Zikade
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Zikade on Feb 20, 2017 20:35:17 GMT
Carver. Warden Carver storyline to be specific (since I still haven't finished my Templar-Carver playthrough =P). While Bethany is sweet and my (second) Hawke felt very protective of her, as a character I find her more... bland. She's almost too agreeable. Carver was openly challenging Hawke. While he could annoy me, I also wanted to get to the bottom of their issues: his obvious inferiority complex. Their relationship was just more interesting for me since it provided some challenge. I also felt like Carver had more fun things to say during quests / party banter. Then comes the development! The way he changes when becoming a Warden... finding purpose and acknowledging how he acted like an ass in the past. It's beautiful how much he grows as a person.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2017 12:01:09 GMT
It's very satisfying to watch Carver develop as a character. Bethany is horribly dull.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 13:39:40 GMT
It's very satisfying to watch Carver develop as a character. Bethany is horribly dull. Not as much as I thought. I'm happy, that I gave her a second chance. But Carver still more fun.
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Post by sgtsteel91 on Feb 21, 2017 15:20:04 GMT
I really like the story with Cricle Bethany.
Hawke, with the responsibility of Big Brother, tries to protect Bethany but still loses her to the Templars. And from then on it's almost like a hostage situation, where Hawke may support Mage freedom and chafe being jerked around by the Chantry, but Meredith can get him to fall in line by threatening his little Sister.
Up until the Annulmant is called, then all bets are off. Damn all the power and titles in Kirkwall, Hawke lost his father to illness, his brother to the Blight, and his Mother to a Blood Mage. No way in hell is he going to lose the last of his family to the Templars while he still breaths.
Hawke and Bethany are done running and living in fear of the Templars. And in the end they give hope to the Mages by proving that the mighty Templar Order can be beaten; they can be stopped.
And I like Warrior Hawke more than Mage Hawke, so there's that too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 18:10:59 GMT
I narrowly prefer Carver, because I've liked the banter with him/companions better, and because he proved to be more useful to me in a professional capacity than Bethany. I also feel that it is unfair that Bethany gets to live in 2/3 class choices, but she fits well with Act 3 storyline. I've liked how Carver looked more than Bethany. :)
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Beregond5
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Post by Beregond5 on Mar 11, 2017 14:31:23 GMT
Wow, 46 votes in and it's a tie for the moment, don't think I've ever seen that happening in any of the other polls here. XD
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avalion
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Post by avalion on May 7, 2017 17:31:52 GMT
Bethany but I love Carver too.
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ryderflynn
N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
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Post by ryderflynn on May 8, 2017 14:15:52 GMT
Bethany, easily by far even if she somehow turns into an abomination with the face of Pumpkinhead and Cryptkeeper crossed together. I hated Carver from the get-go, despite being willing to give him a chance afterwards. And it's not necessarily a bad thing to hate him either. Some antagonists are meant to be hated and detestable; Carver is one such character because you're forced into having him when you become a mage (and him a potential Templar). He's practically the shadow to your light, the Vader to your Skywalker, the perfect antagonist.
Good match-up aside, I still prefer Beth of course. Not only is she nicer, she doesn't have that whole "woe is me, I'm insecure because of my sister issues" cliche crap written into her character. It's so shallow and contrived. Yes, this kind of sister/brother rivalry do happen in real life, but more often than not, I've seen less venom between real life siblings in spite of their differences. Carver, on the other hand, straight up said at the beginning, "This is YOUR problem, dear sister, being savagely hunted down by Templars and possibly tranquiled thereafter, not me!" What a prick. Even my sarcastic Hawke went for the more aggressive "Shut the hell up!" option.
I hate that Carver is forced onto you like that. Would've liked to see how Beth would act with a mage big sister around to protect her. C'mon, there's storytelling potential there!
