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Post by Iddy on Oct 16, 2019 12:10:55 GMT
*shrug* Vivienne is just one of those brutally honest people that some people tend to just hate on principle truth told I didn't know what to make of her my first time around, but the more I see of her, the more I...like her? still don't understand how they could have made her a choice for becoming the Divine but eh *shrug* The problem with Vivienne is the hypocrisy. It's "Freedom for me, tower walls for the *malcontents* ". It's not "Just because she speaks her mind".
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,824 Likes: 11,923
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LadyofNemesis
4,824
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 16, 2019 12:22:05 GMT
*shrug* Vivienne is just one of those brutally honest people that some people tend to just hate on principle truth told I didn't know what to make of her my first time around, but the more I see of her, the more I...like her? still don't understand how they could have made her a choice for becoming the Divine but eh *shrug* The problem with Vivienne is the hypocrisy. It's "Freedom for me, tower walls for the *malcontents* ". It's not "Just because she speaks her mind". true that, that's why I don't understand the fact she can even be considered as Divine
she's all about having power for her, anyone else can just go ahead and burn, unless they bow down to her which in hindsight makes me wonder how my Qunari was able to get her as Divine (I picked all the choices I normally did in dialogue after all) ...must've been the templar choice and the fact Celene kept living...hm...yeah, that's probably it
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Post by Iddy on Oct 16, 2019 13:57:41 GMT
Ah, one of the few things that I liked about Vivienne. Iddy : It’s both. Blackwall: How can you possibly dislike the Grey Wardens, Vivienne? (Before Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: Really? How many people do they conscript in the name of "vigilance against the Blight"? Hundreds? Thousands? For a threat that recent history tells us can be successfully ended by just two. Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door. (After Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: You can't seriously ask me that after what happened at Adamant. Vivienne: Where shall I start, my dear? The blood magic? Human sacrifice? Demon summoning? Or the part where they serve Corypheus? Vivienne: Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door.
Looks like being overcompetent can backfire
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Catilina
11,030
August 2016
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Oct 18, 2019 2:36:28 GMT
Ah, one of the few things that I liked about Vivienne. Iddy : It’s both. Blackwall: How can you possibly dislike the Grey Wardens, Vivienne? (Before Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: Really? How many people do they conscript in the name of "vigilance against the Blight"? Hundreds? Thousands? For a threat that recent history tells us can be successfully ended by just two. Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door. (After Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: You can't seriously ask me that after what happened at Adamant. Vivienne: Where shall I start, my dear? The blood magic? Human sacrifice? Demon summoning? Or the part where they serve Corypheus? Vivienne: Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door.
Vivienne just a narrow minded, mannerless Orlesian, who just chattering all kinds of nonsense. Blackwall is great here!
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Apr 20, 2024 10:24:31 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 18, 2019 18:09:57 GMT
Ah, one of the few things that I liked about Vivienne. Iddy : It’s both. Blackwall: How can you possibly dislike the Grey Wardens, Vivienne? (Before Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: Really? How many people do they conscript in the name of "vigilance against the Blight"? Hundreds? Thousands? For a threat that recent history tells us can be successfully ended by just two. Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door. (After Here Lies the Abyss)
Vivienne: You can't seriously ask me that after what happened at Adamant. Vivienne: Where shall I start, my dear? The blood magic? Human sacrifice? Demon summoning? Or the part where they serve Corypheus? Vivienne: Yes, they certainly are heroes, and not at all a wasteful relic of a bygone age. Whatever could I find objectionable? Blackwall: Say that again when a blight's at your door.
Vivienne just a narrow minded, mannerless Orlesian, who just chattering all kinds of nonsense. Blackwall is great here! You would side with the crazy lying stalker who slaughtered innocent people.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,824 Likes: 11,923
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LadyofNemesis
4,824
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 18, 2019 18:34:58 GMT
Vivienne just a narrow minded, mannerless Orlesian, who just chattering all kinds of nonsense. Blackwall is great here! You would side with the crazy lying stalker who slaughtered innocent people. not to start a war here but...does this sound familiar or is that just me?
