cespar
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Post by cespar on Aug 8, 2016 20:03:44 GMT
Cole deserve a thread just like the others. Here a thread where we can talk about the friend that always helped from the background. Never did Cole care about people remembering him. He only cared about what he could do to help them. Discuss away about our best friend.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 20:30:37 GMT
COLE!
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 8, 2016 21:55:21 GMT
Cole in Inquisition was different from the Cole we met in Asunder, but in a good way, I think.
He seemed to have matured a lot. I wonder if that happens to spirits when they come to our world. In Fade everything is stagnant and time stands still. It reflects our world but isn't changed by it. In Asunder Cole was probably more like the real Cole (scared and lonely), but once he realizes what he really is he starts to change. In Inquisition he's more like himself - a spirit of compassion - helping people. In Asunder he also 'helped' people by killing them, but truly he was only doing it to stay alive himself. He didn't seem to need that anymore in Inquisition (maybe he never needed it and only did it because he was scared and wanted to feel like he belonged to this world, and killing made him more real, instead of more like a spirit).
What does everyone think is the better choice for Cole? More spirit or more human?
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 8, 2016 22:31:49 GMT
Well, I prefer the human route, but I know that will get shouted down.
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Post by Sah291 on Aug 8, 2016 22:48:19 GMT
Yay a Cole thread. Well, I thought what would be best for Cole would be for him to follow the path he wanted, and to me that seemed like the human route, so that he could better understand the people he wanted to be able to help. But that's totally subjective, and he seems just as happy (if not happier) as a spirit.
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Post by Jisandra on Aug 8, 2016 23:46:06 GMT
I simply love Cole. He is my second favorite companion. I always bring him everywhere with me and I somehow made him unstoppable, immortal machine of destruction on my nightmare run (Kitty collar is a life)
I prefer making him a spirit because that what he is and reminding him of his nature, form me, is the right thing to do (let's forget abut this whole speculation that elves originated as spirits becoming flesh). He understands people very well as a spirit and with his Compassion's powers he can really help them. I just adore the selflessness of spirit!Cole But I think we must thank Weekes that he made both paths a neutral choice.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 9, 2016 0:22:59 GMT
There is something about the way he rocks back and forth while sitting and listening that makes me wonder if he's been modelled after people with autism. Combined with his blunt honesty, his single minded concern about not hurting people and his almost innocent views of right and wrong, I can't help but ask. If so, he's a very endearing representation that makes me want to hug him at times (though I'd be cautious about crossing that boundary with an actual person with that diagnosis)
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Post by drosophila on Aug 9, 2016 1:10:21 GMT
Weekes said he wrote Cole with the neuroatypical people he knew in mind. So yes, his character is partially based on neuroatypical people.
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Post by cespar on Aug 9, 2016 3:52:43 GMT
Cole in Inquisition was different from the Cole we met in Asunder, but in a good way, I think. He seemed to have matured a lot. I wonder if that happens to spirits when they come to our world. In Fade everything is stagnant and time stands still. It reflects our world but isn't changed by it. In Asunder Cole was probably more like the real Cole (scared and lonely), but once he realizes what he really is he starts to change. In Inquisition he's more like himself - a spirit of compassion - helping people. In Asunder he also 'helped' people by killing them, but truly he was only doing it to stay alive himself. He didn't seem to need that anymore in Inquisition (maybe he never needed it and only did it because he was scared and wanted to feel like he belonged to this world, and killing made him more real, instead of more like a spirit). What does everyone think is the better choice for Cole? More spirit or more human? I agreed. By the time of Inquisition, he has learned more of the world. He knows exactly what he wants to do and won't stop at any cause. My Cadash believed that Cole could do more as a human than a spirit. He could actually become something more powerful, and the connections he can make with people, if they don't forget him. Cole is my favorite character in the series, so as a player, I believe he wanted to be more human based off of Asunder. He wanted to be real. Cole believed killing people would make him stay alive, but I think he killed people because it made him seem more real. Like he was actually helping these people by killing them. Besides, as a human, Cole seems more happy, imo.
