Tevinter Discussion Thread 2.0 - "Tevinter is coming"

"Prominent" doesn't necessarily = follower. Cullen was a prominent character, and a romance, but he didn't run around with us.

I'm playing DAO again. On this play, I'm determined to read codex entries as I get them. I hope I can make it...

So I'm going along and get the codex on Grey Wardens and it contains this bit:

If I knew that at one point, I had since forgotten. To me, it seems like an interesting tidbit. In my various fanfic and writing about Tevinter, I have such things as "Tevinter gave us Andraste" as a way for characters to highlight ways in which the Imperium, doing its nefarious deeds, helped the world. It seems I can add Grey Wardens as well, with the added counter that Thedas wouldn't have needed Wardens in the first place if the Seven hadn't broke into the Fade, creating darkspawn and the Blights. I like the dichotomy there.

Additionally, I like the implication that these are soporati soldiers, which places high historical value on Tevinter soporati. While there will have been mage soldiers, and are mages among the Wardens today, the text doesn't suggest that it was a group of only mages.

And finally, the codex also mentions that all four of the previous Blights originated in Tevinter and that, even today, there are sightings and attacks there, which, to my mind, puts added weight to the near constant problems the Imperium faces from various forces.

As far as I know, elves can be Laetans. But moving up in the world is a constant struggle as an elf in Tevinter, magical abilities or no.

Magical slaves remain slaves as far as I can tell, but they do have to have training so they don't bust out in demons and disrupt the household. They're nicknamed "Incaensor" - something dangerous but useful. Calpernia's backstory touches on what it's like to be a magic-wielding slave in Tevinter.

Dunno about Qunari Laetans. I'd imagine the prejudice is too high. I see Qunari slaves as laborers, body slaves, exotic pets... something to humiliate. Bull's banter touches on this:

Dorian: I'm surprised you never spent time in the Tevinter courts. They would adore you.
Iron Bull: I did. After a while, the saddle just got too heavy.

Also, does Tevinter come across as more patriarchal than most of the countries we've seen/heard of? Barring the Qunari and even then that word doesn't necessarily apply since they're weird. For example, do we know if there've been any female Archons? It makes a certain kind of sense, Tevinter seems to have set themselves up as a the antithesis of the southern Chantry, if we assume the Chantry's structure and just general yay Andrasteness played a role (a role, the fact that there don't seem to be any cultural practices or religious reasons to enforce man's domination over women is probably the more important reason) in its relative egalitarianism then could the same be said for a man-only Chantry influencing Tevinter in the opposite way? If there's never been a female Archon I am sooo making a Hillary Clinton to break that highest, hardest blood magic ceiling. 

EDIT:

Oh, also, does anyone have that outfit concept art? I think it was new (as in post DAI). It featured Antivan Crows (or people who stole their outfits) that looked a lot like what Zevran was wearing in WoT 2. 

I think it's a belief supported by the facts we've been given. All of the archons have been men, as have been the "Black" Divines. While there are female magisters, we don't know how many of those are in a similar position to Maevaris, that is, the sole heir of a house who is a woman. Keep in mind that they also do not allow women to fight in their martial forces, which is why Krem had to hide. In general, they seem less progressive than the rest of Thedas.

In a way, it makes sense, considering their history. While it's true they are the oldest human nation in Thedas, which makes it seem like they would have advanced further than the rest, they have also been isolated for centuries. The South wants nothing to do with them because of magic, slavery, their "perversion" of the Chant of Light, and the history relating to the origin of darkspawn and the Blights. At this point, they take it as a point of pride that they "go it alone," but are also suspicious and wary of outside influence. Without that outside influence from other cultures, their culture cannot grow and change; they are stagnant in their beliefs and rigid adherence to tradition, which has led to their decline.

Related, from my very first play of DAO I have always looked on Andrastianism, and its inherent matriarchy, as the reason southern Thedas is more progressive toward women. When the very foundation of your belief system is based around a woman, and the general populace is educated on those beliefs by women, it just seems the logical result. We can contrast this to our own (the big three) real-world religions, which are based on male figures and male heroes. Even though Catholicism has Mary as a central figure, she is still supplementary for Jesus himself; she literally delivered Jesus unto the world and was the vessel for God (a father figure), so even then the woman's role is dependent on the males in her life.

Tevinter has a unique role in Andrastianism, as it was a male archon, Hessarian, that killed her, who also persuaded another man, Andraste's husband, Maferath, to betray her. But at the pivotal moment, that same male archon showed her mercy and is the first to convert to the Chant of Light. It could be argued that the very foundations of Andrastianism were laid in Tevinter itself, by a male archon. When that is a part of your history, the male role is seen as superior (in addition to the normal sexist type of things, physical differences between men and women, etc). Drakon did his part to make the Chantry what it is today, but Hessarian came first. Indeed, the world would not have Andrastianism at all had it not been for Tevinter and Andraste's life as a slave.

That's the one, thanks. 


Oh yeah, it's definitely ridiculous that you'd go around dressed like that if you take yourself seriously as an assassin. Very OTT. But we don't know what role they'd be filling or even whether they are the crows, might just be a concept they liked and are reusing. It might also be an enemy faction we're fighting often, ie (from left to right) warrior, melee rogue, ranged rogue, mage. That'd bring up the question of why we'd be fighting the crows like they're some kind of muscle-producing faction that can just hurl people at you cuz that is not the vibe I get but it'd explain the outfits from a gameplay perspective, yes they're assassins but it'd look weird for the player to be fighting the average man on the street. 