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Post by Catilina on May 8, 2017 19:39:22 GMT
Bethany, easily by far even if she somehow turns into an abomination with the face of Pumpkinhead and Cryptkeeper crossed together. I hated Carver from the get-go, despite being willing to give him a chance afterwards. And it's not necessarily a bad thing to hate him either. Some antagonists are meant to be hated and detestable; Carver is one such character because you're forced into having him when you become a mage (and him a potential Templar). He's practically the shadow to your light, the Vader to your Skywalker, the perfect antagonist. Good match-up aside, I still prefer Beth of course. Not only is she nicer, she doesn't have that whole "woe is me, I'm insecure because of my sister issues" cliche crap written into her character. It's so shallow and contrived. Yes, this kind of sister/brother rivalry do happen in real life, but more often than not, I've seen less venom between real life siblings in spite of their differences. Carver, on the other hand, straight up said at the beginning, "This is YOUR problem, dear sister, being savagely hunted down by Templars and possibly tranquiled thereafter, not me!" What a prick. Even my sarcastic Hawke went for the more aggressive "Shut the hell up!" option. I hate that Carver is forced onto you like that. Would've liked to see how Beth would act with a mage big sister around to protect her. C'mon, there's storytelling potential there! He just a defiant little bastard, but:
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Abraxas
N2
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Abraxas on May 8, 2017 19:42:29 GMT
I like Carver's character development more than Bethany's, specially as a Grey Warden. Though Bethany is a cinnamon roll (specially as a Circle mage).
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ryderflynn
N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
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Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
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Post by ryderflynn on May 8, 2017 19:48:15 GMT
Bethany, easily by far even if she somehow turns into an abomination with the face of Pumpkinhead and Cryptkeeper crossed together. I hated Carver from the get-go, despite being willing to give him a chance afterwards. And it's not necessarily a bad thing to hate him either. Some antagonists are meant to be hated and detestable; Carver is one such character because you're forced into having him when you become a mage (and him a potential Templar). He's practically the shadow to your light, the Vader to your Skywalker, the perfect antagonist. Good match-up aside, I still prefer Beth of course. Not only is she nicer, she doesn't have that whole "woe is me, I'm insecure because of my sister issues" cliche crap written into her character. It's so shallow and contrived. Yes, this kind of sister/brother rivalry do happen in real life, but more often than not, I've seen less venom between real life siblings in spite of their differences. Carver, on the other hand, straight up said at the beginning, "This is YOUR problem, dear sister, being savagely hunted down by Templars and possibly tranquiled thereafter, not me!" What a prick. Even my sarcastic Hawke went for the more aggressive "Shut the hell up!" option. I hate that Carver is forced onto you like that. Would've liked to see how Beth would act with a mage big sister around to protect her. C'mon, there's storytelling potential there! He just a defiant little bastard, but: Hah. That was... sweet. Damn, I didn't get that dialogue though when I recruited Fenris. Might have made me change my view. I picked "Find out" instead of "Nothing" when Fenris asked what my Hawke was seeking, as she was sort of teasing Fenris at that point (sexually or otherwise). Anyway, maybe I'll have more opportunities to see Carver's good side later on.
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Post by Catilina on May 8, 2017 23:49:38 GMT
I like Carver's character development more than Bethany's, specially as a Grey Warden. Though Bethany is a cinnamon roll (specially as a Circle mage). Bethany just a sweet "cinnamon roll"? I think she's a little bit more. she's a great character. I thought at first, that she's boring good girl with some annoying martyrdom (she feels a burden), but she's more interesting than this. And she has development, especially as Circle Mage (as Grey Warden, she's sad). At the beginning, she looks up at Anders, that he was able to escape alone, while her freedom was always protected by someone else. At the end she recognized, that she need to fight for the others, this is her cause, and not she needs to run away, rather the world needs to change, and the people must learn to live together with the free mages. This is a development, not a little. Carver as Templar is disappointed. He realizes he did not expect this. As Grey Warden, he finally finds his way, and feels useful. I like his Templar way, because this fits more my Hawke(s) and his nexus.
