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Post by skekSil on Jan 4, 2020 19:44:51 GMT
I am pretty sure it was Luke who carried Leia on Death Star Everyone on Death Star hade their minute of shining. Luke proposed to use Chewie as prisoner, comanded droids actions and grappled him and Leia over the chasm. Leia led them to compactor to escape from the pursuit and Han scared away those stormtroopers. Chewie on the other hand didn't do anything outsanding. Guess this is why he didn't get the medal. Sure everyone had their moments to shine. But when you look at the fights they got into, Luke was probably the least competent, barring Threepio. I just did. You are wrong. Luke and Han were doing most of the shooting, Leia only takes Luke's blaster to make a hole to Compactor and when she is covering Luke at the chasm and Chewie only shown shooting during attack on prison block guards.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2020 20:28:37 GMT
I'm so starved for Rise of Skywalker that I'm watching cheesy fan vids with filmed in theater content.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 4, 2020 20:34:50 GMT
I'm so starved for Rise of Skywalker that I'm watching cheesy fan vids with filmed in theater content. I may have to see it again in the theater tomorrow. Best movie since Empire.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2020 20:46:26 GMT
I'm so starved for Rise of Skywalker that I'm watching cheesy fan vids with filmed in theater content. I may have to see it again in the theater tomorrow. Best movie since Empire. best movie since Jedi.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 4, 2020 20:51:48 GMT
I may have to see it again in the theater tomorrow. Best movie since Empire. best movie since Jedi. Jedi got moved to third place now. Would have been first if it wasn't for Ewoks.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2020 20:53:35 GMT
best movie since Jedi. Jedi got moved to third place now. Would have been first if it wasn't for Ewoks. Episode 6 and 9 are tied for first.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2020 21:01:17 GMT
best movie since Jedi. Jedi got moved to third place now. Would have been first if it wasn't for Ewoks. Jedi is pretty far down the list of me because of the wasted third known as Jabba’s Palace.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 4, 2020 21:22:00 GMT
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 4, 2020 22:31:09 GMT
Well, I just got out of Rise of Skywalker
I didn’t hate it. Not exactly glowing praise, I know. There were things I liked but generally I thought it was pretty messy. After The Last Jedi, I remember thinking that it created some problems for the conclusion of the trilogy because it didn’t really set up enough and tied off too many plot lines and characters. I thought JJ Abrams and Disney might be best served but splitting the conclusion into two movies, and I feel vindicated in that opinion now. There was a lot of plot crammed in there and some things needed to be developed more. I would have liked more time with some of the new characters.
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Post by cypherj on Jan 4, 2020 22:54:25 GMT
When Anakin first meets Qui-Gon he recognizes a lightsaber, and says only Jedi use those kinds of weapons, and that no one can kill a Jedi. He lived in a time where Jedi where at their height and knew what they could. If he just didn't start using force powers after being conceived by the force, it shouldn't be possible. People keep trying to downplay what Rey because it can't be justified. She didn't lift some rocks, she pretty much cleared an avalanche, and cave in. Boulders. She not only protected her mind from someone who had been trained by Luke and Snoke, but she also read his mind through any resistance he may have. Then she controlled someone else's mind. These aren't just throwaway skills like people are trying to make them seem. You keep saying basic. Yeah, basic for someone who is training in the ways of the force. Not someone who has never used it.
Light saber fighting is a skill, not just force dependent and she had no previous skill with one. Dooku in attack of the clones after he tries to throw things at Yoda says this isn't going to be decided by our knowledge of the force (implying that knowledge of the force is needed to levitate and move objects), but our skill with a lightsaber (meaning that lightsaber fighting is a separate skill from simply using the force). Rey had experience in neither area.
