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Dreadnaw Rising
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Jan 13, 2017 21:36:24 GMT
I'm a huge Human/Female/Mage gal and I romanced Cullen in my first game. I absolutely love everything about that romance, however, I feel like I kind of missed out on something epic by not rolling elf and going for Solas my first playthrough. Part of the problem, I think, is that I got spoiled on what his romance was like after I finished my Cullen-mance so I guess I didn't get that whopping surprise and devestation that everyone else got. I've tried rolling an elf and romancing Solas but I just never got into it and quit part-way through. I love Solas and love what they did with his character but I just feel miffed that I'm missing that deep visceral connection that other folks seem to have with him. Maybe I just need to play all the way through to the end but since I know all the spoilers, I feel like I don't know what that will do for me. Meh. Sounds like me! A big hurdle for me is that my Dragon Age Soul is not Dalish. I thought they were okay, but I didn't get what BEING Dalish meant. And DAI has a lot of religion stuff in general, but there are a lot of unsettling things you learn as an elf. How does your character really feel about that new knowledge? You could go the usual route of sadness and a feeling of loss but you could also feel anger at your own people. Or you could go resolute; an option I personally like. Anyways. My point is that, one of the big things you get with Solas is the optional removal of Vallaslin. Playing a character that you feel meh about and don't know how they'd feel about this knowledge can lead to the whole thing just being flat. Like, I dunno if I want the tattoo off. Do I want it off because I'm anti slavery? Because I'm mad at what we got wrong? What led me to put that tattoo on my face in the first place? Just following tradition or was a sense of pride, a love of my people, that guided me when I was younger? Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all.
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N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Elsariel on Jan 13, 2017 21:49:21 GMT
I'm a huge Human/Female/Mage gal and I romanced Cullen in my first game. I absolutely love everything about that romance, however, I feel like I kind of missed out on something epic by not rolling elf and going for Solas my first playthrough. Part of the problem, I think, is that I got spoiled on what his romance was like after I finished my Cullen-mance so I guess I didn't get that whopping surprise and devestation that everyone else got. I've tried rolling an elf and romancing Solas but I just never got into it and quit part-way through. I love Solas and love what they did with his character but I just feel miffed that I'm missing that deep visceral connection that other folks seem to have with him. Maybe I just need to play all the way through to the end but since I know all the spoilers, I feel like I don't know what that will do for me. Meh. Sounds like me! A big hurdle for me is that my Dragon Age Soul is not Dalish. I thought they were okay, but I didn't get what BEING Dalish meant. And DAI has a lot of religion stuff in general, but there are a lot of unsettling things you learn as an elf. How does your character really feel about that new knowledge? You could go the usual route of sadness and a feeling of loss but you could also feel anger at your own people. Or you could go resolute; an option I personally like. Anyways. My point is that, one of the big things you get with Solas is the optional removal of Vallaslin. Playing a character that you feel meh about and don't know how they'd feel about this knowledge can lead to the whole thing just being flat. Like, I dunno if I want the tattoo off. Do I want it off because I'm anti slavery? Because I'm mad at what we got wrong? What led me to put that tattoo on my face in the first place? Just following tradition or was a sense of pride, a love of my people, that guided me when I was younger? Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all. You know, that's a really good point. I don't think I've ever really deeply connected with the elves in the DA universe. I've always been, in my DA Soul, a human female mage. All my head cannons revolve around human female mages so that's were I sort of... center myself... when I think and get myself into the universe. I played one elven playthrough in DAO who romanced Zev which was nice, but I played Surana so.... no real connection to anything elvish. That said, I think that's probably the biggest problem with getting into the whole Lavellan/Solas romance. I just never really invested any time into the whole elven culture, background, religion, etc. So the romance seems a bit shallow to me because it lacks a lot of the romantic content that a Cullen romance has. I must be missing all of the subtext.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Jan 13, 2017 22:28:19 GMT
Sounds like me! ]Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all. You know, that's a really good point. I don't think I've ever really deeply connected with the elves in the DA universe. I've always been, in my DA Soul, a human female mage. All my head cannons revolve around human female mages so that's were I sort of... center myself... when I think and get myself into the universe. I played one elven playthrough in DAO who romanced Zev which was nice, but I played Surana so.... no real connection to anything elvish. That said, I think that's probably the biggest problem with getting into the whole Lavellan/Solas romance. I just never really invested any time into the whole elven culture, background, religion, etc. So the romance seems a bit shallow to me because it lacks a lot of the romantic content that a Cullen romance has. I must be missing all of the subtext. I still think Cullen is totally #1 though, romantically for me. Now that I've said all of the above, I realize my planned Solasmance is not about Solas. He's just one more RP opportunity, a huge splash of drama, and a side dish of tragic romance. Another experience to grow my Dalish character. For example, Solas says a drinker of the Well has become a creature/servant of Mythal. My Dalish has the Mythal tattoo and has been a hand a justice for years (I RP tht she's been a hunter of Dalish Criminals). So, when he says that...in my head, she points to the tattoo and says, "I have always been a servant of Mythal." Then he tells her they're slave tattoos. And that's...A complicated feeling she feels. But then he says he can take em off her face and she's like, No way! Whatever they meant then, they have been on my face for 30 years and I have guided my life by Mythal's teachings! It's all really strong emotions for me to play a character like that. But she's been a character I've been planning for a couple of months now and I've been learning about elven lore as elfy elf stuff to help me craft her. I think it was worth it, but not just so I could be in a romance with Solas. It has the most drama to cause character development. Kinda like Blackwall for the same reason. But Without a heavily crafted character I'm attached to, the romance can and HAS fallen flat. I tried him on PT 2 and I didn't have any idea of who I was. In the end, I played no DLCs with her and deleted her.
