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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 5:08:11 GMT
If a mage becomes an abomination they won't only become responsible for themselves. And I didn't say anything about mages living outside the circles maybe unless they prove themselves You must be clearer. Before you spoke about Magisters, now you speak about walking bombs. The accidental abominations are very rare things, and can be killed or the demon exorcised, depend on what happened. The malicious Mages can responsible for themselves, and deserves punishment. I'm talking about simple people becoming posessed and there is no one there to stop them. Like Feynriel, he was a simple boy and if not for Hawke or if he was in an uncharted village he would've turned into an abomination. Truth is I always saw mages as spoiled children, there are shitload of people who are in worse situations than them and they act like they're at the center of the world and everything is about them. Excluding some of them and the ones in Kirkwall.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 30, 2017 10:02:03 GMT
You must be clearer. Before you spoke about Magisters, now you speak about walking bombs. The accidental abominations are very rare things, and can be killed or the demon exorcised, depend on what happened. The malicious Mages can responsible for themselves, and deserves punishment. I'm talking about simple people becoming posessed and there is no one there to stop them. Like Feynriel, he was a simple boy and if not for Hawke or if he was in an uncharted village he would've turned into an abomination. Truth is I always saw mages as spoiled children, there are shitload of people who are in worse situations than them and they act like they're at the center of the world and everything is about them. Excluding some of them and the ones in Kirkwall. Feynriel's case is even rarer than an accidental abomination. And: his mother saw, what happen to him, and called a Templar. If the Circles are education centers, every parent can bring their children, or call a Mage/Templar/Seeker, who can help. The danger is no bigger but smaller. Because they are children. They have no responsibility. They have no autonomy. From childhood they live in a tower, locked away from the world. What many Circle Mages know about the world, know it from books and from each other (Émile du Launcet, Finn). That is why many Mages would stay in the Circle. They do not know the life outside the Circle, and are afraid because, with the Chantry's approval, they teach them that the outside world is hostile. They don't need to provide for themselves (how, great, isn't!? – not, they depend on the Chantry's benevolence, they haven't independence), but the Templars are watching their every move (paranoia, lack of privacy).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 14:07:31 GMT
I'm talking about simple people becoming posessed and there is no one there to stop them. Like Feynriel, he was a simple boy and if not for Hawke or if he was in an uncharted village he would've turned into an abomination. Truth is I always saw mages as spoiled children, there are shitload of people who are in worse situations than them and they act like they're at the center of the world and everything is about them. Excluding some of them and the ones in Kirkwall. Well, yes they are like children. As it is the mages are book learned but do not know how to live without supervision, they are imprisoned against their will for magic that they have no control over, that is not life. The circle should have been teaching the mages how to combat and resist demons, teaching the mages how to use and control their magic so they can leave after their study is done and go into the world and live freely and be productive citizens. I am sure their would be mages like the girl praying in the chapel in the Ferelden Circle that don't want to be mages- how better her life would have been if she could have lived outside. The Chantry teaches the populace to be afraid of the mages and the mages to fear outside life to retain their power over the population. Do I sound like I support the Chantry? Why does everyone think that way. I didn't like the Chantry pre inquisition so I made Cassandra divine now it's as I want it, still not perfect but better than Leliana or Viv this was all my point but the argument here has taken a dramatic turn. My original post here was that I didn't like Jowan and reported him to Irwing, I have no idea how we got here
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 1:32:27 GMT
Jowan, that one person my Amell betrayed for her reputation as a rule-following person....
