her army was not about spreading faith in the Maker (clearly the interpretation that Drakon wished to place on it) but about freeing the slaves. This is also true about Andraste's alleged attitude to magic that seems wholly down to the interpretation the Chantry place on it. I had always maintained that her teaching does not condemn magic (which is the gift of the Maker) but the abuse of power, including magic, which would be wholly in keeping with Solas' attitude to them both. It is also understandable that when her human husband betrayed her and her human armies abandoned her to her fate (Shartan and his elves tried to rescue her) that Solas from his vantage in the Fade became disillusioned with the world he had created and went back to a position of non-participation until such time as he had recovered his strength enough to reverse his previous action. It also seems possible that Solas originally took his action against the Evanuris because their lust for power had been manifested in the creation of red lyrium/taint and he knew that the Blight would ultimately destroy the world if they weren't stopped, so he trapped them and the corruption in the city in the Fade. Corypheus and Co breaking in released the "darkness" so the world was doomed. If that was the case, then helping Andraste was just a delaying tactic, as much as he genuinely wanted to help her in her war. Whilst it is disappointing to find that everything that is wrong in the world is probably attributable to ancient elves or the legacy of their magic which others used later, that does seem the direction the writers are heading in at the moment. If DA4 proves me wrong I shall be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Mar 10, 2019 17:38:51 GMT
Trying to take Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance/The All-Father and the Peacock feathers more literally, the Earth may be The Stone/ Titan and the Sun might be a Great Dragon, more specifically a Phoenix-like Great Dragon, which also fits the sun motif. So just like there might be a Red Lyrium Titan there might be a Red Lyrium Great Dragon. It's possible that the same way a dead/Red Lyrium Titan may have created a Void in the Fade, a dead/Red Lyrium Great Dragon creates a physical Void in Thedas.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 11, 2019 1:14:54 GMT
That would explain why Tamlen saw the Black City through the eluvian.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 11, 2019 8:49:05 GMT
There is little doubt in my mind that the Black City is a remnant of the true Arlathan and this bridged the divide between Thedas and the Fade, being constructed as part of the Crossroads network by the Evanuris. There was always a difference between the two states of existence but no physical barrier that prevented spirits crossing over into the world. However, it wasn't possible to enter the Fade and retain your physical form (I realise that Here Lies the Abyss seems to disprove this but this was the realm of a powerful demon). This is why the elves came up with a bridging realm in the first place, that allowed them to be close enough to the Fade to perform powerful magic and commune with it inhabitants easily but still retain their physical form. It is worth noting that in Dalish lore, Arlathan was the place where "the best of elves would go", so this is probably a memory of the fact that only the Evanruis and their chosen followers were permitted access. The Dalish also teach that the Eternal City in the Fade is the home of their gods and where they are imprisoned.
When Solas raised the Veil it was probably broken in two as were all the other structures in the bridging realm, like the Ancient Library, one half being left in the Fade, not entirely part of it because it never was and the other half dropping beneath the sea, something not previously mentioned in elven/Dalish lore but included in Maryden's song (so presumably came from the writers) although why she knows this when no one else does is a puzzle. Even though it fell beneath the sea, its magic kept it from being filled with water. Alternatively there were other sections of the city that were beneath the earth and it was these that were sealed off by the elves before Solas raised the Veil because of what had been done there, that ultimately led to its corruption.
So the city that Tamlen could see through the eluvian was the part or parts that were left deep beneath Thedas that had always been black. The seals were probably already weakening when the Magisters broke through to the Fade part and this brief reconnection probably broke the seals altogether, allowing the corruption to spread to the part in the Fade and the creatures trapped within the earthbound part to escape. However, with nothing to anchor them in the Fade, the Magisters were thrown back out again and returned to earth. Since there seems no evidence of the Magisters taking part in the First Blight, at least one, the Architect, seems to have suffered from amnesia, and Corypheus seemed to have no knowledge of the fate of the others, they probably were thrown back randomly across the world and may even have spent some time comatose before they revived.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 11, 2019 10:58:35 GMT
That would explain why Tamlen saw the Black City through the eluvian. Could he have been seeing a Thaig in the Deep Roads? It'd explain how the the Darkspawn first got into those ruins and corrupted the mirror, what the entity was in the mirror that "saw" him and where he disappeared too?
(How tragic is it to imagine Tamlen had been lost in the Deep Roads, eventually made his way back to the Eluvian, only to find it inaccessible because Duncan had already destroyed the Eluvian it connected to?)
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 11, 2019 17:16:10 GMT
what the entity was in the mirror that "saw" him and where he disappeared too? I think the entity was more than a darkspawn. Either it was the arch-demon (but then why the city?) or possibly a corrupted Titan or Broodmother-Prime?
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 2, 2019 6:42:28 GMT
After reading about Mythal defeating a Titan (in Trespasser DLC, I think), I believe the taint (which, once spread through the world by the darkspawn, causes the Blight) was originated from the dead Titan. After its death, the Titan’s blood, once blue like normal lyrium*, could have turned red, spreading its death to the creatures bound or tied to it by magic (such as dwarves).