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Somewhere, out there...
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August 2016
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Post by Artemis on Jan 14, 2017 3:07:28 GMT
[...] The reason, I like Solas, is, because he is basically a nerd and he is so utterly cluesless when it comes to day-to-day stuff (a bit like Sherlock Holmes actually, who knows a few hundred poisons and how to detect them, but does not even know, who's prime minister in Great Britain - that's kind of charming), I don't care much for him being an old elven god in that sense, that it doesn't make him more interesting to me. [...] YASSSSS This this this! I SO love grumpy smartypants-yet-socially-clueless Solas and was faintly disappointed by the "Big Reveal." He doesn't remove your Vallaslin if you don't want to, he tells you its origin and that he can remove it, but the decision is yours and he's fine with whatever you choose. That's why I said it's nice opportunity for RPing a dalish Inquisitor, whether you remove it or not. You don't have the chance to say that you want to keep the Vallaslin and that it means a lot to you otherwise (or to say, take the slave markings off my face asap, please, that is what my canon does ) I really think it's a pitty missing out on that. Agreed I have a Dalish inquisitor who would have proudly lifted his chin and said he was keeping his markings because they meant a lot to HIM and he didn't care about some rubbish old truth about slave markings and... I'm sure at this point Solas would have interrupted him and told him he was fine just as he was and that he respected him for the decision [...] He is more the mentor, explaining things and somehow, I like that kind of relationship much more. I love that in a romance though!! Although for me it only works in a m/m romance which is why m/f solavellan isn't something I feel personally interested in. But a young male Lavellan idolizing his mentor and falling in love with him is cute. A female... it makes me a little uncomfortable. (Old female or male Lavellan could work... again, just talking personal preferences.)
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Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
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CuriousArtemis
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Post by Artemis on Jan 14, 2017 3:10:53 GMT
I'm a huge Human/Female/Mage gal and I romanced Cullen in my first game. I absolutely love everything about that romance, however, I feel like I kind of missed out on something epic by not rolling elf and going for Solas my first playthrough. Part of the problem, I think, is that I got spoiled on what his romance was like after I finished my Cullen-mance so I guess I didn't get that whopping surprise and devestation that everyone else got. I've tried rolling an elf and romancing Solas but I just never got into it and quit part-way through. I love Solas and love what they did with his character but I just feel miffed that I'm missing that deep visceral connection that other folks seem to have with him. Maybe I just need to play all the way through to the end but since I know all the spoilers, I feel like I don't know what that will do for me. Meh. Sounds like me! A big hurdle for me is that my Dragon Age Soul is not Dalish. I thought they were okay, but I didn't get what BEING Dalish meant. And DAI has a lot of religion stuff in general, but there are a lot of unsettling things you learn as an elf. How does your character really feel about that new knowledge? You could go the usual route of sadness and a feeling of loss but you could also feel anger at your own people. Or you could go resolute; an option I personally like. Anyways. My point is that, one of the big things you get with Solas is the optional removal of Vallaslin. Playing a character that you feel meh about and don't know how they'd feel about this knowledge can lead to the whole thing just being flat. Like, I dunno if I want the tattoo off. Do I want it off because I'm anti slavery? Because I'm mad at what we got wrong? What led me to put that tattoo on my face in the first place? Just following tradition or was a sense of pride, a love of my people, that guided me when I was younger? Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all. Agree, this is a good point. I'm a self-professed elf-lover... I ate this Dalish shit up I get SERIOUSLY, EMOTIONALLY invested in my elven characters in a way I don't for any other character, and in any other game. I always choose elf if it's an option.
