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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 5, 2019 18:15:58 GMT
As I said before, you are wrong. Simple as that. *shrugs* It's more a question of one's personal suspension of disbelief than a right or wrong thing. But, sure, if you feel that way. Actually, I was stating what the creators of the character said regarding the matter. Sure you might not have the suspension of disbelief for it, but objectively she isn't how you say she is on the subject. The discussion isn't really about her preferences, it's more about what kind of romance would actually be convenient and healthy for her. And how smooth and free of difficulties and controversy the pairing is presented as in the game, which is slightly implausible if she publicly declared her love for, say, a Qunari mage. I sadly do have to agree that it seems more plausible that for non-human Inquisitors, the more "socially acceptable" route would have been for Josephine to enter into a marriage of convenience with Otranto, with the agreement that both parties were free to pursue other lovers. Vivienne's situation is how it should have played out for Josephine with a non-human and/or mage Inquisitor.
As Vivienne points out, society would never tolerate a mage like her being married to Duke Bastien, a member of the illustrious Council of Heralds. But as his official mistress, no-one batted an eye and she was freely welcome among the Orlesian court.
Again, no. Besides the fact that being with the Inquisitor, regardless of race or sex, is a much more advantageous position for the Montilyets than Otranto offered Josephine as a person was clearly not someone who would like that hence why she was trying to find a solution.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 5, 2019 19:06:03 GMT
Actually, I was stating what the creators of the character said regarding the matter. Sure you might not have the suspension of disbelief for it, but objectively she isn't how you say she is on the subject. We're not discussing how she feels about the Inquisitor, just what we think fits her situation best and would probably make her the happiest in the long run because the relationship would be simpler and cause her less trouble. Seriously, nobody is disputing that she's capable of loving a nonhuman or female Inquisitor as much as a human guy. That's not the issue. Those statements are lovely, but they don't address what we're talking about at all. If you've decided to take their word that she's entirely without prejudice in her love to further mean that the relationship is ultimately going to be exactly as happy and healthy between her and a Qunari as between her and a Trevelyan then that's fine. But that's an assumption on your part, not something the creators explicitly said, and I don't share your view. Something as massively controversial as an interspecies love between public figures is bound to have tensions and obstacles that others don't. And in my experience unnecessary tensions and obstacles aren't great for any relationship.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 5, 2019 19:25:48 GMT
Actually, I was stating what the creators of the character said regarding the matter. Sure you might not have the suspension of disbelief for it, but objectively she isn't how you say she is on the subject. We're not discussing how she feels about the Inquisitor, just what we think fits her situation best and would probably make her the happiest in the long run because the relationship would be simpler and cause her less trouble. Seriously, nobody is disputing that she's capable of loving a nonhuman or female Inquisitor as much as a human guy. That's not the issue. Those statements are lovely, but they don't address what we're talking about at all. If you've decided to take their word that she's entirely without prejudice in her love to further mean that the relationship is ultimately going to be exactly as happy and healthy between her and a Qunari as between her and a Trevelyan then that's fine. But that's an assumption on your part, not something the creators explicitly said, and I don't share your view. Something as massively controversial as an interspecies love between public figures is bound to have tensions and obstacles that others don't. And in my experience unnecessary tensions and obstacles aren't great for any relationship. And I’m saying that they countered exactly what you are suggesting. There is no assumption on my part, since this is not the first time this discussion has happened and back then the devs weighed in with exactly what I’ve been saying now. Don’t agree? Well too bad. Besides, by the end none of it matters since neither are public figures. She takes over her family business and the Inquisitor lives with her and her family out of the public eye which also helps with their mission with the secret Inquisition.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 5, 2019 20:23:23 GMT
