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Post by dayze on Mar 8, 2017 4:12:58 GMT
According to Prince; it was said the ritual of the joining was to "improve" the potency of the taint and that's how you get warden's instead of ghouls by in essence being "more" corrupted or some such sort of thing? If so; perhaps that's what Archdemon's actually are. A "ghoul" version of the old gods? And the OG's born into human bodies via warden taint are essentially "Grey Warden's" themselves and that's why they don't come out as ghouls? Though this does bring up some pretty serious questions about the true nature of the archdemon's and the old gods. I was already aware of the mechanics involved into becoming a GW but what they have to do with the Archdemons? An AD is not classified as a ghoul because it's not a ghoul,ghouls have a very limited lifespawn(few years)AD don't die until they are killed. An AD is nothing more but the soul of an old god inside a darkspawn vessel. Do Ghouls die due to their being tainted or due to undergoing the calling? Or simply having their capacity to think drop so starkly and failing to get through life?
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Post by Kei on Mar 8, 2017 8:49:26 GMT
Ghouls die after a while on their own because of the corruption it is not compatibile with their body in the long run.Broodmothers or any other kind of ghoul such as the corrupted wolves die on their own because the corruption is poison for their bodies,an AD instead is not bound to the same fate because they are not Ghouls,they are darkspawns with an old god soul.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 8, 2017 9:36:03 GMT
Conclusion -Therefore taking said soul from a tainted vessel(Archdemon) and putting it into another tainted vessel(child of a GW) shouldn't result in an uncorrupted being but into another Archdemon. Kieran isn't tainted though, which is why the presence of Urthemiel's soul does not transform him into an Archdemon. Morrigan heavily implies that the Dark Ritual uses blood magic in order to work. This suggests that when the Archdemon's soul attempted to transfer into the Warden, it was instead shunted into Kieran because he shares the same blood as the Warden, minus the presence of the taint. We later see the same principle at work in Legacy. Malcolm Hawke's use of blood magic to seal Corypheus' prison bound his bloodline to the Key, which is why Hawke and (potentially) Bethany/Carver were being targetted by the Carta, as they were the only ones capable of using it. EDIT: Drat, didn't take into account Loghain or Alistair being used instead, since that would make Kieran's blood different from the Warden the Archdemon was trying to jump into. But the part about Kieran's blood (and children of other Wardens) being untainted is still backed up by lore.
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Post by Prince on Mar 9, 2017 21:47:51 GMT
Conclusion -Therefore taking said soul from a tainted vessel(Archdemon) and putting it into another tainted vessel(child of a GW) shouldn't result in an uncorrupted being but into another Archdemon. Kieran isn't tainted though, which is why the presence of Urthemiel's soul does not transform him into an Archdemon. Morrigan heavily implies that the Dark Ritual uses blood magic in order to work. This suggests that when the Archdemon's soul attempted to transfer into the Warden, it was instead shunted into Kieran because he shares the same blood as the Warden, minus the presence of the taint. We later see the same principle at work in Legacy. Malcolm Hawke's use of blood magic to seal Corypheus' prison bound his bloodline to the Key, which is why Hawke and (potentially) Bethany/Carver were being targetted by the Carta, as they were the only ones capable of using it. EDIT: Drat, didn't take into account Loghain or Alistair being used instead, since that would make Kieran's blood different from the Warden the Archdemon was trying to jump into. But the part about Kieran's blood (and children of other Wardens) being untainted is still backed up by lore. As you've realized by yourself the first part of your post is incorrect,there may not be a blood connection at all between the AD's killer and Kieran,Hawke and the key had completely different set of rules than those of the DR. The second part isn't backed up by the lore.The children born from a GW are tainted at conception,they just happen to be born without the taint. With the ritual the AD should have all the requirments it need to reborn,his soul and a corrupted host.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 10, 2017 1:37:49 GMT
Why isn't Bhelen pissed if you steal his baby name.
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Post by mousestalker on Mar 10, 2017 2:19:32 GMT
Why isn't Bhelen pissed if you steal his baby name. I had one play through where I named Dog 'Harrowmutt'. No one said anything.
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Post by Norstaera on Mar 10, 2017 20:50:30 GMT
About the Dark Ritual, I think that assuming the child would be tainted is a mistake.
- The Joining does change those who survive it. No argument there.
- Some of the Joining's changes are practically immediate, but others take place over time, years even. This is also established. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Calling.