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Post by Iddy on Oct 18, 2019 18:39:21 GMT
Vivienne just a narrow minded, mannerless Orlesian, who just chattering all kinds of nonsense. Blackwall is great here! You would side with the crazy lying stalker who slaughtered innocent people. I mean... at least he abandoned his old ways. I haven't seen Vivienne change at all.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
inherit
621
0
10,214
House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Oct 19, 2019 18:03:24 GMT
Viv is just a bitch and goes out of her way to rub people the wrong way. She'll tell you like it and doesn't sugar coat anything. I can relate to that but there is a fine line in being subtle and being an outright asshole about how you approach it. Other than the Ink the only person she gets along with is Iron Bull. Most likely because he views her like a Tamassran and shows her respect and subservience towards her.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 21, 2019 16:42:47 GMT
You know, I love the fact that David Gaider is a gay man... but still does gay jokes like anyone else.
Oghren: So, you and the Grey Warden, huh? (Chuckles)
Morrigan: I hope you're not referring to Alistair.
Oghren: Him? Does he even like girls?
Morrigan: I believe the matter is still up for debate.
Alistair: (if present) *Sigh* I'm right here, you know.
Varric: So I hear you're kind of the black sheep in your family, Sparkler.
Dorian: Where does that saying come from? I'm not a sheep. No one in my family could be described a "sheep".
Varric: I'm just saying, you and I have... something in common.
Dorian: Goodness, I had no idea.
Varric: Okay, not that much in common.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 25, 2019 16:38:14 GMT
Vivienne: So, an apostate?
Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle.
Vivienne: Well, dear, I hope you can take care of yourself, should we encounter anything outside your experience.
Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven. Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there.
Solas my guy, I do like you, and I can relate to wanting to tell Vivienne to go fuck herself. But this is just strawmanning.
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 25, 2019 18:27:39 GMT
If it wasn’t for Solas there wouldn’t be any rifts at Haven to seal.
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 26, 2019 10:07:23 GMT
Vivienne: So, an apostate? Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle. Vivienne: Well, dear, I hope you can take care of yourself, should we encounter anything outside your experience. Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven. Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there. Solas my guy, I do like you, and I can relate to wanting to tell Vivienne to go fuck herself. But this is just strawmanning. If it wasn’t for Solas there wouldn’t be any rifts at Haven to seal.
Haha, I still like this exchange very much. Circle-trained mages tend to be rather self-absorbed about their training being the only "valid" one. Even Anders prattles on how circle/tevinter (because that is where it comes from) mage edaucation is so superior to anything else.
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1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Oct 30, 2019 21:34:45 GMT
Haha, I still like this exchange very much. Circle-trained mages tend to be rather self-absorbed about their training being the only "valid" one. Even Anders prattles on how circle/tevinter (because that is where it comes from) mage edaucation is so superior to anything else. Meanwhile Morrigan smugly trolls everyone by turning into a bird, as if to say;
"Does any of your 'superior education' allow you to turn into an animal? No, I didn't think so."
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xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
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Post by xerrai on Oct 31, 2019 18:14:18 GMT
Vivienne just a narrow minded, mannerless Orlesian, who just chattering all kinds of nonsense. Blackwall is great here! You would side with the crazy lying stalker who slaughtered innocent people. I don't hate Vivienne on sheer principle on anything but in many cases, yea. Damn straight I will go for the "crazy lying stalker" over Vivienne. At least Blackwall acknowledges what he did was wrong and continually (albeit through shady means) attempted to repent for it. Vivienne on the other hand is so self-serving at all times that she seems completely willing to permit wrongdoing so long as it benefits her in some way. It really says something that even as Divine with conservative leanings, Cassandra identifies Vivienne as a "tyrant" who is only in it for herself. Meanwhile almost all of Blackwall's endings shows or implies that he contributed to the common good or turned himself in. So yeah, Blackwall > Vivienne almost any day. That being said, Vivienne does make some good points here. The Wardens in the DAI have done incredibly dangerous things like blood magic, demon summoning etc. And while we as players know the 5th Blight was an outlier that mostly relied on the Warden solving political crises in record time, Vivienne wouldn't know that. She just sees a banding of non-warden parties successfully fighting off the darkspawn and archdemon….and potentially defeating it. I really doubt Vivienne knows that a warden is 100% required to kill the archdemon. She probably thinks that any soldier with a sword can do that. Not that I can blame her, warden secret and all that. But if nothing else, the Wardens need a bit of restructuring. Still though, I'd rather keep the Wardens as an autonomous organization than reducing it to whatever Vivienne has in mind (which is probably non-existence).