And I’m saying that they countered exactly what you are suggesting. There is no assumption on my part, since this is not the first time this discussion has happened and back then the devs weighed in with exactly what I’ve been saying now. Don’t agree? Well too bad. Besides, by the end none of it matters since neither are public figures. She takes over her family business and the Inquisitor lives with her and her family out of the public eye which also helps with their mission with the secret Inquisition. No they didn't. All I've heard so far is that the creators decided that Josephine falls just as much in love with a Qunari or Elven or Dwarven Inquisitor as a human one, which nobody is disputing. None of the creator statements you've alluded to has said anything about the entire world loving it just as much and that having no impact whatsoever on the relationship's equilibrium down the line, which is the notion that we find pretty unbelievable. Unless you're holding some quote back that specifically addresses how the relationship affects Josephine's and her family's reputations, or states that she and the Inquisitor literally lived happily ever after without ever facing any backlash over their pairing, then it really seems like we're talking about two completely different things. Don't know where you're getting that image of her and the Inquisitor living "out of the public eye". Her romanced epilogue doesn't mention anything of the sort, and I certainly can't imagine her work - or her personality for that matter - allowing for it. I'd want my Josephine to have a blast hosting exquisite banquets for her neighbors and business partners, dancing ten different waltzes with me wearing gorgeous outfits in front of all her approving friends in enormous ballrooms and getting all the adoration in the world for contributing to charities and local festivities around the winter solstice and harvest time. Without her having to live with people muttering stupid and vicious rumors behind her back, or her children's rights being called into question for not being entirely human. Don't forget that you're the one who got on our case about how we view her prospects with the Inquisitor, not the other way around. You're welcome to liberal interpretations of and extrapolations from those quotes you're talking about, but that doesn't make those interpretations and extrapolations canon, or us wrong for not sharing them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 5, 2019 20:58:07 GMT
And I’m saying that they countered exactly what you are suggesting. There is no assumption on my part, since this is not the first time this discussion has happened and back then the devs weighed in with exactly what I’ve been saying now. Don’t agree? Well too bad. Besides, by the end none of it matters since neither are public figures. She takes over her family business and the Inquisitor lives with her and her family out of the public eye which also helps with their mission with the secret Inquisition. No they didn't. All I've heard so far is that the creators decided that Josephine falls just as much in love with a Qunari or Elven or Dwarven Inquisitor as a human one, which nobody is disputing. None of the creator statements you've alluded to has said anything about the entire world loving it just as much and that having no impact whatsoever on the relationship's equilibrium down the line, which is the notion that we find pretty unbelievable. Unless you're holding some quote back that specifically addresses how the relationship affects Josephine's and her family's reputations, or states that she and the Inquisitor literally lived happily ever after without ever facing any backlash over their pairing, then it really seems like we're talking about two completely different things. Don't know where you're getting that image of her and the Inquisitor living "out of the public eye". Her romanced epilogue doesn't mention anything of the sort, and I certainly can't imagine her work - or her personality for that matter - allowing for it. I'd want my Josephine to have a blast hosting exquisite banquets for her neighbors and business partners, dancing ten different waltzes with me wearing gorgeous outfits in front of all her approving friends in enormous ballrooms and getting all the adoration in the world for contributing to charities and local festivities around the winter solstice and harvest time. Without her having to live with people muttering stupid and vicious rumors behind her back, or her children's rights being called into question for not being entirely human. Don't forget that you're the one who got on our case about how we view her prospects with the Inquisitor, not the other way around. You're welcome to liberal interpretations of and extrapolations from those quotes you're talking about, but that doesn't make those interpretations and extrapolations canon, or us wrong for not sharing them. Yes they did. It was on the old forums in Josephine's thread. You know, the one I ran. With how it affects her reputation, they answered no matter who the Inquisitor is it affected her and her family's reputation positively because she was with the Inquisitor, one of the most influential person in Thedas. Because of that, people don't care about who the partner is but what they are. You even see this in the game when you pass by two nobles in Val Royeaux who murmur about her relationship with you, ending up saying they were impressed by her for it. Then there are the nobles in Skyhold who gossip about your relationships, and they call the one with Josephine a good match. Now, will there be some people who whisper negative things about the relationship? Of