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 6:05:17 GMT
Do I sound like I support the Chantry? Why does everyone think that way. I didn't like the Chantry pre inquisition so I made Cassandra divine now it's as I want it, still not perfect but better than Leliana or Viv this was all my point but the argument here has taken a dramatic turn. My original post here was that I didn't like Jowan and reported him to Irwing, I have no idea how we got here I wasn't making a judgement on your support or nonsupport of the Chantry. As for Jowan I've done it both ways. On one hand Jowan deceived Amell and Lilly then used both to get his sample. On the other he is so afraid of becoming tranquil he makes a rash decision which is consistent with his personality. He made another unwise decision in aligning with Loghain to poison the Arl and convinced himself he wouldn't be responsible for the Arl's murder. Understand not liking Jowan, his VO is whiny and terrible and his actions, well less then admirable. But because he is a mage and treated as a prisoner for simply being born as a mage, I have some sympathy for him. YES HIS VOICE ACTOR. It reminds me of my little cousins spoiled friends I just want to rip hoş eyes off with my bare hands.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 10:11:54 GMT
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Post by Sifr on May 1, 2017 10:45:20 GMT
Ah, I didn't mind Desmond Askew's voice acting. Think he just drew the short straw when it came to voicing NPCs who happened to be whiners, such as Jowan and the villager in Lothering complaining about the Chasind stealing his food. I doubt anyone could pull those lines off and not be grating. Jowan, that one person my Amell betrayed for her reputation as a rule-following person.... My Amell/Surana always sided with Jowan. Amell/Surana has spent years watching Jowan get himself into trouble and has long since come to accept that their friend is a bit of a f**k-up. Still, they never thought he was that much of a complete f**k-up, to be messing around with blood magic in a tower filled with Templars.Jowan being mistaken for a blood mage because his attempts to hide his affair with Lily made him look suspicious, sounds precisely like something that would happen to him. After it became clear that Irving wasn't going to do anything to prevent the Rite being carried out, my Amell/Surana decided to take pity and help Jowan escape. Until he revealed he actually was a blood mage, they had no reason to believe that the Templar's allegations of him being a blood mage were actually true. In their mind, it was the Templars being paranoid and overly cautious, because not even Jowan could be that monumentally stupid. My Amell/Surana was bitter about the betrayal, but refused to apologise for helping him.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 18:18:40 GMT
And i never got the betrayal speach for what i did either...
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 4:17:14 GMT
Jowan, that one person my Amell betrayed for her reputation as a rule-following person.... My Amell/Surana always sided with Jowan. Amell/Surana has spent years watching Jowan get himself into trouble and has long since come to accept that their friend is a bit of a f**k-up. Still, they never thought he was that much of a complete f**k-up, to be messing around with blood magic in a tower filled with Templars.Jowan being mistaken for a blood mage because his attempts to hide his affair with Lily made him look suspicious, sounds precisely like something that would happen to him. After it became clear that Irving wasn't going to do anything to prevent the Rite being carried out, my Amell/Surana decided to take pity and help Jowan escape. Until he revealed he actually was a blood mage, they had no reason to believe that the Templar's allegations of him being a blood mage were actually true. In their mind, it was the Templars being paranoid and overly cautious, because not even Jowan could be that monumentally stupid. My Amell/Surana was bitter about the betrayal, but refused to apologise for helping him. I don't think my Amell really cared. She was highly concerned with the moral aspects of helping someone illegally escape from the Circle and she didn't want to get in trouble for it. She wasn't very regretful of her decision either. She didn't know a life where she didn't trust her superiors (the Templars) and had no reason to doubt them as they were always kind and reasonable towards her. She knew Anders, and he told her of the abuses of the circle, but as she never saw any of such actions, she didn't have much of a reason to trust them. Idk but I think it's possible for a Mage to live in the Circle without seeing Templar abuse and my Amell was one such girl, even though she's heard about it (as gossip and such).
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Post by Catilina on May 2, 2017 8:31:44 GMT
My Amell/Surana always sided with Jowan.
Amell/Surana has spent years watching Jowan get himself into trouble and has long since come to accept that their friend is a bit of a f**k-up. Still, they never thought he was that much of a complete f**k-up, to be messing around with blood magic in a tower filled with Templars.
Jowan being mistaken for a blood mage because his attempts to hide his affair with Lily made him look suspicious, sounds precisely like something that would happen to him. After it became clear that Irving wasn't going to do anything to prevent the Rite being carried out, my Amell/Surana decided to take pity and help Jowan escape.
Until he revealed he actually was a blood mage, they had no reason to believe that the Templar's allegations of him being a blood mage were actually true. In their mind, it was the Templars being paranoid and overly cautious, because not even Jowan could be that monumentally stupid.
