Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2020 18:08:00 GMT
On of my biggest questions about the new trilogy is what exactly is Kylo's deal in the First Order? - Does he believe in the human-first-racism? - Is it a tool to bring order to galaxy? - Is he trying to crush corruption in the new Republic? - Is it all some adolescent reaction to his family because of his belief that Luke wanted to destroy him? - Is Kylo simply hungry for power as a goal in itself? What exactly did he refute (aside from The Emperor and the First Order) when he decided to help Rey that made him "redeemed" to become one with the force?
For The Evulz
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Obadiah
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 5, 2020 18:20:33 GMT
... From what's being said here, pretty much anyone can use a lightsaber and it makes sense as long as the have other combat skills. I said Finn using one was nonsense, only to be told, he has military training, so it makes sense. So which is it? It's that martial experience (what Rey probably has) and training (what Finn probably has) is in fact transferable between weapons to some degree - obviously not to an expert degree. ... If Kylo got hit for any reason it was overconfidence. When he knocked Finn down he turned his back and started pounding on his mid section again. Instead of pressing the advantage, he let Finn get up. But as soon as Finn got a hit in he took him out immediately, seconds later. … So Kylo could get hit for other reasons besides his lack of skill - and maybe lose a fight too. ... He didn't do anything like this against Rey, he pressed her until she was backed up against the cliff, and she got a her unexplained power up. If Kylo has swung his lightsaber and grabbed his side grimacing. Grimaced after he blocked a blow, showing that even blocking was painful. If he had been limping, holding one arm against his side, anything of the sort I could see it. But no one has yet to give me one example during either of these fights where he looked in any way injured or at diminished capacity. If you showed his fight with Rey to 100 people who had never seen the film and asked did he look injured in any way. All 100 people would say no, because he showed not one sign of being injured, slowed, compromised in any way. If he had heard some voice, or seen some vision that caused him to hesitate, let his guard down or anything of this sort allowing his opponent to get a hit in, I would say he was distracted. But once again, he looked completely fine throughout his fight with Finn and Rey until she got stronger. He didn't get weaker, she got stronger for no explained reason. That's why she won the fight, nothing else. So, the general problem with your arguments here is that Kylo lost the fight, and there are in-movie explanations given as to why that would happen. Your whole argument is, "NONONOTHATDOESNTMAKESENSEIKNOWBETTER" *Shrug* Ok... but the answers were given. Like I said, you want a different movie. P.S. Also if you look at the whole fight Kylo does actually look like he is favoring one side - not sure if that was acting or a result of Adam's actual injury.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 18:27:18 GMT
... From what's being said here, pretty much anyone can use a lightsaber and it makes sense as long as the have other combat skills. I said Finn using one was nonsense, only to be told, he has military training, so it makes sense. So which is it? It's that martial training between weapons is in fact transferable to some degree - obviously not to an expert degree. ... If Kylo got hit for any reason it was overconfidence. When he knocked Finn down he turned his back and started pounding on his mid section again. Instead of pressing the advantage, he let Finn get up. But as soon as Finn got a hit in he took him out immediately, seconds later. … So Kylo could get hit for other reasons besides his lack of skill - and maybe lose a fight too. ... He didn't do anything like this against Rey, he pressed her until she was backed up against the cliff, and she got a her unexplained power up. If Kylo has swung his lightsaber and grabbed his side grimacing. Grimaced after he blocked a blow, showing that even blocking was painful. If he had been limping, holding one arm against his side, anything of the sort I could see it. But no one has yet to give me one example during either of these fights where he looked in any way injured or at diminished capacity. If you showed his fight with Rey to 100 people who had never seen the film and asked did he look injured in any way. All 100 people would say no, because he showed not one sign of being injured, slowed, compromised in any way. If he had heard some voice, or seen some vision that caused him to hesitate, let his guard down or anything of this sort allowing his opponent to get a hit in, I would say he was distracted. But once again, he looked completely fine throughout his fight with Finn and Rey until she got stronger. He didn't get weaker, she got stronger for no explained reason. That's why she won the fight, nothing else. So, the general problem with your arguments here is that Kylo lost the fight, and there are in-movie explanations given as to why that would happen. Your whole argument is, "NONONOTHATDOESNTMAKESENSEIKNOWBETTER" *Shrug* Ok... but the answers were given. Like I said, you want a different movie. P.S. Also if you look at the whole fight Kylo does actually look like he is favoring one side - not sure if that was acting or a result of Adam's actual injury. I must have missed where they explained where Rey's extra power came from after closing her eyes. Enlighten me please.
