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Post by masterwarderz on Mar 1, 2017 21:29:42 GMT
It ruins and corrupts everything tbh. It gave Thor boob's for Christ sake.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 22:13:25 GMT
It ruins and corrupts everything tbh. It gave Thor boob's for Christ sake. No, it let Jane the woman he loved pick up the Hammer and assume his role as a guardian of Asgard. The problem with those comics isn't that Thor has boobs its that they poorly written ,Jane as Thor is fine. People are more worried about the colour of the skin or the gender than if the writing is actually good.
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Post by masterwarderz on Mar 1, 2017 23:06:56 GMT
It ruins and corrupts everything tbh. It gave Thor boob's for Christ sake. No, it let Jane the woman he loved pick up the Hammer and assume his role as a guardian of Asgard. It gave Thor boobs. It may not be a direct genderbend but genderbend it is.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Mar 2, 2017 2:23:28 GMT
If ancient Egypt was part of the inspiration for the Gondorian people then it makes sense for there to be blacks among them. The same is true of ancient Rome. The empire stretched over much of the Old World which included large parts of Africa. Also, what kind of sense does it make for every black person in ancient Egypt to be a slave? Do you seriously believe that a prosperous civilization wouldn't attract people from various surrounding lands to live, work, raise families, ply their trades, and sell their goods there? An argument can even be made that the ancient Egyptians were black themselves. Well, the massive desert and generally hazardous environment surrounding said civilization to the west and southwest was a bit of a deterrent. In all seriousness, from what little I know the early Egyptians traded with Nubians, being one of the few neighbors close enough, they probably were plenty there. As to whether they were black themselves, hard to say. I'm hesitant to define "blackness". Their ancestors came from Africa, apparently from the western desert, but I can't say how closely they resembled sub-Saharan Africans in appearance. Certainly there may have been a demographic shift as the civilization grew closer to the Mediterranean and interacted with the emerging Mesopotamian civilizations. Though I suppose I don't like talking about Egypt as an "African" civilization because that suggests a sort of pan-African identity or culture that is ahistorical and ignores that one of the most striking things about Ancient Egypt is that it sprung up independently. How is ancient Egypt not African? Was it not located on the continent of Africa? I don't understand your comment. It doesn't suggest pan anything to me. Sprung up independently of what? Nevermind lol i don't want to derail the thread.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 2, 2017 2:46:54 GMT
Well, the massive desert and generally hazardous environment surrounding said civilization to the west and southwest was a bit of a deterrent. In all seriousness, from what little I know the early Egyptians traded with Nubians, being one of the few neighbors close enough, they probably were plenty there. As to whether they were black themselves, hard to say. I'm hesitant to define "blackness". Their ancestors came from Africa, apparently from the western desert, but I can't say how closely they resembled sub-Saharan Africans in appearance. Certainly there may have been a demographic shift as the civilization grew closer to the Mediterranean and interacted with the emerging Mesopotamian civilizations. Though I suppose I don't like talking about Egypt as an "African" civilization because that suggests a sort of pan-African identity or culture that is ahistorical and ignores that one of the most striking things about Ancient Egypt is that it sprung up independently. How is ancient Egypt not African? Was it not located on the continent of Africa? I don't understand your comment. It doesn't suggest pan anything to me. Sprung up independently of what? Nevermind lol i don't want to derail the thread. Africa in terms of geography sure, but they were also quite geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the continent for the most part and historically came to have far more significant contact with Mesopatamia and Mediterranean civilizations than the rest of Africa. By independently, I mean it sprung up and grew in isolation without being built upon other civilizations, in this they were much like the earliest mesopatamian civilizations. That's what I mean.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 2, 2017 3:06:21 GMT
Gondor isnt based off Egypt.... and blacks in ancient Egypt were Nubian slaves. In part, though, it is. Tolkien even said in one of his letters that the crown of the kings of Gondor resembled the double crown of the pharaohs of ancient Egypt. Look, I'm as much a purist as anyone, particularly when it comes to Tolkien. To this day I'm p*ssed that the Scouring of the Shire wasn't filmed for the movies. And it was a mistake to remove Glorfindal for Arwen. But this is one aspect that's really a minor detail. It's at least theoretically possible, especially in Gondor's southern provinces, which had more contact with Easterlings (heck Umbar used to be ruled by Gondor!) Easterlings referred to the men of Rhun who were north east of mordor............some purist you are eh?