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Elsariel
N3
Solona Amell
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 586 Likes: 1,235
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2655
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Mar 20, 2018 14:09:34 GMT
1,235
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Solona Amell
586
January 2017
elsariel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Elsariel on Jan 14, 2017 3:20:33 GMT
Sounds like me! A big hurdle for me is that my Dragon Age Soul is not Dalish. I thought they were okay, but I didn't get what BEING Dalish meant. And DAI has a lot of religion stuff in general, but there are a lot of unsettling things you learn as an elf. How does your character really feel about that new knowledge? You could go the usual route of sadness and a feeling of loss but you could also feel anger at your own people. Or you could go resolute; an option I personally like. Anyways. My point is that, one of the big things you get with Solas is the optional removal of Vallaslin. Playing a character that you feel meh about and don't know how they'd feel about this knowledge can lead to the whole thing just being flat. Like, I dunno if I want the tattoo off. Do I want it off because I'm anti slavery? Because I'm mad at what we got wrong? What led me to put that tattoo on my face in the first place? Just following tradition or was a sense of pride, a love of my people, that guided me when I was younger? Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all. Agree, this is a good point. I'm a self-professed elf-lover... I ate this Dalish shit up I get SERIOUSLY, EMOTIONALLY invested in my elven characters in a way I don't for any other character, and in any other game. I always choose elf if it's an option. Strangely enough, I'm actually that way, too. In every game EXCEPT Dragon Age. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I didn't like the way they looked and DAO and just decided "nah...". I'm kinda picky with how I like my elves. They need to be Tolkien-esque.
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Somewhere, out there...
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August 2016
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CuriousArtemis
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Post by Artemis on Jan 14, 2017 3:50:46 GMT
Agree, this is a good point. I'm a self-professed elf-lover... I ate this Dalish shit up I get SERIOUSLY, EMOTIONALLY invested in my elven characters in a way I don't for any other character, and in any other game. I always choose elf if it's an option. Strangely enough, I'm actually that way, too. In every game EXCEPT Dragon Age. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I didn't like the way they looked and DAO and just decided "nah...". I'm kinda picky with how I like my elves. They need to be Tolkien-esque. *cough* Mods Otherwise I wouldn't touch them in Skyrim with a ten foot pole!
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30,187
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Fan from 2003 - 2020
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 14, 2017 4:03:50 GMT
He doesn't remove your Vallaslin if you don't want him to, he tells you its origin and that he can remove it, but the decision is yours and he's fine with whatever you choose. That's why I said it's nice opportunity for RPing a dalish Inquisitor, whether you remove it or not. You don't have the chance to say that you want to keep the Vallaslin and that it means a lot to you otherwise (or to say, take the slave markings off my face asap, please, that is what my canon does ) I really think it's a pitty missing on that. Yeah, it is completely your choice and if you choose one of the options not to, Solas is very supportive:
Inquisitor: "These marks have been a part of me for so long. I don't know if... (...) I know you told me because you wanted to help but the vallaslin is part of who I am. I hope you can see past-" Solas: "Stop. You are perfect exactly as you are."
I like the array of options and emotions you have in that scene and can combine both in the vallaslin portion and in the break-up scene. You be angry, sad, guarded. It's a nice touch that Lavellan reverts to elvish in the anger option. Here are some of the combinations for those curious:
Note: videos are tagged for size.
I hope that the Solas romance scene wasn't the reason we were forced to get the Vallaslin stamped on our face if we play as an Elf.
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Post by Walter Black on Jan 14, 2017 5:24:52 GMT
Yeah, it is completely your choice and if you choose one of the options not to, Solas is very supportive:
Inquisitor: "These marks have been a part of me for so long. I don't know if... (...) I know you told me because you wanted to help but the vallaslin is part of who I am. I hope you can see past-" Solas: "Stop. You are perfect exactly as you are."
I like the array of options and emotions you have in that scene and can combine both in the vallaslin portion and in the break-up scene. You be angry, sad, guarded. It's a nice touch that Lavellan reverts to elvish in the anger option. Here are some of the combinations for those curious:
Note: videos are tagged for size.
I hope that the Solas romance scene wasn't the reason we were forced to get the Vallaslin stamped on our face if we play as an Elf. We all knew before the game came out that the Elven Inquisitor would be Dalish. Dalish Elves receive Vallaslin during their rite of maturity, and the Keeper of Clan Lavellan would only send someone they recognized as an adult to the Conclave.
