inherit
1556
0
1,079
Duke Cameron
1,052
Sept 13, 2016 0:28:35 GMT
September 2016
animalboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Duke Cameron on Feb 6, 2017 2:57:00 GMT
Never
|
|
inherit
Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
|
Post by vertigomez on Feb 6, 2017 13:32:17 GMT
I have. I play dwarves a lot, and my Broscas are strong believers in second chances while my Aeducans are more practical and don't want to waste a good general.
From a meta perspective, I like Loghain siring Morrigan's baby and sacrificing himself in DAI.
|
|
oyabun
N3
Posts: 374 Likes: 214
inherit
1613
0
Aug 15, 2018 12:36:15 GMT
214
oyabun
374
Sept 17, 2016 22:36:29 GMT
September 2016
oyabun
|
Post by oyabun on Feb 7, 2017 5:50:31 GMT
The Archdemon's cookie. I don't need him at all in DAI there is Stroud's cookie for the Nightmare demon. Different monster different cookie.
|
|
secretrare
N2
Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 240 Likes: 212
inherit
1602
0
Jul 16, 2018 12:17:31 GMT
212
secretrare
240
Sept 16, 2016 9:42:12 GMT
September 2016
secretrare
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by secretrare on Feb 7, 2017 5:56:07 GMT
Always,A GW should never waste resources,especially if they are AD killers,thanks to him I eliminated Urthemiel.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 7, 2017 7:42:56 GMT
Taking Loghain to Return to Ostagar was very interesting with insight into why he went against Cailain. I don't think the thing with Celene was why he left Cailan to die. When the party finds the letters, he seems to have been caught completely off guard, which you wouldn't expect to have happened if he killed Cailan over it. Although if you meant the conversation with Wynne where he says that he couldn't save Cailan, that does lend some insight. On-Topic: There really should have been an option for "varies from playthrough to playthrough."
|
|
Beregond5
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 692 Likes: 2,170
inherit
759
0
Sept 11, 2017 8:46:19 GMT
2,170
Beregond5
692
August 2016
beregond5
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Beregond5 on Feb 7, 2017 10:15:49 GMT
Nope, he never survived in any of my playthroughs, though I did start a couple of games with the intention to spare him. I know his background now and he's more sympathetic in my eyes than when I dealt with him the first time around, but it's still not enough for me. That, and I like Alistair too much - I can't bring myself to do what he'll consider betrayal.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 24, 2024 16:06:43 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Feb 7, 2017 10:45:14 GMT
Nope, he never survived in any of my playthroughs, though I did start a couple of games with the intention to spare him. I know his background now and he's more sympathetic in my eyes than when I dealt with him the first time around, but it's still not enough for me. That, and I like Alistair too much - I can't bring myself to do what he'll consider betrayal. Think of it, so that Alistair's own decision to desert. It may help.
|
|
Beregond5
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 692 Likes: 2,170
inherit
759
0
Sept 11, 2017 8:46:19 GMT
2,170
Beregond5
692
August 2016
beregond5
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Beregond5 on Feb 7, 2017 10:48:47 GMT
Nope, he never survived in any of my playthroughs, though I did start a couple of games with the intention to spare him. I know his background now and he's more sympathetic in my eyes than when I dealt with him the first time around, but it's still not enough for me. That, and I like Alistair too much - I can't bring myself to do what he'll consider betrayal. Think of it, so that Alistair's own decision to desert. It may help. Mm, that could work. I'll try it next time.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 24, 2024 16:06:43 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Feb 7, 2017 10:54:21 GMT
Think of it, so that Alistair's own decision to desert. It may help. Mm, that could work. I'll try it next time. This really can working (I had two saves in my game after I decide, that Aedan will marry with Anora, and I choosed the Loghain version), I finally was angry on Alistair: why he betray me? (All a matter of perspective... Zevran accepted the decision, don't betrayed Aedan, despite he was the real losing.)