- The Archdemons are dragons.
- The Old Gods do not become Archdemons until the darkspawn reach them and corrupt them.
- Kieran is not tainted.
- Kieran, if you did the DR, hosts Urthemiel.
- The taint is a disease and most diseases aren't inherited.
Morrigan can't use Riordan, there has to be a reason. It's not the man's age, Loghain is probably older. She said it has to be a younger, or newer Warden. Why? From Alistair's statements to the Warden after the Landsmeet if you're in a relationship with him, we can certainly infer that the Joining ritual affects reproduction. We know Alistair is guessing, but Morrigan does seem to confirm that when she says 'not Riordan.' Here's what I think, the Joining, since it uses Archdemon blood as well as darkspawn blood, changes the Warden in 2 ways. Sure, there's the taint part we all know and love. But the Archdemon, unlike darkspawn, wasn't born that way. What if the aspect of the blood that makes Wardens instead of ghouls is from the original and untainted Archdemon, dragon rather? Maybe this part does cause a mutation that goes to progeny, until the taint finally causes sterility. The magic in the DR works with this in order for the child to become a recipient for the Old God's soul and protect it and the mother from the taint. The magic probably also waves flags and lights to tell the OG soul 'clean body over here!'
Some say the DR is selfish. It certainly can be. Most of my Wardens take advantage of it, I admit. There is another, less personal reason for doing so, though it's still a risk, and only part of the reason. At the start of battle there are only 3 Wardens. The most you can hope for afterwards is 2 if you don't do the DR, really only one since either Loghain is sent to another nation or Alistair is king. Even with Archie's death, the darkspawn aren't going to be back underground immediately. They may run from the battlefield but I bet they do a lot of rampaging on the way.
- You want Wardens to find and fight remaining darkspawn.
- There's a lot of cleanup to be done afterward, better to have a Warden (s) deal with tainted stuff (like dead bodies) or at least advise about how to deal with it.
- You might need a Warden to determine which of the injured survivors have Blight disease.
- The Wardens have to be rebuilt in Ferelden. Much better to have at least one Ferelden around to do so.
- Maybe you're just kicking the can down the road, but who's to say that another Blight won't come right away? There are more Old Gods left. One Warden isn't enough, but it's a start.
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Post by Aren on Mar 11, 2017 17:57:45 GMT
About the Dark Ritual, I think that assuming the child would be tainted is a mistake.
- The Joining does change those who survive it. No argument there.
- Some of the Joining's changes are practically immediate, but others take place over time, years even. This is also established. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Calling.
- The Archdemons are dragons.
- The Old Gods do not become Archdemons until the darkspawn reach them and corrupt them.
- Kieran is not tainted.
- Kieran, if you did the DR, hosts Urthemiel.
- The taint is a disease and most diseases aren't inherited.
Morrigan can't use Riordan, there has to be a reason. It's not the man's age, Loghain is probably older. She said it has to be a younger, or newer Warden. Why? From Alistair's statements to the Warden after the Landsmeet if you're in a relationship with him, we can certainly infer that the Joining ritual affects reproduction. We know Alistair is guessing, but Morrigan does seem to confirm that when she says 'not Riordan.' Here's what I think, the Joining, since it uses Archdemon blood as well as darkspawn blood, changes the Warden in 2 ways. Sure, there's the taint part we all know and love. But the Archdemon, unlike darkspawn, wasn't born that way. What if the aspect of the blood that makes Wardens instead of ghouls is from the original and untainted Archdemon, dragon rather? Maybe this part does cause a mutation that goes to progeny, until the taint finally causes sterility. The magic in the DR works with this in order for the child to become a recipient for the Old God's soul and protect it and the mother from the taint. The magic probably also waves flags and lights to tell the OG soul 'clean body over here!'
Some say the DR is selfish. It certainly can be. Most of my Wardens take advantage of it, I admit. There is another, less personal reason for doing so, though it's still a risk, and only part of the reason. At the start of battle there are only 3 Wardens. The most you can hope for afterwards is 2 if you don't do the DR, really only one since either Loghain is sent to another nation or Alistair is king. Even with Archie's death, the darkspawn aren't going to be back underground immediately. They may run from the battlefield but I bet they do a lot of rampaging on the way.
- You want Wardens to find and fight remaining darkspawn.
- There's a lot of cleanup to be done afterward, better to have a Warden (s) deal with tainted stuff (like dead bodies) or at least advise about how to deal with it.