Only thing I referred to as "basic" was pulling the light saber to her at the end of TFA, and that was to distinguish it from the "complex" rock levitation she does at the end of TLJ. To me the only thing that is difficult to justify is the mind trick - that's not a simple skill even if she knew to try it. Best answer I have is that her intuitive reaction to Kylo's mind probe gave her extra insight into how mental Force powers worked. Others have already brought up the fact that Rey is in fact a skilled hand-to-hand combatant as seen in her initial meeting with Finn, that Kylo was badly wounded and suffering blood loss when he fought Rey, Kylo had also been hit by Finn who was also not trained in light saber, and was surprised by Rey's Force fueled forceful assault. Just because Dooku says "skill with a light saber" doesn't mean it isn't a Force power or Force enhanced. The whole idea about using the Force by letting it flow through you is that it can guide you, even in light sab er combat. Kylo being injured or not is not why he lost the fight. He lost the fight because Rey got stronger for no explained reason. She closed her eyes and was just stronger because, 'reasons'. So if we go back a little bit, just minutes after figuring out she was force sensitive she not only kicks Kylo out of her mind, but she reads his. So after the lightsaber fight the score stood at Rey -2, Kylo -0. Now we jump ahead just two days to after the fight in Snoke's throne room. They both go after Anakin's lightsaber and it's a stalemate, lightsaber stuck in the middle due to equal force being exerted from both sides. Kylo is not injured or any other of the excuses that have been used, he just can't best her, plain and simple. So let me get this straight. Three times Kylo Ren who was trained by both Luke and Snoke fails to best someone who has known they're force sensitive for less than week, mere minutes or hours in some cases. One time you can say it was luck. Two times you can say a pattern is forming. But three times?! At this point the story is saying that he's just not stronger than her in the force. She's just that strong, that quick, because once again, 'reasons'. As far as the she's good at hand to hand, which she's not. She can use a staff, but I digress. I've studied martial arts since the eight grade. We weren't allowed to start training with weapons until we were at least a brown belt. I picked the bow staff because it was the most practical to me. I had to start with the beginners because it is not anywhere the same thing as hand to hand fighting. There was no way I was going to start out day one being able to hold my own in any way against the advanced students or instructors just because I knew hand to hand. If I had wanted to take up the Katana, and start training with a bokken, I would have had to start over again. Weapons are specialized and skills just don't transfer because you know how to fight in some other form. No Boxer, MMA fighter, black belt is any hand to hand discipline is just going to pick up a weapon they've never seen or held before and be immediately proficient at it. That is just nonsense. And for those that say what Rey did was not impressive, it was just lifting some rocks. Yeah, just some rocks. Nothing to see here.
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Post by cypherj on Jan 4, 2020 23:01:40 GMT
Well, I just got out of Rise of Skywalker I didn’t hate it. Not exactly glowing praise, I know. There were things I liked but generally I thought it was pretty messy. After The Last Jedi, I remember thinking that it created some problems for the conclusion of the trilogy because it didn’t really set up enough and tied off too many plot lines and characters. I thought JJ Abrams and Disney might be best served but splitting the conclusion into two movies, and I feel vindicated in that opinion now. There was a lot of plot crammed in there and some things needed to be developed more. I would have liked more time with some of the new characters. They said that they had to do a lot of reshoots and the movie had a bunch of different endings. I have to think that Poe's mysterious woman and the former first order soldier that Finn met had to have more scenes at some point. Something more had to have happened between the woman saying she hated Poe for what he did, and giving her future away to him in the next scene. The movie probably would have been better served if they did it like Harry Potter, Endgame or other movies that split the finale into two films. I think the took a lot out, and what was left was just disjointed as a result.
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 4, 2020 23:55:25 GMT
Only thing I referred to as "basic" was pulling the light saber to her at the end of TFA, and that was to distinguish it from the "complex" rock levitation she does at the end of TLJ. To me the only thing that is difficult to justify is the mind trick - that's not a simple skill even if she knew to try it. Best answer I have is that her intuitive reaction to Kylo's mind probe gave her extra insight into how mental Force powers worked. Others have already brought up the fact that Rey is in fact a skilled hand-to-hand combatant as seen in her initial meeting with Finn, that Kylo was badly wounded and suffering blood loss when he fought Rey, Kylo had also been hit by Finn who was also not trained in light saber, and was surprised by Rey's Force fueled forceful assault. Just because Dooku says "skill with a light saber" doesn't mean it isn't a Force power or Force enhanced. The whole idea about using the Force by letting it flow through you is that it can guide you, even in light sab er combat. Kylo being injured or not is not why he lost the fight. He lost the fight because Rey got stronger for no explained reason. She closed her eyes and was just stronger because, 'reasons'. So if we go back a little bit