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Post by Artemis on Sept 26, 2016 16:07:51 GMT
I LOVE THAT PICTURE!!!!!!!!!! I don't think we want what isn't there... I think we want MORE. A few times the writers tried to emphasize humor when I think for most Bullmancers, especially those of us who made this our primary pairing, did not want that. We wanted, well, a real romance. A serious romance, or rather, a romance taken seriously by its own writers. Bull is certainly an emotional person, and I think this could've been expanded on several times throughout the game, rather than focusing on wild sex acts or humor.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 26, 2016 17:51:33 GMT
@witchcoktor That pic is beautiful! It's small but tasteful and so touching! That'd be the kind of ceremony I'd also want for Blackwall! And no, it is NOT romantic when your LI is flirting with another and making offers that imply you're blocking him. > I think it's as Artemis said, it's not wanting Bull to be something he's not, fans just want more of what is already given. Bull does care; He cares like in that final scene when he calls the Inquisitor kadan and it's too brief that we see that vulnerable side to him. Cole touched another side that he doesn't show, like how he regretted a past teammate's death because he felt he could have stopped them from their own behavior.
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 26, 2016 21:17:03 GMT
Well, you guys have a point. There was a lot of romance and emotion behind all that bluster, and it was showcased. And honestly, the marriage thing and the not having sex for love was talked about so many times with Bull, so it would've been a pretty nice character development for him to ask Inquisitor's hand in marriage, granted you saved the Chargers.
I was just thinking maybe I sounded too selfish that I wanted Bull to be a certain way. WELL IF ANYTHING, some differences in vanilla and especially Trespasser should've been made whether you save the chargers or you don't. It's pretty freaking weird that there was no development on that regard...
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 26, 2016 21:46:57 GMT
BioWare does have a way of not treating their romances evenly. It's immensely frustrating to have your preferred/favored romance get slighted -- and right in your face as if you won't notice.
I would've liked to have more heart and less humor with Bull. I'm a big sucker for fluff so I was thinking that I shouldn't want to make Bull more of something he isn't (not that I expect him to write sonnets or anything like that), but it would've been nice to see more of his softer side. That's all I wanted.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 26, 2016 21:58:01 GMT
Well, you guys have a point. There was a lot of romance and emotion behind all that bluster, and it was showcased. And honestly, the marriage thing and the not having sex for love was talked about so many times with Bull, so it would've been a pretty nice character development for him to ask Inquisitor's hand in marriage, granted you saved the Chargers. I was just thinking maybe I sounded too selfish that I wanted Bull to be a certain way. WELL IF ANYTHING, some differences in vanilla and especially Trespasser should've been made whether you save the chargers or you don't. It's pretty freaking weird that there was no development on that regard... Nah, wanting equal treatment for all romances isn't being selfish. And seeing differences in our choices has always been a high demand, something that while it's an elusive goal at least means that Bioware accomplished their goal in getting us to care. We can be appreciative of what they do try to give us while asking politely for a little bit here or there. It's not like we'll go on an ending riot at least
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2016 18:36:40 GMT
I didn't really think any of the trespasser romance content was all that great. They put most of the focus on mini games, and the mini war with the qun. The focus on story is understandable of course, but since they sort of teased it like a citadel dlc (or maybe that was just my imagination that they did that), I was disappointed in the level of romance content there was to be had. Iron Bull's romance content was still better then Dorian's at least. I mean 90% of Dorian's trespasser content was "oh I'm leaving you, we'll skype on a crystal".