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 7, 2017 13:15:46 GMT
I don't think the thing with Celene was why he left Cailan to die. When the party finds the letters, he seems to have been caught completely off guard, which you wouldn't expect to have happened if he killed Cailan over it. Although if you meant the conversation with Wynne where he says that he couldn't save Cailan, that does lend some insight. On-Topic: There really should have been an option for "varies from playthrough to playthrough." No, I don't think either. But is shows another reason why Loghain didn't seem to respect Cailan as a leader much. There were many factors and information. I didn't think Loghain was surprised by Celene's letter, annoyed yes. Did he know? My thinking even though it wasn't in game, Logahin knew about Celene's contact, Cailan doesn't seem the type to keep his own counsel.
But he doesn't say anything to the effect of "I knew it" and his strong reaction seems like something you'd expect from someone who's just learning something for the first time. If he'd already known Cailan was a cheating bastard, you'd expect an eyeroll, not a "That cheating bastard!"
|
|
Daft Arbiter
N3
Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
Origin: dasriboflavin
Posts: 275 Likes: 325
inherit
815
0
Mar 14, 2019 21:55:38 GMT
325
Daft Arbiter
Wealth beyond measure, Outlander.
275
August 2016
daftarbiter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR
dasriboflavin
|
Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 7, 2017 15:33:40 GMT
No.
I prefer to make Alistair the king, so I have Alistair fight Loghain as a way to prove that he's qualified. Since this also means that he decapitates Loghain once he wins, we don't get Warden Loghain.
|
|
Pokemario
N3
First of the Dalish
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Pokemario
Posts: 311 Likes: 540
inherit
First of the Dalish
1187
0
540
Pokemario
311
August 2016
pokemario
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pokemario
|
Post by Pokemario on Feb 7, 2017 18:39:48 GMT
I would have, if it didn't cost me Alistair...
EDIT: So, I decided to spare Loghain and I'm so glad I did.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
197
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:20:45 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:20:45 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:42:38 GMT
Mm, that could work. I'll try it next time. This really can working (I had two saves in my game after I decide, that Aedan will marry with Anora, and I choosed the Loghain version), I finally was angry on Alistair: why he betray me? (All a matter of perspective... Zevran accepted the decision, don't betrayed Aedan, despite he was the real losing.)
My Warden thought, "OH FUCK IT. GO FUCK YOURSELF ALISTAIR IF YOU CAN'T GET MARRIED TO ANORA!" and that was the end of that... as Alistair became a drunk...
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 22, 2017 17:25:40 GMT
Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on?
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 24, 2024 16:06:43 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Feb 22, 2017 17:48:08 GMT
Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on? Not necessarily, I can say, who never killed Zevran, and rarely (once) recruited Loghain. Let's see: Loghain was Zevran's instigator of the assassination, but in fact, the Warden most no trust him in this moment. To kill Zevran not necessarily is a judgment, may simply a kind of self-defense. When the Landsmeet ended, and Loghain lost his political power, and performed the rite of joining, he's not a threat anymore. So: a Warden, who kill Zevran only because consider him dangerous, not because he is an assassin, can recruit Loghain without that s/he would be hypocritical. (My opinion.)
|
|
inherit
2703
0
2,011
Lazarillo
1,025
January 2017
lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
|
Post by Lazarillo on Feb 23, 2017 0:07:09 GMT
Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on? Does the Warden actually find out who sent Zevran and why if he dies during the initial encounter? If not, then there's not a whole lot of reason to just treat Zevran any differently from the hundred or so other bandits and random thugs who start fights with you and who you don't have an option to spare. A little different from an opposition military leader. But if there's some in character knowledge that Zevran is Loghain's agent (the player knows, granted, but I don't think the Warden does unless Zevran tells them...butI've never killed Zevran and never will, so I don't know if it's different that way), then choosing to kill him because he's working for Loghain and then sparing Loghain anyway is probably a little hypocritical, yeah.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 0:59:26 GMT
Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on? Does the Warden actually find out who sent Zevran and why if he dies during the initial encounter? If not, then there's not a whole lot of reason to just treat Zevran any differently from the hundred or so other bandits and random thugs who start fights with you and who you don't have an option to spare. A little different from an opposition military leader. But if there's some in character knowledge that Zevran is Loghain's agent (the player knows, granted, but I don't think the Warden does unless Zevran tells them...butI've never killed Zevran and never will, so I don't know if it's different that way), then choosing to kill him because he's working for Loghain and then sparing Loghain anyway is probably a little hypocritical, yeah. The conversation clarifies that it was a service performed without personal loyalty to Loghain, so it wasn't much of a factor. My Warden killed him for two reasons: 1. This is an enemy. And not one that wishes to atone or has been deceived like the men in Lothering's tavern. 2. Zevran says he doesn't know why Loghain wants them dead. That pissed off my self-righteous character as he thinks it's even worse to kill someone without even caring why.
