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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 29, 2016 3:17:45 GMT
I'm starting a new adventure in DAO with a Dwarf and the problem is that i don't find a good reason to help Ferelden in stopping the blight. Aside from the fact that these aren't even my people the problem is that the Archdemon is a blessing for the dwarves....because so long it will continue to exist the darkspawns will be driven to the surface so that's a benefit. And if you think that is a selfish way of thinking well look at how many battles the Dwarves have to face every day against the darkspawns(without help) because of a problem that was caused by humans(Sorry but it was them who went in the Black city)and then they even dare to ask for help to kill the Archdemons?And when I kill Urthemiel what will happen? The Darkspawns will return to kill my people,so why I should help Ferelden as a Dwarf?! At best I should ensure their failure at killing the Archdemon....
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 29, 2016 3:43:30 GMT
I would think that if the darkspawn managed to overrun the surface, the dwarves would be next. They wouldn't be safe forever. And in the mean time, the lyrium trade is disrupted.
Eh...hopefully someone else will have a deeper explanation.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 29, 2016 3:51:11 GMT
The dwarves should see the value in putting a stop to a Blight as quick as possible exactly because of their experiences with the darkspawn.
To bring up one point: a long and successful Blight for the darkspawn increases the darkspawn numbers. Take broodmothers: a broodmother gives birth to a litter between twenty and fifty darkspawn that grow rapidly within the first few weeks*. In the Deep Roads, it is limited how many females the darkspawn can capture. On the surface? Not so much. Securing Fereldan alone as a foothold would likely provide the Archdemon with a good supply of broodmothers that could pump out wave after wave of darkspawn to replenish and further strengthen its army.
If Fereldan fell to the Archdemon and the country became its territory, the Archdemon would have a prime spot to launch an invasion against Orzammar and why wouldn't it? Orzammar would be a nice and cozy lair with good access to the Deep Roads and thereby the darkspawn network.
There is no real advantage for the dwarves with an on-going Blight: there are fewer darkspawn in the Deep Roads, true, but that's a reprieve that's not even guaranteed to last through the whole Blight and it's not really an advantage or a benefit since it is basically more of a quiet before the storm thing. As I've said, the longer the Blight goes, the more the darkspawn numbers rises and there is no guarantee the darkspawn are not going to turn their eyes towards the homes of the dwarves during the Blight itself especially if such a home is in the territory which surface they're taking over. When the Blight is ended by the way of the Archdemon being defeated, the darkspawn will return to the Deep Roads and there's no guarantee they won't be returning with higher numbers than they had before the Blight begun. This means that the dwarves could end up finding the Deep Roads more crowded than before and face more incursions from the darkspawn.
Note: *Dragon Age: The World of Thedas, vol. 1, p. 148
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Post by Catilina on Dec 29, 2016 3:54:59 GMT
S/he in trouble in the Deep Roads when Duncan recruit him/her. So: s/h do not really have a choice. and:"Grey Wardens and the dwarven people have always had a kinship through their shared battle against the darkspawn. Dwarves are consequently viewed as excellent recruits to the Order due to their experience against the darkspawn. It is also known that dwarven Grey Wardens lifted the hundred day siege of Orzammar.[55] However, as there are fewer dwarves due to low birth rates, there are also fewer dwarven Wardens. Grey Wardens are also the only surface organization to care about the endless war the dwarves wage against the darkspawn in the Deep Roads. When the time of a Grey Warden's Calling draws near, a Warden honors a longstanding agreement between the Wardens and the dwarves and serves a year fighting darkspawn in the Deep Roads at the side of the dwarves.[58] When the advance of the taint is unbearable, the Warden is celebrated by the dwarves and then enters the Deep Roads for their Calling. As noted by Alistair, the dwarves respect the Grey Wardens for their sacrifices."
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Post by capn233 on Dec 29, 2016 4:16:25 GMT
Don't think I ever actually asked myself this question, although you do find some examples of dwarves not caring about the surface problems.
I wanted to know why the DN couldn't stab Bhelen, but what can you do?
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 29, 2016 4:40:01 GMT
In order to reach an Archdemon the majority of his minions needs to be defeated first especially now that the Griffins are gone...so I doubt that there are going to be more Darkspawns returning in the Deep roads after it's death anyway.As for the Broodmothers,it is unclear how many of them are being created by the Darkspawns during a Blight and outside from a Blight,for all I know an Archdemon could simply use the Darkspawns that were spawned over the course of the centuries rather than being that intelligent to know how to create more.
