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Post by Augustei on Jan 4, 2019 17:52:45 GMT
The Witcher 3 did multiple cities.....well, two....but I think it's beyond Bioware to do the same. I want Minrathous, and I'll be very disappointed if I won't get it. Anything else is a bonus. Two cities, and one was considerably smaller than the other. Honestly if they can give us a Minrathous that’s a little bigger than Novigrad I don’t think I’d need any more full city maps. Though honestly, even if they broke the map up into a few districts I could probably be satisfied as long as each one was well done. Anything but a repeat of Val Royeaux’s disappointment would be preferable honestly. You refer to Oxenfurt? What about Beauclair, wasn't even in the main game a DLC city and still damn impressive. I wish Val Royeaux were even half the city Beauclair was
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Post by theascendent on Jan 14, 2019 1:53:47 GMT
What was the population of Minrathous? I think I read somewhere that it was around a million people.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 14, 2019 2:43:59 GMT
What was the population of Minrathous? I think I read somewhere that it was around a million people. It's described as the largest city in Thedas, but off the top of my head I don't think we have any concrete numbers. Unless it's mentioned it WoT.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 14, 2019 14:08:58 GMT
It's described as the largest city in Thedas, but off the top of my head I don't think we have any concrete numbers. Unless it's mentioned it WoT. I believe the figure of 1 million that is often quoted was taken from the original Prima Game Guide when Origins came out. I can't say for certain since I don't have it myself but I seem to recall that is the source.
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Post by theascendent on May 1, 2019 11:57:23 GMT
How has the Tevinter economy survived for so long? I remember reading that slave based economies ultimately fail in the long term as it becomes more costly to use slaves as a cheap workforce. Not to mention using magic on your buildings lessening the need for skilled labour. Any thoughts?
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Post by Ieldra on May 2, 2019 7:16:56 GMT
How has the Tevinter economy survived for so long? I remember reading that slave based economies ultimately fail in the long term as it becomes more costly to use slaves as a cheap workforce. Not to mention using magic on your buildings lessening the need for skilled labour. Any thoughts? As a general statement, this is wrong. The success of an economic sector that uses slavery is dependent on several factors. It is usually said to fail when faced with competition from an emerging industrial economy, which requires more skilled labor than slavery can usually provide. Again - usually. It is not quite clear, for instance, how long the economy of the American Confederation could have survived had slavery not become a political issue. There is a rather insightful book on the subject: Fogel RW, Engerman SL: "Time on the Cross" (1995) that I can only recommend. I've read it in response to exactly this argument about Tevinter which triggered a debate about slavery back on BSN prime.
As for another example: the Roman Empire had - along with the misery usually associated with slavery - a lot of very skilled slaves whose lives were not as bad as you might imagine, simply for economic reasons. Back then, slavery was omnipresent, *and* the Roman Empire was the most advanced society of its time (and remained unsurpassed until after the European Middle Ages), so there weren't any greener pastures for slaves where they could flee.
Slavery, as I see it, is an ethical issue. The argument that a slave-based economy is destined to fail is an example of the rose-tinted pseudo-pragmatism often used by people who think that progress (whatever you think that is) is inevitable, so you'd better bow to the inevitable and be a better person for it on top of it. In reality, morality has costs, more often than not. If it hadn't, we wouldn't need it since nobody would have any motivation to act otherwise. Slavery, unfortunately, isn't a thing of a the past everywhere in the world either, it's just not called that anymore.
To get back to Tevinter, we can assume that the conditions are such that a slave-based economy could survive. Which conditions these are exactly is unknown at this time. We also don't know which sectors of Tevinter's economy depend more on slaves or less. The Roman Empire obviously served as inspiration for Tevinter, so reading up about slavery in the Roman Empire might provide some insights: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome
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Post by theascendent on May 2, 2019 13:59:14 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. A pleasure to brush up on my classical history.