course, though those people would do so even with male nonmage human since even then you're just some minor noble from what they consider backwater country. And again we know those attitudes don't bug Josephine since she doesn't care about the opinions of racists and bigots as we see in the game. As for living happily ever after, besides the epilogue slides showing that they haven't commented about that regarding anything with the Inquisitor because they might not be done with the character yet, and therefore who knows what could happen. By out of the public eye, I meant they were no longer the center of attention. In her case, she retires from being the Inquisition's ambassador and takes control of her family business. That kind of role doesn't fall under the same scrutiny you are suggesting, or at the very least it is easier to ignore. And again, by then everyone considers it a good match. So yes, between the game itself and Word of God, you are wrong for not sharing them. You can still think the way you have been if you want, but that doesn't make it true. And with this I'd like the conversation dropped.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 5, 2019 22:17:47 GMT
Yes they did. It was on the old forums in Josephine's thread. You know, the one I ran. With how it affects her reputation, they answered no matter who the Inquisitor is it affected her and her family's reputation positively because she was with the Inquisitor, one of the most influential person in Thedas. Because of that, people don't care about who the partner is but what they are. You even see this in the game when you pass by two nobles in Val Royeaux who murmur about her relationship with you, ending up saying they were impressed by her for it. Then there are the nobles in Skyhold who gossip about your relationships, and they call the one with Josephine a good match. Now, will there be some people who whisper negative things about the relationship? Of course, though those people would do so even with male nonmage human since even then you're just some minor noble from what they consider backwater country. And again we know those attitudes don't bug Josephine since she doesn't care about the opinions of racists and bigots as we see in the game. As for living happily ever after, besides the epilogue slides showing that they haven't commented about that regarding anything with the Inquisitor because they might not be done with the character yet, and therefore who knows what could happen. By out of the public eye, I meant they were no longer the center of attention. In her case, she retires from being the Inquisition's ambassador and takes control of her family business. That kind of role doesn't fall under the same scrutiny you are suggesting, or at the very least it is easier to ignore. And again, by then everyone considers it a good match. So yes, between the game itself and Word of God, you are wrong for not sharing them. You can still think the way you have been if you want, but that doesn't make it true. And with this I'd like the conversation dropped. I never saw the old forums, let alone whatever threads you ran, and you haven't shared those quotes here so far as I know. If you have something then spill it, I don't know your social media history going back five years. Nobody likes being badmouthed by anyone, and Josephine isn't the type to be able to just ignore people's opinions, she's too sensitive. I don't buy Thedas at large approving of the match between Josephine and an elf/dwarf/qunari for a moment, and so far you really haven't shared anything substantial to support your idea that that's the objective and canonical state of things. Two nobles praising you right in front of you in your own hall don't an adoring public make. And again, I haven't been trying to convince you that my interpretation of events is "true", you can have your own DA headcanon whatever way you like. You're the one who's been trying to convince me that mine must be objectively wrong because you've apparently read something that isn't believable in interviews that you haven't shared. And I don't buy it, and certainly don't feel bound by it. And with that I'll be happy to drop the conversation.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 5, 2019 22:28:46 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 6, 2019 2:30:26 GMT
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Post by Iddy on Dec 9, 2019 14:35:48 GMT
While Josephine seems like a total goody two shoes, she really shows her morally gray side in the war table. The things she is willing to do for the sake of reputation and diplomacy... Maker.
There is this mission where Ameridan's identity as an elven mage is revealed and then you have to decide what to do about the nobles claiming his heritage. Cullen suggests giving the elves proper reparations, while Josephine wants to bribe the Dalish to buy their silence about this.
I believe there are other war table missions where her ideas are rather questionable, but I can't remember right now.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 9, 2019 15:49:37 GMT
Iddy Don’t you have anything positive to post? All your posts in my threads are just trying to stir things up and it’s getting annoying. So if you don’t have positive things, please just leave the threads alone.