Pity that the Elven Inquisitor doesn't have the option to touch her face and/or see her reflection in the water if she agrees to remove the Vallaslin .
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Post by opuspace on Jan 14, 2017 7:47:15 GMT
Yeah, it is completely your choice and if you choose one of the options not to, Solas is very supportive:
Inquisitor: "These marks have been a part of me for so long. I don't know if... (...) I know you told me because you wanted to help but the vallaslin is part of who I am. I hope you can see past-" Solas: "Stop. You are perfect exactly as you are."
I like the array of options and emotions you have in that scene and can combine both in the vallaslin portion and in the break-up scene. You be angry, sad, guarded. It's a nice touch that Lavellan reverts to elvish in the anger option. Here are some of the combinations for those curious:
Note: videos are tagged for size.
I hope that the Solas romance scene wasn't the reason we were forced to get the Vallaslin stamped on our face if we play as an Elf. Nah, the vallaslin is simply part of Dalish culture and has nothing to do with the Solas romance. It's like with Andrastianism and the big, hairy eyeball symbolism. Not having the tattooes would be like the Divine refusing to put on the Divine hat. Except more permanent.
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Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
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Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by fylimar on Jan 14, 2017 8:22:01 GMT
Sounds like me! A big hurdle for me is that my Dragon Age Soul is not Dalish. I thought they were okay, but I didn't get what BEING Dalish meant. And DAI has a lot of religion stuff in general, but there are a lot of unsettling things you learn as an elf. How does your character really feel about that new knowledge? You could go the usual route of sadness and a feeling of loss but you could also feel anger at your own people. Or you could go resolute; an option I personally like. Anyways. My point is that, one of the big things you get with Solas is the optional removal of Vallaslin. Playing a character that you feel meh about and don't know how they'd feel about this knowledge can lead to the whole thing just being flat. Like, I dunno if I want the tattoo off. Do I want it off because I'm anti slavery? Because I'm mad at what we got wrong? What led me to put that tattoo on my face in the first place? Just following tradition or was a sense of pride, a love of my people, that guided me when I was younger? Without an elf rooted strongly in what it means to be Dalish for THEM... I can't imagine the Solas romance as being any good at all. Agree, this is a good point. I'm a self-professed elf-lover... I ate this Dalish shit up I get SERIOUSLY, EMOTIONALLY invested in my elven characters in a way I don't for any other character, and in any other game. I always choose elf if it's an option. Me too. Although dwarves are a close second. But I found the history of the elves in DA much more interesting than most of the other races. I usually don't get very invested in human characters (apart from Hawke), so I'm really struggeling to make a good human character ( again, apart from Hawke) - and I have yet to finish one DAO or DAI game with a human. But I have 4 elfs and two dwarves in DAI and I guess more than ten elves and 4 or 5 dwarves in DAO and I love them to pieces.
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Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 16, 2017 2:05:40 GMT
Artemis Somehow, that's worse to me than Jack's friendship being halted without the Magical Sheploo Penis. It's one thing to do that to a friendship arc, but the reveal about the vallasin is a big story reveal. Not just, "Your gods were real people," but "You're from the slave caste." I can't believe that they locked such a lore revelation behind the romance. I can't think of a single reason why Solas couldn't tell a befriended elven IQ the truth. Not one. A female elf would be also clueless if they decided they'd rather go after someone else. The fact the extremely lame and entirely unwhelming final boss brings that up and Solas won't boggles me. As I understand it, Solas didn't actually intend to tell a romanced elven IQ that truth. Solas intended to confess that he was Fen'Harel and that he was behind Corypheus and all that, but couldn't work up the strength needed. But he didn't realize he couldn't bring himself to do it until he'd already set up the mood for a big reveal, so he substituted this part of the truth to avoid her asking inconvenient questions. I think this is meant to be why he doesn't tell a friended IQ, since he didn't intend to tell a romanced IQ this part of the truth and only did it because the romance kinda forced his hand. Another thing I'll point out is that while you are getting a pretty big lore reveal here, the same lore and more is revealed in Trespasser. The romance doesn't so much tell you things you wouldn't otherwise know as give you a sneak peek at stuff you're going to learn later in the same game anyway. I hope that the Solas romance scene wasn't the reason we were forced to get the Vallaslin stamped on our face if we play as an Elf. Nah, the vallaslin is simply part of Dalish culture and has nothing to do with the Solas romance. It's like with Andrastianism and the big, hairy eyeball symbolism. Not having the tattooes would be like the Divine refusing to put on the Divine hat. Except more permanent. More specifically, it's how the Dalish mark you as an adult, and you aren't considered an adult until you've sat through the ritual. Since your character is supposed to have been sent to spy on forces that are supposed to be hostile to the Dalish (the Templars at least tend not to get along with the Dalish since their leaders are technically apostates) it would make no sense to let you play someone who is not considered an adult. It'd be pretty messed up to send someone you consider a child into that (especially if the class you picked means the Templars would want to capture your character as an apostate,) and judging by the letters your Keeper sends you we're apparently supposed to believe your Keeper is a cool person.