- You might need a Warden to determine which of the injured survivors have Blight disease.
- The Wardens have to be rebuilt in Ferelden. Much better to have at least one Ferelden around to do so.
- Maybe you're just kicking the can down the road, but who's to say that another Blight won't come right away? There are more Old Gods left. One Warden isn't enough, but it's a start.
I would like to present my own contentions in order disprove the premise as well as the conclusions of the above post. It's premise being: Assuming the child would be tainted is a mistake.
#Response -The Dark ritual is for generating a child with the taint,that's why the archdemon's essence would be able to go to him in the first place,as he is able to go to the warden that kills it. Is the taint that make that possible to which it can be inferred that the child is tainted at conception or else the Archdemon's essence has no way to be lured into it. - I have no disagreement with the assessment that was made however there is no correlation between such statement and the original premise.
- I have no disagreement with the assessment that was made however there is no correlation between such statement and the original premise.
- The Archdemons are not Dragons,they possess the same body shape of the High Dragons but there are several different key characteristics that makes impossible to classify them as Dragons.
I'm in disagreement with this point as I've stated but mostly I see no correlation between this point and the original premise.
- I have no disagreement with the assessment that was made however there is no correlation between such statement and the original premise.
- As I've explained in my first assertion Kieran must be tainted at conception or else the Dark ritual cannot work because the AD's essence is attracted only by the taint.He is born taint-less as any other child born from a GW after the pregnancy and never before.
- It is what canonically happens,however I see it as a plot hole to which David Gaider has never offered any kind of explanation.Morrigan also offers no real insight or explanation into how taking said soul from a tainted vessel and putting it into another tainted vessel would result in an uncorrupted being,therefore given the premises I conclude that the expected outcomes of the DR don't seem particularly well thought out and just seem to be arbitrarly given.
- What the taint truly is nobody knows but I wouldn't classify it as a disease given the magical and spiritual nature of it and given the fact that was used in some cases to increase rather than decrease the individual lifespan;certanly there are many diseases that can be inherited so the "most" in thy point isn't necessarily accurate.
-I will now begin to address your second argument with a new contention. The opening part of your second argument is to my estimation correct since it reports the given informations from DAO on about why Riordan isn't suitable for the Dark ritual,the second part however is an hypotesis which I have the means to disprove.Your Hypothesis is that the drop of Archdemon blood contained within the chalice which is given during the Joining to the recruits can be somehow explanatory on some of the key mechanics of the Dark ritual and particularly on how said ritual it lures the AD soul and protects the unborn from the taint. This Hypothesis is incorrect because the drop of Archdemon blood is not a fundamental requirement for the Joining but just an ingredient used to improve its potency and its efficiency. Those below are the statements made by Gaider: Becoming a Grey Warden requires a dose of the darkspawn corruption in sufficient potency that it immediately affects someone, rather than slowly enough to sicken them. Archdemon blood can be used (though is understandably much rarer), but any darkspawn blood can be magically treated to make it work. Your rank-and-file darkspawn simply doesn't have enough of the corruption within him to do the trick. Moreover even if you assume that Hypothesis as being close to the truth despite the above statements,we have no way to know that during his Joining Alistair was being made a GW with the drop of an Archdemon blood rather than with the more common magically treated darkspawn blood,and so in the scenario where he is one of the elements of the Dark ritual it's seem to me that there is no way to deduct any of that.
-I will now begin to present my 3rd contention,the following will mostly be arithmetic.#PremiseThe additional units of extra wardens provided by the Dark ritual in Ferelden post blight is 0 in every possible scenario out of all endings and all of their variations.#Demonstration
- If Loghain is killed at the Landsmeet and Alistair is made King the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF=1 Warden
- If Loghain is recruited at the Landsmeet and Alistair was exiled,the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF because Loghain is being exiled by the nobles=1 Warden
- If Loghain is recruited at the Landsmeet and Alistair was killed,the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF because Loghain is being exiled by the nobles=1 warden
- If Loghain is recruited at the Landsmeet and Alistair is made king the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF because Loghain is being exiled by the nobles=1 warden
- If Loghain is killed at the Landsmeet and Alistair remain a Warden he is exiled by Anora,the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF=1 warden
- If Loghain is killed at the Landsmeet and Alistair is sacrificed(whether he was made a king or remained a GW) the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF=1 Warden
- If Loghain is sacrificed (whether Alistair was killed,exiled or made king)the only operational warden in Ferelden post blight is the HoF=1 Warden
- If the Warden is Sacrificed(whether Loghain was recruited or killed and/or Alistair made a king,remained a GW,exiled or killed)the only operational warden post blight is the Orlesian warden or the reborn HoF=1 warden.