|
|
inherit
2703
0
2,011
Lazarillo
1,025
January 2017
lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
|
Post by Lazarillo on Feb 23, 2017 1:14:40 GMT
The conversation clarifies that it was a service performed without personal loyalty to Loghain, so it wasn't much of a factor. My Warden killed him for two reasons: 1. This is an enemy. And not one that wishes to atone or has been deceived like the men in Lothering's tavern. 2. Zevran says he doesn't know why Loghain wants them dead. That pissed off my self-righteous character as he thinks it's even worse to kill someone without even caring why. Ah, yeah, I assumed you meant killing Zevran before even waking him up. I guess what I was getting at is that if you'd kill someone simply for the crime of working for Loghain, then it would be hypocritical not to kill Loghain himself. But yeah, if you're killing him because he's a thug, then there's still a difference and sparing Loghain isn't necessarily out of character.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 24, 2024 16:06:43 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2017 1:21:24 GMT
The conversation clarifies that it was a service performed without personal loyalty to Loghain, so it wasn't much of a factor. My Warden killed him for two reasons: 1. This is an enemy. And not one that wishes to atone or has been deceived like the men in Lothering's tavern. 2. Zevran says he doesn't know why Loghain wants them dead. That pissed off my self-righteous character as he thinks it's even worse to kill someone without even caring why. Ah, yeah, I assumed you meant killing Zevran before even waking him up. I guess what I was getting at is that if you'd kill someone simply for the crime of working for Loghain, then it would be hypocritical not to kill Loghain himself. But yeah, if you're killing him because he's a thug, then there's still a difference and sparing Loghain isn't necessarily out of character. Yes, I can agree: the Warden can consider Loghain useful, and the Joining just a deferred death sentence. My reason: Loghain's life was "wedding gift" to Anora (better than a a jewelry).
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 23, 2017 4:42:54 GMT
Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on? It depends on the rationale. If the rationale is that Zevran might decide to slit your throat in the night, then it'd be a bit inconsistent to recruit Loghain, because as irrational as it would be to do so there's nothing really stopping Loghain from doing it. But you came up with a rationale for killing Zevran and not Loghain that seems to hold water, and there's got to be others. Edit: If you're playing a Cousland, for instance, you could figure you have Loghain to thank for the fact that you weren't born during the Occupation, and figure that while he still deserves punishment he doesn't deserve death?
