Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 8, 2016 18:21:05 GMT
The city was in much disarray when Hawke 1st came on to the scene and the Templars had bigger problems and fish to fry. Then before they knew it Hawke had become a rather influential and powerful person wiyh equally powerful allies. The city made use of his/her talents in a number of ways and the thought of getting tough with Hawke and his associates was not a pleasant one, thus the powers that be thought it better to look the other way than go after him.
Of course all things templar/mage comes to a head at the end and then Hawke is in the bad books once he/she becomes more of a liability than an asset.
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Dovahkiin N7
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Post by Dovahkiin N7 on Aug 10, 2016 15:18:36 GMT
As much as I love playing a mage Hawke, I agree with this. It's just odd, especially considering the way mages were being treated in the Kirkwall circle, that Hawke was able to run around free as a bird. I can see by Ch.3 how being the Champion might be protection, but before that? Just doesn't make much sense. Which is why I try not to think about it too hard when I'm playing. Me too love playing this game. In fact I am going to start a new game DA2 and as usual, play until the before Anders blows up the chantry. Because despite hating the entire logic, I like the combat and challenge of nightmare difficulty. I want to beat Xbenceck or Nexus golum fight without running out of the room. And the DLCs. They are joy to play. I totally agree with OP. It is like the whole story was written by a drunk moron. There I said it. Even without Hawke being Mage there was blood Mage in my team.
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outlaworacle
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If it's alive, don't lick it
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Post by outlaworacle on Aug 10, 2016 18:03:13 GMT
They really shat the bed on implementing Mage Hawke. It requires near-constant headcanoning to make it work, yet my main Hawke is a mage because the mage experience is so singularly fantastic in DA2.
As I recall, the excuse was always gameplay/story segregation, bla bla bla, but it's so badly done. Even BG2 did the same basic idea better. I know the game was rushed and there's only so many resources but considering how the whole story revolves around mages, Kirkwall's attitude towards mages, mage's rights... the idea that your main character being a mage getting totally ignored for the first two thirds of the game (and then handwaived in the last act) is pretty disappointing.
Those staff attacks, tho.
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Post by Dovahkiin N7 on Aug 10, 2016 18:37:47 GMT
They really shat the bed on implementing Mage Hawke. It requires near-constant headcanoning to make it work, yet my main Hawke is a mage because the mage experience is so singularly fantastic in DA2. As I recall, the excuse was always gameplay/story segregation, bla bla bla, but it's so badly done. Even BG2 did the same basic idea better. I know the game was rushed and there's only so many resources but considering how the whole story revolves around mages, Kirkwall's attitude towards mages, mage's rights... the idea that your main character being a mage getting totally ignored for the first two thirds of the game (and then handwaived in the last act) is pretty disappointing. Those staff attacks, tho. I could care less about the graphics and reused dungeons. Story! It should make some sense. DA2 did not make any sense to me. Merril and Anders were so important that you couldn't finish the game without them. This completely overshadowed the whole Mage-Templar thing imo. I liked that premise and liked how you could not either love/hate either or another. That how indispensable Anders was despite I wanted to kill him in chapter 2. This intensity of struggle between Templars and mages was completely reduced to jokes once I engaged in a battle ( which by the way my most loved part in whole DA triology). I had to shut down my inquisitor mind while I enagaged in battle. I am still out of ideas when there are more than one hunters/assassins in enemy team. DA2 Dlc though. They are favorite out of all DA and Mass effect triology. Malvernis, Corepheus, Duke prosper, Sky horror, puzzles. Well done bioware. And appetently writers were not allowed to consume alcohol when they wrote it.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 10, 2016 18:59:03 GMT
Believable or unbelievable, for me the best choice is mage Hawke for the story (bonus point: Carver) Honestly never confused me during the game, that the mage would be incredible: I just played. Yes, it's not perfect, have some game mechanical issues, and some lame storytelling, but I still able to correct the bugs in my mind.
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angelique
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Post by angelique on Aug 22, 2016 19:39:07 GMT
I tend to go with the whole, Meredith wasn't insane in the beginning and Hawke was cleaning up all those blood mages, plus Hawke always had Varric sort of helping hide him/her in ACT1. The Templars were having issues of their own even before Meredith became an insane lyrium demon thing. In Act 2 Hawke was helping with the Qunari problem and considering the Vicount didn't give a nugs butt about ACTUALLY doing his job of course he was probably protecting Hawke. By Act 3 Meredith was too busy seeing all apostates as blood mages and losing her mind to really care. Granted all this is only my opinion. I have recently come to the conclusion I am not in the majority when I pick sides in DA2 anyway so take it with a grain of salt I suppose.
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angelique
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Post by angelique on Aug 22, 2016 19:53:28 GMT
Oh, Also, as my sister pointed out. Based on Codex it seems Kirkwall has always had a bloody history. That being the case (probably all that red lyrium and Corypheous in the Vimmark Mts) 1 mage in all of Kirkwall with ALL those refugees and loose mages and Hawke isn't causing any real issues and has friends who cover for him/her. That makes a huge difference. Granted DA2 has a lot of plot issues but this one in particular I see as not really that difficult to explain compared to some of the others. I mean come on. Cullen and the Templars have a clue about Bethany for all of Act 1. LOL Cullen even says "I've heard rumors about your sister, I hope they aren't true" I seem to recall him saying something similar to Hawke about her/himself but that could have been that Sophie's Choice mod I had installed.