My Amell/Surana was bitter about the betrayal, but refused to apologise for helping him. I don't think my Amell really cared. She was highly concerned with the moral aspects of helping someone illegally escape from the Circle and she didn't want to get in trouble for it. She wasn't very regretful of her decision either. She didn't know a life where she didn't trust her superiors (the Templars) and had no reason to doubt them as they were always kind and reasonable towards her. She knew Anders, and he told her of the abuses of the circle, but as she never saw any of such actions, she didn't have much of a reason to trust them. Idk but I think it's possible for a Mage to live in the Circle without seeing Templar abuse and my Amell was one such girl, even though she's heard about it (as gossip and such). She certainly did not see Tranquils, and was very grateful, that she was deprived of her heirloom, so at least she doesn't need to worry it... The Circle is full of sunshine and rainbow! And everyone kisses everyone.
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Post by Iddy on May 2, 2017 12:25:30 GMT
People always talk about the mess with the demon and Connor, but... what about poisoning Arl Eamon? Can that be justified?
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Post by Iddy on May 2, 2017 14:49:07 GMT
People always talk about the mess with the demon and Connor, but... what about poisoning Arl Eamon? Can that be justified? Yes and no. Loghain promised he would be safe from the circle if he help. Jowan believed that. Did he understand the poison was to kill the Arl. Not so sure. Jowan doesn't think things through. All he can think about it staying out of the circle, from becoming a tranquil. He is terrified. Did he brush aside the consequences or does he not care. Again not sure.
Sometimes my warden kills him, gives him to the circle and sometimes lets him god depends.
Well... poison usually isn't used for anything else.
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Post by Sifr on May 2, 2017 15:21:37 GMT
Could be that some mages who've been insitutionalised in the Circle since they were young children, tend to lack the understanding of how sometimes their actions can have major consequences.
We've also seen a lot of Circle mages demonstrate the tendency to focus solely on getting what they want, without stopping to ask the more important follow-up question of... "Yes, and then what?"
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Post by Catilina on May 2, 2017 18:07:29 GMT
People always talk about the mess with the demon and Connor, but... what about poisoning Arl Eamon? Can that be justified? Ferelden's hero and regent told him that this serves Ferelden and promises him freedom. It's stupid to believe people, but also understandable in his situation.
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Post by Sifr on May 4, 2017 18:22:49 GMT
Ferelden's hero and regent told him that this serves Ferelden and promises him freedom. It's stupid to believe people, but also understandable in his situation. Even though Redcliffe is right next door to the Circle, one gets the impression that most mages aren't that familiar with the world outside the tower. It's doubtful that Jowan knows much about the political situation in Ferelden or enough about Eamon to question what he's been ordered to do. He was also primarily dealing with Isolde because she didn't want Eamon to know about Connor's magic, so he might not even have had any real conversation or contact with the Arl. It's not like he needed to be in contact with Eamon to poison his food, he already had access to the family and their personal quarters, via his position as Connor's "tutor".
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Post by phoray on May 7, 2017 4:35:04 GMT
The argument has been made before that Loghain is also well known in Fereldan by everyone as a hero from the war. If a war hero, friend of the king, stops by to tell you that there is this noble putting Fereldan in danger, but you can't outright kill him, best to take care of him quietly...how much will you really question one's "government official" about the stake of the country? especially when you want to believe that you'll receive your desired freedom as a result?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 13:00:36 GMT
The argument has been made before that Loghain is also well known in Fereldan by everyone as a hero from the war. If a war hero, friend of the king, stops by to tell you that there is this noble putting Fereldan in danger, but you can't outright kill him, best to take care of him quietly...how much will you really question one's "government official" about the stake of the country? especially when you want to believe that you'll receive your desired freedom as a result? Keep in mind that Arl Eamon also is an important figure and a hero of some sort, and if you want to hide from people trying to take you, you don't go out and poison important political figures. Especially if you already destroyed your phylactery
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Post by Catilina on May 25, 2017 11:56:04 GMT