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Post by opuspace on Jan 16, 2017 18:34:28 GMT
More specifically, it's how the Dalish mark you as an adult, and you aren't considered an adult until you've sat through the ritual. Since your character is supposed to have been sent to spy on forces that are supposed to be hostile to the Dalish (the Templars at least tend not to get along with the Dalish since their leaders are technically apostates) it would make no sense to let you play someone who is not considered an adult. It'd be pretty messed up to send someone you consider a child into that (especially if the class you picked means the Templars would want to capture your character as an apostate,) and judging by the letters your Keeper sends you we're apparently supposed to believe your Keeper is a cool person. I've read some opinions of others in that they despise the markings because to them it means "Property of..." or that the Dalish are condoning their more flawed aspects of their culture like racism or their shunning of anyone who falls short of what they think it means to be Elvhen. Those flaws are a side effect, not the motive for getting a vallaslin. And frankly, a Symbol can be subverted from its original intent so just because an Inquisitor keeps her vallaslin doesn't mean she's saying, "I love being a slave!". If a swastika can go from a positive symbol to a reviled, corrupted image then a vallaslin can be the reverse, a symbol that the Dalish wearing it are defying those who started it. They're missing the whole point of what the symbolism means to the Dalish individual on a personal level. They're not necessarily having it tattooed on their face because they want to go shoot some shems or lord it over their city cousins. They could do that without the markings. To them, it could mean they valued the teachings of Andruil in staying united or that they wish to be protective like Mythal or that they love the art of crafting like June.
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Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
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CuriousArtemis
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Post by Artemis on Jan 16, 2017 18:53:38 GMT
More specifically, it's how the Dalish mark you as an adult, and you aren't considered an adult until you've sat through the ritual. Since your character is supposed to have been sent to spy on forces that are supposed to be hostile to the Dalish (the Templars at least tend not to get along with the Dalish since their leaders are technically apostates) it would make no sense to let you play someone who is not considered an adult. It'd be pretty messed up to send someone you consider a child into that (especially if the class you picked means the Templars would want to capture your character as an apostate,) and judging by the letters your Keeper sends you we're apparently supposed to believe your Keeper is a cool person. I've read some opinions of others in that they despise the markings because to them it means "Property of..." or that the Dalish are condoning their more flawed aspects of their culture like racism or their shunning of anyone who falls short of what they think it means to be Elvhen. Those flaws are a side effect, not the motive for getting a vallaslin. And frankly, a Symbol can be subverted from its original intent so just because an Inquisitor keeps her vallaslin doesn't mean she's saying, "I love being a slave!". If a swastika can go from a positive symbol to a reviled, corrupted image then a vallaslin can be the reverse, a symbol that the Dalish wearing it are defying those who started it. They're missing the whole point of what the symbolism means to the Dalish individual on a personal level. They're not necessarily having it tattooed on their face because they want to go shoot some shems or lord it over their city cousins. They could do that without the markings. To them, it could mean they valued the teachings of Andruil in staying united or that they wish to be protective like Mythal or that they love the art of crafting like June. Yes, but each Lavellan character can have a variety of responses to what Solas reveals about the vallaslin: 1. It's a slave marking! Yuck, get it off! 2. I don't care what it once meant; it means so much more to me; I'm keeping it. 3. If you think I should get rid of it, then okay, I trust you, Solas... 4. You telling me this pisses me off; I'm keeping this to spite you! And so much more.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:27:05 GMT
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10,745
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 16, 2017 21:32:17 GMT
As well as the vallaslin indicating a particular positive aspect of their culture that they wish to dedicate their life too, it should also be remembered that in the past they were actually forbidden to have them when they were slaves of Tevinter. Obviously if the Magisters knew they were slave markings of someone else, they would not want their own slaves marked like that (although I do wonder how Corypheus knew this information - perhaps he got it from the orb) but even without them knowing the meaning, they didn't want their slaves to have anything of their own culture. Then the Chantry were effectively also forbidding them their vallaslin because they represented their gods.