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Post by Artemis on Sept 27, 2016 18:45:14 GMT
I didn't really think any of the trespasser romance content was all that great. They put most of the focus on mini games, and the mini war with the qun. The focus on story is understandable of course, but since they sort of teased it like a citadel dlc (or maybe that was just my imagination that they did that), I was disappointed in the level of romance content there was to be had. Iron Bull's romance content was still better then Dorian's at least. I mean 90% of Dorian's trespasser content was "oh I'm leaving you, we'll skype on a crystal". That just makes me so mad and I didn't even romance him. Like... what a slap in the face to all the fans?!?! And him being the first gay romance. Can they at least allow him and his love to have a happy ending? I call bullshit I'm getting salty, sorry everyone It just does feel like the game is almost punishing you at times if you aren't romancing "the right" person (a.k.a. Solas). (What even is this game if you aren't playing a female elf romancing Solas.) (Seriously, my modded male elf Solasmance made it feel like I was playing a totally different game... I was invested in the story, the characters, the feels... harrumph.) With the Qun being so important in the Trespasser you would think this would allow Bull to shine a bit. Oh well. WOULDN'T WANT ANYONE TO GET IN THE WAY OF THE SOLAS SHOW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2016 19:05:42 GMT
I didn't really think any of the trespasser romance content was all that great. They put most of the focus on mini games, and the mini war with the qun. The focus on story is understandable of course, but since they sort of teased it like a citadel dlc (or maybe that was just my imagination that they did that), I was disappointed in the level of romance content there was to be had. Iron Bull's romance content was still better then Dorian's at least. I mean 90% of Dorian's trespasser content was "oh I'm leaving you, we'll skype on a crystal". That just makes me so mad and I didn't even romance him. Like... what a slap in the face to all the fans?!?! And him being the first gay romance. Can they at least allow him and his love to have a happy ending? I call bullshit I'm getting salty, sorry everyone It just does feel like the game is almost punishing you at times if you aren't romancing "the right" person (a.k.a. Solas). (What even is this game if you aren't playing a female elf romancing Solas.) (Seriously, my modded male elf Solasmance made it feel like I was playing a totally different game... I was invested in the story, the characters, the feels... harrumph.) With the Qun being so important in the Trespasser you would think this would allow Bull to shine a bit. Oh well. WOULDN'T WANT ANYONE TO GET IN THE WAY OF THE SOLAS SHOW. I personally don't care for the Solas romance. It's too much drama for me, but it seems like a lot of people like it a lot. I'd much rather cuddle up with my Iron Boo (which is pretty much what I always call him).
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Post by Catilina on Sept 27, 2016 19:08:59 GMT
That just makes me so mad and I didn't even romance him. Like... what a slap in the face to all the fans?!?! And him being the first gay romance. Can they at least allow him and his love to have a happy ending? I call bullshit I'm getting salty, sorry everyone It just does feel like the game is almost punishing you at times if you aren't romancing "the right" person (a.k.a. Solas). (What even is this game if you aren't playing a female elf romancing Solas.) (Seriously, my modded male elf Solasmance made it feel like I was playing a totally different game... I was invested in the story, the characters, the feels... harrumph.) With the Qun being so important in the Trespasser you would think this would allow Bull to shine a bit. Oh well. WOULDN'T WANT ANYONE TO GET IN THE WAY OF THE SOLAS SHOW. I personally don't care for the Solas romance. It's too much drama for me, but it seems like a lot of people like it a lot. I'd much rather cuddle up with my Iron Boo (which is pretty much what I always call him). I would like for story, but I also don't like the so much the dramas (a little bit drama not problem for me, but I prefer the happy end – maybe I'm so simple...)
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Post by Artemis on Sept 27, 2016 19:21:40 GMT
lol I can see not liking the drama or Solas himself. It's just... the whole game seems like it revolves around that romance. And if you aren't playing it, then you're missing out. That's all. And I wouldn't have thought that if i hadn't gotten the chance to play the romance. But when I did, it really changed the game for me.
It's kind of like Alistair/Morrigan to the extreme. Like, those were clearly the "preferred" romances since they tied into the story so much. Or even Anders/Isabela. I hate when that happens in DA games. It makes you feel like your LI was an afterthought.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 27, 2016 19:31:59 GMT
lol I can see not liking the drama or Solas himself. It's just... the whole game seems like it revolves around that romance. And if you aren't playing it, then you're missing out. That's all. And I wouldn't have thought that if i hadn't gotten the chance to play the romance. But when I did, it really changed the game for me. It's kind of like Alistair/Morrigan to the extreme. Like, those were clearly the "preferred" romances since they tied into the story so much. Or even Anders/Isabela. I hate when that happens in DA games. It makes you feel like your LI was an afterthought. Oh, Anders romance was great, and the happy end is possible (apart from the few dead ...) This is what I miss in the Inquisition.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2016 18:54:56 GMT
I've seen all the Solas content, and I can't agree with the idea that it is the main romance. First of all it was a bonus romance added in the final year of development, and it has less content then many of the romances. I don't see where it adds anything special to the game other then specifically to people who want to romance him. There relationship isn't any more significant than any of the others.
