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Nightman
" A wise man once said, forgiveness is divine but never pay full price for a late pizza. "
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Post by Nightman on Dec 17, 2016 21:47:23 GMT
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Innocuous Alaskan
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4,799
Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 17, 2016 21:49:17 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it.
But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges.
And I thought we were talking general survival tips... In which case, a very valuable one is "Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're safe."
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Pearl
optics cuck
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August 2016
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
FatherOfPearl
FatherOfPearl
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Post by Pearl on Dec 17, 2016 21:52:47 GMT
take a shotgun with exploding shells Don't buy them unless you have the proper licensing though, otherwise the ATF will come shoot your dog.
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The Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Psychologist
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Aug 13, 2016 22:27:41 GMT
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Lorn
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Post by Lorn on Dec 17, 2016 22:00:28 GMT
take a shotgun with exploding shells Don't buy them unless you have the proper licensing though, otherwise the ATF will come shoot your dog.That sounds like something E-Ro would do...
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Post by Lady Artifice on Dec 17, 2016 22:09:15 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it. But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges. And I thought we were talking general survival tips... In which case, a very valuable one is "Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're safe." Yeah, this thread was never meant to be about, "how to brutally slaughter animals." At least not exclusively.
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M'lady of Fine Arts
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Lady Artifice
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Post by Lady Artifice on Dec 17, 2016 22:12:37 GMT
Honestly, the thing I'm most interested in is how to identify and test edible plant life. The site I linked to in the OP has a break down of the appropriate test. It's interesting. And daunting. You have to wait 8 hours between each step to make sure you aren't about to consume poison.
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Draining Dragon
N4
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Draining Dragon
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 2,178 Likes: 7,575
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Draining Dragon
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
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August 2016
drainingdragon
Draining Dragon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Draining Dragon on Dec 17, 2016 22:12:40 GMT
take a shotgun with exploding shells Don't buy them unless you have the proper licensing though, otherwise the ATF will come shoot your dog.
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Darth Dennis
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 17, 2016 22:17:07 GMT
take a shotgun with exploding shells Don't buy them unless you have the proper licensing though, otherwise the ATF will come shoot your dog. And knock over your furniture.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 17, 2016 22:18:12 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it. But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges. And I thought we were talking general survival tips... In which case, a very valuable one is "Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're safe." Having the will to use said gun helps in my experience.
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Innocuous Alaskan
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4,799
Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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August 2016
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 17, 2016 22:39:13 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it. But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges. And I thought we were talking general survival tips... In which case, a very valuable one is "Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're safe." Having the will to use said gun helps in my experience. I've seen too many weekend cowboys who think toting a 45 is enough so that they can go back country. Psychologically, the most important thing to do for a crisis situation is to prepare and practice. At least mentally. Certainly physically with a gun. Take the avalanche I mentioned. I was out skiing, and because I'd taken classes, talked about that very situation, and imagined it, I was able to turn gradually to the edge, swim with my arms... And get out with only a few bruises on my legs. If I hadn't been mentally prepared, I might have been a statistic. Especially because I was a blooming idiot and hadn't told anyone where I was or carried the appropriate gear (beacon, shovel) in my pack. I really believe most of the survival situations are 40% luck and 60% preparation. I could have been doing everything right during the avalanche, and if it hit me skiing down a chute, I wouldn't be here to argue for SAVE THE TREES in Wrongthink. But I got lucky, and I was in the right headspace, even if I didn't have the right things with me. Regarding bears: I've lived in bear country my whole life. I grew up with brown and black bears, and now I'm in polar bear territory. My favored deterrent is a large dog (dogs aren't actually helpful in bear situations and may make matters worse, but they make me feel better) and making lots of noise. As a backup, I also carry bear spray, and, if it's windy or I'm feeling paranoid, my aforementioned shotgun. I've had a few encounters, but nothing really alarming. The closest to a real bear problem was on my parents' farm, where I surprised a young black bear raiding our feed. I stood up tall, yelled at it, and threw a rock. It beat feet... Though I have no idea what I would have done if it'd called my bluff. Artifice is taking the right step for survival situations just by thinking about them. If she DOES wind up in the back country and in trouble, she'll do better just because she's prepared a bit. I mean, survival nerd toys are pretty sweet, too. But a surprising amount is mental, at least as far as I can tell.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 17, 2016 22:41:31 GMT
Having the will to use said gun helps in my experience. I've seen too many weekend cowboys who think toting a 45 is enough so that they can go back country. Your deliberately missing my point now.
