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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 25, 2018 22:28:16 GMT
Wow.... that's what I get for taking a couple of days off. Welcome back...
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Post by Deerber on Jun 25, 2018 22:31:09 GMT
Eh, I was messing with ya'll guys, I don't really mind if people discuss Bantha food in here. After all, it's still part of Star Wars, no? That said, the title stays! ... As a reminder
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 25, 2018 22:44:21 GMT
What do you think about Darth Traya? I'll be perfectly honest... I have not had the privilege of playing the Old Republic games Down the line I hope to get the chance to play one of them. The combat has not improved with time. If you don't mind games that involve adding mods, I still highly recommend both games. Plus, you can see my average modding and voice acting skills at play in a couple larger mods. That may be a deterrent
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Post by Sifr on Jun 25, 2018 22:58:22 GMT
Not turning the old heroes into pathetic failures at life is NOT an impossible standard. How is Luke's failures any worse than the Jedi's?
The Jedi's greatest failure was preventing Anakin from going rogue, leading a purge of their ranks and helping the rise of the Empire... and Luke's greatest failure was preventing Ben from going rogue, leading a purge of his students and helping the rise of the First Order.
After the rise of the Empire, Obi-Wan and Yoda retreated to an isolated world to live as reclusive hermits... and after the rise of the First Order, Luke retreated to an isolate world to become a reclusive hermit.
Seems to me like history has a habit of repeating itself, especially in the GFFA.
If you didn't think Luke joining an order of quasi-religious space-monks would end happily or be a constant thrill-ride, you weren't paying attention. Being a Jedi is like being a Grey Warden. Sure, the idea of being a member of a badass ancient order of warriors with special powers sounds great on paper... but the reality would seriously suck.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 25, 2018 23:05:30 GMT
*walks in and sees the new thread title*
Now what!?
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Post by Iakus on Jun 25, 2018 23:12:59 GMT
Not turning the old heroes into pathetic failures at life is NOT an impossible standard. How is Luke's failures any worse than the Jedi's?
The Jedi's greatest failure was preventing Anakin from going rogue, leading a purge of their ranks and helping the rise of the Empire... and Luke's greatest failure was preventing Ben from going rogue, leading a purge of his students and helping the rise of the First Order.
After the rise of the Empire, Obi-Wan and Yoda retreated to an isolated world to live as reclusive hermits... and after the rise of the First Order, Luke retreated to an isolate world to become a reclusive hermit.
Seems to me like history has a habit of repeating itself, especially in the GFFA.
If you didn't think Luke joining an order of quasi-religious space-monks would end happily or be a constant thrill-ride, you weren't paying attention. Being a Jedi is like being a Grey Warden. Sure, the idea of being a member of a badass ancient order of warriors with special powers sounds great on paper... but the reality would seriously suck.
Luke's failure was idiotic and OOC to begin with. But the worse crime against the saga is because he did FA to correct it. Unlike Obi Won and Yoda Obi Won and Yoda retreated to isolated worlds in preparation to train Luke and/or Leia to take down Vader and the Emperor since they could not. They always planned on continuing the Jedi Order through Anakin's kids. And in the end, they did train Luke. They did NOT become beach bums and wait to die. The did NOT abandon the galaxy. The expectation was that Luke would follow Yoda's final instruction "pass on what you have learned" Not "let the Jedi die out" Not "abandon your family and your responsibilities" not
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jun 25, 2018 23:15:29 GMT
Not turning the old heroes into pathetic failures at life is NOT an impossible standard. How is Luke's failures any worse than the Jedi's?
The Jedi's greatest failure was preventing Anakin from going rogue, leading a purge of their ranks and helping the rise of the Empire... and Luke's greatest failure was preventing Ben from going rogue, leading a purge of his students and helping the rise of the First Order.
After the rise of the Empire, Obi-Wan and Yoda retreated to an isolated world to live as reclusive hermits... and after the rise of the First Order, Luke retreated to an isolate world to become a reclusive hermit.
Seems to me like history has a habit of repeating itself, especially in the GFFA.
If you didn't think Luke joining an order of quasi-religious space-monks would end happily or be a constant thrill-ride, you weren't paying attention. Being a Jedi is like being a Grey Warden. Sure, the idea of being a member of a badass ancient order of warriors with special powers sounds great on paper... but the reality would seriously suck.