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Post by opuspace on Sept 29, 2016 5:49:31 GMT
I've seen all the Solas content, and I can't agree with the idea that it is the main romance. First of all it was a bonus romance added in the final year of development, and it has less content then many of the romances. I don't see where it adds anything special to the game other then specifically to people who want to romance him. There relationship isn't any more significant than any of the others. True, in some ways, the Solas romance is sparse compared to the Sera romance or the Cullen romance. But I do think some romances were favored over the others (as in, they got far more love and closure while others were left with questions)
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Post by Artemis on Sept 29, 2016 14:22:13 GMT
I've seen all the Solas content, and I can't agree with the idea that it is the main romance. First of all it was a bonus romance added in the final year of development, and it has less content then many of the romances. I don't see where it adds anything special to the game other then specifically to people who want to romance him. There relationship isn't any more significant than any of the others. It is in a way though simply because Solas is the character whose story is most interwoven with the overall narrative. Furthermore, Solas gives a romanced female Lavellan lore-related information that it is IMPOSSIBLE to receive otherwise: that the vallaslin are slave markings. That's pretty huge, and I call bullshit that it's only accessible via a VERY restricted romance. A character like Bull could have been nearly equally interwoven, or there could've been an attempt to try. Instead, the Qun is barely involved in the main game, and in Trespasser there's the little potential betrayal scene, but otherwise Bull knows nothing about the evil Qun gal (forget her name) and her plans and gives us no insight on the Qun whatsoever. It's very frustrating.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 29, 2016 14:27:27 GMT
I've seen all the Solas content, and I can't agree with the idea that it is the main romance. First of all it was a bonus romance added in the final year of development, and it has less content then many of the romances. I don't see where it adds anything special to the game other then specifically to people who want to romance him. There relationship isn't any more significant than any of the others. It is in a way though simply because Solas is the character whose story is most interwoven with the overall narrative. Furthermore, Solas gives a romanced female Lavellan lore-related information that it is IMPOSSIBLE to receive otherwise: that the vallaslin are slave markings. That's pretty huge, and I call bullshit that it's only accessible via a VERY restricted romance. A character like Bull could have been nearly equally interwoven, or there could've been an attempt to try. Instead, the Qun is barely involved in the main game, and in Trespasser there's the little potential betrayal scene, but otherwise Bull knows nothing about the evil Qun gal (forget her name) and her plans and gives us no insight on the Qun whatsoever. It's very frustrating. This information exist in Trespasser (on the wall), when you activate the Dread Wolf statue.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 29, 2016 20:13:58 GMT
It is in a way though simply because Solas is the character whose story is most interwoven with the overall narrative. Furthermore, Solas gives a romanced female Lavellan lore-related information that it is IMPOSSIBLE to receive otherwise: that the vallaslin are slave markings. That's pretty huge, and I call bullshit that it's only accessible via a VERY restricted romance. A character like Bull could have been nearly equally interwoven, or there could've been an attempt to try. Instead, the Qun is barely involved in the main game, and in Trespasser there's the little potential betrayal scene, but otherwise Bull knows nothing about the evil Qun gal (forget her name) and her plans and gives us no insight on the Qun whatsoever. It's very frustrating. This information exist in Trespasser (on the wall), when you activate the Dread Wolf statue. Except that it's dlc content, not free from the base game. They shouldn't have restricted that knowledge through romance, imo. Corypheus mentions it in the final battle to Lavellan and if you didn't romance Solas, you won't have context.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 29, 2016 20:15:17 GMT
This information exist in Trespasser (on the wall), when you activate the Dread Wolf statue. Except that it's dlc content, not free from the base game. They shouldn't have restricted that knowledge through romance, imo. Corypheus mentions it in the final battle to Lavellan and if you didn't romance Solas, you won't have context. True. And I agree...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 17:43:05 GMT
This information exist in Trespasser (on the wall), when you activate the Dread Wolf statue. Except that it's dlc content, not free from the base game. They shouldn't have restricted that knowledge through romance, imo. Corypheus mentions it in the final battle to Lavellan and if you didn't romance Solas, you won't have context. Yeah, even though I feel like Trespasser is a must have for anyone who wants to get the full experience of DAI, it would have been nice if lore important details weren't limited to romantic realationships...especially one that were added to "make his story that much more tragic" not sure that was exactly the writers words describing Solas romance, but it was something close to that.