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dayze
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Post by dayze on Aug 27, 2016 23:00:31 GMT
Also; mage-Hawke could fight.
Remember the trailer where he spends the first 90% of it doing straight forward staff combat with a Qunari who just went through a legion of Templar's?
Yeah I know; trailer cinematic and all that, but just pointing out how even as a Mage with combat being pretty secondary, Hawke was still heads and tails above 97% of other warriors out there.
Of course; bloodmages can control minds, though I think it was officially stated in the canon DA story line(s) Hawke was never a blood mage.
Ironically enough, making one of the things that would explain away these kind of inconsistencies as non-canon.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 28, 2016 1:30:57 GMT
Hawke does have the benefit of having 25 years to learn how to blend in to regular society and hide their magic from people.
In comparison, you'd expect some level of social maladjustment from an Apostate who has never been outside of the tower for the majority of their life, making it far harder for them to be able to hide in a crowd without giving the game away.
It'd be a requirement for any Apostate who wants to remain free that they'd have to learn to fight without using magic, to avoid drawing unwanted attention to themselves. So even if the game has Hawke using magic in front of people, the in-universe explanation is that Hawke was instead using their staff solely as a melee weapon.
From Meredith's comment and reaction to a Mage Hawke in Demands of the Qun, she's had suspicions for a while based on how often Hawke appears in her reports, but she's never been able to prove they're a mage because they've never openly been seen using magic.
Cullen's comments suggest he's heard some rumours about Hawke, while Thrask probably suspected, but kept quiet as he has pro-Mage leanings.
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Beregond5
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Post by Beregond5 on Aug 29, 2016 16:37:05 GMT
I just tell myself that it's Varric telling the story and he can't help but embellish just to show how awesome Hawke is. It certainly worked with the bandits exploding to bloody chunks everywhere. And Hawke certainly has the body to handle melee combat. Maybe, in truth, he just used the stave as a weapon (like a bo); until he didn't really need to hide himself anymore, that is.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 2, 2016 5:57:12 GMT
In the beginning, Hawke is protected by whomever s/he is working for.
And after rising to fame and wealth, that is what keeps the templars away, which is actually mentioned by Meredith herself.
It's not that complicated.
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eriador117
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Post by eriador117 on Sept 6, 2016 14:12:15 GMT
I always just took it that Hawke was being protected, first by Varric and the smugglers/mercenaries, then in Act 2 by the Viscount who wanted Hawke to deal with the Qunari problem and then in Act 3 he was the Champion with power and wealth. Meredith couldn't outright attack him without alienating half the city. But she knew he was a mage and she was just biding her time until she could go after him and she got her chance during the Last Straw. But she was so paranoid and insane by then that things would never have worked out the way she wanted.
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Post by dayze on Sept 7, 2016 0:54:55 GMT
In the beginning, Hawke is protected by whomever s/he is working for. And after rising to fame and wealth, that is what keeps the templars away, which is actually mentioned by Meredith herself. It's not that complicated. I think the guy is saying that in-universe or whatever, that it's consistently shown that those "aren't enough" to actually do the job. Various nobles etc....have all lost their children. If your a mage or your kid is a mage, you don't just get to run around once it becomes known basically.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 7, 2016 1:01:42 GMT
I think the guy is saying that in-universe or whatever, that it's consistently shown that those "aren't enough" to actually do the job. Various nobles etc....have all lost their children. If your a mage or your kid is a mage, you don't just get to run around once it becomes known basically. Hawke was a noble and have supporters. Most of the mages don't have anyone.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 7, 2016 1:46:05 GMT
If your a mage or your kid is a mage, you don't just get to run around once it becomes known basically. Hawke was only outed as a Mage during Demands of the Qun, at which point, they saved the city and became Champion of Kirkwall. If you get too snarky with her in Act 3, Meredith tells Hawke that their continued freedom (and that of their friends) has it's limits. This would suggest that Hawke's popularity with the people keeps them from being sent to the Circle, so Meredith levied their continued freedom in exchange for serving the city (and thus Meredith) when it's required. So Hawke is essentially free and still effectively on a leash in Act 3.