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 2, 2017 3:09:09 GMT
Well, the massive desert and generally hazardous environment surrounding said civilization to the west and southwest was a bit of a deterrent. In all seriousness, from what little I know the early Egyptians traded with Nubians, being one of the few neighbors close enough, they probably were plenty there. As to whether they were black themselves, hard to say. I'm hesitant to define "blackness". Their ancestors came from Africa, apparently from the western desert, but I can't say how closely they resembled sub-Saharan Africans in appearance. Certainly there may have been a demographic shift as the civilization grew closer to the Mediterranean and interacted with the emerging Mesopotamian civilizations. Though I suppose I don't like talking about Egypt as an "African" civilization because that suggests a sort of pan-African identity or culture that is ahistorical and ignores that one of the most striking things about Ancient Egypt is that it sprung up independently. How is ancient Egypt not African? Was it not located on the continent of Africa? I don't understand your comment. It doesn't suggest pan anything to me. Sprung up independently of what? Nevermind lol i don't want to derail the thread. its not black african thats for sure. And most nubians in egypt were actually slaves, pictographs depict this and the ancient Egyptians themselves despised the nubians again according to numerous pictoral relief evidence showing red colored egyptians smiting black nubians. Egypt was certainily ruled by blacks(nubians) but they were more despised than the previous hyksos conquerors or the latter assyrians and persians. Modern-day egyptians are actually more black today than ancient egyptians 3000 years ago and this is inpart due to arab/islamic slave trade of sub saharan africa.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 2, 2017 3:14:38 GMT
In part, though, it is. Tolkien even said in one of his letters that the crown of the kings of Gondor resembled the double crown of the pharaohs of ancient Egypt. Look, I'm as much a purist as anyone, particularly when it comes to Tolkien. To this day I'm p*ssed that the Scouring of the Shire wasn't filmed for the movies. And it was a mistake to remove Glorfindal for Arwen. But this is one aspect that's really a minor detail. It's at least theoretically possible, especially in Gondor's southern provinces, which had more contact with Easterlings (heck Umbar used to be ruled by Gondor!) Easterlings referred to the men of Rhun who were north east of mordor............some purist you are eh? You are right, I meant the Southrons.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 2, 2017 3:33:10 GMT
Easterlings referred to the men of Rhun who were north east of mordor............some purist you are eh? You are right, I meant the Southrons. and southrons/haradrim/umbarians etc... were essentially based off middle-easterners and north africans.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 26, 2017 7:55:01 GMT
Why in the world are y'all obsessed with us? It's getting pretty creepy yet amusing.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 29, 2017 19:17:55 GMT
A mix of Italy and (ancient) Egypt, apparently. Well if ancient Egypt was part of the inspiration for the Gondorian people then it would make sense to have blacks among them including arabs and whites. So unless Iakus is wrong, maybe you should rethink your stance TC. Unless you're counting slaves or immigrants into the kingdom, the ancient Egyptians weren't black.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 29, 2017 19:27:37 GMT
It ruins and corrupts everything tbh. It gave Thor boob's for Christ sake. No, it let Jane the woman he loved pick up the Hammer and assume his role as a guardian of Asgard. The problem with those comics isn't that Thor has boobs its that they poorly written ,Jane as Thor is fine. People are more worried about the colour of the skin or the gender than if the writing is actually good. That comic is fucking retarded. It retconned Thor's birth name into a given title, because whoever wrote those books is an idiot. Literally, when Thor lost Mjolnir, he was no longer known as Thor, but as "Odinson", which is his last name, while Jane became Thor. Too bad other people have taken up Mjolnir before without stealing Thor's identity, like fucking Beta Ray Bill and even Captain America. Neither of them spontaneously *became* Thor when they wielded his hammer.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2017 19:32:26 GMT
You are right, I meant the Southrons. and southrons/haradrim/umbarians etc... were essentially based off middle-easterners and north africans. And Egypt is...
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2017 19:36:02 GMT
No, it let Jane the woman he loved pick up the Hammer and assume his role as a guardian of Asgard. The problem with those comics isn't that Thor has boobs its that they poorly written ,Jane as Thor is fine. People are more worried about the colour of the skin or the gender than if the writing is actually good. That comic is fucking retarded. It retconned Thor's birth name into a given title, because whoever wrote those books is an idiot. Literally, when Thor lost Mjolnir, he was no longer known as Thor, but as "Odinson", which is his last name, while Jane became Thor. Too bad other people have taken up Mjolnir before without stealing Thor's identity, like fucking Beta Ray Bill and even Captain America. Neither of them spontaneously *became* Thor when they wielded his hammer. Heh, technically, Jane isn't even the first woman to wield Mjolnir (depending on how canon you consider it). There was a Marvel/DC crossover event where Wonder Woman wielded the hammer
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Mar 29, 2017 20:44:26 GMT
Well if ancient Egypt was part of the inspiration for the Gondorian people then it would make sense to have blacks among them including arabs and whites. So unless Iakus is wrong, maybe you should rethink your stance TC. Unless you're counting slaves or immigrants into the kingdom, the ancient Egyptians weren't black. *shrugs* Okay
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 29, 2017 22:35:25 GMT