So the vallaslin are now a badge of honour that go with the declaration that "never again will we submit" and so mean exactly the opposite of what they did under the Evanuris. Solas, of course, who understands so little of the Dalish psyche just sees them as slave markings. I do find it ironic that someone who fought to give the elves their freedom is so disparaging about the one group of elves who value their freedom above everything else, just because they didn't welcome him with open arms when he approached them with his wisdom from the Fade. Felassan is the same. Both of them seem to think that the Dalish only care about the past and think they are "perfect" (Solas' words to a non friendly Lavellan - pot calling the kettle black), when if they just took the time to study and listen more than one bigoted Dalish clan (clan Virnehn has to be the worst example of the Dalish you could possibly have) they would realise how much they had in common. Looking back on what Solas says on the balcony when he is complimenting you, it is really very patronising. You are such a rare and remarkable person, are you sure it wasn't my anchor that changed you because surely the Dalish could not possibly have raised such a beautiful spirit? Have I misjudged them? (Yes, you bloody well have).
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Post by Artemis on Jan 16, 2017 21:59:56 GMT
As well as the vallaslin indicating a particular positive aspect of their culture that they wish to dedicate their life too, it should also be remembered that in the past they were actually forbidden to have them when they were slaves of Tevinter. Obviously if the Magisters knew they were slave markings of someone else, they would not want their own slaves marked like that (although I do wonder how Corypheus knew this information - perhaps he got it from the orb) but even without them knowing the meaning, they didn't want their slaves to have anything of their own culture. Then the Chantry were effectively also forbidding them their vallaslin because they represented their gods. So the vallaslin are now a badge of honour that go with the declaration that "never again will we submit" and so mean exactly the opposite of what they did under the Evanuris. Solas, of course, who understands so little of the Dalish psyche just sees them as slave markings. I do find it ironic that someone who fought to give the elves their freedom is so disparaging about the one group of elves who value their freedom above everything else, just because they didn't welcome him with open arms when he approached them with his wisdom from the Fade. Felassan is the same. Both of them seem to think that the Dalish only care about the past and think they are "perfect" (Solas' words to a non friendly Lavellan - pot calling the kettle black), when if they just took the time to study and listen more than one bigoted Dalish clan (clan Virnehn has to be the worst example of the Dalish you could possibly have) they would realise how much they had in common. Looking back on what Solas says on the balcony when he is complimenting you, it is really very patronising. You are such a rare and remarkable person, are you sure it wasn't my anchor that changed you because surely the Dalish could not possibly have raised such a beautiful spirit? Have I misjudged them? (Yes, you bloody well have). I know. 1000%. Solas can be an asshole, and that's part of the reason I love this character and how he's written. Love me some shades of grey characters.
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Post by javeart on Jan 16, 2017 22:23:16 GMT
As well as the vallaslin indicating a particular positive aspect of their culture that they wish to dedicate their life too, it should also be remembered that in the past they were actually forbidden to have them when they were slaves of Tevinter. Obviously if the Magisters knew they were slave markings of someone else, they would not want their own slaves marked like that (although I do wonder how Corypheus knew this information - perhaps he got it from the orb) but even without them knowing the meaning, they didn't want their slaves to have anything of their own culture. Then the Chantry were effectively also forbidding them their vallaslin because they represented their gods. So the vallaslin are now a badge of honour that go with the declaration that "never again will we submit" and so mean exactly the opposite of what they did under the Evanuris. Solas, of course, who understands so little of the Dalish psyche just sees them as slave markings. I do find it ironic that someone who fought to give the elves their freedom is so disparaging about the one group of elves who value their freedom above everything else, just because they didn't welcome him with open arms when he approached them with his wisdom from the Fade. Felassan is the same. Both of them seem to think that the Dalish only care about the past and think they are "perfect" (Solas' words to a non friendly Lavellan - pot calling the kettle black), when if they just took the time to study and listen more than one bigoted Dalish clan (clan Virnehn has to be the worst example of the Dalish you could possibly have) they would realise how much they had in common. Looking back on what Solas says on the balcony when he is complimenting you, it is really very patronising. You are such a rare and remarkable person, are you sure it wasn't my anchor that changed you because surely the Dalish could not possibly have raised such a beautiful spirit? Have I misjudged them? (Yes, you bloody well have). Well, to be fair, Solas has a low opinion of basically everyone in modern Thedas after all he says that to every Inquisitor he likes I have to say that's the part I like the least of his writting, the whole "modern thedosian are not people but the Inquisitor is special and made me change my mind"... Still, the only thing that makes sense for me is that initally he's just trying very hard to keep his low opinion of them to make things easier. Also, Solas tells you if you keep the Vallaslin that he respects the "indomitable spirit" of the Dalish at least, I don't think he's blind to that