I think if we are going to race gate, gender gate, and other such things with the romances all of them should have at least an option for a good ending. I mean I know many people seem to like the tragic romances, but I'm not a fan. Real life has enough tragic endings, and I find happy endings to be the preferred option in fantasy life.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 1, 2016 22:20:48 GMT
Except that it's dlc content, not free from the base game. They shouldn't have restricted that knowledge through romance, imo. Corypheus mentions it in the final battle to Lavellan and if you didn't romance Solas, you won't have context. Yeah, even though I feel like Trespasser is a must have for anyone who wants to get the full experience of DAI, it would have been nice if lore important details weren't limited to romantic realationships...especially one that were added to "make his story that much more tragic" not sure that was exactly the writers words describing Solas romance, but it was something close to that.
I think if we are going to race gate, gender gate, and other such things with the romances all of them should have at least an option for a good ending. I mean I know many people seem to like the tragic romances, but I'm not a fan. Real life has enough tragic endings, and I find happy endings to be the preferred option in fantasy life.
HERE, HERE!!!!!! #1 reason I have to do ALLLL the planet scanning and crap for the ME trilogy b/c so long as I get The Breathe™ and can finish the game yet again with the knowledge that Shep and Kaidan will see one another again some day then I feel content hahaha
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Oct 2, 2016 4:30:43 GMT
Except that it's dlc content, not free from the base game. They shouldn't have restricted that knowledge through romance, imo. Corypheus mentions it in the final battle to Lavellan and if you didn't romance Solas, you won't have context. Yeah, even though I feel like Trespasser is a must have for anyone who wants to get the full experience of DAI, it would have been nice if lore important details weren't limited to romantic realationships...especially one that were added to "make his story that much more tragic" not sure that was exactly the writers words describing Solas romance, but it was something close to that.
I think if we are going to race gate, gender gate, and other such things with the romances all of them should have at least an option for a good ending. I mean I know many people seem to like the tragic romances, but I'm not a fan. Real life has enough tragic endings, and I find happy endings to be the preferred option in fantasy life.
Pretty much. If one specific player character gets this information through flimsy circumstance they all should, especially when it's available in the base game. I've done Solas' romance and I do enjoy it but maybe I'm in the minority because I don't think of it as being tragic? At least not yet. Maybe I'm just optimistic. ;D When it comes to plot-romances I don't really mind them being more on the angsty side, but yeah, I'd really like the option or chance to have a happy ending. *glances at avatar* I mean, even in DAO Alistair had options...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 3:12:55 GMT
Yeah, even though I feel like Trespasser is a must have for anyone who wants to get the full experience of DAI, it would have been nice if lore important details weren't limited to romantic realationships...especially one that were added to "make his story that much more tragic" not sure that was exactly the writers words describing Solas romance, but it was something close to that.
I think if we are going to race gate, gender gate, and other such things with the romances all of them should have at least an option for a good ending. I mean I know many people seem to like the tragic romances, but I'm not a fan. Real life has enough tragic endings, and I find happy endings to be the preferred option in fantasy life.