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GOD
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Dec 17, 2016 22:47:19 GMT
One trick I learned is to turn your own body into a shelter. I could kill me, hollow me out and live in me!! I've done it before.
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Innocuous Alaskan
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Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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August 2016
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 17, 2016 22:47:38 GMT
I've seen too many weekend cowboys who think toting a 45 is enough so that they can go back country. Your deliberately missing my point now. I'm just talking about generalities. You're assuming a training level that I don't think is necessarily there with everyone who has a gun. Which is why I think there's safer bear deterrents than a pistol, and I would not suggest a novice woodsman tote a pistol, no matter how high caliber. I'm not arguing against a pistol as bear deterrent in the hands of an expert... I'm just saying there's other options, many more user-friendly in the hands of an amateur.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 17, 2016 23:06:52 GMT
Your deliberately missing my point now. I'm just talking about generalities. As am I, if you have a weapon will you not at the very least practice with it a few times just to ensure you are capable of using it? Hence the whole outdoorsmen tripe.
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Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 17, 2016 23:30:20 GMT
I'm just talking about generalities. As am I, if you have a weapon will you not at the very least practice with it a few times just to ensure you are capable of using it? Hence the whole outdoorsmen tripe. Practicing with a pistol "just a few times" at a firing range won't really prepare you for a charging bear out in the real world. It's a hell of a lot harder to hit anything when the adrenaline's really going, as I'm sure you know, and a wounded bear is every bit as bad as the cliché would have you believe.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 17, 2016 23:43:28 GMT
As am I, if you have a weapon will you not at the very least practice with it a few times just to ensure you are capable of using it? Hence the whole outdoorsmen tripe. Practicing with a pistol "just a few times" at a firing range won't really prepare you for a charging bear out in the real world. No but it will ensure you know how to actually aim the damn thing and plug it in the heart or skull. Really though this fascination with the adrenaline high to my eye is one of the most out of place parts of the situation, its overstated to be blunt. Is fear and nervous to be expected? Of course but you are act like folks are going to go catatonic at the sight of one of these walking carpets. And let me be the one to state this bluntly, a slight tick or jitter isn't going to make you miss at 20 feet. Now say if you were talking an actual gunfight maybe, those distances are usually much further and occasionally even go far enough to have factors of wind and air density and placement to act upon the bullet. No need to do math calculations to determine how much you need to adjust for gravity's effect on the cartridge But we are talking close enough to stare the beast in the eye, nothing is going to act on that bullet until it strikes flesh or you miss. I was hunting in Europe as a younger man before immigration and North America though most of my life here, I've done deep hikes into the Rockies by myself and while I have not encountered a Bear, I have encountered several big cats and let me tell you, the real kicker isn't the ability to aim but not to hesitate, freezing at the sounds these creatures make to my experience is the infinitely scary bit. I mean I hunt a lot, and I generally can pick up on when something is stalking me, nature is pretty clear to those who pay attention(lack of noise in a general area as indication of predators, walking into their territory by not noticing signs such as droppings or claw marks) But yeah if you don't freeze and draw, you then need to locate the beast, that to me was the difficult part, because cougars and their ilk aren't as big and bulky as bears, they don't need to leave a large profile, they can creep up on you. To my eye it seems almost easier in a way to deal with a bear, that's an obvious threat, shoot it till it dies sort of scenario just like big game hunters in Africa with apes back in the 60s sort of thing. But cats *shudders* I have a few bad experiences with them. ._. Still its about the same as the bear its a situation of them or you, nut up or die sort of deal.
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Spirit talker
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Giant Ambush Beetle
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Dec 18, 2016 0:25:27 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it. But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges. I have no experience with bears but if I was charged by a dangerous animal I'd shoot it and not wait to find out if it was a bluff or not. If its not I'll only find out when I'm already getting munched to death. Same with armed home intruders, they point a gun at me which might only be a bluff, but I sure as hell put them down with my shotgun ASAP. I don't put my life -and/or those of others- into jeopardy by hesitating to find out if said robbers really intend to use lethal force on me.
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Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 18, 2016 0:29:37 GMT
The thing about bears is that they don't die quickly unless you make a perfect shot.