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Post by phoray on Aug 9, 2016 5:06:17 GMT
Cole in Inquisition was different from the Cole we met in Asunder, but in a good way, I think. He seemed to have matured a lot. I wonder if that happens to spirits when they come to our world. In Fade everything is stagnant and time stands still. It reflects our world but isn't changed by it. In Asunder Cole was probably more like the real Cole (scared and lonely), but once he realizes what he really is he starts to change. In Inquisition he's more like himself - a spirit of compassion - helping people. In Asunder he also 'helped' people by killing them, but truly he was only doing it to stay alive himself. He didn't seem to need that anymore in Inquisition (maybe he never needed it and only did it because he was scared and wanted to feel like he belonged to this world, and killing made him more real, instead of more like a spirit). What does everyone think is the better choice for Cole? More spirit or more human? See, The way I read and understood that whole thing about his killing people... was that, his true self as Compassion was coming out. Those people wanted to die. The reason he felt more real is because he was actually acting on his spirit urges. The reason he felt so unreal otherwise is that he interacted and helped no one for huge gaps of time. From the perspective of us non Fade beings, death is scary and to be avoided and murder is to be punished. What I saw/read was misunderstood euthanasia. If only Cole understood humans more, he could have explained the difference to Rhys. It still hurts my heart that Rhys left Cole believing him a very confused demon and never got it cleared up; even in Inquisition at the War Table. In Inquistion, I can embrace Cole and show him that he can help people in ways other than euthanasia. The first time I played, I made him more human; I was listening to Varric very strongly. The second time, I thought about it more, tried to really listen to what Solas was saying... and made him more spirit. I realized it was selfish of us mortals to try to make something we don't understand (spirits) into something we do understand (a tangible mortal thing.) I regret the more spirit direction whole heartedly; it was like the Cole we'd gotten to know in the book and in game was erased. Cole died and I helped it happen.
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Post by davesin on Aug 9, 2016 7:07:44 GMT
Cole? Who is Cole? The Inquisition knows no one of that name.
...just kidding.
Cole is alright. He has some of the best party banter in the series. I would really like to have him in Origins and DA2 to have even greater insight into other companions. I prefer to have him on more human route. The spirit Cole seems a bit... like a robot who is just doing his job. Human Cole makes more mistakes and has to work harder to make things right.
Plus, he gets laid when he's a human.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 9, 2016 14:29:14 GMT
The first few runs I always kept Cole as a spirit because I was heavily influenced by Solas and did feel that what right did I have to say that his existence as a spirit wasn't equally valid to that of a human. However, I did find it more disturbing at the end when he was becoming wholly spirit, having forgotten the real Cole, and in the café scene where it seemed he was being intrusive into people's thoughts over very trivial things that didn't really warrant his compassion. Also sometimes people do need to remember things in order to achieve emotional growth.
So then the next run I went with the more human route and actually rather liked that outcome, particularly in Trespasser. The idea of Cole and Maryden travelling around Thedas bringing a bit of joy and comfort into people's lives was really sweet. The only problem with that would be if Solas should succeed in his plans. I also feel that I am may be still being too influenced by my human prejudices in preferring this route. Just because I find the wholly spirit Cole a bit creepy doesn't make his right to exist any less valid.
To be honest I find it rather disturbing to know that any spirit can just read your thoughts whether you want them to or not. There were times when I found his revelations about companions embarrassing because it wasn't something you should just blurt out without their agreement beforehand. Yes, it gave you insights into characters that you otherwise wouldn't get but really that is the whole point. I think it was a rather odd way of allowing us to gain extra insight, when it wasn't guaranteed you would even get the conversation and the companion hadn't actually revealed these personal details about them by choice. I loved Cole as a character but there were times when his monologues made me cringe.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 9, 2016 17:38:32 GMT
Weekes said he wrote Cole with the neuroatypical people he knew in mind. So yes, his character is partially based on neuroatypical people. Thanks, it could not have been a coincidence that Cole has so many traits. I'm still unsettled about the choice of tipping Cole towards Spirit or Human. Neither one is something I'm entirely on board with. But both have aspects I like. On one hand, I liked seeing that the Spirit path left him feeling free and accepted for his nature. He was helping a lot more people and I was reminded of the way Zen masters find inner peace through letting go of emotional baggage. The real Cole was not Compassion. Compassion was taking up a fight that was not his personally. The downside was that it was troubling to see him erase his memories, and with it, the experience and the lessons. I don't think he necessarily needed the pain, just the selective information to understand the nuance of a complicated situation. The Human path, sends a lot of mixed signals to me. I like that Varric was adamant on teaching Cole that vengeful killing is not the best response to default to. Varric is right though; you don't just shrug off being killed or hurt like that. Not if you're human. But Cole is not human. Nor do I believe human is the state everyone should aspire to. Problem is, Cole was emphatic that he never slip back into that state where he hurt people without realizing it. Cole was terrified of losing himself again so I nudged him towards human so that he could retain comprehension of the context in situations. It saddens me a little that he's more inwardly focused on personal struggles compared to how he started off hearing other's needs, but he's still helping so he's not entirely lost what he was. Bleh, it's a hard decision all around and I'm still not certain what is the right one. Good writing, I think it is.