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Post by Iddy on Dec 9, 2019 16:47:06 GMT
Her dress is nice
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 9, 2019 23:47:33 GMT
While Josephine seems like a total goody two shoes, she really shows her morally gray side in the war table. The things she is willing to do for the sake of reputation and diplomacy... Maker. There is this mission where Ameridan's identity as an elven mage is revealed and then you have to decide what to do about the nobles claiming his heritage. Cullen suggests giving the elves proper reparations, while Josephine wants to bribe the Dalish to buy their silence about this. I believe there are other war table missions where her ideas are rather questionable, but I can't remember right now. I'm not so sure. Most of her victims in the war table missions are Orlesian nobles, and who cares about that lot? I suppose it's possible that she has a subtly bloodthirsty side when it comes to gossip or some kind of mental block that keeps her from seeing utterly ruining somebody's reputation as being offensive. But it feels more like the game has set her up so well as a pacifist and current political expert that I kinda expect her to know whether the troublesome person in question is a douchebag who could use the comeuppance, and whether the tactic in question is likely to cause unnecessary havoc, and refrain from suggesting anything actually horrible for someone who doesn't deserve it. Especially because her judgement about things like that is the entire reason she's at the war table in the first place. As for those elves, public attention being drawn to the original elven mage Inquisitor could legitimately hurt the modern Inquisition's standing and affect their ability to take action against Corywhatshisface, so making the whole thing go away could be construed as being in the world's interest too. Besides, I'm sure receiving detailed information and artifacts of, and physical connections to, their heroic ancestor means more to the Dalish than humiliating a few shemlen hobnobs who are just being their usual appropriating selves. All the truly cynical Machiavellian schemes tend to come from Leliana's side of the table.
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Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2019 19:04:32 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2019 19:51:18 GMT
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Dec 26, 2019 12:37:21 GMT
I'm glad they changed her hair. The bangs give her an instant sense of being overworked and also informal enough to be herself around her coworkers, which just makes her very human all around. Keeps you talking to her through the noble gossip because it's obvious that there's more to her. That Josephine looks more committed to enforcing dress codes and badgering you with trivial logistics than having real conversations about how everyone is feeling after sudden developments. The hair being completely gathered and tied up at the back has an unfortunate tendency to make women look "all business", which isn't attractive or very interesting on anyone, man or woman. At least in my opinion. Obviously a completely superficial change, but I appreciate it. They could similarly have popped a beard on Cullen or something to make him look less like a Ken doll in armor.
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Post by Sonya on Dec 26, 2019 21:23:26 GMT
What I don't like about Josie (though she has good traits of character as a person) is that she is more in love with her work then Inquisitor. Before starting a romance you flirt with her and she can't even spare a minute, too much to do. When you start a romance there is a cutscene for every character (except Solas) where you two kiss, hug or whatever you do with Bull before kissing. And when you say "I'd like to be alone with you" her answer just pissed me off "OK, but only quicker, too much work" - with that meaning as don't remember word for word. So romanced her only once right till those words (watched her full romance in the internet, not interested in her). I understand she has really much to do as a diplomat (a hard wotk, but she likes it and she is obviously very good at it), but saying that phrase as if I'm some entertainment for her and she wants ASAP to return to her real love - WORK- to hell with that. Better be just friends (although she is a bit irritating for me - too soft and overwhelming romantic - but it's just me).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 26, 2019 21:29:48 GMT
What I don't like about Josie (though she has good traits of character as a person) is that she is more in love with her work then Inquisitor. Before starting a romance you flirt with her and she can't even spare a minute, too much to do. When you start a romance there is a cutscene for every character (except Solas) where you two kiss, hug or whatever you do with Bull before kissing. And when you say "I'd like to be alone with you" her answer just pissed me off "OK, but only quicker, too much work" - with that meaning as don't remember word for word. So romanced her only once right till those words (watched her full romance in the internet, not interested in her). I understand she has really much to do as a diplomat (a hard wotk, but she likes it and she is obviously very good at it), but saying that phrase as if I'm some entertainment for her and she wants ASAP to return to her real love - WORK- to hell with that. Better be just friends (although she is a bit irritating for me - too soft and overwhelming romantic - but it's just me). Sorry, but this is a complete misread of the romance. She does not say the line like that at all. She starts saying there is so much to do, then says "Oh, let's do." She's literally saying screw the work she'll deal with it later since she'd rather be with you. So the exact opposite of what you thought she was saying.