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Post by vertigomez on May 24, 2019 1:25:51 GMT
Fenris's post-Blade of Mercy conversation. SO!! MUCH!! FORESHADOWING!! 👀 Hawke: You don't talk about the Imperium much. Fenris: It's not a place I remember fondly. Hawke: Doesn't the Chantry forbid mages to rule over men? Fenris: Ahh, yes. 'Magic is meant to serve man, and not rule over him.' In the Imperium they say that means magic should serve the greater good, which they claim the Magisters do. Do not believe it. Hawke: What do the Magisters do that's so bad? Fenris: What you call the Circle of Magi rules the Imperium. They control the Chantry, as well as the Templars. They claim the Magisters are governed by holy law; but they are the law. They do as they please. All of them. Hawke: So they all use forbidden magic? Fenris: The more powerful the mage, the higher he rises in the Senate. He makes the laws, he determines what is acceptable. Everyone who wishes to compete must do the same or be crushed. Perhaps it wasn't always this way, but it is now. Hawke: The slave trade is still in operation in the Imperium? Fenris: It varies from one Archon to the next. One outlawed it many years ago; he was quickly assassinated. Tevinter would crumble without slaves. The Imperium's elite know no other way. Hawke: Seems like a slave rebellion would end that. Fenris: There are rebellions all the time, actually. Most of them end... poorly. The Senate always unites when faced with sedition. One day things will change. Then the Magisters will see just how fragile their hold is. Hawke: I heard that the Imperium has been at war with the Qunari for decades. Fenris: Ever since the Qunari landed on the island of Seheron, yes. Eighty years ago, perhaps more? The Archon demanded aid from the rest of Thedas. It didn't get him far. Hawke: They've been at war a long time. Fenris: The Qunari only ever wanted Seheron, which they have. The Imperium has made numerous attempts to retake the island without real success. I believe the Qunari are saving their strength, building a massive fleet. When they wish true war, we will know. Hawke: Are the Qunari that strong? Fenris: They once fought all the lands of Thedas to a standstill. If they wanted to conquer the Imperium, they would. From what I saw on Seheron, they will not relent. They believe even more strongly than the Magisters that they are in the right. - Particularly the points about slave rebellions ("one day things will change, then the Magisters will see just how fragile their hold is") and the Qunari ("saving their strength"/"if they wanted to conquer the Imperium, they would"). In light of the Deception comic and the fall of Qarinus Ventus, Calpernia's disappointment in Corypheus because he was supposed to make Tevinter a real rival to "the savage Qunari" and her noting that Anodatus and co. aren't maintaining Minrathous's Juggernauts and are otherwise growing complacent, the rise of the Lucerni faction, and potential splintering of the Qun (well, Gatt talking about different interpretations, at least. As well as the current Arishok having spent time with bas during the Blight....). Basically still speculating on the same old stuff, but it's been a while since I had this conversation with Fenris so I thought I'd comb through it again.
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Post by vertigomez on May 28, 2019 19:47:19 GMT
Moment of appreciation for Tevinter's finest.
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Post by theascendent on May 28, 2019 21:32:02 GMT
Does anyone know how magic works in a biological sense? We all know that mages are born, a muggle can never cast a spell. But is there as a specific gene in humans/elves/qunari that allows them to access the Fade and use magic? If so, how can this tracked and documented in a meaningful manner? It seems to me that the 'magical gene' is very random, chaotic even. It seems just as likely for two mages procreating to have a muggle as it is for the opposite to happen, the games as shown us plenty of examples of mages being born into previously mundane families, but rarely have I seen a muggle born between mages. I am not denying that it could happen, but I just found it curious.
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Post by vertigomez on May 28, 2019 22:19:12 GMT
Does anyone know how magic works in a biological sense? We all know that mages are born, a muggle can never cast a spell. But is there as a specific gene in humans/elves/qunari that allows them to access the Fade and use magic? If so, how can this tracked and documented in a meaningful manner? It seems to me that the 'magical gene' is very random, chaotic even. It seems just as likely for two mages procreating to have a muggle as it is for the opposite to happen, the games as shown us plenty of examples of mages being born into previously mundane families, but rarely have I seen a muggle born between mages. I am not denying that it could happen, but I just found it curious. It's hard to say just because of the nature of magic and mages in Thedas in general. Like, if elves were originally all mages, when did humans get magic? When did qunari? It's hard to factor that in with genetics as we know them because all of the different races and the setting itself are kind of ~mystical~ in nature. Elf + non-elf pairings only ever produce non-elves, ffs. But if I wanted to apply some real-world logic to it, I'd say it's a little bit like a recessive gene. Not super common, as mages are obviously fewer in number than non-mages, and in Tevinter the Alti are families who've manifested magic before. But it can also just pop up in families with seemingly no history of magic, a bit like a mutation? The Amells were notorious for producing mages... all five of Revka's children, either one or two of Leandra's children, and who knows how many ancestors. But they're obviously still a minority in the bloodline or that wouldn't be significant. Kieran seems to imply he's a mage regardless of whether his father was one or not; we at least know his mother and maternal grandmother were mages. Eamon and Isolde produce one or possibly two mage children (depending on how much weight you give the epilogue slides), and neither of them are mages. Fenris's mother probably wasn't a mage and Varania turned out to be one. Wynne has a mage kid with Greagoir. I'm sure it's possible for two mages to produce a non-mage, even if it's statistically unlikely. There are bound to be non-mages born in Altus bloodlines, or else there wouldn't be so much emphasis on selective breeding. (This conversation makes me feel like I'm talking about horses or dogs lmaaoo. But yeah. That's all I got.)