The argument has been made before that Loghain is also well known in Fereldan by everyone as a hero from the war. If a war hero, friend of the king, stops by to tell you that there is this noble putting Fereldan in danger, but you can't outright kill him, best to take care of him quietly...how much will you really question one's "government official" about the stake of the country? especially when you want to believe that you'll receive your desired freedom as a result? Keep in mind that Arl Eamon also is an important figure and a hero of some sort, and if you want to hide from people trying to take you, you don't go out and poison important political figures. Especially if you already destroyed your phylactery Oh my…! But we already told, that no matter (or just a bit matter), that his phylactery destroyed, he's still an outlaw. Loghain promised him freedom. Loghain, the regent of Ferelden. The phylacery only makes easier the Templars' work, but without phylactery, they can catch the apostate as city guards the criminals... (DA2, Starkhaven apostates, remember?) So: The Templars work is harder, but not impossible.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 12:39:04 GMT
Keep in mind that Arl Eamon also is an important figure and a hero of some sort, and if you want to hide from people trying to take you, you don't go out and poison important political figures. Especially if you already destroyed your phylactery Oh my…! But we already told, that no matter (or just a bit matter), that his phylactery destroyed, he's still an outlaw. Loghain promised him freedom. Loghain, the regent of Ferelden. The phylacery only makes easier the Templars' work, but without phylactery, they can catch the apostate as city guards the criminals... (DA2, Starkhaven apostates, remember?) So: The Templars work is harder, but not impossible. He shouldn't have gone to a city. If you escape a prison, with your tracking device destroyed you lay low. You don't go to cities or make deals with politicians (no matter how herouic they are) because they have bigger concerns than you and don't give two shits about what happened to you. He should've I dunno cut his hair, grow a beard and changed his clothes then should've stayed in a remote area for a while. You seem to like that dude ,probably because he resembles Anders, but unlike Anders he doesn't know how to run and hide. I'm sorry but for me Jowan is an utter moron
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Post by Catilina on May 25, 2017 12:49:01 GMT
Oh my…! But we already told, that no matter (or just a bit matter), that his phylactery destroyed, he's still an outlaw. Loghain promised him freedom. Loghain, the regent of Ferelden. The phylacery only makes easier the Templars' work, but without phylactery, they can catch the apostate as city guards the criminals... (DA2, Starkhaven apostates, remember?) So: The Templars work is harder, but not impossible. He shouldn't have gone to a city. If you escape a prison, with your tracking device destroyed you lay low. You don't go to cities or make deals with politicians (no matter how herouic they are) because they have bigger concerns than you and don't give two shits about what happened to you. He should've I dunno cut his hair, grow a beard and changed his clothes then should've stayed in a remote area for a while. You seem to like that dude ,probably because he resembles Anders, but unlike Anders he doesn't know how to run and hide. I'm sorry but for me Jowan is an utter moronAnd this is why he can't thinking logically. But still you expect from him a logical thinking... so...? (And Loghain also found him...)
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Post by phoray on Jul 17, 2017 4:14:47 GMT
*There was once a boy. Who saved my life; not by acts of heroism. But by making me laugh- and offering his hand."
Surana, speaking about growing up with Jowan in the tower
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Post by Catilina on Sept 11, 2017 0:17:37 GMT
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Post by Iddy on Sept 19, 2017 14:32:16 GMT
I just came across this quote.
Jowan (Urn of Sacred Ashes): You have wondered, many times, if what happened to me was your doing... But it is too easy to obsess over "what if" and "what could have been." These thoughts will eat away at you, if you let them. Forgive yourself, just as I have forgiven you.
That pretentious little shit. Really? "Forgive me"? You accepted the risks involved in escaping from the Circle. And I sure as hell didn't force you to use blood magic.
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Post by phoray on Sept 19, 2017 16:49:47 GMT
I just came across this quote. Jowan (Urn of Sacred Ashes): You have wondered, many times, if what happened to me was your doing... But it is too easy to obsess over "what if" and "what could have been." These thoughts will eat away at you, if you let them. Forgive yourself, just as I have forgiven you. That pretentious little shit. Really? "Forgive me"? You accepted the risks involved in escaping from the Circle. And I sure as hell didn't force you to use blood magic. I didn't think he was talking about his escape. The way those lines spoke to me and my Surana was... If I had seen in him his need to succeed, truly accepted his fear as real to him, and councilled him, been a truer friend and helped him study more. .. would he have felt his only way to survive was to turn to blood magic? Those are all the "What if's" I feel the spirit is referring to. Also remember that these are spirits reflecting the writers' assumed thoughts in the Warden's head and not the actual thoughts of the characters they're representing. Jowan may never have thought, "I need to forgive the Warden." blah blah.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 16, 2017 23:50:22 GMT
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