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Post by dayze on Sept 8, 2016 0:16:38 GMT
If your a mage or your kid is a mage, you don't just get to run around once it becomes known basically. Hawke was only outed as a Mage during Demands of the Qun, at which point, they saved the city and became Champion of Kirkwall. If you get too snarky with her in Act 3, Meredith tells Hawke that their continued freedom (and that of their friends) has it's limits. This would suggest that Hawke's popularity with the people keeps them from being sent to the Circle, so Meredith levied their continued freedom in exchange for serving the city (and thus Meredith) when it's required. So Hawke is essentially free and still effectively on a leash in Act 3. The problem is; most people don't play the game in a way that you can legitimately say that Hawke should have taken that long to be discovered. And by comparison; Anders didn't have it as easy, despite being liked by the people. Though there are ways Hawke could have used his magic in not blatant ways to not be caught. Force Mage Hawk got an extra +125% to his physical attacks, could make himself more resistant to attacks and slow his enemies down. That could be played off as "uber warrior" pretty easily. Blood magic has mind control powers. Spirit Healer's presence could make allies more resilient. There are ways that it's conceivable you could play a mage Hawke and not get caught. But I doubt most players played that way.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 8, 2016 0:25:37 GMT
The problem is; most people don't play the game in a way that you can legitimately say that Hawke should have taken that long to be discovered. And by comparison; Anders didn't have it as easy, despite being liked by the people. Though there are ways Hawke could have used his magic in not blatant ways to not be caught. Force Mage Hawk got an extra +125% to his physical attacks, could make himself more resistant to attacks and slow his enemies down. That could be played off as "uber warrior" pretty easily. Blood magic has mind control powers. Spirit Healer's presence could make allies more resilient. There are ways that it's conceivable you could play a mage Hawke and not get caught. But I doubt most players played that way. For example my Hawke looking as a rogue, he never wear robe... one of them was force specced, the other was blood. Ofc, I'm not so precise on this point, but yes. It's believable. Just need a little imagination.
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Beregond5
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Post by Beregond5 on Sept 8, 2016 8:04:23 GMT
The problem is; most people don't play the game in a way that you can legitimately say that Hawke should have taken that long to be discovered. And by comparison; Anders didn't have it as easy, despite being liked by the people. Though there are ways Hawke could have used his magic in not blatant ways to not be caught. Force Mage Hawk got an extra +125% to his physical attacks, could make himself more resistant to attacks and slow his enemies down. That could be played off as "uber warrior" pretty easily. Blood magic has mind control powers. Spirit Healer's presence could make allies more resilient. There are ways that it's conceivable you could play a mage Hawke and not get caught. But I doubt most players played that way. For example my Hawke looking as a rogue, he never wear robe... one of them was force specced, the other was blood. Ofc, I'm not so precise on this point, but yes. It's believable. Just need a little imagination. Exactly. Considering robes: I didn't really like most of the gear that the game expected a mage Hawke to wear. One, it's rather counter-productive to wear something that screams 'Mage' a mile away when you're trying to do the exact opposite, and two (and shallower reason)... is it just me, or the mage robes look really horrible on Hawke? Not so much on Female Hawke, but, on Male Hawke, they're plain awful (with the exception of the Champion mantle). That and, well, with all the fighting, you'd expect even a mage Hawke would need to wear something that would allow them to move in. A pet peeve of mine, I suppose, and I don't allow it to break my immersion of the game. It's still weird though.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 8, 2016 8:47:19 GMT
The two Mage Pack DLCs did give some mage equipment that at least looked more passable as normal street clothing or light armour, such as the Fugitive's Mantle and Aldenon's Vestments.
I prefer to wear those DLC armours because they're both superior stat-wise and in appearance than any other mage gear in DA2, save for the Champion's Mantle. I do agree that the various robes we could get in the vanilla game made no sense for an apostate to wear.
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Post by wickedcool on Sept 9, 2016 14:09:48 GMT
For those of you who agree with the theory that hawke could not live freely in the city as a mage i would like to give you a real life recent example
whitey bulger- mobster. Enabled by government, fbi, police and media to remain free to do what he wanted. (Over 20 years) Hawke was being watched and had a long leash. Long list of historical figures who were known to be bad people but only watched from afar
Wearing armor from dragon guts. Ever see or kniw someone who used a strainer because dog swallowed a valuable ring/etc
Fishermen do this all the time for partially digested stuff from sharks/gators
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bshep
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Sept 10, 2016 15:25:59 GMT
He is from a noble house and filth rich after the deep roads expedition(remember Vivienne who didn't live inside the circle because she was the mistress of a rich noble), besides Aveline can cover for him (she said so).
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 11, 2016 7:26:03 GMT
Personally, I find legitimate reason in it based on what the game tells us, and inferring from that what is not bluntly stated. And I love being a mage Hawke in Act 3 knowing they can't do shit about it. Link
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Sept 11, 2016 13:19:01 GMT
Hahaha i would really love doing that.
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Post by Dabrikishaw on Sept 20, 2016 1:51:20 GMT
Hawke only breaks immersion if you take the fights with mobs at face value. There's no reason for Hawke to use spells out in the open besides the players wanting too, and there are several areas where Hawke is free from oversight that allow spell use to be without consequence.
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Post by Dukemon on Sept 25, 2016 13:36:16 GMT
Hawke only breaks immersion if you take the fights wit mobs at face value. There's no reason for Hawke to use spells out in the open besides the players wanting too, and there are several areas where Hawke is free from oversight that allow spell use to be without consequence. In Dragon Age 2 would make the melee mage a lot of sense and I don't know why they removed the Arcane Warrior from DAO.
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