just minutes after figuring out she was force sensitive she not only kicks Kylo out of her mind, but she reads his. So after the lightsaber fight the score stood at Rey -2, Kylo -0. Now we jump ahead just two days to after the fight in Snoke's throne room. They both go after Anakin's lightsaber and it's a stalemate, lightsaber stuck in the middle due to equal force being exerted from both sides. Kylo is not injured or any other of the excuses that have been used, he just can't best her, plain and simple. So let me get this straight. Three times Kylo Ren who was trained by both Luke and Snoke fails to best someone who has known they're force sensitive for less than week, mere minutes or hours in some cases. One time you can say it was luck. Two times you can say a pattern is forming. But three times?! At this point the story is saying that he's just not stronger than her in the force. She's just that strong, that quick, because once again, 'reasons'. As far as the she's good at hand to hand, which she's not. She can use a staff, but I digress. I've studied martial arts since the eight grade. We weren't allowed to start training with weapons until we were at least a brown belt. I picked the bow staff because it was the most practical to me. I had to start with the beginners because it is not anywhere the same thing as hand to hand fighting. There was no way I was going to start out day one being able to hold my own in any way against the advanced students or instructors just because I knew hand to hand. If I had wanted to take up the Katana, and start training with a bokken, I would have had to start over again. Weapons are specialized and skills just don't transfer because you know how to fight in some other form. No Boxer, MMA fighter, black belt is any hand to hand discipline is just going to pick up a weapon they've never seen or held before and be immediately proficient at it. That is just nonsense. And for those that say what Rey did was not impressive, it was just lifting some rocks. Yeah, just some rocks. Nothing to see here. To be perfectly honest, everything you have just brought up has pretty simple and obvious explanations given in the movies TFA and TLJ. Since you seem to just want a different movie, well, good luck with that.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 4, 2020 23:58:36 GMT
Old crippled Yoda sure made use of the Force in his fight against Dooku. Rey tapped into the Force to help her out with her fight against Kylo, not in the same amazing effect that Yoda did, but enough.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 0:09:22 GMT
Only thing I referred to as "basic" was pulling the light saber to her at the end of TFA, and that was to distinguish it from the "complex" rock levitation she does at the end of TLJ. To me the only thing that is difficult to justify is the mind trick - that's not a simple skill even if she knew to try it. Best answer I have is that her intuitive reaction to Kylo's mind probe gave her extra insight into how mental Force powers worked. Others have already brought up the fact that Rey is in fact a skilled hand-to-hand combatant as seen in her initial meeting with Finn, that Kylo was badly wounded and suffering blood loss when he fought Rey, Kylo had also been hit by Finn who was also not trained in light saber, and was surprised by Rey's Force fueled forceful assault. Just because Dooku says "skill with a light saber" doesn't mean it isn't a Force power or Force enhanced. The whole idea about using the Force by letting it flow through you is that it can guide you, even in light sab er combat. Kylo being injured or not is not why he lost the fight. He lost the fight because Rey got stronger for no explained reason. She closed her eyes and was just stronger because, 'reasons'. So if we go back a little bit, just minutes after figuring out she was force sensitive she not only kicks Kylo out of her mind, but she reads his. So after the lightsaber fight the score stood at Rey -2, Kylo -0. Now we jump ahead just two days to after the fight in Snoke's throne room. They both go after Anakin's lightsaber and it's a stalemate, lightsaber stuck in the middle due to equal force being exerted from both sides. Kylo is not injured or any other of the excuses that have been used, he just can't best her, plain and simple. So let me get this straight. Three times Kylo Ren who was trained by both Luke and Snoke fails to best someone who has known they're force sensitive for less than week, mere minutes or hours in some cases. One time you can say it was luck. Two times you can say a pattern is forming. But three times?! At this point the story is saying that he's just not stronger than her in the force. She's just that strong, that quick, because once again, 'reasons'. As far as the she's good at hand to hand, which she's not. She can use a staff, but I digress. I've studied martial arts since the eight grade. We weren't allowed to start training with weapons until we were at least a brown belt. I picked the bow staff because it was the most practical to me. I had to start with the beginners because it is not anywhere the same thing as hand to hand fighting. There was no way I was going to start out day one being able to hold my own in any way against the advanced students or instructors just because I knew hand to hand. If I had wanted to take up the Katana, and start training with a bokken, I would have had to start over again. Weapons are specialized and skills just don't transfer because you know how to fight in some other form. No Boxer, MMA fighter, black belt is any hand to hand discipline is just going to pick up a weapon they've never seen or held before and be immediately proficient at it. That is just nonsense. And for those that say what Rey did was not impressive, it was just lifting some rocks. Yeah, just some rocks. Nothing to see here. size matters not.