Hmm.

I'd actually love to be fighting the average man on the street. It'd be much more assassiny to have you just walking casually on by and groups of peasants that have encircled you without you knowing attack than having a group of birdy fashionistas stalking towards you. Still not how I'd expect to fight an assassin's guild but w/e.


Yeah I like the potential role reversal of the family disappointment/shameful secret being the one without the earth shattering power. There's something almost more intuitive about it too that makes it fit better as character shaper. How exactly non-magical family is treated/viewed probably depends on how successfully you can breed for magic but I imagine a certain level of benign negligence/moving them to the margins of the family would always be present. A character that's the head of their Altus family despite being mundane would be an interesting NPC. 

I can get being tired of the human noble thing but, at the same time, it's hard to think of a place where your social standing would be as character/experience/opportunity defining as Tevinter. Okay, no that's a total lie there's Orzammar and Seheron but yeah. I suppose the dwarf could always take on the role of the noble in this instance? They're very well positioned for a life of intrigue and maneuvering needing to balance between the Magisters, Orzammar's rigidity and the merchant class they probably rely on to move supply. And they're treated as a foreign dignitary and presumably filthy rich.


I wouldn't hate this as an origin for everyone. I wish we had a list of stuff that had a resource allotment that the devs work from, like if you have races you can't have [x], [y] or [z] and if you have a variety of origins you can't have one playable origin. That kinda thing. 

One issue with having only one origin in Tevinter would be that you'd need to be creative to give your character radically different perspectives on things, and you'd maybe still need to rely on certain archetypes you'd rather not have had your character be otherwise. For example a former slave (as I would have to assume the player would be/come) being totally fine with slavery would probably (as in it's the most intuitive answer) be an asshole in a sort of "I got mine" kind of way (I'm planning one of these anyway but I could see why a lot of people wouldn't want to) or be painfully pragmatic (ie Tevinter requires its slaves, it's a question of necessity not humanity) or have been pampered beyond belief and not have experienced the excesses of what a slave could be exposed to (ie I had food, shelter and safety which is more than I can say of many of Minrathous' inhabitants. Also, sometimes my master would pet me and give me treats), in which case I would like the option to decide to continue being a slave.

Contrast that with an otherwise moral and upstanding nobleman who just has never had a reason to question the use of slaves, it's a kind of ignorance vs a willful or active engagement with the idea of slavery. It allows for progression/evolution on a topic you'd expect a lifelong slave to already have a pretty developed view on.


I wouldn't mind seeing a Rivaini Seer though maybe as a companion instead of an origin. 

If anyone can't tell from my multi-paragraph posts, I'm super excited at the prospect of finally getting to see Tevinter in the next game!

My post got eaten by bears.


Right there with you!  So many of my favorite characters are from up north (Tevinter, Seheron, Par Vollen, even Rivain and Antiva) and I can't wait to see it for myself. I mean, I try not to get too ahead of myself because there's been no official confirmation, but there are enough clues that I feel pretty confident.


Ooh, I like that idea. I always thought it'd be cool to play a distant cousin of, say... Danarius.

Tevinter party to celebrate our rise to power excitement:

Not sure I understand this...

The Tevinter Imperium existed long before Andraste, Andrastianism, the Chantry, or hell, even monotheism and the Maker faith (in that nation, anyway). The Chantry is is NO way responsible for Tevinter, in the past or present. They don't use religion to justify their expansion; they want more because it's more and they want it.

The Chantry that did the Exalted Marches against Tevinter as well, and all of that was under the Chantry founded by Drakon.

If anything, a Qunari should like the idea of an Exalted March because that's pretty much what they do when they invade a place.

Hmm, I suppose the Warden did technically begin in the Imperium, as the Anderfels were part of the Imperium at that point in time.

I always assumed that the initial Wardens were a contingent of Vint soldiers who went rogue and defied orders. But since the codex mentions they intentionally sought to accumulate any lore and information to defeat the darkspawn, what if they began as part of some Magisterium think-tank?

Would be cool to learn the Imperium supported the early Wardens (whether they were responsible for it or not), since they desperately would have wanted to see the darkspawn threat removed and some might have felt they needed to do something to help clean up their own mess.

A Tevinter Warden is a character I'd really want to see in future games, because their perspective would be fascinating. Would they question whether Chantry tale was true or propaganda? Or would they see blaming an entire nation for the actions of seven power-hungry lunatics is a major overreaction?

I desperately want a human background that makes us part of House Amladaris. What if that background has a story arc involving trying to restore our family name and/or prestige, after our relation to Corypheus was outed and lead to the House falling on hard times?

(Each background having a personal story arc would be something I'd love to see return in DA4, much like how each Warden had unique plot threads relating to their origin that often got revisited later in the game. Missed these personal touches in Inquisition, as stuff relating to our background was largely confined to the war table)

And you know that playing as a member of House Amladaris would earn a comment from Dorian, if we (hopefully) run into him again.

I doubt Dorian would judge us for our infamous relative though. With all the nobles intermarrying each other in Tevinter and Thedas, even he's probably distantly related to Corypheus from some ancestor several hundred years ago, much like with the Trevelyan Inq.