It does seem fair to point out that the very first mention of Jedi ever was to explain their absence of success. They're literally described as a fallen order.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 23:25:04 GMT
How is Luke's failures any worse than the Jedi's?
The Jedi's greatest failure was preventing Anakin from going rogue, leading a purge of their ranks and helping the rise of the Empire... and Luke's greatest failure was preventing Ben from going rogue, leading a purge of his students and helping the rise of the First Order. After the rise of the Empire, Obi-Wan and Yoda retreated to an isolated world to live as reclusive hermits... and after the rise of the First Order, Luke retreated to an isolate world to become a reclusive hermit. Seems to me like history has a habit of repeating itself, especially in the GFFA. If you didn't think Luke joining an order of quasi-religious space-monks would end happily or be a constant thrill-ride, you weren't paying attention. Being a Jedi is like being a Grey Warden. Sure, the idea of being a member of a badass ancient order of warriors with special powers sounds great on paper... but the reality would seriously suck.
Luke's failure was idiotic and OOC to begin with. But the worse crime against the saga is because he did FA to correct it. Unlike Obi Won and Yoda Obi Won and Yoda retreated to isolated worlds in preparation to train Luke and/or Leia to take down Vader and the Emperor since they could not. They always planned on continuing the Jedi Order through Anakin's kids. And in the end, they did train Luke. They did NOT become beach bums and wait to die. The did NOT abandon the galaxy. The expectation was that Luke would follow Yoda's final instruction "pass on what you have learned" Not "let the Jedi die out" Not "abandon your family and your responsibilities" not Plus Öbi and Yöda left a galaxy that was contrölled by the Empire and they were being hunted. Luke leaves when the goöd side is in pöwer. Little bit öf a difference there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 23:28:01 GMT
the thread title is even worse than it was before.. :
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Post by Sifr on Jun 25, 2018 23:28:56 GMT
The did NOT abandon the galaxy. Tell that to the people of Alderaan.
Or the rest of the galaxy who endured 18 years of oppression by the Empire.
All because Obi-Wan and Yoda decided to sit on their hands, pinning all their hopes on two kids they'd not seen since infancy, in the hopes that somehow, maybe, they might be the key to taking down the Empire.
And even when they were grown up, they never directly sought them out... Luke only met Obi-Wan because he was looking for a missing droid, while Leia never met Obi-Wan or Yoda at all.
Yeah... their "masterplan" to continue the Jedi order through Anakin's kids went off without a hitch.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 25, 2018 23:39:23 GMT
The did NOT abandon the galaxy. Tell that to the people of Alderaan.
Or the rest of the galaxy who endured 18 years of oppression by the Empire.
All because Obi-Wan and Yoda decided to sit on their hands, pinning all their hopes on two kids they'd not seen since infancy, in the hopes that somehow, maybe, they might be the key to taking down the Empire.
And even when they were grown up, they never directly sought them out... Luke only met Obi-Wan because he was looking for a missing droid, while Leia never met Obi-Wan or Yoda at all.
Yeah... their "masterplan" to continue the Jedi order through Anakin's kids went off without a hitch. Yeah because Obi-Won refused to leave Tatooine when called upon to help. The Organas knew where Kenobi was the whole time AND NEVER BOTHERED HIM!!! They tried to fight, and were totally outclassed (though why they didn't double-team Palpatine I'll never understand). The only chance was the kids of someone who was potentially even stronger than Yoda was.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 26, 2018 0:09:22 GMT
Eh, I was messing with ya'll guys, I don't really mind if people discuss Bantha food in here. After all, it's still part of Star Wars, no? That said, the title stays! ... As a reminder Actually, if you won't change your mind on the title, I suggest the opposite be the case, with a literal reading. All Star Wars discussion is welcome here, including Disney. However anything relating to what is ingested by Bantha majorus, the common Bantha or any subspecies thereof, is strictly off limits.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 26, 2018 0:11:00 GMT
*walks in and sees the new thread title* Now what!? Indeed. Does this mean I can't say: "Fire Kathleen Kennedy, fire Rian Johnson,.. - from a trebuchet!" In this thread?
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Post by Sifr on Jun 26, 2018 0:42:10 GMT
Yeah because Obi-Won refused to leave Tatooine when called upon to help. The Organas knew where Kenobi was the whole time AND NEVER BOTHERED HIM!!! So Obi-Wan and Yoda were allowed to give up and become hermits, but Luke isn't?
