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Post by Catilina on Aug 8, 2018 23:04:44 GMT
Hawke's not a leader like an army officer. S/He a charismatic person who has some fighting skills. I'm not even sure, s/he wants to be a leader, or just enjoys the situation (or hates that). I'd argue that Hawke does kind of function as the ranking officer in a small squad during the game's battles. You don't have to hold rank for others to respect you as the authority in a tense situation. All it takes is for you to prove that you know what to do when they don't. And there's both wealth and fame in being a leader. Taking responsibility has always been heavily rewarded by those too cowardly or lazy to do it themselves. I haven't the faintest idea why you're having trouble admitting that Hawke is the effective leader of the gang. I don't know how many fights you've been involved in, but "fighting skills" don't mean as much as movies and television make out, at least not in smallish skirmishes like those in most RPGs. What matters instead is how aggressively you press your opponents' weaknesses, how collected and determined you are compared to them and how quickly you can organize to take advantage of their disorganization, disorienting and beating the fight out of them before they can compose themselves and do the same to you. The ones who win a skirmish are usually the party that gets the drop on the other. Failing that, it's the one that organizes itself quickest. Failing that, it's the one with the largest numbers. Failing that, it's the one most prepared and eager to draw blood. And only failing that is it the one with the most skilled fighters. There's no way in hell the DA2 party would realistically survive the game without someone quick-witted and ruthless firmly at the helm, regardless of how skilled each individual party member is supposed to be. I said: charismatic. It means s/e can achieve they get him/her seriously even if s/he makes idiot jokes. Yes, Hawke's a leader of the outlaw gang – but not like an army. And Hawke doesn't have any power over the others. They not even always loyal to him/her – depends. In fact, they have their own reason to join Hawke. This is why I like the DA2 and Hawke.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 8, 2018 23:46:39 GMT
I'd argue that Hawke does kind of function as the ranking officer in a small squad during the game's battles. You don't have to hold rank for others to respect you as the authority in a tense situation. All it takes is for you to prove that you know what to do when they don't. And there's both wealth and fame in being a leader. Taking responsibility has always been heavily rewarded by those too cowardly or lazy to do it themselves. I haven't the faintest idea why you're having trouble admitting that Hawke is the effective leader of the gang.
I don't know how many fights you've been involved in, but "fighting skills" don't mean as much as movies and television make out, at least not in smallish skirmishes like those in most RPGs. What matters instead is how aggressively you press your opponents' weaknesses, how collected and determined you are compared to them and how quickly you can organize to take advantage of their disorganization, disorienting and beating the fight out of them before they can compose themselves and do the same to you.
The ones who win a skirmish are usually the party that gets the drop on the other. Failing that, it's the one that organizes itself quickest. Failing that, it's the one with the largest numbers. Failing that, it's the one most prepared and eager to draw blood. And only failing that is it the one with the most skilled fighters. There's no way in hell the DA2 party would realistically survive the game without someone quick-witted and ruthless firmly at the helm, regardless of how skilled each individual party member is supposed to be. I said: charismatic. It means s/e can achieve they get him/her seriously even if s/he makes idiot jokes. Yes, Hawke's a leader of the outlaw gang – but not like an army. And Hawke doesn't have any power over the others. They not even always loyal to him/her – depends. In fact, they have their own reason to join Hawke. This is why I like the DA2 and Hawke. Charisma isn't some magical force that makes others respect you regardless of how you behave. You get it by learning how to appeal to people's instincts and developing those habits. How to carry yourself so you look on top of things. How to talk in a volume and tone that commands attention without making you look like an ass. You don't mystically appeal to people simply because you have it. Respect and trust still have to be earned on some level. And you're dead wrong. Hawke can consistently make decisions that run entirely counter to each individual's principles and natures, and the worst they do is complain a bit. You can have Fenris slaughter templars and qunari left and right to defend apostates and blood mages. Anders will kill his fellow mages for templar coin if you ask him to. You can make Aveline your accomplice in one underhanded crime after another for pure profit. Gentle Merril will follow you around like a puppy and turn relatively innocent people to stone on your command. They may not like it, they may even hate you a bit for it, but they'll do it without hesitation. Why? Because you say so, because you're their leader and because they trust that in the end you know what you're doing. If Hawke wasn't an authoritative person, none of that would be even remotely possible.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 8, 2018 23:59:44 GMT