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Post by skekSil on Jan 5, 2020 18:58:54 GMT
I you truly believe something is possible through the force you can do it. Then I asked just to be certain I understood the point. So, if a youngling believes they can lift an X-wing, they can lift an X-wing, even with minimal training? The answer was yes, that youngling could lift that X-wing, it's all about belief. So basically, if both a youngling and a Jedi Grandmaster both truly believe something is possible through the force, the youngling can do whatever the Grandmaster can do. If this is the case why have a temple? Why would Luke start a school? Why have the various stages of Jedi growth? So basically, destroy the established universe rather than admit Rey clearing a landslide of boulders after a few days of knowing the force is unrealistic and bad writing. Yoda and Luke: -Master moving stones is one thing, this is totally different. -No! No different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. -I can't. Its too big. -Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you? After Yoda lifted X-wing -I don't... I don't believe it! -And that is why you fail.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 19:03:42 GMT
... From what's being said here, pretty much anyone can use a lightsaber and it makes sense as long as the have other combat skills. I said Finn using one was nonsense, only to be told, he has military training, so it makes sense. So which is it? It's that martial training between weapons is in fact transferable to some degree - obviously not to an expert degree. ... If Kylo got hit for any reason it was overconfidence. When he knocked Finn down he turned his back and started pounding on his mid section again. Instead of pressing the advantage, he let Finn get up. But as soon as Finn got a hit in he took him out immediately, seconds later. … So Kylo could get hit for other reasons besides his lack of skill - and maybe lose a fight too. ... He didn't do anything like this against Rey, he pressed her until she was backed up against the cliff, and she got a her unexplained power up. If Kylo has swung his lightsaber and grabbed his side grimacing. Grimaced after he blocked a blow, showing that even blocking was painful. If he had been limping, holding one arm against his side, anything of the sort I could see it. But no one has yet to give me one example during either of these fights where he looked in any way injured or at diminished capacity. If you showed his fight with Rey to 100 people who had never seen the film and asked did he look injured in any way. All 100 people would say no, because he showed not one sign of being injured, slowed, compromised in any way. If he had heard some voice, or seen some vision that caused him to hesitate, let his guard down or anything of this sort allowing his opponent to get a hit in, I would say he was distracted. But once again, he looked completely fine throughout his fight with Finn and Rey until she got stronger. He didn't get weaker, she got stronger for no explained reason. That's why she won the fight, nothing else. So, the general problem with your arguments here is that Kylo lost the fight, and there are in-movie explanations given as to why that would happen. Your whole argument is, "NONONOTHATDOESNTMAKESENSEIKNOWBETTER" *Shrug* Ok... but the answers were given. Like I said, you want a different movie. P.S. Also if you look at the whole fight Kylo does actually look like he is favoring one side - not sure if that was acting or a result of Adam's actual injury. Adam Driver is just a good actor. I still find the argument funny that Rey only had depth to her in 9 when I've seen her struggle against these things the entire series. Sure could've used a lot more development in 8 but it was there.
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Obadiah
N5
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Post by Obadiah on Jan 5, 2020 20:15:36 GMT
It's that martial training between weapons is in fact transferable to some degree - obviously not to an expert degree. So Kylo could get hit for other reasons besides his lack of skill - and maybe lose a fight too. So, the general problem with your arguments here is that Kylo lost the fight, and there are in-movie explanations given as to why that would happen. Your whole argument is, "NONONOTHATDOESNTMAKESENSEIKNOWBETTER" *Shrug* Ok... but the answers were given. Like I said, you want a different movie. P.S. Also if you look at the whole fight Kylo does actually look like he is favoring one side - not sure if that was acting or a result of Adam's actual injury. I must have missed where they explained where Rey's extra power came from after closing her eyes. Enlighten me please. Answered here.... bsn.boards.net/post/1330212/thread
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2020 20:44:16 GMT
I you truly believe something is possible through the force you can do it. Then I asked just to be certain I understood the point. So, if a youngling believes they can lift an X-wing, they can lift an X-wing, even with minimal training? The answer was yes, that youngling could lift that X-wing, it's all about belief. So basically, if both a youngling and a Jedi Grandmaster both truly believe something is possible through the force, the youngling can do whatever the Grandmaster can do. If this is the case why have a temple? Why would Luke start a school? Why have the various stages of Jedi growth? So basically, destroy the established universe rather than admit Rey clearing a landslide of boulders after a few days of knowing the force is unrealistic and bad writing. Yoda and Luke: -Master moving stones is one thing, this is totally different. -No! No different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. -I can't. Its too big. -Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you? After Yoda lifted X-wing -I don't... I don't believe it! -And that is why you fail. And so Jake stroked out and died due to his little light show because...?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 21:00:26 GMT
Yoda and Luke: -Master moving stones is one thing, this is totally different. -No! No different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. -I can't. Its too big. -Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you? After Yoda lifted X-wing -I don't... I don't believe it! -And that is why you fail. And so Jake stroked out and died due to his little light show because...? Probably because he projected himself across the Galaxy. Kylo aluded to how something like that would kill *him* earlier in the movie...as in Kylo himself would die if he tried it.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 21:35:14 GMT