Let's not forget, that Luke's immediate reaction in A New Hope was to turn down the call to adventure. The only reason he even came along in the end, was because he had nowhere else to go when the Empire murdered his relatives and burned down his home.
"I can't get involved, I've got worked to do. It's not that I like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do right now."
If Luke's story began with him rejecting the call from Obi-Wan, how is it out-of-character that he might reject the call from Rey? Sure he was older now and had become a legend, but after what happened with Kylo, he'd lost all confidence in himself. Like when he was a young man, he didn't want to get involved because there was nothing he felt he could do.
But going back to Obi-Wan and Yoda, if their plan really was to use Leia and Luke to stop Vader or the Empire, that plan is extremely weak.
What if a life of wealth and privilege had left Leia with the same arrogance and pride as Anakin? Or being stuck on a dustbowl planet in the arse-end of the galaxy had left Luke with the same bitterness and resentment (along with a hatred of sand) as Anakin?
That's not what happened, but it wouldn't have taken much for their upbringings to have made them just as bad as Vader, if not worse.
What if upon learning that they'd both been lied to by Jedi about their true parentage, the existence of a long-lost sibling and that they part of some convoluted plan to take down the Empire, they came to resent the Jedi for manipulating their entire lives for their own agenda? We all know what happened when Anakin felt the Jedi were manipulating him... and it wasn't pretty.
And that if there was even a plan to begin with! Was there ever any indication Obi-Wan or Yoda actually had one?
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 26, 2018 0:49:59 GMT
I'm telling you, man, Kenobi finding the slaughter at the temple, fighting Anakin, and watching his Republic fall, it broke him. Once he handed Luke over to Owen, dude wandered out into the wastes of Tatooine to die historic! P.S. www.geekstyleguide.com/the-lost-years-of-ben-kenobi/
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Post by Evil on Jun 26, 2018 0:50:50 GMT
Eh, I was messing with ya'll guys, I don't really mind if people discuss Bantha food in here. After all, it's still part of Star Wars, no? That said, the title stays! ... As a reminder Would you be willing to change one single word in the title as a peace offering to those people who seem to like the taste of Bantha poodoo? If so, consider changing the "Except" into an "Even". It'll still act as a good enough reminder even with that one slight alteration I reckon.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 0:53:41 GMT
the thread title is even worse than it was before.. : No, it's a vast improvement! (though that really depends on how one feels about the new films)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 1:02:11 GMT
the thread title is even worse than it was before.. : No, it's a vast improvement! (though that really depends on how one feels about the new films) I have a solution, call this thread the Rose Tyco Thread... That sounds much, much better to me.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 26, 2018 1:06:59 GMT
Yeah because Obi-Won refused to leave Tatooine when called upon to help. The Organas knew where Kenobi was the whole time AND NEVER BOTHERED HIM!!! So Obi-Wan and Yoda were allowed to give up and become hermits, but Luke isn't? Again, they had a reason to do so. And when the Rebels called upon Obi Won for help, he responded. Unlike Jake Skywalker.[/div] Let's not forget, that Luke's immediate reaction in A New Hope was to turn down the call to adventure. The only reason he even came along in the end, was because he had nowhere else to go when the Empire murdered his relatives and burned down his home.
"I can't get involved, I've got worked to do. It's not that I like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do right now." If Luke's story began with him rejecting the call from Obi-Wan, how is it out-of-character that he might reject the call from Rey? Sure he was older now and had become a legend, but after what happened with Kylo, he'd lost all confidence in himself. Like when he was a young man, he didn't want to get involved because there was nothing he felt he could do. [/quote] More seriously, you forgot how even earlier Luke wanted to LEAVE Tatooine, but Owen kept telling him he was needed on the farm. Luke was tied down by responsibilities, not out of a crippling case of ennui like in TLJ. In EPisode IX he was running away from his responsibilities! [/div] But going back to Obi-Wan and Yoda, if their plan really was to use Leia and Luke to stop Vader or the Empire, that plan is extremely weak. What if a life of wealth and privilege had left Leia with the same arrogance and pride as Anakin? Or being stuck on a dustbowl planet in the arse-end of the galaxy had left Luke with the same bitterness and resentment (along with a hatred of sand) as Anakin? That's not what happened, but it wouldn't have taken much for their upbringings to have made them just as bad as Vader, if not worse. [/quote] Possible. But Leia was raised by Bail Organa, one of the founding members of the Rebellion. And Luke was watched over by Ben Kenobi. [/div] What if upon learning that they'd both been lied to by Jedi about their true parentage, the existence of a long-lost sibling and that they part of some convoluted plan to take down the Empire, they came to resent the Jedi for manipulating their entire lives for their own agenda? We all know what happened when Anakin felt the Jedi were manipulating him... and it wasn't pretty. [/quote] Almost did happen: Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.