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Post by MrGDL87 on Aug 9, 2016 18:57:45 GMT
I like Cole as a character and his personal quest is one of the best quests in the game. The scene with the Templar was amazing . The whole scene was brilliant and I love how dramatic Cole is when delivered his lines. Cole is a unique and intriguing character and he shows how spirits react when they cross the veil into the world of the living. How you resolve his personal quest also has an interesting element because you can encourage to be 'himself' or encourage him to adapt to his new environment. The interaction between Cole, Varric and Solas were all brilliant in this scene and the options to choose Cole's future was more impactful because of the other character's reflection on how to resolve the situation. Personally, I prefer to make Cole more spirit and the theme of forgiveness/encouraging him to keep his spirited nature was a powerful scene. I also remember that the background music was perfect as well because it was so dramatic. I prefer to go the spirit route with Cole because you are accepting Cole for what he is when first crossing the veil. The Inquisitor is accepting Cole's helpful side alongside his quirky eccentricities. Another element that I like about the spirit route is the amulet prevents any possession in the future so he's in essence a pure spirit that cannot be corrupted. The only negative for spirit Cole is the final scene where he's disconnected because the spirit is leaving Cole behind. It's as though you've given the world hope in the sense that compassion is still hanging around but it's come at the expense of human Cole. I think the choice is hard one because it's not a clear cut decision and it's a testament to how good writing is. If my ramblings didn't make any sense... FORGET!!! Did that work?
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Post by opuspace on Aug 10, 2016 0:44:00 GMT
. Personally, I prefer to make Cole more spirit and the theme of forgiveness/encouraging him to keep his spirited nature was a powerful scene. I also remember that the background music was perfect as well because it was so dramatic. I prefer to go the spirit route with Cole because you are accepting Cole for what he is when first crossing the veil. The Inquisitor is accepting Cole's helpful side alongside his quirky eccentricities. The only negative for spirit Cole is the final scene where he's disconnected because the spirit is leaving Cole behind. It's as though you've given the world hope in the sense that compassion is still hanging around but it's come at the expense of human Cole. I think the choice is hard one because it's not a clear cut decision and it's a testament to how good writing is. If my ramblings didn't make any sense... FORGET!!! Did that work? I agree, I reeeeally like how much gentler, how much kinder Cole gets if he's spirit. It was a moment of disassociation to have the Inquisitor walk away shaking their head when Cole lets go of the human Cole's memories and I wish there was a choice there in how to react. Your last sentence is just great!
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Post by fraggle on Aug 10, 2016 8:57:54 GMT
I love Cole ever since I read Asunder. When he was revealed as companion I was beyond joy, I was ecstatic Wasn't disappointed, Cole still is probably my favourite companion, and I took him with me on every run so far. I love his banter and insights. Like MrGDL, I loved his companion quest, it was one of the best scenes in the game. Cole's VA also brought so much to the table, he made him so alive and fragile, I really adore his work for Cole. As for the choice... In 3 of my 4 runs I made him human. I made him human the very first time and I actually cried when I had his meetup scene in Val Royeaux, it was so touching. And I had sided with Varric because I like Varric more than Solas But in my last run my Inquisitor embraced what Solas said about spirits, and trusted it was the right choice to make Cole a spirit. I never thought I would change my mind so quickly, but it's just what he is... I will switch up in the future and make the choice depending on which Inquisitor I roll, but yep, Cole to me should be a spirit. Even though it is really a very tough choice. Some very good writing here
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 17:07:10 GMT
Zemgus I chose the Spirit path. I felt Cole was happier being accepted for who he was and not changed into what others thought would be better for him or for them. I spent a great deal of time staring at my computer screen the first time I was given the choice, but knew that keeping him true to himself was what he wanted. I would also like to point out the scene that discourages others from the Spirit path. Don't worry! You did not kill Cole or his emotions. He may have forgotten the real Cole in that one moment but when the battle ended he was trying to make my Inquisitor laugh, and in Trespasser he was so happy when he found out the truth of the Veil and finally realized he was not something wrong and when it ended, he promised to return if needed. I see it this way: If you make Cole more human you are creating a new Cole based on the one who died. If you make Cole more spirit you are restoring Compassion and meeting it for the first time. Neither are right or wrong. It's what you think is best.