The above considerations which were mostly simple counts should be enough to disprove any hypothesis on the Dark ritual being able to provide more Grey wardens over the other endings no matter the specific variation.There is most certainly a good foundation to say that allowing the soul who was in charge of the 5th blight to continue to exist in order to gain the little benefit of having one single extra warden post-blight(despite I've proven that's not the case)is very much unbalanced when compared to the inherent gambles and points of failures in the Dark ritual.
#Gambles
- How do you know that the ritual will work?This is a method that was never tested before.
- How do you know that the old god soul will be cleansed rather than the AD being able to resurrect himself from Morrigan's body?Afterall as I've argued before the unborn Kieran is tainted.
- How do you know that the OGB will not emit the calling thus luring the darkpsawns on the surface?
- How do you know that darkspawns will never be able to find it eventually?
- How do you know that Morrigan isn't planning to sacrifice the child to gain it's powers?She comes from a family that appear to be accustomed to such practices.
- If this ritual was a creation of Flemeth how do you know why she wanted it done?To possess the child?It's a possibility for all the Warden may know.
- How do you know that Flemeth will never be able to find this reborn old god?What if she does?
- How do you know that the Old God soul will not be the only soul within the child if all you know is that the DR is meant to avert a problem arising from two souls in one body?And if that was the case the ritual would have destroyed the original soul of the child.
- We can take into account Solas into the gambles since he may as well be related to this whole thing if he took that from Flemeth.
Canonically all the above points didn't happen(except for some)but we have to take into account that this is a game and not reality.
What I'm trying to convey is that in a game there may not be only the privilege of making choices but also the privileges of choosing the outcomes of what such choices will entail and those privileges are in the writers' hands(in the case of the DR,Gaider)but reality doesn't work that way there isn't any writer that decide anything.
In conclusion I do see the Dark ritual as an extremely selfish and reckless course of action(selfish and reckless as the Morrigan's character)and I have difficulties to see it as non-selfish or non-reckless from a rational PoV simply because I've never heared a good arguement in that direction and I've read many in the past including those of the above post.
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Post by Norstaera on Mar 12, 2017 1:03:42 GMT
@aren Black Before I talk about your response to my theory, or possible theory, I think you should know that most of your post was unreadable against the theme I use. I love color, and I appreciate you and others using color in your posts but sometimes people forget that colors don't show up well on other backgrounds. For instance, the red you used is readable, but kind of vibrates against the dark in an almost jarring manner. The light color you used hardly shows at all and I can't read it. I was called out for this once so I try to be careful when I don't use automatic color. Sometimes size and font can help make a difference. Now, to address the points I can read. First, I contend (in order to address the 'plot hole' of the DR) that the purpose of the DR is not to create a tainted baby but to create a vessel for the Old God's soul so that it will not be corrupted. Kieran is not tainted, he is, if you performed the DR, the vessel, and there is nothing to suggest he got cured of the taint. At least, not the taint as ghouls or Grey Wardens have it. So, if he's not tainted, then why not? Nor is there any indication that Morrigan has the taint when we meet her in Inquisition. After 10 years, there should be indications of corruption and I don't believe the taint just disappeared. {Some people might bring up Fiona, but I don't think the taint disappeared. I think Alistair inherited it and it lay dormant until activated by the Joining. Or she was cured some other way and the pregnancy is coincidence. I don't believe becoming pregnant is a cure. A lot of men would be upset in that case.} Yes, you're right, it's possible to create a Joining drink with darkspawn blood sufficiently corrupted and nary a drop of Archdemon blood, but based on what I've read the practice is to use Archdemon blood in the Joining. You need a lot of darkspawn blood to avoid ghouldom. Riordan says there used to be some in the vault and assumes Duncan took it with him to Ostagar and it is now lost. Therefore, I think it safe to say Archdemon blood was used in the Joining ritual for all the Grey Wardens we meet in DAO. Certainly Flemeth would be aware of this and could instruct Morrigan accordingly. Does that little bit of Archdemon blood make a difference? I thought it might, in conjunction with the magic involved in the ritual and was attempting to explain, obviously poorly, why that might be. You're right, I was