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Post by Ieldra on May 29, 2019 11:05:52 GMT
Does anyone know how magic works in a biological sense? We all know that mages are born, a muggle can never cast a spell. But is there as a specific gene in humans/elves/qunari that allows them to access the Fade and use magic? If so, how can this tracked and documented in a meaningful manner? It seems to me that the 'magical gene' is very random, chaotic even. It seems just as likely for two mages procreating to have a muggle as it is for the opposite to happen, the games as shown us plenty of examples of mages being born into previously mundane families, but rarely have I seen a muggle born between mages. I am not denying that it could happen, but I just found it curious. There are various possibilities here. It's possible that magical aptitude works is passed on as a recessive gene as pointed out by vertigomez above, but here is another hypothesis: every human (I'll restrict this to humans for now) has a connection to the Fade, it's just stronger in the mageborn. We also know that there are mageborn with weaker and stronger aptitudes. Because of that, magical aptitude might be easier to explain as an epigenetic trait. The first appearance in people whose families haven't so far had any mageborn children appears to be somewhat random but often triggered by traumatic events. These are likely to leave behind some heritable change in genetic expression. Meanwhile, the simple fact of using magic a lot could also result in heritable changes in gene expression, and that would explain why magic runs in families and that it isn't a simple "yes or no" switch.
In order to test this hypothesis, you'd have to examine whether there is a clustering effect in the emergence of magical aptitude, i.e. whether or not the appearance of magical aptitude in a family which didn't have it before results in a higher probability for its descendants to have magical aptitude than could be explained by random appearance, starting from the date of first appearance. A necessary condition is that there is no intermarriage with families with known magical aptitude for a few generations during the examination period. It would probably be somewhat hard to find all the necessary conditions...
And to go totally off the road, there could be influences from the Fade that result in stronger or weaker magical aptitude. It is known that every human has a connection with the Fade, but it is completely unknown whether the Fade could influence innate traits or their expression.
I suspect Tevinter scholars know a lot about this, though of course they'd have their own terminology and their own scientific paradigm, lacking the knowledge of molecular genetics.
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Post by Ieldra on May 29, 2019 11:13:19 GMT
Moment of appreciation for Tevinter's finest. That armor is truly impressive, but the shades spoil the picture
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Post by vertigomez on May 29, 2019 12:34:18 GMT
Moment of appreciation for Tevinter's finest. That armor is truly impressive, but the shades spoil the picture Nonsense, he's working that anachronism. - I really like your theory up ahead, by the way. It makes much more sense than mine - as much as any talk of genetics works in a setting that doesn't know about DNA. Since every race except dwarves has a connection to the Fade via dreams, and mages have a stronger connection than most, if some kind of trauma or big event triggers magic in families where it's never appeared before, it's almost like people - elves, humans, qunari - are reaching for that lost connection to the Fade. It makes sense in light of Solas's reveal.
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Post by vertigomez on May 29, 2019 12:56:40 GMT
Thought I'd leave these here: - Mostly unrelated to the above (except, ya know, Tevinter), but these two codex entries - "A Missing Slave" and "A Magister's Needs" - are a real kick in the throat. I'll leave them here, too. A Missing Slave
In Tevinter, a slave is invisible, even though the entire empire rests on our backs. Our hands built the walls of Minrathous and carry its wealth along the crumbling roads. Scribes like myself take dictation and write letters that shift the balance of power. My daughter, Leonora, a kitchen slave, works night and day so Magister Delphine isn't troubled by a torn robe or a cold supper.