And an imperfect shot will most likely get you injured or killed, because it will take a bluff-charge situation into a real charge. There's enough stories about creasing a grizzly's skull without the bullet penetrating, and I can tell you from bear hunting that they don't die easily. My dad shot a black bear a few years back, body shot, perforated the heart... And it still took two minutes to die after it fled. Crying the whole time, but it's not like we could go into the brush for a mercy shot. That was a bit traumatic -- we all felt awful, but sure enough, when we were dressing it out, the poor bear's heart was split almost in two. It just took a long time for death to catch up to it.
So yeah. I mean, obviously you know guns, you've handled them, maybe you've used them a time or two when you're in flight or fight mode and your whole body wants to fly apart into little pieces... But unless you're very confident with a gun, I would ABSOLUTELY advise against a pistol as bear deterrent. A rifle or a shotgun is a different matter. The old saw is "The only reason to carry a pistol is to shoot yourself when the griz is gnawing on your leg." The whiz-bang gun you linked might be an exception -- I don't know much about it. All I can say is that the best tool is the one you're used to and comfortable using, even very quickly under high stress situations.
I like bear spray. It's easy to deploy, comfortable for amateurs (though the most common mistake is deploying it too early), and usually doesn't escalate the bear's reaction. I know for a fact that the Fish and Game people carry it, and they deal with bears and problem bears a hell of a lot more than I ever have.
THAT BEING SAID.
I've spent a lot of time wandering out in nature, in bear country central, and I haven't seen that many. If you happen to be in Alaska in autumn, moose are the real problem. But it's more likely to be the environment that kills you, not animals. It never hurts to be prepared for a bear attack (or anything), but don't overdo it. Think about what will happen if you dislocate a shoulder bouldering or break a leg or something... That's a hell of a lot more likely.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 18, 2016 0:35:00 GMT
Honestly, if you want to use a gun as bear deterrent and haven't practiced a lot, take a shotgun with exploding shells and wait to fire it. But unless you're damn sure you can kill the bear, don't. A lot of charges are bluff charges. I have no experience with bears but if I was charged by a dangerous animal I'd shoot it and not wait to find out if it was a bluff or not. If its not I'll only find out when I'm already getting munched to death. Same with armed home intruders, they point a gun at me which might only be a bluff, but I sure as hell put them down with my shotgun ASAP. I don't put my life -and/or those of others- into jeopardy by hesitating to find out if said robbers really intend to use lethal force on me. I know I made fun of your musket but it would work very well for that ._. Would blow a hole clean through a fella most likely. Old black powder shotguns are a messy way to kill though.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 18, 2016 0:38:03 GMT
The thing about bears is that they don't die quickly unless you make a perfect shot. I've heard, hence why I compared it to gorilla or ape hunting done back in the 60s. There are old hunters tales of them charging you, and folks unloading entire magazines into their chests or heads and them not dying until well after they had frenzied and tore off people's limbs. Animals can be fucking terrifying ._. Thankfully big game cartridges caught up to the threats and today, you have access to several types of ammunition that ideal for dealing near instant death to most anything.
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Spirit talker
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Giant Ambush Beetle
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Dec 18, 2016 0:40:32 GMT
So yeah. I mean, obviously you know guns, you've handled them, maybe you've used them a time or two when you're in flight or fight mode and your whole body wants to fly apart into little pieces... But unless you're very confident with a gun, I would ABSOLUTELY advise against a pistol as bear deterrent. A rifle or a shotgun is a different matter. The old saw is "The only reason to carry a pistol is to shoot yourself when the griz is gnawing on your leg." The whiz-bang gun you linked might be an exception -- I don't know much about it. All I can say is that the best tool is the one you're used to and comfortable using, even very quickly under high stress situations. I agree, I'm not a big fan of pistols and revolvers for any kind of self defense either, especially against the tough denizens of the woods. We do not have any large angry animals around here but I do know handguns can get very fumbly and hard to control in stressful situations, in my opinion a large long gun that points much better, has better ergonomics and much more power is superior to any handgun. As I said, I do not have any bear problems and experience around here (I wish we had bears though, I like those animals) but if I had I'd probably use a shotgun with really heavy hardcast slugs. I do make my own shotgun slugs and load them MUCH hotter and heavier than commercial ammo. My anti-everything slug load is a 650 grain 1 1/2oz hard cast .72 caliber Lyman slug traveling at about 1500 fp/s. I know I made fun of your musket but it would work very well for that ._. Yeah, my 12 bore double rifle was specifically made for hunting dangerous game. You may mock it for its age or for the fact its a muzzle loader but those things were used to put big game down fast, and they worked really well.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 18, 2016 0:49:00 GMT