I said: charismatic. It means s/e can achieve they get him/her seriously even if s/he makes idiot jokes. Yes, Hawke's a leader of the outlaw gang – but not like an army. And Hawke doesn't have any power over the others. They not even always loyal to him/her – depends. In fact, they have their own reason to join Hawke. This is why I like the DA2 and Hawke. Charisma isn't some magical force that makes others respect you regardless of how you behave. You get it by learning how to appeal to people's instincts and developing those habits. How to carry yourself so you look on top of things. How to talk in a volume and tone that commands attention without making you look like an ass. You don't mystically appeal to people simply because you have it. Respect and trust still have to be earned on some level. And you're dead wrong. Hawke can consistently make decisions that run entirely counter to each individual's principles and natures, and the worst they do is complain a bit. You can have Fenris slaughter templars and qunari left and right to defend apostates and blood mages. Anders will kill his fellow mages for templar coin if you ask him to. You can make Aveline your accomplice in one underhanded crime after another for pure profit. Gentle Merril will follow you around like a puppy and turn relatively innocent people to stone on your command. They may not like it, they may even hate you a bit for it, but they'll do it without hesitation. Why? Because you say so, because you're their leader and because they trust that in the end you know what you're doing. If Hawke wasn't an authoritative person, none of that would be even remotely possible. What personality fits then Hawke? To be "believable"? To become sarcastic/charming doesn't mean, Hawke's not a charismatic leader – not even that not a tyrant!
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Post by obbie1984 on Aug 16, 2018 22:11:55 GMT
It took me some time to realize it, but I found out I am a fan of Hawke as a character. I like the way the game handles Hawke's personality for the most part. Like Mass Effect, I like both genders for Hawke. However, in ME, I slightly prefer broshep, but in DA2 I prefer default female Hawke.
This is mainly because I feel the romances for straight guys in DA2 are a bit weak. I don't like Merrill or Isabella all that much. I don't do a romance for my female Hawke, but I think Fenris is the best written romance for her. And my opinion on Anders has changed a tiny bit because he can actually be convinced to stop his plan by a romanced Hawke.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 16, 2018 23:12:19 GMT
It took me some time to realize it, but I found out I am a fan of Hawke as a character. I like the way the game handles Hawke's personality for the most part. Like Mass Effect, I like both genders for Hawke. However, in ME, I slightly prefer broshep, but in DA2 I prefer default female Hawke. This is mainly because I feel the romances for straight guys in DA2 are a bit weak. I don't like Merrill or Isabella all that much. I don't do a romance for my female Hawke, but I think Fenris is the best written romance for her. And my opinion on Anders has changed a tiny bit because he can actually be convinced to stop his plan by a romanced Hawke.Oh, I don't like it. And don't even know, he was convinced. He's brilliant the last Questioning Beliefs in the rivalry –even Justice's great!– but Hawke so naively stupid –at least the blue answers– it hurt me hard. I would never able to say these nonsenses: "try the peaceful solution", "Elthina'll be reasonable", "Meredith will retreat"... "you must behave well to prove the mages are worthy"... Oh my, holy naivety! "Yes... time...", he said – I think, Anders cried inside and called Justice. And Justice was so patient – only yelled one to defend Anders, and retreated. (And the whole conversation happens only if Hawke distracted Elthina... Why would do such a thing, if s/he doesn't trust in Anders? And how started to not trust him, if s/he accepted the quest? I hate the rivalmance with him. It's not romance, just sex, dominance fight and unhealthy obsession. (I know, I'm in minority with this opinion.) But you're right about Fenris, his romance one of the best romances.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 17, 2018 13:03:27 GMT
It took me some time to realize it, but I found out I am a fan of Hawke as a character. I like the way the game handles Hawke's personality for the most part. Like Mass Effect, I like both genders for Hawke. However, in ME, I slightly prefer broshep, but in DA2 I prefer default female Hawke. This is mainly because I feel the romances for straight guys in DA2 are a bit weak. I don't like Merrill or Isabella all that much. I don't do a romance for my female Hawke, but I think Fenris is the best written romance for her. And my opinion on Anders has changed a tiny bit because he can actually be convinced to stop his plan by a romanced Hawke.Oh, I don't like it. And don't even know, he was convinced. He's brilliant the last Questioning Beliefs in the rivalry –even Justice's great!– but Hawke so naively stupid –at least the blue answers– it hurt me hard. I would never able to say these nonsenses: "try the peaceful solution", "Elthina'll be reasonable", "Meredith will retreat"... "you must behave well to prove the mages are worthy"... Oh my, holy naivety! "Yes... time...", he said – I think, Anders cried inside and called Justice. And Justice was so patient – only yelled one to defend Anders, and retreated. (And the whole conversation happens only if Hawke distracted Elthina... Why would do such a thing, if s/he doesn't trust in Anders? And how started to not trust him, if s/he accepted the quest? I hate the rivalmance with him. It's not romance, just sex, dominance fight and unhealthy obsession. (I know, I'm in minority with this opinion.) But you're right about Fenris, his romance one of the best romances. Eh, Anders says the same thing. After almost killing a mage girl, he asks Hawke: "How can I fight for mages when I represent the worst that freedom brings?" Do you think he is naive too?