Normally, I meet Leonora about the kitchens. But it has been days since our paths crossed. No one has seen her.
I can't help but think of the old stories that cross the slave markets like lightning, how, centuries ago, the ancients built their cities with blood magic, raising the very towers and walls with terrible rituals using our lives as fuel. Thousands of slaves were sacrificed as we were forced onto the altars of the Old Gods. Magister Delphine's perfect, marble-faced mansion likely stands on the back of a hundred voiceless elves.
But that was a different time. Andraste's words against blood magic made the practice all but forbidden and shunned. Though we may be punished, few slaves are dragged to the altar or milked of blood without at least some reprimand.
Yet Leonora is missing, and Magister Delphine seems different. She carries an aura she never had before. And rumors fly that a bitter rival has been publicly humiliated in a duel of magic. Through my grief I fear, I know, that my Leonora's life was the price.
I ache to speak as an equal with Magister Delphine, to demand answers. But such an audience would be joke to her. No one sees a slave.
—Written in secret by slave scribe Solvarin Brann, 8:65 Blessed A Magister's Needs
Dearest sister:
It's been an age since I've written, but I simply had to thank you! Your advice was perfect. Just a few gossips bought with gold and everyone in Minrathous thought Quirinus and I were the most dreadful rivals. It let us indulge our little love affair without his wretched family interfering, if only for a little while.
Quirinus himself sadly turned out to be less ideal. I caught him carrying on behind my back, with a soporati of all things. Can you imagine? There was nothing for it. During the quarrel, I threw boiling water at his face. Let his soporati kiss the scars better.
He's cowering in his mansion now, pretending he was hurt in a duel. No doubt he'll want revenge. Don't worry, dear sister. I took precautions. Don't tell anyone, but my master taught me a few secrets that should keep me safe. The ritual cost me the mansion's kitchen slave. Lenna, I think she was called? But I've enough power now to keep Quirinus from trying anything foolish. Kitchen slaves can be bought by the dozen at the market, so there's no harm in it.
I feel wonderful, dear sister. Won't you come for Wintersend this year? I'll have my new slave trained to make your favorite lemon cakes by then. It'll be perfect.
—Letter from Magister Delphine to her sister Aulia, 8:65 Blessed Brings to mind aaaall those people in the City Elf origin who got kidnapped and sold to Tevinter.
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Post by sandwichtern on Jun 10, 2019 20:01:47 GMT
Duly impressed: A traveller's guide to discovering TevinterSo, after years of only hearing second-hand about the wonders and grandness of the Imperium, I thought it would be interesting to muse a bit on which of those things I'd like to see with my own eyes for Tevinter to really live up to its reputation. - Minrathous: One of my favourite cut-scenes in DA:O is when the warden and Duncan arrive at Ostagar and reach the end of the Imperial Highway by crossing the weathered old bridge lined with statues, so I'm very much looking forward to seeing the highway's starting point at Minrathous. I read it mentioned in this thread that the city is located on an island, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the bridge will be similar, high as heaven one with a vista which takes your breath away. Also, lots of statues dating back to Tevinter-ruled Ferelden depict figures holding what I'm assuming to be a spear, so I've always been curious if the difficulty of identifying staff-carrying mages from the rest of populace partially stems from polearms being a lot more common than we see in the games and especially so in Tevinter. - Marnas Pell: The city where, on a top of a particular tower, the Black Emporium is rumoured to located. Although highly unlikely (and probably pointless busywork by most people's standards), it could be cool to have sidequest where our protagonist would actually meet Xenon's urchin and gain entry to Emporium by locating its hidden entrance instead of receiving the usual invitation. I find the hiddenness of Xenon's lair utterly fascinating because it makes me think of a story of a town called Vineta placed under an enchantment which caused it to be accessible only once in every hundred years for a single hour. - Vyrantium: For players of DA:I, Vyrantium is a name that makes one think of Vyrantium samite. Samite is a type of silk fabric, so I'd expect (slave-run??) silk industry to be one of the major sources of income in the town. You'd see Mulberry tree groves in the outskirts of the town. As I find moths to be slightly unnerving, it would be creepy awesome have a quest were track down a demon to a building used to raise the moth larvae. Imagine opening the front door and entering the deathly silent building and find white palm-sized (this is Dragon Age, we have spiders the size of ponies and bigger here ) adult moths covering every available surface in the vast room filled with wooden racks for weaved baskets containing the larvae and mulberry leaves, the demon having killed all the workers. - Actually, given the size of spiders in Thedas, I'm surprised spider silk isn't bigger thing in there. - Buildings: I haven't seen people talking about Tevinter architecture in other threads so I'll just add this here: I would love to see stepwells used in a Dragon Age setting. Imagine draning a pond of its water an finding steps leading to an underground catacomb or something similar.