Seeing how the tainted lyrium spread like a disease and its victims infected anyone around it just by proximity, the Evanuris could have sealed the dead Titan away to contain the source of the Blight and prevent further infections. The seal could be the red lyrium idol Varric and Hawke discovered in the Deep Roads. It DID have a goddess shaped in stone in it. Could it represent Mythal?
(Remember, we find several statues of dragons in the Deep Roads in Trespasser DLC, so Mythal worship exists in the Lost or Primeval Thaigs)
After the Veil was created, dwarves presumably lost all contact with the Titans, thus being sundered from the Fade(?) and became Tranquil without knowing. Which is why they can’t use magic and can’t enter the Fade in dreams. Hence why Shaper Valta can use magic once the Titan establishes a mental connection with her.
Then how did the taint escape the dead Titan’s prison and infect the world? Why, when the seven Tevinter magisters entered the Fade and went into the Black City, where the dead Titan could have been imprisoned. Which means ONE of them must have found the prison and opened it inadvertedly, thus releasing the taint into the Fade, infecting the seven magisters, who then became the first darkspawn and infected other life forms once they returned to Thedas.
And now that Corypheus returned, he could have gathered his memories, remembered what happened and was ready to return to the Black City, possibly to execute Solas’ plan: tear down the Veil and reshape the world according to his whims. But how will Solas enter the Black City safe from the taint, if the prison where the dead Titan rests was opened and the taint spread everywhere? Well, that’s what DA 4 will have to answer. Perhaps that’s why we see Solas with the red lyrium idol in the first DA 4 artwork that was released.
(*Lyrium is the Titan’s blood.) (Red lyrium is that blood corrupted by the taint, according to Bianca (Varric’s girlfriend) in DA:Inquisition, who states lyrium is not only infected with the taint, but is also alive, instead of being just a mineral.) (Also, it’s worth noting how they’re called LYRIUM VEINS by the dwarves, akin to blood veins and arteries.)
Addendum
A crazy theory no one may have considered so far: What if instead of a dead Titan the one to die and originate the taint and the Blight was Mythal?
Abelas and Solas state that she was murdered, if a god can be, and that they -the Evanuris - destroyed her temple. Could the death of a goddess cause such a catastrophy as to affect a world interlaced with and shaped by magic, creating a mortal disease that turns living beings into dead-looking creatures?
And isn’t murder a form of blood magic? Aren’t you spilling blood and sacrificing someone’s life when you commit murder? And knowing how the Evanuris were magisters who considered themselves gods, couldn’t they have sacrificed Mythal in some dark ritual and have inadvertedly created the taint and the Blight? Could Mythal’s murder have originated the taint, the creation of the darkspawn, the red lyrium, the Blights and all the horror that followed?
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Mar 28, 2024 12:39:48 GMT
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Reznore
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reznore
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Post by Reznore on Sept 2, 2019 13:57:46 GMT
About Mythal, her "revenge", her claiming she made mistakes, and lamenting "as long as the music play, we dance". I believe, and it's more about the underlying theme of DA, there might have been the problem of free will/the lure of power. We kind of know the dwarves were bound to Titans, it seems they can shake the world, and via lyrium have an anti fade magic effect. They might have been keeping the material world in a material state limiting the effect of fade magic when there was no veil. Anyway the dwarves weren't independant entities.(the ancient elves seemed to dislike and look down on this) In Old Haven we also saw a symbiotic relationship between a dragon and a cult, and there's rumors Qunari have dragon blood and possibly could turn "savage" as in purely run by some kind of animal instinct. Spirits are also bound by what they represents. The Blight and the song also fill the head of darkspawn with a beautiful song and some state of compulsion.
So possibly very ancient Thedas was some kind of well oiled paradise state, might have been a couple of Godlike creatures like big dragons, and Titans etc who ran the show, and there was no free will, no chaos. Somehow some spirits who would end up being the Evanuris found some kind of forbideen fruit, and gained a sense of self hood. Possibly happened via the ancient dragons, and this is why their form is sacred to the ancient elves and precious to Mythal.
They fought some "sun" god that was binding them, ( and again ancient elves knows about binding like the well of sorrows,) Something went wrong and the Blight was created. Maybe at first the ancient elves managed the whole thing. But then they went after Titans, upsetting again the balance of the world, and some more blight was created. The Blight might be the twisted version of a highly potent magical power. Mythal thought she could keep balance herself, but the lure of power was too great and her elven peers tried to use the Blight to empower themselves. Hence her fighting them, getting killed, and maybe being bitter at the price she had to pay to free her people. She also complains of the heart of men being dark, maybe because even thought she freed them and created a great empire, that was not enough and her peers wanted more and ruined all the things.
TL;DR Could be there was at first on old Thedas, simple spirit in the fade, a couple of animals/dragons, and Titans+ their dwarven minions. Some spirit did something with dragons and managed to embodied themselves on material Thedas, gaining some free will in the process. Same way Titans are responsible for lyrium, there might be something responsible for fade magic that the new elves fought and bound. Possibly creating the Blight, then they went after Titans and created more Blight. Elves fought among themselves and some wanted to use the Blight to get the upper hand. Ended up being bound somewhere as well. All of this old "problems" are still somewhere on Thedas. And Mythal is possibly caught in an impossible task, and Solas is trying to go at it as well.
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