careless to say that the Archdemons are dragons rather than appearing like dragon. However, they are not corrupted until the darkspawn find them, according to the codex: "No one knows what it is that drives the darkspawn . . . search for the sleeping Old Gods. . . . Whatever the reason, when darkspawn find one of these ancient dragons, it is immediately afflicted by the taint. It awakens twisted and corrupted, and leads the darkspawn in a full-scale invasion of the land: a Blight. —From Codex entry: Archdemon" So, of course Urthemiel became an Archdemon. The Architect is still a darkspawn, though on a much higher level than most. That he was using Grey Warden blood doesn't matter, his presence corrupted Urth. Back to the OGB: yes, Morrigan does say the child will bear the taint. I double-checked in the toolset. In which case, there has to be a reason why neither child nor OG are tainted later. Maybe her ritual is enough, whether Archie blood was used in the Joining or not, to . . . encapsulate it? Insulate it? I don't know. I think it could have something to do with the Archdemon blood, and explained why. It is only a theory, after all. Or maybe, Archie blood or not, not enough taint exists in the young Warden's swimmers to do more than give the ritual something to work with. So, a little taint exists but not in enough quantity, or of sufficient maturity to initiate corruption. Regarding your numbers after the Blight, your Ultimate Sacrifice numbers are based on precognition, metagaming, or some more distant future. In game, the Warden doesn't know for certain that more Wardens will come from other nations, much less that they will be Orlesians. Even if they guessed that the most likely help would come from Orlais, they should be smart enough to figure that could be a problem for Ferelden, given the occupation many, like Loghain and Eamon, still remember. Nor can the Warden know how long it will take before more Wardens can come to take charge, but that it won't be the day after but at least some weeks or months later. Hence, for a period of time when the most darkspawn are still on the surface, the Ultimate Sacrifice will mean that Ferelden has no Wardens. 0. Do more selfish reasons play a part deciding to do the DR? I don't see how they can't be at least a passing concern to any Warden. Everybody has a certain self-interest. I did want to point out that there could be reasons beyond personal self-interest to weigh the scales in favor of Morrigan's plan.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Mar 12, 2017 1:15:40 GMT
The vessel of the dark ritual has the taint,not only Morrigan admit that in conversation but it wouldn't make any sense otherwise so combining a blighted vessel and an AD soul should result into another Archdemon not into an OGB,that's a plot hole.
The Grey wardens are an indipendent and big organization even in the scenario of the US is reasonable to expect that with Loghain out of the picture the first warden will send more wardens to help,in fact he sent many and he sent Woolsey as well not just the new player character from Orlais. The first warden needs the blood of the AD that was killed and he needs to send GW in Ferelden to take it,so this isn't metaknowledge.
I think there is a fine line between self interest and gambling the whole world(thus one-self) for self interest.There can't be a scenario of 0 Wardens in DAA,there can be only a scenario of one warden + those sent by the first warden.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 13, 2017 1:49:36 GMT
I did want to point out that there could be reasons beyond personal self-interest to weigh the scales in favor of Morrigan's plan. I've read the whole post so there is no need to quote everything because I have it in mind. The drop of the Archdemon blood is completely unrelated with the DR,it has nothing to do with it and is just used for the Joining when the recruiter doesn't have the time to treat the darkspawn blood,like in Ostagar where Duncan didn't had that much time before the battle so he used it.A GW made with it is the same as one made without it. The dark ritual result into an OGB and not into an Archdemon because the writers are those who decide the outcomes but following the logic of their own rules it should have resulted into another Archdemon since the Architect did a very similar experiment and he got an Archdemon not an Old God,he even used the taint from a GW like Morrigan but unlike her his experiment had even better conditions because he used an untainded host(The original Urthemiel) with an untainted soul rather than a vessel with the taint and an AD soul,yet he failed because the writers said so...despite him being thousand of years old expert mage,a former magister of Tevinter and an acolyte of old gods. Post blight in DAA there is always one GW regardless of the scenario and it isn't metaknowledge to take into account that even in the case of the US the first warden will send GW tin Ferelden to at least take the Archdemon's blood,so the DR isn't an advantage on that account. I don't think there are reasons other than selfishness to do the DR given it's inner dependency on metaknowledge.