That's not an explanation. That's just you saying it must make sense because she was able to do it. Like I've been saying. If you don't really need any explanation to her powers as you said in the post, fine. But don't say it was explained when someone else says it makes no sense. Closing her eyes has no context in anything. It's not like in Bloodsport when Van Damme is blinded, and he closes his eyes and thinks back to when he was training with a blindfold on. That's the context that usually goes along with these moments. Someone closes their eyes and thinks back to some teaching, so training, some words of advice that are relevant to the current situation, and helps them overcome it. Rey just closed her eyes and became stronger with no context in the narrative past, she just can. If you're fine with " I personally didn't need explicit backstory on Rey's knowledge of the Force from stories, clearly she does have this information because that is how she behaves and what she does." Great. But that's not an explanation. That's just she can do it because, reasons. Also, I just watched that scene and the man does no look like he's laboring. He was bleeding on the left side, that's the side he would be favoring, he wasn't. So we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't really care who won the fight, but the outcome and the reasons for the outcome should match what was shown in the movie. If someone is injured, they should look injured. Not I think he may have looked for a couple of moments like it, but I can't really tell. They should look injured. If someone is going through something mentally, they should look distracted. The first the audience is hearing about mental incapacity shouldn't be the next movie. They should be able to tell it from what they saw. Throwing it out after the fact just means the director/writer failed in this regard. Saying that his loss is proof that is was the case is not good story telling or directing. Any time you're using the outcome as the justification, and not what was actually shown, it's just not good storytelling.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2020 22:31:31 GMT
And so Jake stroked out and died due to his little light show because...? Probably because he projected himself across the Galaxy. Kylo aluded to how something like that would kill *him* earlier in the movie...as in Kylo himself would die if he tried it. Why? If size matters not, why should distance?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 22:34:01 GMT
That's not an explanation. That's just you saying it must make sense because she was able to do it. Like I've been saying. If you don't really need any explanation to her powers as you said in the post, fine. But don't say it was explained when someone else says it makes no sense. Closing her eyes has no context in anything. It's not like in Bloodsport when Van Damme is blinded, and he closes his eyes and thinks back to when he was training with a blindfold on. That's the context that usually goes along with these moments. Someone closes their eyes and thinks back to some teaching, so training, some words of advice that are relevant to the current situation, and helps them overcome it. Rey just closed her eyes and became stronger with no context in the narrative past, she just can. If you're fine with " I personally didn't need explicit backstory on Rey's knowledge of the Force from stories, clearly she does have this information because that is how she behaves and what she does." Great. But that's not an explanation. That's just she can do it because, reasons. Also, I just watched that scene and the man does no look like he's laboring. He was bleeding on the left side, that's the side he would be favoring, he wasn't. So we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't really care who won the fight, but the outcome and the reasons for the outcome should match what was shown in the movie. If someone is injured, they should look injured. Not I think he may have looked for a couple of moments like it, but I can't really tell. They should look injured. If someone is going through something mentally, they should look distracted. The first the audience is hearing about mental incapacity shouldn't be the next movie. They should be able to tell it from what they saw. Throwing it out after the fact just means the director/writer failed in this regard. Saying that his loss is proof that is was the case is not good story telling or directing. Any time you're using the outcome as the justification, and not what was actually shown, it's just not good storytelling. with respect, that is an explanation. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't one. Even IRL people often close their eyes to think/ concentrate and it's hardly out of the realm of possibility. Which this is a pattern here. You are just dismissing all the explanations and the logical arguments that me and Obidiah are presenting to you and say 'there is no justification for her force powers'. You may not like them, you may think of them as bad writing, but they are there and...imo at least...they are sufficiently backed up by what we know of the Force from the prequel and Original Trilogies to be justified. And it was clearly demonstrated on screen, not after the fact.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 22:35:55 GMT
Probably because he projected himself across the Galaxy. Kylo aluded to how something like that would kill *him* earlier in the movie...as in Kylo himself would die if he tried it. Why? If size matters not, why should distance? it is a fair point and the only answer is 'I don't know'. My theory is to pull off that stunt Luke basically became a part of the Force anyways already so he died. For me, from a narrative perspective, it works.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 5, 2020 22:41:39 GMT
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2020 22:41:43 GMT
Why? If size matters not, why should distance? it is a fair point and the only answer is 'I don't know'. My theory is to pull off that stunt Luke basically became a part of the Force anyways already so he died. For me, from a narrative perspective, it works. Yeah well from my point of view it's an arbitrary way to shuffle off a character once they were finished ruining him.