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Post by cespar on Aug 12, 2016 17:19:09 GMT
What companion do you like/love banter with Cole?
I'll have to say my favorite companion with Cole is Cassandra. I like how they actually going from a weird relationship to seeing each other more like big sister and little brother. They're are my favorite companions, so it was nice to actually see them like each other. I didn't think it would happen, because of Cassandra past.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 17:28:43 GMT
I can't help but enjoy Sera and Cole's banter, especially in Trespasser. They remind me of 2 siblings who can't stop misbehaving and when she stops calling him "it" his reaction is too cute!
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Post by opuspace on Aug 12, 2016 19:25:44 GMT
I can't help but enjoy Sera and Cole's banter, especially in Trespasser. They remind me of 2 siblings who can't stop misbehaving and when she stops calling him "it" his reaction is too cute! Man, it was hard to listen to how Sera treated him though. I know Cole is not human and he never seemed hurt by Sera's remarks, but damn, she was harsh. It did get funnier when she bombards her mind with lewd images every time Cole tries to listen to her thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:29:27 GMT
I can't help but enjoy Sera and Cole's banter, especially in Trespasser. They remind me of 2 siblings who can't stop misbehaving and when she stops calling him "it" his reaction is too cute! Man, it was hard to listen to how Sera treated him though. I know Cole is not human and he never seemed hurt by Sera's remarks, but damn, she was harsh. It did get funnier when she bombards her mind with lewd images every time Cole tries to listen to her thoughts. Siblings are like that in so many cases and both are 20 years old roughly. I knew Cole did not mind her either and I swear sometimes he provoked her. If it affected him I would have told them to stop because the option would have been presented if that were the case, same as when you can tell Cole to leave Solas alone or be humiliated at him for revealing your fun times with Bull (and Solas joins in on that one) lol He does surprise her in Trespasser and I laughed out loud at that lol also I think he knows she is trying to be horrible so he will go away and this fuels his need to hep more.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 12, 2016 19:41:09 GMT
Man, it was hard to listen to how Sera treated him though. I know Cole is not human and he never seemed hurt by Sera's remarks, but damn, she was harsh. It did get funnier when she bombards her mind with lewd images every time Cole tries to listen to her thoughts. Siblings are like that in so many cases and both are 20 years old roughly. I knew Cole did not mind her either and I swear sometimes he provoked her. If it affected him I would have told them to stop because the option would have been presented if that were the case, same as when you can tell Cole to leave Solas alone or be humiliated at him for revealing your fun times with Bull (and Solas joins in on that one) lol He does surprise her in Trespasser and I laughed out loud at that lol also I think he knows she is trying to be horrible so he will go away and this fuels his need to hep more. I never been around siblings that venomous to my knowledge, though I know relationships like that exist. Mum usually praised my brothers for not selling each other out even though she was ticked off that no one would fess up as to who ate that entire pound of sugar. I'm glad that the banter was not meant to be taken seriously, and that people are paying attention to whether Cole or Sera were actually being hurt by each other. If Cole is picking on Sera, I can't help him if she stuffs a pie in his mouth to shut him up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:44:23 GMT
A friend of mine has told me stories. It's pretty venomous for them.
Haha! Yeah it seems Cole is trying to "shake loose" the pain as he tells the Inquisitor. She's strong though and will not bend. That's why he's so happy when she calls him a person. She let a bit of her real feelings show through her facade. I don't think she hates him. He is a spirit from the Fade and that's what scares her (the Fade), but she starts to warm up to him and it makes her more nervous.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 12, 2016 19:57:36 GMT
A friend of mine has told me stories. It's pretty venomous for them. Haha! Yeah it seems Cole is trying to "shake loose" the pain as he tells the Inquisitor. She's strong though and will not bend. That's why he's so happy when she calls him a person. She let a bit of her real feelings show through her facade. I don't think she hates him. He is a spirit from the Fade and that's what scares her (the Fade), but she starts to warm up to him and it makes her more nervous. I wonder, would you be creeped out by Cole saying a lot of personal stuff about your life? Probably opening Pandora's box with this, but it's hard not to get curious on what he'd hear. Cole is probably used to a lot of people trying to cover his mouth with their hands!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 19:59:14 GMT
It would be awkward that's for sure lol but I think Cole decided to make Sera his main goal the way he pursues her in the banter. Solas is pretty determined too.
I relate a lot to Cole myself though so having him around would be nice actually.
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