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 12:28:19 GMT
The conversation clarifies that it was a service performed without personal loyalty to Loghain, so it wasn't much of a factor. My Warden killed him for two reasons: 1. This is an enemy. And not one that wishes to atone or has been deceived like the men in Lothering's tavern. 2. Zevran says he doesn't know why Loghain wants them dead. That pissed off my self-righteous character as he thinks it's even worse to kill someone without even caring why. Ah, yeah, I assumed you meant killing Zevran before even waking him up. I guess what I was getting at is that if you'd kill someone simply for the crime of working for Loghain, then it would be hypocritical not to kill Loghain himself. But yeah, if you're killing him because he's a thug, then there's still a difference and sparing Loghain isn't necessarily out of character. As a general rule, my Warden doesn't kill Loghain's subordinates. It's been that way since he learned that Loghain has been spreading lies about the grey wardens. He has a strong sense of justice and wouldn't kill those who are being deceived. In other words, the two guys in Lothering's tavern, the group at Orzammar's gates and Cauthrien are all spared. Do you guys think it would be hypocritical to kill Zevran and recruit Loghan later on? It depends on the rationale. If the rationale is that Zevran might decide to slit your throat in the night, then it'd be a bit inconsistent to recruit Loghain, because as irrational as it would be to do so there's nothing really stopping Loghain from doing it. But you came up with a rationale for killing Zevran and not Loghain that seems to hold water, and there's got to be others. Edit: If you're playing a Cousland, for instance, you could figure you have Loghain to thank for the fact that you weren't born during the Occupation, and figure that while he still deserves punishment he doesn't deserve death? Would you consider Riordan's argument good enough? He says that Loghain has no choice but to be loyal because being a grey warden is a permanent bond through the taint.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 23, 2017 18:20:19 GMT
It depends on the rationale. If the rationale is that Zevran might decide to slit your throat in the night, then it'd be a bit inconsistent to recruit Loghain, because as irrational as it would be to do so there's nothing really stopping Loghain from doing it. But you came up with a rationale for killing Zevran and not Loghain that seems to hold water, and there's got to be others. Edit: If you're playing a Cousland, for instance, you could figure you have Loghain to thank for the fact that you weren't born during the Occupation, and figure that while he still deserves punishment he doesn't deserve death? Would you consider Riordan's argument good enough? He says that Loghain has no choice but to be loyal because being a grey warden is a permanent bond through the taint. I don't remember Riordan saying anything that actually precludes betrayal from Loghain. All I can remember that is that he says "what does loyalty matter? We are what we are", and that the darkspawn taint binds Wardens to fight darkspawn and that even Wardens who desert wind up fighting them to the death. I don't think either of those, or even the sum of them, actually stops Loghain from slitting the Warden's throat in the night. He doesn't, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that as far as I can tell it's entirely reasonable for the Warden not to trust him not to.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 18:40:13 GMT
Would you consider Riordan's argument good enough? He says that Loghain has no choice but to be loyal because being a grey warden is a permanent bond through the taint. I don't remember Riordan saying anything that actually precludes betrayal from Loghain. All I can remember that is that he says "what does loyalty matter? We are what we are", and that the darkspawn taint binds Wardens to fight darkspawn and that even Wardens who desert wind up fighting them to the death. I don't think either of those, or even the sum of them, actually stops Loghain from slitting the Warden's throat in the night. He doesn't, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that as far as I can tell it's entirely reasonable for the Warden not to trust him not to. Do you have any suggestions for how to justify it? Perhaps one could argue that the balance between cost and benefit is different between recruiting Zevran and Loghain.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 23, 2017 19:26:07 GMT
I don't remember Riordan saying anything that actually precludes betrayal from Loghain. All I can remember that is that he says "what does loyalty matter? We are what we are", and that the darkspawn taint binds Wardens to fight darkspawn and that even Wardens who desert wind up fighting them to the death. I don't think either of those, or even the sum of them, actually stops Loghain from slitting the Warden's throat in the night. He doesn't, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that as far as I can tell it's entirely reasonable for the Warden not to trust him not to. Do you have any suggestions for how to justify it? Perhaps one could argue that the balance between cost and benefit is different between recruiting Zevran and Loghain. I think one could argue that Zevran might be able to undo his loss to the Warden if he kills the Warden in his sleep, or might believe he can, whereas Loghain's never getting back to where he was. (Zevran argues that he can't as a point in favor of recruiting him, but we have only his word he can't, and when Taliesin argues later that he can Zevran doesn't question his word whether or not he takes the offer.) Though that depends on thinking Loghain is going to act rationally, and a Warden who hasn't put a lot of effort into seeing things the way a sane Loghain would can be forgiven for thinking Loghain's lost his mind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
836
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:20:46 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 24, 2024 17:20:46 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 11:34:18 GMT
I spare him 90% of the times.
I quite like the guy and I find his sacrifice against the Archdemon quite fitting.
|
|