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 22:42:51 GMT
That's not an explanation. That's just you saying it must make sense because she was able to do it. Like I've been saying. If you don't really need any explanation to her powers as you said in the post, fine. But don't say it was explained when someone else says it makes no sense. Closing her eyes has no context in anything. It's not like in Bloodsport when Van Damme is blinded, and he closes his eyes and thinks back to when he was training with a blindfold on. That's the context that usually goes along with these moments. Someone closes their eyes and thinks back to some teaching, so training, some words of advice that are relevant to the current situation, and helps them overcome it. Rey just closed her eyes and became stronger with no context in the narrative past, she just can. If you're fine with " I personally didn't need explicit backstory on Rey's knowledge of the Force from stories, clearly she does have this information because that is how she behaves and what she does." Great. But that's not an explanation. That's just she can do it because, reasons. Also, I just watched that scene and the man does no look like he's laboring. He was bleeding on the left side, that's the side he would be favoring, he wasn't. So we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't really care who won the fight, but the outcome and the reasons for the outcome should match what was shown in the movie. If someone is injured, they should look injured. Not I think he may have looked for a couple of moments like it, but I can't really tell. They should look injured. If someone is going through something mentally, they should look distracted. The first the audience is hearing about mental incapacity shouldn't be the next movie. They should be able to tell it from what they saw. Throwing it out after the fact just means the director/writer failed in this regard. Saying that his loss is proof that is was the case is not good story telling or directing. Any time you're using the outcome as the justification, and not what was actually shown, it's just not good storytelling. with respect, that is an explanation. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't one. Even IRL people often close their eyes to think/ concentrate and it's hardly out of the realm of possibility. Which this is a pattern here. You are just dismissing all the explanations and the logical arguments that me and Obidiah are presenting to you and say 'there is no justification for her force powers'. You may not like them, you may think of them as bad writing, but they are there and...imo at least...they are sufficiently backed up by what we know of the Force from the prequel and Original Trilogies to be justified. And it was clearly demonstrated on screen, not after the fact. Where in the prequels and trilogies did people actively use the force with no training whatsoever? Examples please. Also, saying she must have the knowledge because she was able to do it, is not a logical explanation when asked where in the movie was this explained. If you say it was explained, you should be able to cite scenes where it was explained. He even says I don;t need an explanation for her powers. That's clearly admitting that there wasn't an explanation given. That's not dismissing anything. That's what he said.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 22:53:35 GMT
with respect, that is an explanation. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't one. Even IRL people often close their eyes to think/ concentrate and it's hardly out of the realm of possibility. Which this is a pattern here. You are just dismissing all the explanations and the logical arguments that me and Obidiah are presenting to you and say 'there is no justification for her force powers'. You may not like them, you may think of them as bad writing, but they are there and...imo at least...they are sufficiently backed up by what we know of the Force from the prequel and Original Trilogies to be justified. And it was clearly demonstrated on screen, not after the fact. Where in the prequels and trilogies did people actively use the force with no training whatsoever? Examples please. Also, saying she must have the knowledge because she was able to do it, is not a logical explanation when asked where in the movie was this explained. If you say it was explained, you should be able to cite scenes where it was explained. He even says I don;t need an explanation. That's clearly admitting that there wasn't one. Anakin flying the Naboo starfighter in TPM and just so happens to save the day. Anakin's podracing. Also Luke blowing the death star to hell. I may have to rewatch it but I'm quite sure he even closed his eyes there. And just because someone does not have an explanation doesn't mean there isn't one. -Her using her staff her entire life- justifies her ability to use a lightsaber. -her training on flight sims and working on the Falcon- justifies her knowing how to fly it. -her mechanical know how- justifies the stunt with the Star Destroyer. Word of God: when Kylo mind probed her she learned some Force powers from it since it was a two way street- not how I would've taken it but it works. None of this seems out of the realm of possibility given everything we know about Star Wars before hand. And as I keep emphasizing there were other extenuating circumstances that contributed to her success much like with Luke and Anakin. And, contrary to popular opinion, she is never seen as being an expert at any of this and struggles with all of it.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 22:57:48 GMT
Hell Luke force pulled the lightsaber to him in Empire without training...at least none we saw in the movies.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 5, 2020 23:03:10 GMT
The T-16 Luke used to pilot as a kid.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 23:08:49 GMT