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Post by Sonya on Dec 26, 2019 21:33:40 GMT
Sorry, but this is a complete misread of the romance. She does not say the line like that at all. She starts saying there is so much to do, then says "Oh, let's do." She's literally saying screw the work she'll deal with it later since she'd rather be with you. oh, I see. I interpreted it in another way. "Scew the work" is much better. Thank you.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 26, 2019 21:43:43 GMT
Sorry, but this is a complete misread of the romance. She does not say the line like that at all. She starts saying there is so much to do, then says "Oh, let's do." She's literally saying screw the work she'll deal with it later since she'd rather be with you. oh, I see. I interpreted it in another way. "Scew the work" is much better. Thank you. You're welcome. Glad I could help with that.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 2, 2020 23:27:59 GMT
What I don't like about Josie (though she has good traits of character as a person) is that she is more in love with her work then Inquisitor. Before starting a romance you flirt with her and she can't even spare a minute, too much to do. When you start a romance there is a cutscene for every character (except Solas) where you two kiss, hug or whatever you do with Bull before kissing. And when you say "I'd like to be alone with you" her answer just pissed me off "OK, but only quicker, too much work" - with that meaning as don't remember word for word. So romanced her only once right till those words (watched her full romance in the internet, not interested in her). I understand she has really much to do as a diplomat (a hard wotk, but she likes it and she is obviously very good at it), but saying that phrase as if I'm some entertainment for her and she wants ASAP to return to her real love - WORK- to hell with that. Better be just friends (although she is a bit irritating for me - too soft and overwhelming romantic - but it's just me). That's actually one of the things I like about her, and what impresses most of my Inquisitors upon meeting her. She takes the whole endeavor as seriously as they do. She knows perfectly well that her role in fixing all the crazy shit is doing admin and finding polite ways to get butthurt nobles to shut up, and instead of slacking off and whining about her duties not being glamorous she really works her ass off, and we see how much of herself she gives and how much thought she puts into aiding the Inquisition and facilitating Corypheus' defeat no matter how boring or humiliating it is at any given time. If she worked less then the argument for her being there, and for her efforts to even remotely compare with people putting their lives on the line or dying for the cause with sword in hand just wouldn't work. She'd seem like a superfluous assistant doing a job that might theoretically be worthwhile but certainly wouldn't seem as important. And she herself would just be a vapid gossipy noble lady with a weak stomach. Instead we see firsthand that the whole thing is deadly serious to her and she's devoting every waking hour to do her part, and it makes us take her seriously in turn when she has misgivings about some of the things she's technically an accomplice to even though she isn't there with us on the battlefield when things need to get done. And as for romancing her, those of my Inquisitors who do just get to look forward to spending more time relaxing with her once things calm down a bit, when they've both earned it. Which frankly seems more romantic to me than sneaking around having awkwardly animated make-out sessions and sex in a drafty fortress while knowing that people are being devoured by demons everywhere. Imagine that first morning truly getting to sleep in with her, and having to almost physically restrain her from jumping out of bed to get started on the day just in case something important needs her attention. Bugging her while she applies her makeup, probing and prodding for reactions and making it take twice as long so you can have her all to yourself for that bit longer. And seeing her for the first time surrounded by family in the estate she grew up in, feeling safe, trying not to preen at how grateful everyone is to her and how accomplished they think she is while showing you off to all her childhood friends in a gorgeous doublet you had tailored just to please her. ... Okay, screw it, I'm making another Trevelyan next time just to romance her properly. Was planning on a ruthless dwarven carta enforcer kind of guy, but maybe that'll fit DA4's protagonist better. It's been five years, and I've made myself fall in love with her again in this thread.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 3, 2020 0:23:27 GMT