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 0:42:27 GMT
Old crippled Yoda sure made use of the Force in his fight against Dooku. Rey tapped into the Force to help her out with her fight against Kylo, not in the same amazing effect that Yoda did, but enough. 1) Yoda is a Grandmaster and Rey had found out she was force sensitive a couple of hours before hand, and had never touched a lightsaber before. 2) Yoda didn't use the force to improve his lightsaber skills, he used it to improve his physical condition. If I'm an experienced swordsman with an injured leg and I strap on a splint. The splint does not improve my sword skills, let alone teach me any. It just allows me to stablelize my leg so that I can use my already learned sword skills more efficiently. That's all Yoda did in that fight. I mean, at this point we're just reaching for anything to try and justify this.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 5, 2020 0:56:02 GMT
I see your point. What you've said makes sense, however, it doesn't detract from my ability to enjoy any of the movies or cause me to now have a certain dislike for the franchise.
I'm not trying to detract from anyone's enjoyment of the movie, or the franchise. If someone enjoys something in spite of the flaws, more power to them. It's when people try and act like the flaws aren't there, or tell someone else that they're wrong if they call out the flaws. That's what draws me into these discussions.
I'm not even asking for Oscar level writing, just basic character development. But more so, I really don't care how someone chooses to set their universe up. I'm willing to let a lot go. However, once you've established your universe, I fully expect you to follow what you've established. If being force sensitive has never been enough on its own, and you've needed training to use the force. Then there shouldn't be people running around using the force at advanced levels without any training merely to serve the plot. Hyperspace skipping, any of that stuff, that shouldn't be possible in the universe that has been established. Stuff like this bothers me more than anything.
Yes, I see your point. New stuff (without any precedent or establishing history) happening or just written in "just because" (ie hyperspace skipping)....Nowhere at any time in any of the movies, games, comics or books that I have ever read, seen or played, does that ever come up in any way. But suddenly, in TROS, it is possible and it happens suddenly because they need it to. It serves the plot. And yet we're not supposed to ask questions or wonder 'how they hell is that possible and/or why is that evening happening?" The same things can be said about Rey's powers/abilities/sensitivities in the Force with virtually no training. Okay, so she's a Palpatine....and they use her lineage to explain away why she so conveniently has so much power that she doesn't know how to use it or what to do with it. OK, fine. I can accept that if I have to. It's lazy writing and almost proof they never really spent time developing her character....But whatever. And I agree that they should play by their own rules, follow through on what they or someone else (ie George Lucas) has already established, and don't break that framework just because you want to, or because it serves the plot that you've magically inserted. I totally agree with that. But that's not just present in STAR WARS....But STAR TREK as well, especially the new series, "DISCOVERY". I watched 5 minutes of the premier episode (which is supposed to take place something like 300 years before even TOS)...But they have technology and even species (ie Klingons) that look for more advanced than what they had in the Original. Talk about World-Breaking; it turned it off right then and there and to this day I have refused to even acknowledge its existence. So yeah, I get it. I agree with everything you're saying, and to me....all that speaks to is garbage writing written by people who don't understand or at least take the time to understand the Universe that they've been hired to write about. They just throw something together and if it sounds cool, if they think visually it would translate well on screen, they go for it. Even if it defies the conventions of Lore, World-building etc that has already been cemented. And for something like STAR WARS that has lasted more than 40 years and there is tons of already adopted frameworks to reference (and not to mention there are still people from Lucas' original crew, like Phill Tippet, Joe JOhnson, Dennis Muren and many others. Or at least those who were brought on to work the Special Edition in 1997 which is now more than 20 years ago....People like JOhn Knolls, Doug Chiang, Roger Guyatt, Ben Snow, Pablo Hellman these people are a wealth of resources and knowledge that have decades of experience both in working on the sets of the movies and of knowledge about the Universe they've helped create.) Someone like JJ Abrams (who has been hailed as a 'great collaborator') should rely on these people for their knowledge of what works and what doesn't, what is allowed and what is not, what is possible and what isn't within the Universe based on Canon that they all helped create. And that goes even more so for Rian Johnson (Director of films like 'Looper', which I thought sucked) who is basically an F.N.G. when it comes to having any prior knowledge of anything STAR WARS related. He even basically admitted as much in the Special Features on TLJ, but then says "well if