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1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Dec 16, 2019 19:59:24 GMT
In DAA if you choose a certain voice for a Fem Elf (don't remember what), you can stumble on such scene: villages/cilivians made a fuzz "give us food etc" (you can use your talents calm them down or say "draw your weapons"). So the funny and cold-blooded scene was: a GW while slaughering the last civilian said with a jolie voice "It's a fine thing we have done". That made my day actually. Played as a melee warrior and that phrase was pronounced exactly during fatality animation. That was even more funnier. in DAO all PB with Zevran/in DA2 with Varric/in DAI with Varric or Dorian are awesome. As I wrote somewhere: choose any other party member and above mentioned characters and enjoy PT - it's never boring. + DA 2 in DLC "The MoftheA" with angry Hawke 2h-warrior (don't know if it matters here) - click on Varric "Why you never take me anywhere nice?!"
After leaving Tallis stumbled only once on the dialogue (don't remebmer it now) before you encounter 2 large lizzards - Hawke tells Varric that she had a feeling that in the beginning of the game (when a thug stole your money), Varric was actually waiting and thinking how to approach Hawke and watching her. Varric answered in his usual evasive manner but the answer was "yes". That was funny.
In DAI PB btw Varric and Cass are special, even Dorian mentions it "Are you and Cass...?" (this PB has already been mentioned here).
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Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
Posts: 452 Likes: 564
inherit
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452
Sept 4, 2016 18:38:24 GMT
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quickpaw
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Tuldabar
Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Dec 17, 2019 1:31:01 GMT
Most of Varric/Cass's Hawke or Quizzy romance related ones are complete gems.
"Varric... does Hawke ever autograph books?" "Why? Doesn't your copy of 'The Tale of the Champion' have a big hole in it?" "Yes, but it could... ALSO have Hawke's signature on it..."
"You brought up Bianca, Seeker. Does that mean I can ask about YOUR conquests?" "I'd rather you didn't." "No tantalizing secrets to divulge?" "NONE." "So noone within say... five foot radius has caught your eye?" You: "... Really? Noone at all?" "This... is NOT a discussion I wish to have here!" "Haha are you BLUSHING Seeker?! Maker, the world really is coming to an end!"
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Dec 17, 2019 12:04:24 GMT
There is a discussion about Viv. Would like to add something and after write interesting Isi battle comments. I agree 100% about everything - VIv is a power-hungry bitch, Orlisian bitch, arrogant bitch. As divine she wants to restore order, yes, circles, Templar Order etc. BUT with her narrow-mided vision as a circle mage she just can't understand - there are no circles, there are no templars as they were. Things have changes, Everything changed. And reforms is a "must be". But Viv can't see that. BUT with her many-many flaws I still respect her for several things: - she left her cozy warm palace to join the Inquisition (even to gain power, whatever), and settled down in the snowy cold hovel called Haven; she lived there; - she fought side by side with others, even with those PB where it is clear as day your squdmates just hate each other; - during Haven attack - the last fight with distraction - each member has a line to say, Viv as well "You want a stectacle, you'll have it" (with determned voice) - she, as well as others, was ready to die; - she is very talanted as a mage , quick to learn, patient, she knows the danger of maagic; - she is one of few characters who'll tell you to your face w/o any evasions what she thinks about you (it's maybe for me a good human traint, but I really prefer such people even in real life) - maybe there are more but now can't remember. So in general I prefer Viv to Solas (whom I'd like to break a neck,srew-up-in-a row-user-lier-asshole) Viv has many flaws (other character as well, like I think Cass is a great character but her HUGE FLAW - her faith blinds her and because of that sometimes she can't see what the hell is going on really as "faith" is more important), but at the same time there are many things for which you can respect Viv (not like Solas).