Pretty much. If one specific player character gets this information through flimsy circumstance they all should, especially when it's available in the base game. I've done Solas' romance and I do enjoy it but maybe I'm in the minority because I don't think of it as being tragic? At least not yet. Maybe I'm just optimistic. ;D When it comes to plot-romances I don't really mind them being more on the angsty side, but yeah, I'd really like the option or chance to have a happy ending. *glances at avatar* I mean, even in DAO Alistair had options... Not completely relative to the thread, but I have to say as much as I love Anders-I have to use a good bit of head cannon to make his relationship with Hawke work. Still love the guy though.
Anywho, my recent playthrough of DAI is almost done, and It was great getting to romance the big lug (Iron Bull) again. I sometimes lose steam for the game after I get through with the Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts quest, since there's not a lot of romance content left. In particular it seems a bit of a grind to go through the dlc (mostly that applies to Descent). Still though, I do like to finish things out so I can transfer it over to the keep to make those "prefect" world states.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Oct 3, 2016 6:07:28 GMT
Pretty much. If one specific player character gets this information through flimsy circumstance they all should, especially when it's available in the base game. I've done Solas' romance and I do enjoy it but maybe I'm in the minority because I don't think of it as being tragic? At least not yet. Maybe I'm just optimistic. ;D When it comes to plot-romances I don't really mind them being more on the angsty side, but yeah, I'd really like the option or chance to have a happy ending. *glances at avatar* I mean, even in DAO Alistair had options... Not completely relative to the thread, but I have to say as much as I love Anders-I have to use a good bit of head cannon to make his relationship with Hawke work. Still love the guy though.
Anywho, my recent playthrough of DAI is almost done, and It was great getting to romance the big lug (Iron Bull) again. I sometimes lose steam for the game after I get through with the Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts quest, since there's not a lot of romance content left. In particular it seems a bit of a grind to go through the dlc (mostly that applies to Descent). Still though, I do like to finish things out so I can transfer it over to the keep to make those "prefect" world states.
*wants to talk about Anders--remembers this is Iron Bull's thread* Don't tempt me. Anders is my precious.No headcanon required for me. (Except the happily ever after bit.)*coughs* tbh I get tired just thinking about doing Wicked Hearts. I actually had to stop playing my Bullmancer because after a quick run through the end (I play it more than once because reasons) Cassandra became Divine... and I'm not sure I want that. BUT the only way to fix it would be to backtrack to the latest save I have before Wicked Hearts----which is 40+ hours ago. I would do it, though, because I'm stubborn. I know I can change it in the Keep but I'd still have to play through Trespasser with it and... eh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 7:50:51 GMT
I can totally understand the pain of getting the wrong divine. I tend to over plan ahead for that though, so I usually get the right one thankfully. Mostly that's Lelianna cause I'm pro-mage freedom. Random thought, but I wonder if Iron Bull becomes more okay with the idea of mage freedom after he's free from the qun? It doesn't matter much I suppose...but these are the things I think about.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2016 1:40:18 GMT
I can totally understand the pain of getting the wrong divine. I tend to over plan ahead for that though, so I usually get the right one thankfully. Mostly that's Lelianna cause I'm pro-mage freedom. Random thought, but I wonder if Iron Bull becomes more okay with the idea of mage freedom after he's free from the qun? It doesn't matter much I suppose...but these are the things I think about. I don't think Bull had much trouble with mages per se (more like Vints who hurt innocents). I think he's a roll with the flow kind of guy so long as chaos is kept in check. If mages are behaving, then no need to crack down. That's my guess anyway.
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Post by witchcocktor on Oct 4, 2016 16:27:20 GMT
I hope he doesn't, because supporting mage freedom shouldn't be some kind of standard that all DA characters should strive for. And futhermore, what matters is that he is not anti-mage, but rather anti-mage freedom. He is not really anti-anyone to be precise, I mean the dude becomes physically and emotionally involved with a tevinter Magister (whether he is part of the Qun or not) for Maker's sake if you let him.
What could be troublesome, though, is that his opinions are directly influenced by Qun propaganda, rather than one's own experience. But one can't completely disregard that Qun has some teachings that might have some sense to them.
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