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 17, 2017 0:12:48 GMT
I've read some opinions of others in that they despise the markings because to them it means "Property of..." or that the Dalish are condoning their more flawed aspects of their culture like racism or their shunning of anyone who falls short of what they think it means to be Elvhen. Those flaws are a side effect, not the motive for getting a vallaslin. And frankly, a Symbol can be subverted from its original intent so just because an Inquisitor keeps her vallaslin doesn't mean she's saying, "I love being a slave!". If a swastika can go from a positive symbol to a reviled, corrupted image then a vallaslin can be the reverse, a symbol that the Dalish wearing it are defying those who started it. They're missing the whole point of what the symbolism means to the Dalish individual on a personal level. They're not necessarily having it tattooed on their face because they want to go shoot some shems or lord it over their city cousins. They could do that without the markings. To them, it could mean they valued the teachings of Andruil in staying united or that they wish to be protective like Mythal or that they love the art of crafting like June. Yes, but each Lavellan character can have a variety of responses to what Solas reveals about the vallaslin: 1. It's a slave marking! Yuck, get it off! 2. I don't care what it once meant; it means so much more to me; I'm keeping it. 3. If you think I should get rid of it, then okay, I trust you, Solas... 4. You telling me this pisses me off; I'm keeping this to spite you! And so much more. If I ever play through this scene I'm going to pick a polite refusal. (Is there one to the effect that it just looks good? Because the real reason I'm probably going to keep it is because I'm probably going to create a face/vallaslin combo that works so well that the face just wouldn't look the same without the vallaslin.)
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 17, 2017 0:24:06 GMT
As well as the vallaslin indicating a particular positive aspect of their culture that they wish to dedicate their life too, it should also be remembered that in the past they were actually forbidden to have them when they were slaves of Tevinter. Obviously if the Magisters knew they were slave markings of someone else, they would not want their own slaves marked like that (although I do wonder how Corypheus knew this information - perhaps he got it from the orb) but even without them knowing the meaning, they didn't want their slaves to have anything of their own culture. Then the Chantry were effectively also forbidding them their vallaslin because they represented their gods. So the vallaslin are now a badge of honour that go with the declaration that "never again will we submit" and so mean exactly the opposite of what they did under the Evanuris. Solas, of course, who understands so little of the Dalish psyche just sees them as slave markings. I do find it ironic that someone who fought to give the elves their freedom is so disparaging about the one group of elves who value their freedom above everything else, just because they didn't welcome him with open arms when he approached them with his wisdom from the Fade. Felassan is the same. Both of them seem to think that the Dalish only care about the past and think they are "perfect" (Solas' words to a non friendly Lavellan - pot calling the kettle black), when if they just took the time to study and listen more than one bigoted Dalish clan (clan Virnehn has to be the worst example of the Dalish you could possibly have) they would realise how much they had in common. Looking back on what Solas says on the balcony when he is complimenting you, it is really very patronising. You are such a rare and remarkable person, are you sure it wasn't my anchor that changed you because surely the Dalish could not possibly have raised such a beautiful spirit? Have I misjudged them? (Yes, you bloody well have). Well, to be fair, Solas has a low opinion of basically everyone in modern Thedas after all he says that to every Inquisitor he likes I have to say that's the part I like the least of his writting, the whole "modern thedosian are not people but the Inquisitor is special and made me change my mind"... Still, the only thing that makes sense for me is that initally he's just trying very hard to keep his low opinion of them to make things easier. I think that probably is what Solas is doing and why. I watched the "punch Solas" scene on Youtube and he says the Inquisitor proves that his initial assessment (that modern Thedasians are all "simple, thuggish, and crude") right. He goes on to say that the Inquisitor has no idea how comforting that is.