So yeah. I mean, obviously you know guns, you've handled them, maybe you've used them a time or two when you're in flight or fight mode and your whole body wants to fly apart into little pieces... But unless you're very confident with a gun, I would ABSOLUTELY advise against a pistol as bear deterrent. A rifle or a shotgun is a different matter. The old saw is "The only reason to carry a pistol is to shoot yourself when the griz is gnawing on your leg." The whiz-bang gun you linked might be an exception -- I don't know much about it. All I can say is that the best tool is the one you're used to and comfortable using, even very quickly under high stress situations. I know I made fun of your musket but it would work very well for that ._. Yeah, my 12 bore double rifle was specifically made for hunting dangerous game. You may mock it for its age or for the fact its a muzzle loader but those things were used to put big game down fast, and they worked really well. Nah nothing so trite. Its an effective if aged weapon platform, replica or no. I just view it as inferior to shotguns I myself employ even if it falls short in a few areas, it makes up for them in modernization, my M2 Super for example, I'd label it a far better shotgun, not to knock your own but if we were really going to get into this we should return to the gun thread. Also I'd never mock a musket just for being a musket, though I would cite that movie clip again just because I found it funny when I saw the film in question because they were going after gangbangers and one of them brought a musket.(a family heirloom)
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Trilobite Derby
Drinking rosehip tea, independently.
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August 2016
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 18, 2016 1:26:06 GMT
So in your survival kit: waterproof matches. Nylon string with a high tensile strength. Three or four fish hooks, smaller ones (these are for keep you going fish, not trophy fishing). A few firestarters. A space blanket -- reflective surface is good for signaling for help as well as warm! In a perfect world, you also have a GPS... But I usually don't because I'm terrible. If you're someplace where the water isn't reliably safe, filtration straw.
Skills you should practice: Tying knots. It sounds simple, but they're actually really important, for everything from fishing to making shelter to splinting an injury.
Sorry for nerding all over this thread, but back country and not dying in it is sort of my thing.
Except for now, when it's 40 below and there's two hours of twilight with no daylight. That puts a damper on it even for me.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 18, 2016 1:35:07 GMT
So in your survival kit: waterproof matches. Nylon string with a high tensile strength. Three or four fish hooks, smaller ones (these are for keep you going fish, not trophy fishing). A few firestarters. A space blanket -- reflective surface is good for signaling for help as well as warm! In a perfect world, you also have a GPS... But I usually don't because I'm terrible. If you're someplace where the water isn't reliably safe, filtration straw. Skills you should practice: Tying knots. It sounds simple, but they're actually really important, for everything from fishing to making shelter to splinting an injury. Sorry for nerding all over this thread, but back country and not dying in it is sort of my thing. Except for now, when it's 40 below and there's two hours of twilight with no daylight. That puts a damper on it even for me. Also and here is the really important bit and something so many people forget to do if they aren't regularly going into the wilderness, walk with your pack for a fair distance to build up endurance of carrying it. You can have fifty pounds of gear on your back but it won't do you any favors if you can't travel three miles with it in rough terrain. This is probably my most common exercise with the militia and rifle clubs I volunteer with during the summer for survival training. We walk 10 to 15 miles a day in full gear, just like I did in the Army in basic.
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M'lady of Fine Arts
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Post by Lady Artifice on Dec 18, 2016 2:03:19 GMT
So in your survival kit: waterproof matches. Nylon string with a high tensile strength. Three or four fish hooks, smaller ones (these are for keep you going fish, not trophy fishing). A few firestarters. A space blanket -- reflective surface is good for signaling for help as well as warm! In a perfect world, you also have a GPS... But I usually don't because I'm terrible. If you're someplace where the water isn't reliably safe, filtration straw. Skills you should practice: Tying knots. It sounds simple, but they're actually really important, for everything from fishing to making shelter to splinting an injury. Sorry for nerding all over this thread, but back country and not dying in it is sort of my thing. Except for now, when it's 40 below and there's two hours of twilight with no daylight. That puts a damper on it even for me. Im saving this to a word document. Thank you. I was starting to worry this would just be another thread to argue about guns and whether hunting is evil. What do you think about those emergency garden kits that they sell on Amazon?
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