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Abraxas
N2
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Abraxas on May 9, 2017 0:04:10 GMT
Yeah, she got character development as well. But, she is kinda annoying sometimes. Because that martyrdom and the like.
Carver, on the other hand, starts as an annoying little brother with inferiority complex, but really grown ups as a Grey Warden. He finds his purpose in life, feels fulfilled and in the end, is able to come to terms with his brother.
Granted, though. I have not played a templar Carver, who, from I've read, has not a good character development. Until Inquisition, I bore no love for the Templars, so, never though in allowing Carver go that way. Bethany maybe beats Carver in that respect (as I've played both, Circle mage Beth, and GW Beth).
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2017 0:30:01 GMT
Yeah, she got character development as well. But, she is kinda annoying sometimes. Because that martyrdom and the like. Carver, on the other hand, starts as an annoying little brother with inferiority complex, but really grown ups as a Grey Warden. He finds his purpose in life, feels fulfilled and in the end, is able to come to terms with his brother. Granted, though. I have not played a templar Carver, who, from I've read, has not a good character development. Until Inquisition, I bore no love for the Templars, so, never though in allowing Carver go that way. Bethany maybe beats Carver in that respect (as I've played both, Circle mage Beth, and GW Beth). I see, what you want to say, I thought the same way about Bethany, until my last finished game. (Left Bethany at home was a hard decision, because I always felt, that Bethany better if join to the Expedition, because Kirkwall more dangerous to a mage – she says the same thing before the expedition.) About the Templar Carver: it shows so well, how disappointed is he, if Hawke left him at home. But I think, not only Hawke caused his decision, Aveline also was an asshole toward him. And there is the letter about the Templar, from whom he was named. So: his reason to become Templar was: disappoint, defiance, and a good example, what even a connection to his Father (mixes with some naivety). And: they still needed some coin. This is his way, at the moment. This is his choice, not an accident. Even if he regret it slightly, so: not worse than the other. And seems logical to left him at home: Hawke wants to protect him and his mother.
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Post by themikefest on May 9, 2017 4:07:09 GMT
Bethany
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ryderflynn
N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
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Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
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Post by ryderflynn on May 9, 2017 6:57:38 GMT
About the Templar Carver: it shows so well, how disappointed is he, if Hawke left him at home. But I think, not only Hawke caused his decision, Aveline also was an asshole toward him. And there is the letter about the Templar, from whom he was named. So: his reason to become Templar was: disappoint, defiance, and a good example, what even a connection to his Father (mixes with some naivety). And: they still needed some coin. This is his way, at the moment. This is his choice, not an accident. Even if he regret it slightly, so: not worse than the other. And seems logical to left him at home: Hawke wants to protect him and his mother. I think I might go for Templar Carver just for that, and not because I wanted an excuse to hate him more. Like I said before, he feels like such an appropriate foil to mage-Hawke's character, being at complete opposites of the Mage-Templar war. I like the idea of Carver struggling with the dilemma of picking the other side, that even though he might not really want to turn his sister into a walking vegetable of a tranquil at all, he still want to follow his own destiny (seems to be the theme of this game) and whatnot. Very Star Wars-ish with the dark side. Reminds me of Anakin, but in a good way. "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO SAVE THE MAGES, NOT SLAUGHTER THEM!" "I HATE YOU!" "You were my brother, Carver. I loved you."
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Post by Rascoth on May 9, 2017 13:55:36 GMT
Carver, especially Templar Carver. I like Bethany, my first pt was as warrior with Grey Warden Bethany, second as rogue with Circle Bethany (Circle Bethany > Grey Waden Bethany, which shows I overall I prefer Circle/Templar route for sibling). But when I got to play as mage and got to know Carver better, he just won me over LINK
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2017 18:36:17 GMT
Carver, especially Templar Carver. I like Bethany, my first pt was as warrior with Grey Warden Bethany, second as rogue with Circle Bethany (Circle Bethany > Grey Waden Bethany, which shows I overall I prefer Circle/Templar route for sibling). But when I got to play as mage and got to know Carver better, he just won me over LINKI now plan Grey Warden Carver, but so feckin' hard with this Hawke... Help! I feel, that he wants to leave him at home...