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Post by Catilina on Aug 17, 2018 14:24:38 GMT
Oh, I don't like it. And don't even know, he was convinced. He's brilliant the last Questioning Beliefs in the rivalry –even Justice's great!– but Hawke so naively stupid –at least the blue answers– it hurt me hard. I would never able to say these nonsenses: "try the peaceful solution", "Elthina'll be reasonable", "Meredith will retreat"... "you must behave well to prove the mages are worthy"... Oh my, holy naivety! "Yes... time...", he said – I think, Anders cried inside and called Justice. And Justice was so patient – only yelled one to defend Anders, and retreated. (And the whole conversation happens only if Hawke distracted Elthina... Why would do such a thing, if s/he doesn't trust in Anders? And how started to not trust him, if s/he accepted the quest? I hate the rivalmance with him. It's not romance, just sex, dominance fight and unhealthy obsession. (I know, I'm in minority with this opinion.)
But you're right about Fenris, his romance one of the best romances. Eh, Anders says the same thing. After almost killing a mage girl, he asks Hawke: "How can I fight for mages when I represent the worst that freedom brings?" Do you think he is naive too? Yes, indeed. The Circle shaped him as well – even if he refuses the Circle, as prison. He's wrong about it – and at the end he knows it well. They don't need to prove anything, because its impossibile to fight against the prejudices with "good behaviour".
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Post by Iddy on Aug 17, 2018 18:03:12 GMT
Eh, Anders says the same thing. After almost killing a mage girl, he asks Hawke: "How can I fight for mages when I represent the worst that freedom brings?" Do you think he is naive too? Yes, indeed. The Circle shaped him as well – even if he refuses the Circle, as prison. He's wrong about it – and at the end he knows it well. They don't need to prove anything, because its impossibile to fight against the prejudices with "good behaviour".
Sadly, none of Hawke's responses reflect that belief. The only options are: "Mages ARE dangerous. That's why it has been so hard. Prove that you can control your powers" (diplomatic). "You do remind me of the scary stories people tell to keep apprentices in line" (sarcastic} And agreeing that Anders is a monster in the aggressive dialogue.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 17, 2018 18:16:00 GMT
Yes, indeed. The Circle shaped him as well – even if he refuses the Circle, as prison. He's wrong about it – and at the end he knows it well. They don't need to prove anything, because its impossibile to fight against the prejudices with "good behaviour".
Sadly, none of Hawke's responses reflect that belief. The only options are: "Mages ARE dangerous. That's why it has been so hard. Prove that you can control your powers" (diplomatic). "You do remind me of the scary stories people tell to keep apprentices in line" (sarcastic} And agreeing that Anders is a monster in the aggressive dialogue. I agree, this is why I like the sarcastic one. While I don't aggree with the blue answer's "prove" part, it can be supportive/inspirative in the eyes of Anders, and good for a non-mage Hawke. At the moment Anders frightened.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 17, 2018 18:45:49 GMT
Sadly, none of Hawke's responses reflect that belief. The only options are: "Mages ARE dangerous. That's why it has been so hard. Prove that you can control your powers" (diplomatic). "You do remind me of the scary stories people tell to keep apprentices in line" (sarcastic} And agreeing that Anders is a monster in the aggressive dialogue. I agree, this is why I like the sarcastic one. While I don't aggree with the blue answer's "prove" part, it can be supportive/inspirative in the eyes of Anders, and good for a non-mage Hawke. At the moment Anders frightened.