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Post by secretrare on Dec 29, 2016 5:17:46 GMT
In DAA I have seen Darkspawns venturing in the outside world to take females in order to create Broodmothers,so it seem that they don't need to take orders from an Archdemon to do that..but they become more numerous aggressive and dangerous during a blight. I dunno if they become more numerous because more are being created or because the Archdemons are calling all those that were created in between blights over the course of the centuries?During the second blight in Orlais an horde of darkspawns appeared out of nowhere while Zazikale was busy somewhere else.
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Post by oyabun on Dec 29, 2016 5:37:02 GMT
Doesn't matter,Oghren believe that is a matter of time before Orzamar will be taken by the darkspawns(they don't need an Archdemon for that),so it would be better for the Dwarves to have the goodwill of the people in the surface (unless they want to share the same fate of the elves of the Dales).When that will happen there will be no more lyrium for Thedas.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 29, 2016 15:37:26 GMT
In order to reach an Archdemon the majority of his minions needs to be defeated first especially now that the Griffins are gone...so I doubt that there are going to be more Darkspawns returning in the Deep roads after it's death anyway.As for the Broodmothers,it is unclear how many of them are being created by the Darkspawns during a Blight and outside from a Blight,for all I know an Archdemon could simply use the Darkspawns that were spawned over the course of the centuries rather than being that intelligent to know how to create more. Not necessarily. In the Battle of Denerim, the battle was still waging on heavily when the Archdemon fell as can be seen in the cutscene featuring the Archdemon's death in Origin. The darkspawn can be seen clearly fleeing the battle following its demise.
I don't see why the darkspawn would know how to create Broodmothers but the Archdemon, the darkspawn known for being intelligent and capable of constructing strategies, would not. The darkspawn have a hive-mind which is also how the Archdemon communicates and commands its horde without needing to be in their presence. I don't recall seeing anything that indicates it does not have all the information that the non-intelligent darkspawn would have. The Archdemon is also seen in in the Dead Trenches in the Deep Roads where Laryn and Hespith of House Branka are also found. Laryn is the broodmother the Warden encounters in the Deep Roads.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Dec 29, 2016 16:21:12 GMT
In DAA they created some Broodmothers without taking any orders from an archdemon and it was an alpha general who was taking females(almost 4 of them and i'm not counting the Mother),i don 't think they need an archdemon to create the broodmothers.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 29, 2016 16:52:36 GMT
In DAA they created some Broodmothers without taking any orders from an archdemon and it was an alpha general who was taking females(almost 4 of them and i'm not counting the Mother),i don 't think they need an archdemon to create the broodmothers. As far as I've read and seen, they don't need the Archdemon to create broodmothers but the Archdemon should know how to create broodmothers as well seeing as it shares a hive mind with them.
As a side thought, I wonder if the Archdemon would in theory be able to make broodmothers out of High Dragons since all high dragons are female as far as I know.
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Post by phoray on Dec 29, 2016 18:19:06 GMT
I may be repeating some answers.
1. Orzamaar heavily depends on the surface for trade so they don't starve to death. Orzamaar may be larger than presented in game, but it really appears to be a large town with an entrance to the surface at one end, and access to the Deep Roads at the other. And they are either not allowed or not safely capable of going in either direction. The thaigs they relied on for most of their food supply fell long ago. Even if they're mostly self suffient with some Bronto meat and deep muchroom...salad, one good bronto virus could wipe the herd. Same for Deep Mushroom...virus/spores that could kill them too. If Fereldan fell, their surface access would be heavily limited to Orlais, which would be the next country to fall from Darkspawn Incursion. LEaving them surrounded on literally all sides: below as well as all eastern and western exits from the Frostbacks. They would then have to risk going into the Deep Roads to go "around", I guess, to the border of Tevinter. Yeah. This whole idea is just bad.
2. Every Origin mostly involves Duncan saving you from either certain death or likely death. So, generally people feel a bit beholden on that count. I don't know why a Casteless would feel loyal to a race that treated them like dirt. Like, the Casteless aren't even allowed to wash their clothes. Aeducan could arguably see this whole thing as perhaps a way to create a position to win the the royalty position in Orzamaar, but the game doesn't allow for such an outcome like...at all. It's kinda weird, because it seems like Human Law states that becoming a Grey Warden makes you lose all claim to political positions in the world, but I've never read a mention that Orzamaar follows the same rule. Regardless, letting a Blight go on unchecked is not a benefit for anyone.