And more funny lines: DA2 Isi comments during and after the fight - "If we kill them, we can get thir stuff!" (during the fight) - "Loot the bodies" (right after the fight) Alwas make me laugh.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 17, 2019 13:17:52 GMT
There is a discussion about Viv. Would like to add something and after write interesting Isi battle comments. I agree 100% about everything - VIv is a power-hungry bitch, Orlisian bitch, arrogant bitch. As divine she wants to restore order, yes, circles, Templar Order etc. BUT with her narrow-mided vision as a circle mage she just can't understand - there are no circles, there are no templars as they were. Things have changes, Everything changed. And reforms is a "must be". But Viv can't see that. BUT with her many-many flaws I still respect her for several things: - she left her cozy warm palace to join the Inquisition (even to gain power, whatever), and settled down in the snowy cold hovel called Haven; she lived there; - she fought side by side with others, even with those PB where it is clear as day your squdmates just hate each other; - during Haven attack - the last fight with distraction - each member has a line to say, Viv as well "You want a stectacle, you'll have it" (with determned voice) - she, as well as others, was ready to die; - she is very talanted as a mage , quick to learn, patient, she knows the danger of maagic; - she is one of few characters who'll tell you to your face w/o any evasions what she thinks about you (it's maybe for me a good human traint, but I really prefer such people even in real life) - maybe there are more but now can't remember. So in general I prefer Viv to Solas (whom I'd like to break a neck,srew-up-in-a row-user-lier-asshole) Viv has many flaws (other character as well, like I think Cass is a great character but her HUGE FLAW - her faith blinds her and because of that sometimes she can't see what the hell is going on really as "faith" is more important), but at the same time there are many things for which you can respect Viv (not like Solas). And more funny lines: DA2 Isi comments during and after the fight - "If we kill them, we can get thir stuff!" (during the fight) - "Loot the bodies" (right after the fight) Alwas make me laugh. Deadly danger and coexisting with people she hates is part of the Game, so that's nothing new to Vivienne. And living in Haven for a little while is no great sacrifice, since it was always meant to be a temporary inconvenience.
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1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Dec 17, 2019 14:12:57 GMT
Deadly danger and coexisting with people she hates is part of the Game, so that's nothing new to Vivienne. And living in Haven for a little while is no great sacrifice, since it was always meant to be a temporary inconvenience. I'm not trying to convince someone here, Iddy. I only express my own opinion of one character - Viv - as I see her. I agree, some of my points are no "great sacrafices", I didn't say that. But still, IMO, she still made those not so great sacrafiices ,fought with you (even she is a bitch, as I told, was readyro die and take as mant enemies as she can. I wrote it trying to show Viv still can be respected for something at least (of course, as I see it, others have there own opinions). Even if she is an Orlisian power-hungry bitch.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 17, 2019 14:30:15 GMT
Deadly danger and coexisting with people she hates is part of the Game, so that's nothing new to Vivienne. And living in Haven for a little while is no great sacrifice, since it was always meant to be a temporary inconvenience. I'm not trying to convince someone here, Iddy. I only express my own opinion of one character - Viv - as I see her. I agree, some of my points are no "great sacrafices", I didn't say that. But still, IMO, she still made those not so great sacrafiices ,fought with you (even she is a bitch, as I told, was readyro die and take as mant enemies as she can. I wrote it trying to show Viv still can be respected for something at least (of course, as I see it, others have there own opinions). Even if she is an Orlisian power-hungry bitch. She is good at what she does, if nothing else.
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1,332
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jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Dec 17, 2019 14:43:40 GMT
She is good at what she does yes, sexy strong barriers +sexy strong focus ability. At least something: she is good at fighting (though I always take Dorian, as Viv is boring in PB and Dorian does his "barrier + revive" job very well).
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0
9,164
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,820
February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 17, 2019 20:43:46 GMT
People keep saying "power-hungry bitch" like it's a bad thing.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 18, 2019 12:38:32 GMT
People keep saying "power-hungry bitch" like it's a bad thing. Yeah... greed usually is frowned upon. It's a little more tolerable when a villain has this trait since it's kinda expected, but not from your ally.
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1,332
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Dec 18, 2019 14:47:45 GMT
People keep saying "power-hungry bitch" like it's a bad thing. maybe not, depends. It's like in out culture there are unwrittten rules "don't talk about this or that": start talkig about death or birth and you'll get back resistant comments "how can you talk about it?!" (yeah, as if people don't know that we all are born and die) etc etc etc. The same for "power-hungry bitch". It's mostly considered that "power-hungry "people are bad people. As I wrote, it depends on the situation. In Viv situation is it mostly a bad thing, IMO of course (as I see the result in the very end and other things with this trait e.g.). Being a "bitch" also depends on the situation. Some people don't care if they are called "a bitch". Like Viv herself. She knows that and doesn't care. In our world it's the same. Everything depends on the situation and people who think so.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
inherit
621
0
10,214
House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
1,584
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 23, 2019 18:17:28 GMT
Dorian: Any thoughts on this "Herald of Andraste" business, Blackwall? Blackwall: Why? Dorian: I just need to know you're capable of higher thought. For my own comfort. Blackwall: Then you'd be better served giving me a word puzzle. Dorian: You'd do a word puzzle if I gave it to you? Blackwall: Not a chance.
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