Obi-Wan: That boy was our last hope.
Yoda: No. There is another. Unfortunate that you rushed to face him. That incomplete, was your training. That not ready for the burden, were you.
Luke: I can't do it, Ben.
Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.
Luke: I can't kill my own father.
Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.[/div] And that if there was even a plan to begin with! Was there ever any indication Obi-Wan or Yoda actually had one?
[/quote]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2nmMEE5Mw
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 26, 2018 3:21:04 GMT
About the new thread title...yeah, I more or less agree. Someone I know is trying to get me to read the prequel and sequel to a trilogy that we both liked. SW illustrates exactly why neither is needed. The prequels are not even worth discussing. Revenge of the Sith was the only one that was really interesting and even the end of that had the little whiny bitch's (Anakin) lore contradict RoTJ. It also took the kid marketing from RotJ and ramped it up to a degree that made me hate it.
As for sequels, well, Rogue One was great. Solo was okay. I kind of liked TFA. I enjoyed the bromance that began between Poe and Finn but then was baffled how it was entirely dropped in TLJ. Besides, flying-through-space Leia really didn't work for me. Nor did "I was never trained but I'm better than you" Rey.
I know that there was always supposed to be nine episodes (or six at a minimum because ANH was episode 4). Thing is, the execution has been shit all around.
Since people need it said or else assume I'm speaking this as objective truth, this is my opinion. Like it, don't like it, whatever.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Jun 26, 2018 9:39:10 GMT
I think TFA didn't become truly bad until you viewed it in the retrospective perspective of TLJ. TLJ made TFA bad. Before that, everything was hanging in the air, like: Ok, not exactly what I'd hoped for. Seems paraphrasing IV, don't they have any imagination? But at least SW is back, let's see what it leads to.
Right now I think SW is in real trouble, I think it may actually truly be dead. Can it even be revived without scrapping VIII TLJ? And remaking it?
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Post by Deerber on Jun 26, 2018 10:50:45 GMT
Eh, I was messing with ya'll guys, I don't really mind if people discuss Bantha food in here. After all, it's still part of Star Wars, no? That said, the title stays! ... As a reminder Would you be willing to change one single word in the title as a peace offering to those people who seem to like the taste of Bantha poodoo? If so, consider changing the "Except" into an "Even". It'll still act as a good enough reminder even with that one slight alteration I reckon. Lol! I like that
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
I think TFA didn't become truly bad until you viewed it in the retrospective perspective of TLJ. TLJ made TFA bad. Before that, everything was hanging in the air, like: Ok, not exactly what I'd hoped for. Seems paraphrasing IV, don't they have any imagination? But at least SW is back, let's see what it leads to.Right now I think SW is in real trouble, I think it may actually truly be dead. Can it even be revived without scrapping VIII TLJ? And remaking it? Nö it is dead.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 26, 2018 12:22:06 GMT
I think TFA didn't become truly bad until you viewed it in the retrospective perspective of TLJ. TLJ made TFA bad. Before that, everything was hanging in the air, like: Ok, not exactly what I'd hoped for. Seems paraphrasing IV, don't they have any imagination? But at least SW is back, let's see what it leads to.Right now I think SW is in real trouble, I think it may actually truly be dead. Can it even be revived without scrapping VIII TLJ? And remaking it? Oh for the love of..... If you hate it that much fine, but scraping the plans for IX and remaking TLJ would be a huge mistake and is never going to happen.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jun 26, 2018 12:48:23 GMT
You're all fucking crazy. There are only two canon Star Wars - and only two worth watching: Star Wars, and Star Wars: The Holiday Special. Everything after that was just a fever dream caused by hooking into that weird, virtual reality wookie-porn thing. Or by listening to coked out Leia sing. It's one of those two that caused the non-canonical "memories" that ensued. FACT!
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