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Post by phoray on Dec 30, 2016 2:16:52 GMT
Doesn't matter,Oghren believe that is a matter of time before Orzamar will be taken by the darkspawns(they don't need an Archdemon for that),so it would be better for the Dwarves to have the goodwill of the people in the surface (unless they want to share the same fate of the elves of the Dales).When that will happen there will be no more lyrium for Thedas. Interesting idea. And without Lyrium, the Chantry leash would have broken and Templars would be toothless. Well, there is Kal Sharok we have to account for.
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Post by phoray on Dec 30, 2016 2:18:07 GMT
Don't think I ever actually asked myself this question, although you do find some examples of dwarves not caring about the surface problems. I wanted to know why the DN couldn't stab Bhelen, but what can you do? It certainly would confirm the kin killer status as wouldn't get you the throne.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Dec 30, 2016 2:27:24 GMT
In order to reach an Archdemon the majority of his minions needs to be defeated first especially now that the Griffins are gone...so I doubt that there are going to be more Darkspawns returning in the Deep roads after it's death anyway.As for the Broodmothers,it is unclear how many of them are being created by the Darkspawns during a Blight and outside from a Blight,for all I know an Archdemon could simply use the Darkspawns that were spawned over the course of the centuries rather than being that intelligent to know how to create more. But the Broodmothers created during a Blight can't leave for the surface at all. So they aren't going to be on the front lines. They'll just hang back and mother more broods. In the Deep Roads.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 30, 2016 3:33:44 GMT
Aside from the ominous feelings of "you're next" that's geared at all the dwarves, Brosca and Aeducan in particular have nowhere else to go and nothing else to do. Law enforcement/Bhelen/the Carta wants them dead. They've been conscripted. They really have nothing better to do than stab a whole bunch of darkspawn and at least gain a little prestige before trying to stir the pot back home.
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Post by oyabun on Dec 30, 2016 5:46:45 GMT
Aside from the ominous feelings of "you're next" that's geared at all the dwarves, Brosca and Aeducan in particular have nowhere else to go and nothing else to do. Law enforcement/Bhelen/the Carta wants them dead. They've been conscripted. They really have nothing better to do than stab a whole bunch of darkspawn and at least gain a little prestige before trying to stir the pot back home. There is always the Isabela option,take the ship and go to Antiva....and entrust the quest to Alistair...then the Darkspawns Chronicles happen.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 30, 2016 14:43:26 GMT
Aside from the ominous feelings of "you're next" that's geared at all the dwarves, Brosca and Aeducan in particular have nowhere else to go and nothing else to do. Law enforcement/Bhelen/the Carta wants them dead. They've been conscripted. They really have nothing better to do than stab a whole bunch of darkspawn and at least gain a little prestige before trying to stir the pot back home. There is always the Isabela option,take the ship and go to Antiva....and entrust the quest to Alistair...then the Darkspawns Chronicles happen. Yes, there are always options. But they don't want this. They want to fight against the Blight.
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Post by oyabun on Dec 30, 2016 15:59:01 GMT
There is always the Isabela option,take the ship and go to Antiva....and entrust the quest to Alistair...then the Darkspawns Chronicles happen. Yes, there are always options. But they don't want this. T hey want to fight against the Blight.Who the dwarves or the Warden? The Dwarves are forced by the GW traties while the player character can't leave because well...it's the game of DAO the only way you can leave is by not completing the game...
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Post by angelterri on Jan 1, 2017 1:12:05 GMT
I'm starting a new adventure in DAO with a Dwarf and the problem is that i don't find a good reason to help Ferelden in stopping the blight. Aside from the fact that these aren't even my people the problem is that the Archdemon is a blessing for the dwarves....because so long it will continue to exist the darkspawns will be driven to the surface so that's a benefit. And if you think that is a selfish way of thinking well look at how many battles the Dwarves have to face every day against the darkspawns(without help) because of a problem that was caused by humans(Sorry but it was them who went in the Black city)and then they even dare to ask for help to kill the Archdemons?And when I kill Urthemiel what will happen? The Darkspawns will return to kill my people,so why I should help Ferelden as a Dwarf?! At best I should ensure their failure at killing the Archdemon.... An interesting question. You would think that the races above ground should worry as the Darkspawn are pouring out onto the world, but the dwarves have a problem with them too. Remember they are situated near many of the Deep Roads, and down there are where the Darkspawn are made. They could easily attack under and above ground at the same time. Best to have all the races together to stop the Blight. Even Flemmith saw that, and since she is so powerful, she could have just ignored it all.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 10:31:31 GMT
My dwarf was grateful for Duncan saving her and giving her a new life. She didn't much care about who she was killing, just point them out and she'll run at them with her hammer. She was loyal to Wardens, and only came to care about the Blight later on in the game.