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Post by Artemis on Jan 17, 2017 0:43:40 GMT
Yes, but each Lavellan character can have a variety of responses to what Solas reveals about the vallaslin: 1. It's a slave marking! Yuck, get it off! 2. I don't care what it once meant; it means so much more to me; I'm keeping it. 3. If you think I should get rid of it, then okay, I trust you, Solas... 4. You telling me this pisses me off; I'm keeping this to spite you! And so much more. If I ever play through this scene I'm going to pick a polite refusal. (Is there one to the effect that it just looks good? Because the real reason I'm probably going to keep it is because I'm probably going to create a face/vallaslin combo that works so well that the face just wouldn't look the same without the vallaslin.) LOL I had this concern as well; it's not like I don't spend at least an hour in the CC trying to perfect my character's look >.> Turns out I ended up thinking my Lavellan was even cuter without his vallaslin. Plus there is the added bonus of sharing a pic of your Lavellan and other solasmancers seeing the lack of vallaslin and instantly empathizing with you lol
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 17, 2017 1:26:32 GMT
If I ever play through this scene I'm going to pick a polite refusal. (Is there one to the effect that it just looks good? Because the real reason I'm probably going to keep it is because I'm probably going to create a face/vallaslin combo that works so well that the face just wouldn't look the same without the vallaslin.) LOL I had this concern as well; it's not like I don't spend at least an hour in the CC trying to perfect my character's look >.> Turns out I ended up thinking my Lavellan was even cuter without his vallaslin. Plus there is the added bonus of sharing a pic of your Lavellan and other solasmancers seeing the lack of vallaslin and instantly empathizing with you lol Well, since I'd be romancing him more for completionism than for any actual attraction to him there's little to empathize with. But I guess I'll have to try taking off the vallaslin and being ready with the load button if the look doesn't work for her.
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Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
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CuriousArtemis
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Post by Artemis on Jan 17, 2017 1:28:40 GMT
LOL I had this concern as well; it's not like I don't spend at least an hour in the CC trying to perfect my character's look >.> Turns out I ended up thinking my Lavellan was even cuter without his vallaslin. Plus there is the added bonus of sharing a pic of your Lavellan and other solasmancers seeing the lack of vallaslin and instantly empathizing with you lol Well, since I'd be romancing him more for completionism than for any actual attraction to him there's little to empathize with. But I guess I'll have to try taking off the vallaslin and being ready with the load button if the look doesn't work for her. Another option is to go for the simplest vallaslin, the one that's just over one eye. That way when it's removed it's not a massive difference. OR try the lightest version of whichever vallaslin you choose. I've noticed that removing their vallaslin makes the Lavellan characters look younger, more innocent, and even "freer" in a sense. It's rather fascinating.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jan 17, 2017 3:57:51 GMT
Well, since I'd be romancing him more for completionism than for any actual attraction to him there's little to empathize with. But I guess I'll have to try taking off the vallaslin and being ready with the load button if the look doesn't work for her. Another option is to go for the simplest vallaslin, the one that's just over one eye. That way when it's removed it's not a massive difference. OR try the lightest version of whichever vallaslin you choose. I've noticed that removing their vallaslin makes the Lavellan characters look younger, more innocent, and even "freer" in a sense. It's rather fascinating. So basically removing their vallaslin makes them children again?
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 17, 2017 4:39:30 GMT
Yes, but each Lavellan character can have a variety of responses to what Solas reveals about the vallaslin: 1. It's a slave marking! Yuck, get it off! 2. I don't care what it once meant; it means so much more to me; I'm keeping it. 3. If you think I should get rid of it, then okay, I trust you, Solas... 4. You telling me this pisses me off; I'm keeping this to spite you! And so much more. If I ever play through this scene I'm going to pick a polite refusal. (Is there one to the effect that it just looks good? Because the real reason I'm probably going to keep it is because I'm probably going to create a face/vallaslin combo that works so well that the face just wouldn't look the same without the vallaslin.) The polite refusal option is actually the sweetest one, I think. It's a lovely scene - though I'd save beforehand, because that version's great, the glowy removal version's great, and the YOUR LOSS, ASSHOLE! version is also great. You can't say you want to keep them for aesthetic reasons, but you can say you want to keep them because they're a part of you.
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lynroy
N6
Thief
Current location: Tuchanka
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
Prime Posts: 24,721
Prime Likes: 34,638
Posts: 7,883 Likes: 19,996
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Mar 28, 2024 17:36:04 GMT
19,996
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Current location: Tuchanka
7,883
August 2016
lynroy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The3tWits
The3tWits
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Post by lynroy on Jan 17, 2017 5:10:22 GMT
Well, since I'd be romancing him more for completionism than for any actual attraction to him there's little to empathize with. But I guess I'll have to try taking off the vallaslin and being ready with the load button if the look doesn't work for her. Another option is to go for the simplest vallaslin, the one that's just over one eye. That way when it's removed it's not a massive difference. OR try the lightest version of whichever vallaslin you choose. I've noticed that removing their vallaslin makes the Lavellan characters look younger, more innocent, and even "freer" in a sense. It's rather fascinating. I don't know, I thought one of my Lavellans looked older and more her age after having them removed.
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