Where in the prequels and trilogies did people actively use the force with no training whatsoever? Examples please. Also, saying she must have the knowledge because she was able to do it, is not a logical explanation when asked where in the movie was this explained. If you say it was explained, you should be able to cite scenes where it was explained. He even says I don;t need an explanation. That's clearly admitting that there wasn't one. Anakin flying the Naboo starfighter in TPM and just so happens to save the day. Anakin's podracing. Also Luke blowing the death star to hell. I may have to rewatch it but I'm quite sure he even closed his eyes there. And just because someone does not have an explanation doesn't mean there isn't one. -Her using her staff her entire life- justifies her ability to use a lightsaber. -her training on flight sims and working on the Falcon- justifies her knowing how to fly it. -her mechanical know how- justifies the stunt with the Star Destroyer. Word of God: when Kylo mind probed her she learned some Force powers from it since it was a two way street- not how I would've taken it but it works. None of this seems out of the realm of possibility given everything we know about Star Wars before hand. And as I keep emphasizing there were other extenuating circumstances that con 1) Anakin used no force powers active or passive in the Naboo Fighter. He got in the cockpit, and autopilot took all the fighters into space. He wasn't even flying. When he took off autopilot he was shot down, crashed in the ship. He fixed the fighter along with R2, and then just pulled a trigger before he flew out. No force involved. 2) Anakin pod racing isn't actively using the force. It's a trait of having good reflexes that comes with being force sensitive. Qui-Gon says it in the movie. 3) I can't even believe you brought this up. Luke when he's going down the trench hears Obi-Wans voice when he closes his eyes telling to him reach out with the force. The same way he did earlier in the movie when he was practicing with Obi-wan on the Falcon. Then when he opened his eyes, he turns off his targeting computer and uses the force. This is clear example of what I talking about earlier. Also, I don't know what the disconnect here is, but. If you say that something was explained in the movie, in the narrative, you should be able to reference where that was done. If you want to believe an explanation is out there fine. But there wasn't one in the movie/narrative, which was the statement that was made.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 5, 2020 23:11:56 GMT
Hell Luke force pulled the lightsaber to him in Empire without training...at least none we saw in the movies. TESB takes place 2 years after ANH and that timeline was established by Lucas nearly 4 decades ago. Luke the son of force Jesus who was stated by WoG to have the same potential as Anakin struggled to accomplish the feat while Rey effortlessly pulled Anakin's saber from Kylo's hand with no effort after only recently discovering the force was real. Pre TRoS Rey is a fantastical character.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 23:13:13 GMT
Anakin flying the Naboo starfighter in TPM and just so happens to save the day. Anakin's podracing. Also Luke blowing the death star to hell. I may have to rewatch it but I'm quite sure he even closed his eyes there. And just because someone does not have an explanation doesn't mean there isn't one. -Her using her staff her entire life- justifies her ability to use a lightsaber. -her training on flight sims and working on the Falcon- justifies her knowing how to fly it. -her mechanical know how- justifies the stunt with the Star Destroyer. Word of God: when Kylo mind probed her she learned some Force powers from it since it was a two way street- not how I would've taken it but it works. None of this seems out of the realm of possibility given everything we know about Star Wars before hand. And as I keep emphasizing there were other extenuating circumstances that con 1) Anakin used no force powers active or passive in the Naboo Fighter. He got in the cockpit, and autopilot took all the fighters into space. He wasn't even flying. When he took it off autopilot he was shot down, landed in her hanger. He fixed the fighter along with R2, and then just pulled a trigger before he flew out. No force involved. 2) Anakin pod racing isn't actively using the force. It's a trait of having good reflexes that comes with being force sensitive. Qui-Gon says it in the movie. 3) I can't even believe you brought this up. Luke when he's going down the trench hears Obi-Wans voice when he closes his eyes telling to reach out with the force. The same way he did earlier in the movie when he was practicing with Obi-wan on the Falcon. Then when he opened his eyes, he turns off his targeting computer and uses the force. This is clear example of what I talking about earlier. Also, I don't know what the disconnect here is but. If you say that something was explained in the movie, in the narrative, you should be able to reference where that was done. If you want to believe an explanation is out there fine. But there wasn't one in the movie/narrative, which was the statement that was made. Again there was, everything I bought up was in the movie...except for the flight sim thing which was bought up in a supplemental book...much like Luke's training that justifies the Death Star trench run. As far as Anakin is concerned he was using the Force. It's the only way to justify the events in TPM...or the Force was using him...otherwise hes a Stu.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2020 23:13:56 GMT
Hell Luke force pulled the lightsaber to him in Empire without training...at least none we saw in the movies. TESB takes place 2 years after ANH and that timeline was established by Lucas nearly 4 decades ago. Luke the son of force Jesus who was stated by WoG to have the same potential as Anakin struggled to accomplish the feat while Rey effortlessly pulled Anakin's saber from Kylo's hand with no effort after only recently discovering the force was real. Pre TRoS Rey is a fantastical character. These are all fantastical characters.