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Post by Norstaera on Mar 13, 2017 13:15:04 GMT
DAA is about six months after the end of the Blight. For most of that time, if your Warden did the US, then there are no Grey Wardens in Ferelden. I never said that was a permanent condition.
Duncan probably had Archie's blood with him at Ostagar, Riordan suggests as much when you speak to him at the estate after you rescue him and the queen. Which makes sense, one of the Origins is in Denerim after all. Hardly a moment's time to stop by the vault, assuming he didn't have it already.
As for OGB, maybe that's one plot hole that's just too big to finesse outside of fanfiction.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 14, 2017 0:45:16 GMT
DAA happen six months after DAO that is true but that doesn't mean that there are no GW left in Ferelden for 6th months.
The First warden has sent many GW(Kenneth,Krystoff and several others)long before he had sent the GW commander of DAA,Krystoff and Kenneth are in Ferelden way before the events of DAA,while Varel even knew the Joining to create more and he has never left Ferelden.
But even if that wasn't the case,let's assume Ferelden will never be able to have any GW for a couple of centuries or more,I'm curious to understand as to what is the difference?The GW are not vital beyond being an AD killing receptacle,so having or not having them when there are no Archdemons around it makes no difference.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 16, 2017 11:57:07 GMT
Conclusion -Therefore taking said soul from a tainted vessel(Archdemon) and putting it into another tainted vessel(child of a GW) shouldn't result in an uncorrupted being but into another Archdemon. Kieran isn't tainted though, which is why the presence of Urthemiel's soul does not transform him into an Archdemon. Morrigan heavily implies that the Dark Ritual uses blood magic in order to work. This suggests that when the Archdemon's soul attempted to transfer into the Warden, it was instead shunted into Kieran because he shares the same blood as the Warden, minus the presence of the taint. We later see the same principle at work in Legacy. Malcolm Hawke's use of blood magic to seal Corypheus' prison bound his bloodline to the Key, which is why Hawke and (potentially) Bethany/Carver were being targetted by the Carta, as they were the only ones capable of using it. EDIT: Drat, didn't take into account Loghain or Alistair being used instead, since that would make Kieran's blood different from the Warden the Archdemon was trying to jump into. But the part about Kieran's blood (and children of other Wardens) being untainted is still backed up by lore. Yeah, but if OG Kieran ever comes across a group of stray darkspawn and becomes tainted... new Blight for everyone.
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Post by sahlie on Mar 24, 2017 7:19:22 GMT
I don't know if this can be considered a plothole but when you are in Orzamar, helping to chose the next king, aren't you interferencing in politics? Isn't it against GW rules?
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Post by akiza on Mar 25, 2017 0:38:14 GMT
The First warden does the same thing in the Anderfels. There are GW interested in politics.
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Post by phoray on Mar 25, 2017 3:33:23 GMT
I don't know if this can be considered a plothole but when you are in Orzamar, helping to chose the next king, aren't you interferencing in politics? Isn't it against GW rules? Alistair is not very educated on GW matters and unless Duncan mentions it to your Warden, you wouldn't know. Besides, all the rules are thrown out the Window when a Blight is on.
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Post by sahlie on Mar 25, 2017 11:54:58 GMT
I don't know if this can be considered a plothole but when you are in Orzamar, helping to chose the next king, aren't you interferencing in politics? Isn't it against GW rules? Alistair is not very educated on GW matters and unless Duncan mentions it to your Warden, you wouldn't know. Besides, all the rules are thrown out the Window when a Blight is on. It is not really a secret, like the iniciation, is it? Anyway, I buy you totally the "blight excuse" 😉 I am playing again and it surprised me how much we interfere in politics, even when we have been told from the beginning we shouldn't. I guess the blight allows a lot of things...
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Post by secretrare on Mar 31, 2017 0:55:05 GMT
The statue they build in Redclieffe to honor the HoF,even if they had abonded it to the Zombie horde... I get it BioWare is all about same outcomes for everyone no matter what they do,but this was nonsense.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Mar 31, 2017 1:02:23 GMT
The statue they build in Redclieffe to honor the HoF,even if they had abonded it to the Zombie horde... I get it BioWare is all about same outcomes for everyone no matter what they do,but this was nonsense. The HoF(like any other PC of DA)can't be seen as evil,that's DA first rule,protagonists must be always praised.Also what statue?There is only a generic griffin statue not any statue that depict any HoF.... (of course i know they can't make a statue for a person that doesn't have canonic features NOR a name)
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Post by Catilina on Mar 31, 2017 1:06:49 GMT
The statue they build in Redclieffe to honor the HoF,even if they had abonded it to the Zombie horde... I get it BioWare is all about same outcomes for everyone no matter what they do,but this was nonsense.No. This is natural, not nonsense. The Blight is over. A new hero emerged. What cost? The people don't know. Just remember: even Alistair/Loghain didn't know, what happened, if the hero performed the ritual. But still, we also do not know what the price is. I hope, we will see, whether good or bad. After all, that's why I did it. But: I think we will see only one end. You know: we only have false freedom in the decisions. Sad, but true. This is a series, not a single story.
