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Post by Warrick on Aug 14, 2016 23:14:45 GMT
I can hardly resist buying cookies at the shop, imagine resisting the sly whispers of a demon. I'd be possessed so fast.
The circle should open its doors to society. Mages should be required to spend time there the same as children are required to go to school. Security would be a big study topic just like it is in computer science. Every town hall would receive copies of the litany of Adralla.
It's on the mages' interest to be considered good neighbours too. Creation magic research should be heavily funded. With a circle you basically get super cheap universal healthcare. In a medieval fantasy setting that's a big advantage over neighbouring kingdoms. And very importantly, it makes mages part of the community. They will care about it, and that will help them combat demons. As of right now, being prisoners in the tower, who wouldn't want to stick it to the muggles? We're giving demons all the arguments they need.
Overall I don't understand why things must be so extreme with mages.
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Post by squinty on Aug 15, 2016 19:03:12 GMT
You resist demons because you realize they are demons in the first place and you don't want to become an abomination? The payoff is not worth the sacrifice. The ultimate outcome of taking a demon's offer is always disastrous for the mage. You just realize its not worth selling your soul for a mere transient pleasure.
It's more akin to eating a poisonous cookie that you know will surely destroy you eventually. Though not every time a spirit makes contact with a mage does it have evil intentions. Some spirits may seek to protect and help mages, i.e Wynne's situation, Divine Justinia's Fade presence, etc.
Not all mages are able to recognize straight away that they're being tricked by a demon either. It's implied you need to have some experience with the Fade and some prior magical training to catch on to what's going on. Or some natural affinity for this kind of thing.
You train the same way you train to resist worldly temptations. You flex your mental fortitude and your willpower. The stronger willed are more likely to resists, though no mage is ever completely immune. Dorian himself says in a conversation with Sera that although it's unlikely for him to "burst into demons", it's not impossible either, in spite of all his training.
There's no way to win in dealing with a demon, unless the mage manages to bind the demon to his will and essentially enslave him. Dorian implies that some Magisters can do that in Tevinter. Seems like it would be a high risk - high reward thing. The Southern Chantry is very conservative though, so I doubt Ciircle mages are ever taught to bind demons. Circle mages are just taught to fear and avoid demons, basically.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 15, 2016 19:40:05 GMT
You resist demons because you realize they are demons in the first place and you don't want to become an abomination? The payoff is not worth the sacrifice. The ultimate outcome of taking a demon's offer is always disastrous for the mage. You just realize its not worth selling your soul for a mere transient pleasure. It's more akin to eating a poisonous cookie that you know will surely destroy you eventually. Though not every time a spirit makes contact with a mage does it have evil intentions. Some spirits may seek to protect and help mages, i.e Wynne's situation, Divine Justinia's Fade presence, etc. Not all mages are able to recognize straight away that they're being tricked by a demon either. It's implied you need to have some experience with the Fade and some prior magical training to catch on to what's going on. Or some natural affinity for this kind of thing. You train the same way you train to resist worldly temptations. You flex your mental fortitude and your willpower. The stronger willed are more likely to resists, though no mage is ever completely immune. Dorian himself says in a conversation with Sera that although it's unlikely for him to "burst into demons", it's not impossible either, in spite of all his training. There's no way to win in dealing with a demon, unless the mage manages to bind the demon to his will and essentially enslave him. Dorian implies that some Magisters can do that in Tevinter. Seems like it would be a high risk - high reward thing. The Southern Chantry is very conservative though, so I doubt Ciircle mages are ever taught to bind demons. Circle mages are just taught to fear and avoid demons, basically. Nevertheless too much circle mages still try to use/use demons. This fact also proves that the Circle is wrong and unnecessary in this form. |
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our_lady_of_darkness
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Post by our_lady_of_darkness on Aug 17, 2016 11:34:18 GMT
Forgive me if I repeat a point made earlier, but what if demons tempt a mage with something not for his/her own benefit, but for others? What if the promise is aimed at the people you love and care about, and who are in danger/ill, etc.? Something of a devil's bargain, I guess.
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Post by squinty on Aug 22, 2016 7:31:05 GMT
Forgive me if I repeat a point made earlier, but what if demons tempt a mage with something not for his/her own benefit, but for others? What if the promise is aimed at the people you love and care about, and who are in danger/ill, etc.? Something of a devil's bargain, I guess. Most demons are not that crafty though. And I think most wouldn't be able to actually help others and if they promised that, a mage would know it's a lie. They seem to just promise the fulfillment of selfish desires. They are attracted to you in the first place because of your base wants and weaknesses. Pride, sloth, desire, rage, etc. |
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Post by vit246 on Aug 26, 2016 5:22:04 GMT
How not succumb, you ask?
I think its not as hard as you may be thinking, else there would never be a Tevinter Imperium in the first place.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 26, 2016 18:00:42 GMT
With regard to the question about what happens if the demon offers to help someone else, I'd refer you back to DAO and Connor. What happened there is that Jowan poisoned Eamon and Connor desperate to help his father accepted an offer from a demon. I don't recall exactly what the demon promised, possibly just stop him dying, which it did, since he survived in a sort of coma until we find the ashes. That is probably where the trickery came in. Connor thought that when it said it would stop him dying, it would cure him but the demon was just playing on words. However, once the deal was made then Connor was trapped. So an inexperienced mage can be tricked into possession for non-selfish motives or at least not ones that affect you personally. There is always a downside though. No matter what the person thinks, you cannot trick a demon, since they can read your mind so they know what you are planning. You may think you are getting the better of them but eventually you will find out that you didn't.
Binding a demon is of course different. That is what the Wardens were doing in DAI. As long as the person controls the binding, they control the demon. If the person is killed, then the demon is free. You have to be a pretty accomplished mage to undertake such a ritual though. Binding spirits seems as old as the Evanuris since in the memory banishing the Forbidden Ones, it mentions that they can be bound but only the protection of the gods will fully shield their subjects from their malice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2016 0:24:00 GMT
IMO the Avvar have a way better system of training up mages, inviting a spirit into the body when the mage is young and having the spirit train the mage gives the mage 'inside information' on demons and how to identify and combat them. If they have a better understanding on how the demons operate, they will be better equipted to refuse them. The Circle creates a kind of paranoia about demons and it vilifies the mages creating an atmosphere of fear and hate, that is what makes mages more vulnerable to possession because they're always afraid. Afraid of demons, affraid of being made tranquil, afraid of abusive Templars...afraid of themselves. Mages like Dorian and Morrigan were raised to have a certain amout of confidence and pride in what they are and that's something that makes a big difference in how they cope against demons.
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