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Abraxas
N2
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Abraxas on May 9, 2017 19:19:46 GMT
Well, Carver insists to go to the Expendition. Ratter stubbornly. He gets really upset if he is left at home. That kind of Hawke must allow him to accompany him just to not hear him ranting in the future (he can imagine the discussion when he returns home, as he has no way to know that Carver will join the Templars instead).
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2017 19:40:56 GMT
Well, Carver insists to go to the Expendition. Ratter stubbornly. He gets really upset if he is left at home. That kind of Hawke must allow him to accompany him just to not hear him ranting in the future (he can imagine the discussion when he returns home, as he has no way to know that Carver will join the Templars instead). I thought about it, but this so beautiful rivalry would culminate if Carver could become Templar... eh!
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ryderflynn
N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
Posts: 369 Likes: 328
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Post by ryderflynn on May 9, 2017 19:43:51 GMT
as he has no way to know that Carver will join the Templars instead). I think that's all the more reason my Mage-Hawke left him at home. Considering she's a protective big sister, hearing her mother's ominous words triggered all kinds of warning bells in her that it might not be such a good idea to take her brother into the place where Darkspawns are the most common. I think that, in spite of the differences between the Hawke siblings, she still treats him like a precious little brother (emphasis on "little") needing protection. Her mother wasn't lying when she said Hawke was "doing what she thinks is best for you". Makes Carver joining the Templars all the more tragic...
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Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
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Post by Abraxas on May 9, 2017 20:15:08 GMT
Well, yeah. But Catilina is asking for a rp reason to allow Carver to join the expedition, lol
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2017 20:22:40 GMT
Well, yeah. But Catilina is asking for a rp reason to allow Carver to join the expedition, lol Yes, and probably I will try that way, just I still see the wasted opportunity. I admit, so good to see, when Carver wants to join to Hawke, but the duty and Meredith didn't let him go... On the other hand, I so long time ago played with Warden Carver, and would be interesting again. Warden Carver a bit better with a blue Hawke, probably. Hmmm, but blue Hawke probably would leave him for protect him, and for their mother. And red/purple Hawke can take him, for fun, or because can understand him... somehow. (They don't hate each other, regardless the rivalry.)
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N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
Posts: 369 Likes: 328
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Post by ryderflynn on May 11, 2017 22:25:01 GMT
Hate to beat the proverbial dead horse, but Carver took another low blow in Legacy... "Father made the same mistake twice", he said, when referring to him not wanting magic children... Now, on one hand, you can take this as Carver merely saying that the mistake is that his two sisters turned out to be mages. However, the other way one could perceive this statement would be quite upsetting too - calling the birth of his two siblings, one of whom was dead, a mistake. The funny thing is, I did this conversation all over again and picked the special dialogue option of asking him to explain why he joined the Templar, and he felt more sympathetic at that point, sincerely and openly expressing his insecurity to Hawke for the first time, and how he wanted to follow his own destiny. The problem with this conversation was that it was way OOC for my Maximus Hawke. The way Carver worded the whole "You and Bethany are a mistake" statement, there was no way Max would've calmly asked Carver such a question - regardless of what Carver actually meant. In other words, meta-wise, I know he didn't meant it that way, but in-game, it was so easy to take it in a very, very wrong way, especially with how much tension the two siblings already had. And so, Max went with the aggressive "Shut it" option, not to mention being very emotionally hurt by the statement. If you think Carver has self-esteem issues, you don't know half of what Maximus goes through, especially after her mother's death.
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Post by mike3207 on May 13, 2017 5:35:03 GMT
Bethany by far-even though I never spend much time with her playing as mage characters. I'll have to do a rogue/warrior one of these days to get the full Bethany expererience.
Is Carver even really a choice?
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