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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:04:03 GMT
Being disappointed in the new movies is fine, but some of the extreme negativity feels like some fans being bitter that the movies aren't the same as the idealised version they'd already written in their heads. It's not Disney's fault that anything they do will invariably fail to live up to our expectations, while Jossing our speculations at the same time. Because everyone in the world should agree on what would constitute the perfect Star Wars sequel, right? I'm not trying to be an apologist for the new films (because they do have flaws/problems), but it does sometimes appear like we're holding these new films to an impossible standard and getting angry/disappointed when they fail to meet the hype or our own (slightly unrealistic) expectations.
But all in all the old EU was a mess I'm a complete pleb but I will judge literally hundreds of comics, books and more and through out broad generalizations, good to know.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:04:53 GMT
They failed to stop the Sith, yes. But Obi-Won dedicated twenty years of his life to ensure Luke grew up safely and set him on the path to become a Jedi. Yoda spent twenty years in a swamp, but in the end trained Luke to be a Jedi. Not like Han, who ran out on his family, or Luke, who completely gave up on life after a single failure. but in the end rose to save the day and the Resistance from the First Order. ...Not really though.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:06:59 GMT
SW JJBA Thread aficionados Just Star Wars thread, I will not refer to it by the self imposed moniker of some rando mod.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:09:17 GMT
but in the end rose to save the day and the Resistance from the First Order. ...Not really though. How can one honestly have a different inrepretation of those events? Who else saved the Resistance?
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N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 24, 2018 22:13:24 GMT
SW JJBA Thread aficionados Just Star Wars thread, I will not refer to it by the self imposed moniker of some rando mod. Sarcasm is dead here.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:14:21 GMT
How can one honestly have a different inrepretation of those events? Who else saved the Resistance? No, he set the ground work for Mary Rey Sue to save the galaxy, he died, and allowed them to survive to the finale. I know about narrative structuring and act structuring dudebro. More to the point, he did without accomplishing anything but allowing that, ultimately saving nothing, and accomplishing nothing. He pulled a Ben in EP4. Except this time the Death Star wasn't blown up. ._.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:14:38 GMT
Just Star Wars thread, I will not refer to it by the self imposed moniker of some rando mod. Sarcasm is dead here. Damn straight
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 24, 2018 22:16:37 GMT
Sarcasm is dead here. Damn straight Then I will make it live again.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:21:44 GMT
How can one honestly have a different inrepretation of those events? Who else saved the Resistance? No, he set the ground work for Mary Rey Sue to save the galaxy, he died, and allowed them to survive to the finale. I know about narrative structuring and act structuring dudebro. More to the point, he did without accomplishing anything but allowing that, ultimately saving nothing, and accomplishing nothing. He pulled a Ben in EP4. Except this time the Death Star wasn't blown up. ._. Can I say its kind of cute that you still think you know where this is going? Regardless I am talking about events of the Last Jedi here not some unknown future movie we haven't even seen yet. And in that movie Luke saved the day, not Rey who failed, Poe who faied, Finn who failed, but Luke. Without Luke making his sacrifice no one was going to be getting off that planet alive. I mean hell even if you are right about Rey saving the day in the end she wouldn't have been able to without Luke bailing her tuckus out of the fire in Jedi. Just like Obi-Wan in New Hope.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 24, 2018 22:36:53 GMT
But all in all the old EU was a mess I'm a complete pleb but I will judge literally hundreds of comics, books and more and through out broad generalizations, good to know. It’s a fact that the old EU was a jumbled mess. Some good stuff but a lot of mes too. And I’m tired of being insulted for my opinion.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 24, 2018 22:37:45 GMT