Unless you're counting slaves or immigrants into the kingdom, the ancient Egyptians weren't black. *shrugs* Okay Not sure what you're shrugging for. We know for a scientific fact that the ancient Egyptians (and by extension, modern day Egyptians with family lineages confined to the Nile delta) were not black. The darker colors that people most commonly associate as "black" originate from the Western regions of Africa, which are an entire continent away from Egypt. The ancient Egyptians being black makes about as much sense as the Mohawk Indians being Latino, just because they share a continent with the ancient Aztecs. The ancient Egyptians would have been closer to modern day Arabs in terms of ethnicity than black Africans.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Mar 30, 2017 1:25:41 GMT
Not sure what you're shrugging for. We know for a scientific fact that the ancient Egyptians (and by extension, modern day Egyptians with family lineages confined to the Nile delta) were not black. The darker colors that people most commonly associate as "black" originate from the Western regions of Africa, which are an entire continent away from Egypt. The ancient Egyptians being black makes about as much sense as the Mohawk Indians being Latino, just because they share a continent with the ancient Aztecs. The ancient Egyptians would have been closer to modern day Arabs in terms of ethnicity than black Africans. *shrugs* Okay
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 19:10:55 GMT
Not sure what you're shrugging for. We know for a scientific fact that the ancient Egyptians (and by extension, modern day Egyptians with family lineages confined to the Nile delta) were not black. The darker colors that people most commonly associate as "black" originate from the Western regions of Africa, which are an entire continent away from Egypt. The ancient Egyptians being black makes about as much sense as the Mohawk Indians being Latino, just because they share a continent with the ancient Aztecs. The ancient Egyptians would have been closer to modern day Arabs in terms of ethnicity than black Africans. But even so, you cited "slaves and immigrants" as exceptions. Now, GOndor didn't practice slavery, but why not immigrants? Particularly since Umbar used to be part of Gondor.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 19:22:15 GMT
Not sure what you're shrugging for. We know for a scientific fact that the ancient Egyptians (and by extension, modern day Egyptians with family lineages confined to the Nile delta) were not black. The darker colors that people most commonly associate as "black" originate from the Western regions of Africa, which are an entire continent away from Egypt. The ancient Egyptians being black makes about as much sense as the Mohawk Indians being Latino, just because they share a continent with the ancient Aztecs. The ancient Egyptians would have been closer to modern day Arabs in terms of ethnicity than black Africans. But even so, you cited "slaves and immigrants" as exceptions. Now, GOndor didn't practice slavery, but why not immigrants? Particularly since Umbar used to be part of Gondor. I'm not talking about Middle-earth, I'm talking about real-Earth. Were the mentions of Africans, Aztecs, and Egyptians not enough of an indicator?
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 19:43:04 GMT
But even so, you cited "slaves and immigrants" as exceptions. Now, GOndor didn't practice slavery, but why not immigrants? Particularly since Umbar used to be part of Gondor. I'm not talking about Middle-earth, I'm talking about real-Earth. Were the mentions of Africans, Aztecs, and Egyptians not enough of an indicator? We were comparing Gondor with Egypt as a way to justify black (or at least dark skinned people) among its populace. There was dispute that since ancient Egyptians were not, so far as we know, black, that the comparison doesn't work, since only slaves or immigrants would be black My counter was that since Umbar was once a province of Gondor, and Umbar shares a border with the Haradrim, then immigration is entirely plausible.
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 20:54:58 GMT
I'm not talking about Middle-earth, I'm talking about real-Earth. Were the mentions of Africans, Aztecs, and Egyptians not enough of an indicator? We were comparing Gondor with Egypt as a way to justify black (or at least dark skinned people) among its populace. There was dispute that since ancient Egyptians were not, so far as we know, black, that the comparison doesn't work, since only slaves or immigrants would be black My counter was that since Umbar was once a province of Gondor, and Umbar shares a border with the Haradrim, then immigration is entirely plausible. I never once said that Gondor couldn't be partly inspired by Egypt. I never said anything about Gondor *at all* until now. The crux of my previous posts was that the ancient Egyptians weren't black, I never cared how that related to Gondor.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 20:56:39 GMT
We were comparing Gondor with Egypt as a way to justify black (or at least dark skinned people) among its populace. There was dispute that since ancient Egyptians were not, so far as we know, black, that the comparison doesn't work, since only slaves or immigrants would be black My counter was that since Umbar was once a province of Gondor, and Umbar shares a border with the Haradrim, then immigration is entirely plausible. I never once said that Gondor couldn't be partly inspired by Egypt. I never said anything about Gondor *at all* until now. The crux of my previous posts was that the ancient Egyptians weren't black, I never cared how that related to Gondor. Apologies, then
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Post by o Ventus on Mar 30, 2017 20:58:01 GMT
While we're on the topic of Tolkien, I want to see a faithful movie adaptation of Children of Húrin, as well as perhaps a Netflix miniseries sort of treatment for the Silmarillion.
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Post by Warrick on May 31, 2017 2:12:21 GMT
It makes no sense but people protesting it are funny.
They made a Harry Potter play and cast a black girl for Hermione. Then JK Rowling insisted she never mentioned her skin colour in the books (she did). It drove people crazy.
Or when they cast Idris Elba as Thor. And he even hated playing the role.
I'm thinking maybe they should adapt books and comics with black characters instead of making white characters black. Everyone liked The Color Purple for example. I think it's a better option for representation, to use original material that is black from its conception. But if they want to cast Rihanna as Galadriel, well it's their gig. They have a right to do whatever they like.
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