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Post by secretrare on Mar 31, 2017 5:11:14 GMT
The statue they build in Redclieffe to honor the HoF,even if they had abonded it to the Zombie horde... I get it BioWare is all about same outcomes for everyone no matter what they do,but this was nonsense.No. This is natural, not nonsense. The Blight is over. A new hero emerged. What cost? The people don't know. Just remember: even Alistair/Loghain didn't know, what happened, if the hero performed the ritual. But still, we also do not know what the price is. I hope, we will see, whether good or bad. After all, that's why I did it. But: I think we will see only one end. You know: we only have false freedom in the decisions. Sad, but true. This is a series, not a single story. I don't understand to what you was reffering to,if Redclieffe is abandoned by the Warden to the undead, Tegan and Eamon will be aware of that so I don't see why them should allow to build any statue for the HoF in Redclieffe. If you was referring to the DR(which wasn't part of my previous post but I will discuss it in this one),well the first warden and the Chamberlain should be aware of something since they know that the death of an AD require a sacrifice and they sent people to track down both Flemeth and Morrigan for answers since WH and they are continuing to investigate it right now given the whole rebellion they have to face from GW who now believe that their leaders lied about the US since the HoF didn't di ed as it should have happened.They aren't ignorant like the average folks and they have a rebellion to face right now who may have started also because of the DR and who may destroy their entire organization.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 31, 2017 12:33:13 GMT
No. This is natural, not nonsense. The Blight is over. A new hero emerged. What cost? The people don't know. Just remember: even Alistair/Loghain didn't know, what happened, if the hero performed the ritual. But still, we also do not know what the price is. I hope, we will see, whether good or bad. After all, that's why I did it. But: I think we will see only one end. You know: we only have false freedom in the decisions. Sad, but true. This is a series, not a single story. I don't understand to what you was reffering to,if Redclieffe is abandoned by the Warden to the undead, Tegan and Eamon will be aware of that so I don't see why them should allow to build any statue for the HoF in Redclieffe. If you was referring to the DR(which wasn't part of my previous post but I will discuss it in this one),well the first warden and the Chamberlain should be aware of something since they know that the death of an AD require a sacrifice and they sent people to track down both Flemeth and Morrigan for answers since WH and they are continuing to investigate it right now given the whole rebellion they have to face from GW who now believe that their leaders lied about the US since the HoF didn't di ed as it should have happened.They aren't ignorant like the average folks and they have a rebellion to face right now who may have started also because of the DR and who may destroy their entire organization. Ah, misunderstanding, probably because I never abandoned Redcliffe. Of course, in such circumstances the situation is different, and maybe harder, but still explainable (yes, hardly, but still): as I said, the Blight is over: this was the main problem... And again: they did not pay attention to every detail. Unfortunately, this is expected. In DA4, I suppose, we will get a progressive-conservative non-mage Divine on Southern-Thedas Sunburst Throne, whatever was the player's decision...
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Post by Aren on Apr 3, 2017 22:56:33 GMT
given the whole rebellion they have to face from GW who now believe that their leaders lied about the US since the HoF didn't di ed as it should have happened. I've never thought about this issue with Weissaupt(it seems they are going that ruote) but I have to admit that's even more problematic than anything I've ever detected with respect to the gambles of the DR.At this point,with so many problematic gambles,any attempt from the writers to simply sweep the whole issues under the carpet will feel kinda fake to me and an Ad hoc writing.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Apr 3, 2017 23:07:45 GMT
Ad hoc writing?You realized that just now?There are many instances in DA in which the writers found contrived and improbable solutions to resolve issues in order to cut the cost to produce the outcomes at this point I don't even know why the bothered to create the whole scene in the fade,they could have just used the codex to say,Ehi the soul of Urthemiel disappeared.
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