the hardest thing for Luke to hear was Vader telling him 'I am your father' then in my mind, for Rey....I'm going to do the opposite. Screw established canon and let's turn all of that expectation on its head. Throw it all out the window." (paraphrase). And that is basically what he did with everything, not just with TFA, but everything else that came before it. Now, I happen to like The Last Jedi, I do. I thought it was quite good. But even Johnson played fast-n' loose with established conventions....largely because it served the story that he wanted to tell. Again, that's just lazy writing, and poor direction. That being said, I don't think Lucas is a great director either. Of all "Original Six", Empire is by far the best in terms of Direction, and that was done by Irvin Kershner, a former Professor of Lucas from his days at USC Film School. I like ROTJ, but Marquand's only previous experience was a WWII Thriller called "Eye of The Needle" with Donald Sutherland (a good movie, btw), and his lack of practical special effects and camera work (not to mention broken English) greatly hurt the over all production of Jedi. Even ANH, when Lucas Directed that.....his only direction was "Mm, faster and more intense" That was it. He was not good at communicating what he wanted. A great story teller.... fabulous story teller, and that is what I love about him even in his non-star wars work-- his ability to tell a great story. But his weakness was being able to communicate what he wanted from his story to other people, so that they could accurately put it on the screen. Even now after all these years, he still says that Episode IV is still not quite the way he really, truly wanted it, but it's as close as it could get, so he was willing to live with it. That's gotta be hard to swallow. But contrast his style/ability/talent of Directing with that of someone like Steven Spielberg, or James Cameron. Spielberg and Cameron are by far the better 'Director' and the better communicators; more able to get accurately get what is in his head, out and put it into words in such a way that his crew know exactly what he wants to see. Or take the Terminator franchise (1 and 2 are the only ones that exist in my mind, I WILL NOT acknowledge any of the other ones.....and that includes the newest one, yes I know that was helmed by Cameron, but still) 3-6 each had an entirely different crew and every person had his own ideas of what should or shouldn't happen, and each person completely threw out everything that the previous person did...there was no continuity, no flow, rhyme or reason to any of it. If there is one franchise that has been slaughtered more than STAR WARS it is the Terminator franchise. But all of this, in my mind, points to a lack of care, experience or effort in their given craft. They don't care to make the effort to ensure solid world-building, or continuity, or strong character development, or writing good dialogue...or even a good story. Let's just have that, shall we? A good story. All most people care about now in the movie industry is $$$$. Still, in spite of its many flaws (from Ep 1-3, Clones Wars movie/tv show, Rebels, all the games that are now 'canon' like Fallen Order or even BF 2, SOLO, Rogue One, 4-6, 7-9.... all of it) there is something about that 'galaxy far, far away....' that holds magic for me and has ever since I was 3 years old, and I'm not sure I would ever truly be able to let it go or that I would want to.
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Post by mybudgee on Jan 5, 2020 4:58:15 GMT
Just saw episode 9; Hmmmm... How can I say this, um... I'd rather watch Return of the Jedi. Seriously, this movie is very similar (from a script POV) to ep. 6 However, I digress. It's a decent film. It is entertaining, & fairly coherent. It never killed off Chewie or Lando, it never had any of the ridiculous stuff that was rumored. It finally had the knights of ren "kinda" do something. It truly featured Carrie Fisher in a shockingly dignified & realistic way, & the filmmakers deserve credit for that. Also, Adam Driver is incredible as Ben/Kylo. That said the truth is; this movie should NEVER have been made. It is unnecessary, bloated, silly and redundant. This entire trilogy is asinine & I am SO very glad it's over, what a merciful turn of events. Please let Di$neyWars be more like the Mandalorian & less like this dogshit trilogy we've had to suffer through. In Lucas' name I pray, AMEN
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 12:31:55 GMT
I'm not trying to detract from anyone's enjoyment of the movie, or the franchise. If someone enjoys something in spite of the flaws, more power to them. It's when people try and act like the flaws aren't there, or tell someone else that they're wrong if they call out the flaws. That's what draws me into these discussions.
I'm not even asking for Oscar level writing, just basic character development. But more so, I really don't care how someone chooses to set their universe up. I'm willing to let a lot go. However, once you've established your universe, I fully expect you to follow what you've established. If being force sensitive has never been enough on its own, and you've needed training to use the force. Then there shouldn't be people running around using the force at advanced levels without any training merely to serve the plot. Hyperspace skipping, any of that stuff, that shouldn't be possible in the universe that has been established. Stuff like this bothers me more than anything.