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skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by skekSil on Jan 5, 2020 23:16:50 GMT
Yoda and Luke: -Master moving stones is one thing, this is totally different. -No! No different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. -I can't. Its too big. -Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size do you? After Yoda lifted X-wing -I don't... I don't believe it! -And that is why you fail. And so Jake stroked out and died due to his little light show because...? Why not? We don't really know how the Force works. Obi-Wan said that he would become even more powerful if Vader kills him so there is something limiting in being alive. Maybe it was because there is a limit to what ones body can endure or how much of the Force can be used. It was obviously a narrative decision. Why did Kenobi died, he didn't lost a fight? Why did Vader died, couldn't he use his knowledge of Force to defend from Emperor's lightning? It was needed for the story it wasn't a result of a complete and logicaly consistant theory of The Force.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
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cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Jan 5, 2020 23:25:15 GMT
1) Anakin used no force powers active or passive in the Naboo Fighter. He got in the cockpit, and autopilot took all the fighters into space. He wasn't even flying. When he took it off autopilot he was shot down, landed in her hanger. He fixed the fighter along with R2, and then just pulled a trigger before he flew out. No force involved. 2) Anakin pod racing isn't actively using the force. It's a trait of having good reflexes that comes with being force sensitive. Qui-Gon says it in the movie. 3) I can't even believe you brought this up. Luke when he's going down the trench hears Obi-Wans voice when he closes his eyes telling to reach out with the force. The same way he did earlier in the movie when he was practicing with Obi-wan on the Falcon. Then when he opened his eyes, he turns off his targeting computer and uses the force. This is clear example of what I talking about earlier. Also, I don't know what the disconnect here is but. If you say that something was explained in the movie, in the narrative, you should be able to reference where that was done. If you want to believe an explanation is out there fine. But there wasn't one in the movie/narrative, which was the statement that was made. Again there was, everything I bought up was in the movie...except for the flight sim thing which was bought up in a supplemental book...much like Luke's training that justifies the Death Star trench run. As far as Anakin is concerned he was using the Force. It's the only way to justify the events in TPM...or the Force was using him...otherwise hes a Stu. Obviously being shot down in the exact location he needed to be to blow up the reactor is suspect to say the least. But doesn't change the fact that he didn't actively use the force during that battle or at any other time in the movie. He was conceived by the force, and had the greatest potential of any of the protagonists in all the trilogies, and he couldn't even use his power until he received some training.
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Post by skekSil on Jan 5, 2020 23:36:22 GMT
2) Anakin pod racing isn't actively using the force. It's a trait of having good reflexes that comes with being force sensitive. Qui-Gon says it in the movie. "He can see things before they happen, that's why he appears to have such quick reflexes" Qui-Gon Jinn Isn't that using the Force without training? 3) I can't even believe you brought this up. Luke when he's going down the trench hears Obi-Wans voice when he closes his eyes telling to him reach out with the force. The same way he did earlier in the movie when he was practicing with Obi-wan on the Falcon. Then when he opened his eyes, he turns off his targeting computer and uses the force. This is clear example of what I talking about earlier. So Obi-Wan tells him to use the Force and Luke uses it, where is the contradiction? Its not shown that Obi-Wan helps him in any other way in that scene,he just tells him to use it. And all the training he had up to that point was a short lesson on Millenium Falcon.
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