I was watching Rey and Kylo Ren's Lightsaber fight from Force Awakens last night and smething occured to me: In the Force Awakens novelization Rey heard a voice that basically implored her to kill Kylo. The overt implication being she was being influenced by the Dark Side during that part of that scene. But, what if it was during that entire bit when she started tapping into the Force? What if it wasn't the light side that she was tapping into, as the music suggested and as I think the common theory holds, but the dark side? Suddenly that scene makes a lot more sense...then it already did. We know that Kylo was emotionally compromised during the entire movie, lines in both The Last Jedi and Force Awakens prove it, we know he wasn't fully commited and was looking...begging!...to his Grandfather's helmet to show him da way. Then on the other side we have a woman who has every reason to be emotionally distrought, hates Kylo Ren with a passion...again as both Last Jedi and Force Awakens indicates...so what if she fed into the hate there? We know how powerful that can make force users. Yeah, it is a thing you will notice when the hero Force user in Star Wars faces the villain, they frequently appear to give in to anger and draw on the Dark Side. It happened when Luke thought Vader was threatening his sister, it happened when Obi Wan faced Darth Maul after Qui-Gon Jinn was defeated, obviously Anakin kept doing it to disastrous results, and when Rey uses the Force against Kylo at TFA climax - most definitely.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:38:00 GMT
I'm a complete pleb but I will judge literally hundreds of comics, books and more and through out broad generalizations, good to know. It’s a fact that the old EU was a jumbled mess. Maybe if you had read some of it, I'd take that opinion seriously, me? I read dozens of novels and comics in it, I can judge it and judge it fairly. You just repeat what you read on Reddit.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 24, 2018 22:38:15 GMT
No, he set the ground work for Mary Rey Sue to save the galaxy, he died, and allowed them to survive to the finale. I know about narrative structuring and act structuring dudebro. More to the point, he did without accomplishing anything but allowing that, ultimately saving nothing, and accomplishing nothing. He pulled a Ben in EP4. Except this time the Death Star wasn't blown up. ._. Can I say its kind of cute that you still think you know where this is going? Regardless I am talking about events of the Last Jedi here not some unknown future movie we haven't even seen yet. And in that movie Luke saved the day, not Rey who failed, Poe who faied, Finn who failed, but Luke. Without Luke making his sacrifice no one was going to be getting off that planet alive. I mean hell even if you are right about Rey saving the day in the end she wouldn't have been able to without Luke bailing her tuckus out of the fire in Jedi. Just like Obi-Wan in New Hope. The only hope I can see is they pull an indoctrination theory spin with ep 9 or.. 10. Scene opens with Rey opening her eyes at the battle with Kylo from TFA and the rest of it is her trying to keep the events of ep 8 from happening. Comical to think they would even pull such a stupid idea... scary if they actually did.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 24, 2018 22:39:03 GMT
No, he set the ground work for Mary Rey Sue to save the galaxy, he died, and allowed them to survive to the finale. I know about narrative structuring and act structuring dudebro. More to the point, he did without accomplishing anything but allowing that, ultimately saving nothing, and accomplishing nothing. He pulled a Ben in EP4. Except this time the Death Star wasn't blown up. ._. Can I say its kind of cute that you still think you know where this is going? Its not like they have ripped off the script from novels up until this point so... Long as they keep doing that, I can at least predict with confidence
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:41:23 GMT
I was watching Rey and Kylo Ren's Lightsaber fight from Force Awakens last night and smething occured to me: In the Force Awakens novelization Rey heard a voice that basically implored her to kill Kylo. The overt implication being she was being influenced by the Dark Side during that part of that scene. But, what if it was during that entire bit when she started tapping into the Force? What if it wasn't the light side that she was tapping into, as the music suggested and as I think the common theory holds, but the dark side? Suddenly that scene makes a lot more sense...then it already did. We know that Kylo was emotionally compromised during the entire movie, lines in both The Last Jedi and Force Awakens prove it, we know he wasn't fully commited and was looking...begging!...to his Grandfather's helmet to show him da way. Then on the other side we have a woman who has every reason to be emotionally distrought, hates Kylo Ren with a passion...again as both Last Jedi and Force Awakens indicates...so what if she fed into the hate there? We know how powerful that can make force users. Yeah, it is a thing you will notice when the hero Force user in Star Wars faces the villain, they frequently appear to give in to anger and draw on the Dark Side. It happened when Luke thought Vader was threatening his sister, it happened when Obi Wan faced Darth Maul after Qui-Gon Jinn was defeated, obviously Anakin kept doing it to disastrous results, when Rey uses the Force against Kylo at TFA climax. most definitely. True. And my favorite Jedi/ Force Sensitives are those who fall more in the middle and can use the 'Dark Side' and not end up giving into it. So Luke, Obi-Wan, Kylo, and Jaina from the EU. At the end of the day Rey might go in that camp too but we haven't seen her really struggle with it. I was just using my post to point out another bit of potential evidence on 'how can a girl with no training beat Kylo!' argument. Edit: I meant Reven and not Kylo for favorite force sensitive's that do not give into the Dark Side. Though Kylo is an interesting bad guy in his own right in some ways...