Yes, I see your point. New stuff (without any precedent or establishing history) happening or just written in "just because" (ie hyperspace skipping)....Nowhere at any time in any of the movies, games, comics or books that I have ever read, seen or played, does that ever come up in any way. But suddenly, in TROS, it is possible and it happens suddenly because they need it to. It serves the plot. And yet we're not supposed to ask questions or wonder 'how they hell is that possible and/or why is that evening happening?" The same things can be said about Rey's powers/abilities/sensitivities in the Force with virtually no training. Okay, so she's a Palpatine....and they use her lineage to explain away why she so conveniently has so much power that she doesn't know how to use it or what to do with it. OK, fine. I can accept that if I have to. It's lazy writing and almost proof they never really spent time developing her character....But whatever. And I agree that they should play by their own rules, follow through on what they or someone else (ie George Lucas) has already established, and don't break that framework just because you want to, or because it serves the plot that you've magically inserted. I totally agree with that. But that's not just present in STAR WARS....But STAR TREK as well, especially the new series, "DISCOVERY". I watched 5 minutes of the premier episode (which is supposed to take place something like 300 years before even TOS)...But they have technology and even species (ie Klingons) that look for more advanced than what they had in the Original. Talk about World-Breaking; it turned it off right then and there and to this day I have refused to even acknowledge its existence. Well, like I said in my other post. If people enjoy something despite the bad storytelling, that's fine. But that's not what's going on here. People are saying that it's not bad storytelling, that it all makes sense in the context of the narrative, and the existing universe. Let's look at some examples of arguments being used here to say it all makes sense. I you truly believe something is possible through the force you can do it. Then I asked just to be certain I understood the point. So, if a youngling believes they can lift an X-wing, they can lift an X-wing, even with minimal training? The answer was yes, that youngling could lift that X-wing, it's all about belief. So basically, if both a youngling and a Jedi Grandmaster both truly believe something is possible through the force, the youngling can do whatever the Grandmaster can do. If this is the case why have a temple? Why would Luke start a school? Why have the various stages of Jedi growth? So basically, destroy the established universe rather than admit Rey clearing a landslide of boulders after a few days of knowing the force is unrealistic and bad writing. Kylo was badly injured during the fight. Was he limping during the fight? No. Was he laboring or favoring any part of his body? No. Was he grimacing or showing any signs of being in pain during the fight? No. Did he look diminished in any way, or look to become less effective over the course of the fight? Once again the answer is no. OK, but he was conflicted. Was he hearing his mom or dad's voice in his head, or seeing images of himself killing his father that were distracting him and causing to hesitate, make mistakes, or give Rey openings during the fight? Again, no. So either that's not what happened, or it's bad writing/directing. Because what is being said is not what was shown on screen. Rey could use some powers because she was a huge fangirl and knew that Jedi were capable of doing it. So once she unlocked the force she could use them too. See point about not needing schools anymore. Also, anytime I've ever seen a Jedi mind trick used, the Jedi was looking at target and had to use their hand as well. This is in movies and comics. But Rey does it from across the room, guard behind her, with her hands restrained. So not only does she need no training to do it. She can do it in ways never before seen because it was required by the plot for her to escape. IE, bad writing. So, like I said. If someone wants to ignore bad writing for the purpose of enjoyment of a film, fine. But just say that. Don't sit here and say that it's good writing, IE proper foundation, set up, explanation and depiction. Or that it makes sense in the established universe.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 5, 2020 12:51:44 GMT
You won't find any argument from me.
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 5, 2020 16:59:19 GMT
Aside from Kylo's obvious blood loss, slip against Finn, it's right there in TLJ, "YOU ARE UNBALANCED!!!"
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 17:12:55 GMT
Aside from Kylo's blood obvious loss, slip against Finn, it's right there in TLJ, "YOU ARE UNBALANCED!!!" Blood from the wound he was pounding on with his fist on multiple occasions during the fight with not hint of pain on his part? Yeah, he was so debilitated and in so much pain from his injuries. Finn got a hit in during a fight, how is that a slip. Luke got a hit in on Vader and proceeded to get taken apart just like Finn did. Lastly, if you have to explain something in the following movie you're either just making an excuse due to all the people calling the fight nonsense, or you failed to convey what you were trying to during the previous movie. IE bad writing.