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Post by mousestalker on Jan 1, 2017 15:22:29 GMT
The big problem with Archie is that it is intelligent. The common belief is that darkspawn are about as smart as potted plants. As players we know the Architect et al are pretty clever, but the characters in DAO do not know this. The archdemon out thinks Cailan at Ostagar. Admittedly that isn't too difficult, but that still means that an active intelligence is directing a formerly mindless horde of poisonous monsters. Orzammar has been steadily losing ground for centuries. If the archdemon isn't stopped then sooner or later it will go after the dwarves and the dwarves probably can't stop the darkspawn under those circumstances.
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Post by phoray on Jan 6, 2017 15:27:02 GMT
I was at the Winter Palace and three dwarves were discussing Orzamaar. Seems that if the Lyrium trade didn't pick up soon, that they'd run out of food in three months.
Just further support of the idea that the Dwarves are NOT self sufficient.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Jan 8, 2017 6:10:47 GMT
I was at the Winter Palace and three dwarves were discussing Orzamaar. Seems that if the Lyrium trade didn't pick up soon, that they'd run out of food in three months. Just further support of the idea that the Dwarves are NOT self sufficient. They managed to survive for 192 years during the first blight,and more than 90 years during the second one....if they weren't self sufficent they should have been extinct by now.
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Post by phoray on Jan 8, 2017 14:33:40 GMT
Definition of a Blight:"D uring the Blight unnatural dark clouds shroud the sky, providing shelter for the sun-fearing darkspawn. They obscure the sun in the daytime and the moon and stars at night, and form a perpetual storm that can be seen from afar. Soundless violet lightning sometimes flashes at the eye of the storm. The black clouds offer hardly any rain, and the rivers run dry. These conditions alone lead to deterioration of plant life, including forests, crops and seaweeds. Children and livestock born under the Blight clouds tend to be small and weak, often deformed and susceptible to disease."
"The First Blight is arguably the single most devastating event in the history of the dwarven race. The empire came to its knees as darkspawn flooded the Deep Roads that connected the countless thaigs and cities."---"Thedas was nearly overrun and the dwarven race nearly extinguished."Only with the founding of the Grey Wardens in -305 Ancient (890 TE) the tide turned." .....
"as most of the Deep Roads are sealed, communication lines faltered between the surviving kingdoms. Because of that, at -195 Ancient (1000 TE), each kingdom elected its own king while maintaining allegiance to the High King of Orzammar."
....
"in an effort to save the race from complete annihilation, High King Threestone ordered the sealing of the Deep Roads leading to the remaining three kingdoms in -45 Ancient (1155 TE).[22] Within a decade the kingdoms of Gundaar and Hormak had fallen.[6] The last of the Roads are sealed in -15 Ancient (1180 TE) cutting off Kal-Sharok which is believed lost."
.... "Even though the sealing of the Deep Roads significantly decreased the pressure on Orzammar, the darkspawn were able to find ways to breach them. For the next centuries, the kingdom was in a steady decline by losing most of its outlying thaigs." ....
"During the Fourth Blight the dwarves of Orzammar assisted the Imperium in lifting the siege of Marnas Pell, however the Ortan Thaig was lost."
Then there are the comments from surface dwarves selling to Orzamaar that they are a life line. And the paraphrase quote I posted regarding what the dwarves said in the Winter Palace.
If the underground dwarves faced annihilation at the the height of their Empire due to the very First Blight, they have no chance of surviving now that they barely have two kingdoms that rely entirely and completely on the surface for trade and income. it was partially their in fighting that cost their people so dearly in the first Blight. so it is not confidence, but blindness, that guides them to insist on naming a King instead of immediately helping the Warden.
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