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 24, 2018 22:43:11 GMT
Can I say its kind of cute that you still think you know where this is going? Its not like they have ripped off the script from novels up until this point so... Long as they keep doing that, I can at least predict with confidence Yeah not a creative bone left... Must have had Rancor stampede.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2018 22:45:07 GMT
SW JJBA Thread aficionados Just Star Wars thread, I will not refer to it by the self imposed moniker of some rando mod. (who says I can't do 'on topic' )
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jun 24, 2018 22:46:34 GMT
Yeah, it is a thing you will notice when the hero Force user in Star Wars faces the villain, they frequently appear to give in to anger and draw on the Dark Side. It happened when Luke thought Vader was threatening his sister, it happened when Obi Wan faced Darth Maul after Qui-Gon Jinn was defeated, obviously Anakin kept doing it to disastrous results, when Rey uses the Force against Kylo at TFA climax. most definitely. True. And my favorite Jedi/ Force Sensitives are those who fall more in the middle and can use the 'Dark Side' and not end up giving into it. So Luke, Obi-Wan, Kylo, and Jaina from the EU. At the end of the day Rey might go in that camp too but we haven't seen her really struggle with it. I was just using my post to point out another bit of potential evidence on 'how can a girl with no training beat Kylo!' argument. Gray Jedi: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:46:50 GMT
Just Star Wars thread, I will not refer to it by the self imposed moniker of some rando mod. (who says I can't do 'on topic' )I am altering the thread title pray I do not alter it further! (btw I am officially lodging a protest in changing the name of the thread in the first place that was a rather...unique...form of moderation but then I can't actually do anything about it)
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:50:12 GMT
True. And my favorite Jedi/ Force Sensitives are those who fall more in the middle and can use the 'Dark Side' and not end up giving into it. So Luke, Obi-Wan, Kylo, and Jaina from the EU. At the end of the day Rey might go in that camp too but we haven't seen her really struggle with it. I was just using my post to point out another bit of potential evidence on 'how can a girl with no training beat Kylo!' argument. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_JediNot exactly talking about Grey Jedi per se because Grey Jedi more is like a moral outlook on the Force...one I sort of share. Though on the face of it characters like Luke and Revan kind of indicate that maybe a more 'gray' philosophy is actually a more accurate one in regards to the Force.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 24, 2018 22:52:15 GMT
Yeah, it is a thing you will notice when the hero Force user in Star Wars faces the villain, they frequently appear to give in to anger and draw on the Dark Side. It happened when Luke thought Vader was threatening his sister, it happened when Obi Wan faced Darth Maul after Qui-Gon Jinn was defeated, obviously Anakin kept doing it to disastrous results, when Rey uses the Force against Kylo at TFA climax. most definitely. True. And my favorite Jedi/ Force Sensitives are those who fall more in the middle and can use the 'Dark Side' and not end up giving into it. So Luke, Obi-Wan, Kylo, and Jaina from the EU. At the end of the day Rey might go in that camp too but we haven't seen her really struggle with it. I was just using my post to point out another bit of potential evidence on 'how can a girl with no training beat Kylo!' argument. Edit: I meant Reven and not Kylo for favorite force sensitive's that do not give into the Dark Side. Though Kylo is an interesting bad guy in his own right in some ways... Yeah making the grey Jedi cannon might be a good idea.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 22:58:45 GMT
True. And my favorite Jedi/ Force Sensitives are those who fall more in the middle and can use the 'Dark Side' and not end up giving into it. So Luke, Obi-Wan, Kylo, and Jaina from the EU. At the end of the day Rey might go in that camp too but we haven't seen her really struggle with it. I was just using my post to point out another bit of potential evidence on 'how can a girl with no training beat Kylo!' argument. Edit: I meant Reven and not Kylo for favorite force sensitive's that do not give into the Dark Side. Though Kylo is an interesting bad guy in his own right in some ways... Yeah making the grey Jedi cannon might be a good idea. Honestly I thought that was the way they were going to go in TLJ and there is some evidence in the movie's narrative that a more 'gray' perspective on the Force might be right in the end the movie still kind of ended up strengthening the light/dark Jedi orthodox position on the whole subject. Luke ended up affirming the Jedi Order...and rightfully so...just a Jedi Order that hopefully will learn from the failures of the old one and be better for it. And if I may make a predicition for a second because I know everyone will say 'yeah Mary Rey Sue...of course she will lead a better Jedi' I'm not convinced she even will lead the Jedi into the new age again. Granted at this point and time there is no other likely candidate to do so but since the Last Jedi does seem to be borrowing from KOTOR 2 more then anything it would not surprise me if Rey sacrifices herself or goes into exile at the end of Episode IX leaving it up to a 'new generation' of Jedi. All of this story could just be a mid wife to paving the way for a brighter future, not the brighter future itself. After all TLJ already (rightfully) blew the vaunted Skywalker legacy all to hell it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if the person everyone assumes is the hero of the piece, the great Mary Sue Rey herself, isn't just another cog in the machine.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 24, 2018 23:08:03 GMT
(who says I can't do 'on topic' )I am altering the thread title pray I do not alter it further! (btw I am officially lodging a protest in changing the name of the thread in the first place that was a rather...unique...form of moderation but then I can't actually do anything about it)
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Post by colfoley on Jun 24, 2018 23:09:55 GMT
I am altering the thread title pray I do not alter it further! (btw I am officially lodging a protest in changing the name of the thread in the first place that was a rather...unique...form of moderation but then I can't actually do anything about it) That scene still always gives me chills, John Williams score was truly superb there.
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Post by Nayawk on Jun 24, 2018 23:16:01 GMT
So I finally caved and read the storyboard 'spoilers' for the next movie. Truck load of salt as always as to just how true they are, but if we look at them at face value, there are a few things I like and few I really don't. Like:
Ren being a competent/clever ruler, Hux betraying him, the force bond still around. Knights of Ren popping back up.
Dislike:
the baby / leia saving Rey stuff Of course all this sounds like it was planned before Carrie Fisher died.
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