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 5, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
Aside from Kylo's blood obvious loss, slip against Finn, it's right there in TLJ, "YOU ARE UNBALANCED!!!" Blood from the wound he was pounding on with his fist on multiple occasions during the fight with not hint of pain on his part? Yeah, he was so debilitated and in so much pain from his injuries. Finn got a hit in during a fight, how is that a slip. Luke got a hit in on Vader and proceeded to get taken apart just like Finn did. Lastly, if you have to explain something in the following movie you're either just making an excuse due to all the people calling the fight nonsense, or you failed to convey what you were trying to during the previous movie. IE bad writing. Kylo pounding his own wound looks like an act of strength? M'kay. I didn't see it that way at all, more like Kylo in denial, and because I read some EU stuff, maybe sort of twisted attempt to gain strength from pain that might or might not work. Is Finn trained in light-saber combat? More evidence of Kylo's diminished capacity that Finn hit him at all. Kylo's whole presentation is overpowered-and-undisciplined, it doesn't strike me as odd at all that he might not be any good at light-saber combat unless it is Force enhanced, and his use of the Force was probably otherwise directed at that point. Besides, people are apparently STILL complaining about Kylo's loss in TFA, so why not add an extra information in TLJ.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 17:59:51 GMT
Blood from the wound he was pounding on with his fist on multiple occasions during the fight with not hint of pain on his part? Yeah, he was so debilitated and in so much pain from his injuries. Finn got a hit in during a fight, how is that a slip. Luke got a hit in on Vader and proceeded to get taken apart just like Finn did. Lastly, if you have to explain something in the following movie you're either just making an excuse due to all the people calling the fight nonsense, or you failed to convey what you were trying to during the previous movie. IE bad writing. Kylo pounding his own wound looks like an act of strength? M'kay. I didn't see it that way at all, more like Kylo in denial, and because I read some EU stuff, maybe sort of twisted attempt to gain strength from pain that might or might not work. Is Finn trained in light-saber combat? More evidence of Kylo's diminished capacity that Finn hit him at all. Kylo's whole presentation is overpowered-and-undisciplined, it doesn't strike me as odd at all that he might not be any good at light-saber combat unless it is Force enhanced, and his use of the Force was probably otherwise directed at that point. Besides, people are apparently STILL complaining about Kylo's loss in TFA, so why not add an extra information in TLJ. Not a sign of strength, but a sign his wounds weren't bothering him. From what's being said here, pretty much anyone can use a lightsaber and it makes sense as long as the have other combat skills. I said Finn using one was nonsense, only to be told, he has military training, so it makes sense. So which is it? If Kylo got hit for any reason it was overconfidence. When he knocked Finn down he turned his back and started pounding on his mid section again. Instead of pressing the advantage, he let Finn get up. But as soon as Finn got a hit in he took him out immediately, seconds later. He didn't do anything like this against Rey, he pressed her until she was backed up against the cliff, and she got a her unexplained power up. If Kylo has swung his lightsaber and grabbed his side grimacing. Grimaced after he blocked a blow, showing that even blocking was painful. If he had been limping, holding one arm against his side, anything of the sort I could see it. But no one has yet to give me one example during either of these fights where he looked in any way injured or at diminished capacity. If you showed his fight with Rey to 100 people who had never seen the film and asked did he look injured in any way. All 100 people would say no, because he showed not one sign of being injured, slowed, compromised in any way. If he had heard some voice, or seen some vision that caused him to hesitate, let his guard down or anything of this sort allowing his opponent to get a hit in, I would say he was distracted. But once again, he looked completely fine throughout his fight with Finn and Rey until she got stronger. He didn't get weaker, she got stronger for no explained reason. That's why she won the fight, nothing else.
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 5, 2020 18:02:51 GMT
One of my biggest questions about the new trilogy is what exactly is Kylo's deal in the First Order? - Does he believe in the human-first-racism? - Is it a tool to bring order to galaxy? - Is he trying to crush corruption in the new Republic? - Is it all some adolescent reaction to his family because of his belief that Luke wanted to destroy him? - Is Kylo simply hungry for power as a goal in itself? What exactly did he refute (aside from The Emperor and the First Order) when he decided to help Rey that made him "redeemed" to become one with the force?
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