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Post by theascendent on Jul 13, 2019 19:34:53 GMT
Do the Old Gods have genders? Or are such differences irrelevant to such beings? I am only asking because a High Dragon is always female and the males are Drakes, that just assuming that the Draconic forms are their true selves, and they are not beings who merely took the form of a Dragon.
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Post by yogsothoth on Jul 13, 2019 20:47:57 GMT
Do the Old Gods have genders? Or are such differences irrelevant to such beings? I am only asking because a High Dragon is always female and the males are Drakes, that just assuming that the Draconic forms are their true selves, and they are not beings who merely took the form of a Dragon. Razikale was said to be female, the rest were said to be male.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 14, 2019 17:22:28 GMT
Razikale was said to be female, the rest were said to be male.
This is debatable. Zazikel would appear to have changed gender when she changed from the Old Goddess of Freedom into the Old God of Chaos. (World of Thedas). So it is possible that this came about when the Imperium started to become a male dominated society.
Andoral was originally the Old God of Unity and only later became the God of Slaves. Andoralis was a mid-summer festival associated with marriage and coming of age, so it is possible that Andoral was originally seen as more of a fertility goddess and then, like Zazikel, swapped gender around the same time as they became the God of Slaves.
To some extent people have just assumed they were male because they are largely referred to as gods rather than gods and goddesses, but we have only a few actual examples of what their worshippers actually believed. We know for certain that Razikale was worshipped as a female, because of the ancient texts in the Frostback Basin, and it seems that Dumat was worshipped as a male, but I don't recall any other shrines or records of actual ancient worshippers for reference. Most codices are based off the writings of scholars in the south, particularly Chantry scholars, who in turn were influenced by Hessarian's Canticle of Silence but even there it is the priesthood whose gender is hinted at, not the gods themselves.
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Post by Ieldra on Jul 14, 2019 19:22:50 GMT
Do the Old Gods have genders? Or are such differences irrelevant to such beings? I am only asking because a High Dragon is always female and the males are Drakes, that just assuming that the Draconic forms are their true selves, and they are not beings who merely took the form of a Dragon. They might have a preferred gender, but it would be very odd if you could take dragon-form but not switch your sex.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 11, 2019 18:51:19 GMT
Do you think the new protagonist will be able to buy a slave? If Hawke could...
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 11, 2019 21:31:26 GMT
Andoral was originally the Old God of Unity and only later became the God of Slaves. Andoralis was a mid-summer festival associated with marriage and coming of age, so it is possible that Andoral was originally seen as more of a fertility goddess and then, like Zazikel, swapped gender around the same time as they became the God of Slaves. I always saw those less as the Old Gods actually being worshipped for different things so much as two sides of the same coin. After all, what do slaves, unity, and marriage have in common? Bonds: bonds between people, bonds whether they be bonds of servility or partnership. Even coming of age can be seen as joining society as an adult, joining a communal bond of sorts. Andoral thus is more a god of community, social ties and obligation. And Chaos can be read as a just the negative aspect of freedom. I had actually wondered if the “God of Slaves” and “God of Chaos” might have been Andrastian appellations.
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simit
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Post by simit on Sept 11, 2019 21:37:59 GMT
Do you think the new protagonist will be able to buy a slave? If Hawke could... Hawke never though, if your referring to the elven girl, h/she offered them a job
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Post by Iddy on Sept 11, 2019 21:56:24 GMT
Do you think the new protagonist will be able to buy a slave? If Hawke could... Hawke never though, if your referring to the elven girl, h/she offered them a job That wasn't the only option, tho
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by simit on Sept 11, 2019 22:20:50 GMT
Yip, been awhile an thought only options were to let go or hire
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