The sarcastic one is basically saying "You really are like a monster, ha ha". Not really different from the others.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 17, 2018 19:02:00 GMT
I agree, this is why I like the sarcastic one. While I don't aggree with the blue answer's "prove" part, it can be supportive/inspirative in the eyes of Anders, and good for a non-mage Hawke. At the moment Anders frightened.
The sarcastic one is basically saying "You really are like a monster, ha ha". Not really different from the others. Of course. But this says to me, no matter, what's you're. Don't care about. It's perhaps a dark humour, but not cruel, just watch Hawke's facial expression. (And it fits most of my Hawkes...)
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Post by Iddy on Aug 23, 2018 13:57:41 GMT
Considering Cassandra's hero worship towards Hawke, I think she would be very disappointed if they met depending on how you played him/her.
In my case, I think she would react like "I should've figured there is a reason why Varric and the Champion get along..."
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 24, 2018 1:58:15 GMT
I was super bummed out that we didn't get to see Hawke and Cassandra meet.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2018 12:28:03 GMT
I was super bummed out that we didn't get to see Hawke and Cassandra meet. ...and Cullen...
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 24, 2018 14:07:23 GMT
I was super bummed out that we didn't get to see Hawke and Cassandra meet. Cassandra:
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Post by Iddy on Aug 24, 2018 14:31:13 GMT
I was super bummed out that we didn't get to see Hawke and Cassandra meet. Cassandra: She wants to seek his truth.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2018 17:17:21 GMT
I was super bummed out that we didn't get to see Hawke and Cassandra meet. Cassandra: Hawke: I'm Hawke. Cassandra: Hawke is 7 feet tall! Hawke: Yes... S/H kills men, by the hundreds, and if he were here, s/he consumes the Templars/Qunari with fireballs from his/her eyes, and bolts of lightning from his/her arse (hmmm – this, however, can be true... even if not from his/her arse...)
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Post by Iddy on Aug 29, 2018 12:09:51 GMT
Default FemHawke arguably is the best looking woman in the series. I think the only other one who comes close is DAI Leliana.
On another note, I do find it a bit frustrating with aggressive Hawke threatens someone and they're completely unimpressed. Makes it hard to play a fearsome killer.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 31, 2018 22:11:09 GMT
This is my fav pic of Hawke. He just looks so cute here.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 3, 2018 12:10:32 GMT
While it's cool that Hawke got a statue, it bothers me that it portrays him/her as a warrior.
When you're playing a mage, it just looks like they're trying to hide that fact.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 3, 2018 12:14:49 GMT
While it's cool that Hawke got a statue, it bothers me that it portrays him/her as a warrior. When you're playing a mage, it just looks like they're trying to hide that fact. Ofc. A mage can't be a hero. Just like an elf. Shartan deleted from the Canticle.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on Sept 3, 2018 13:42:39 GMT
Pff. Everybody always complains about mage issues, but what about our poor rogues? No statue depicting them kicking Arishok while doing backward leap. Wasted opportunity for the coolest statue ever.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Sept 3, 2018 15:23:19 GMT
I put it down to lack of resources. I played a rogue recently in my new canon run, and yeah, it was weird to see the warrior statue.
They could have done all sorts of fun things with the flame, too. For the mage, it could be from their hand, or the staff, depending on the stance. For a dagger rogue, similar to the warrior, but with one dagger raised. For a bow rogue, you could have a drawn bow, with the flame coming from the arrow. But that's at least four different statues, which eats resources.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 3, 2018 16:54:39 GMT
I put it down to lack of resources. I played a rogue recently in my new canon run, and yeah, it was weird to see the warrior statue. They could have done all sorts of fun things with the flame, too. For the mage, it could be from their hand, or the staff, depending on the stance. For a dagger rogue, similar to the warrior, but with one dagger raised. For a bow rogue, you could have a drawn bow, with the flame coming from the arrow. But that's at least four different statues, which eats resources. Let's just headcanon it away.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 10, 2018 11:13:42 GMT
I really love that moment when Hawke uses reverse psychology to boost Aveline's resolve. She beats him up and he's like "YES! That's more like it!". It's the kinda thing that makes a protagonist memorable.
On a different note, I've been wondering if Hawke is Andrastian by default or if that is left open to interpretation. I'd like to play an atheist.
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