That's actually one of the things I like about her, and what impresses most of my Inquisitors upon meeting her. She takes the whole endeavor as seriously as they do. She knows perfectly well that her role in fixing all the crazy shit is doing admin and finding polite ways to get butthurt nobles to shut up, and instead of slacking off and whining about her duties not being glamorous she really works her ass off, and we see how much of herself she gives and how much thought she puts into aiding the Inquisition and facilitating Corypheus' defeat no matter how boring or humiliating it is at any given time. If she worked less then the argument for her being there, and for her efforts to even remotely compare with people putting their lives on the line or dying for the cause with sword in hand just wouldn't work. She'd seem like a superfluous assistant doing a job that might theoretically be worthwhile but certainly wouldn't seem as important. And she herself would just be a vapid gossipy noble lady with a weak stomach. Instead we see firsthand that the whole thing is deadly serious to her and she's devoting every waking hour to do her part, and it makes us take her seriously in turn when she has misgivings about some of the things she's technically an accomplice to even though she isn't there with us on the battlefield when things need to get done. yep, I like that part about her as well. A person really takes her duties seriously. And actully knows how and what to do (in comparison with leliana e.g. - a fishy character starting from DAO and who doesn't know her job at all, a lying bitch, hides a lot of important info as a Spymaster from you etc etc/ with Cullen at least there are some dialogues from Bull/SkyWatcher/someone else that his soldiers are well-trained). And I like that I can see Josie's work. It's a nice move from devs. I understand what you mean. As for the rest part - it's like with Hanako Ikezawa, showing another side of Josie. Greatly written composition, Noxluxe, like from a book. But romantic or no, for my preferences Josie is still overwhelming romantic, though tried this romance again - just can't. Prefer someone like Jack from MET - really tough on the public, but showing her true face only when you are alone with her + DLC Citadel scene with tattoo almost made me cry - with "strong" words, yes, but, whatever; or Zevran from DAO - almost the same thing only w/o "fucks". They are from the category of "complex, puzzle characters" with whom you need time to understand what the hell is going on but not not ignore them from the start - my real weakness in game-romances, can't help. Nice gaming and romancing Josie, though.
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Noxluxe
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 3, 2020 1:11:37 GMT
But romantic or no, for my preferences Josie is still overwhelming romantic, though tried this romance again - just can't. Prefer someone like Jack from MET - really tough on the public, but showing her true face only when you are alone with her + DLC Citadel scene with tattoo almost made me cry - with "strong" words, yes, but, whatever; or Zevran from DAO - almost the same thing only w/o "fucks". They are from the category of "complex, puzzle characters" with whom you need time to understand what the hell is going on but not not ignore them from the start - my real weakness in game-romances, can't help. Nice gaming and romancing Josie, though. Mhm, I think we've all been there. Nothing quite as romantic as falling in love with a complete wreck of a human being and helping them find their feet. In real life, mixing relationships with personal therapy is pretty risky for either process though. After some rather disappointing experiences in that department the idea has lost a lot of its shine to me, and these days a put-together and dedicated and emotionally stable woman seems inherently more attractive. And you don't get those as romance options in games very often anymore.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 3, 2020 8:11:14 GMT
Mhm, I think we've all been there. Nothing quite as romantic as falling in love with a complete wreck of a human being and helping them find their feet. In real life, mixing relationships with personal therapy is pretty risky for either process though. After some rather disappointing experiences in that department the idea has lost a lot of its shine to me, and these days a put-together and dedicated and emotionally stable woman seems inherently more attractive. And you don't get those as romance options in games very often anymore. What you described is only Jack. And you are right in part. In my understanding: first - "so-called therapy", then comes relationashp in full understanding. But Jack is only one example and I would separate her actually. I wouldn't call Zevran or Sera e.g. (there are other examples) in the same way - in their cases it's more in a way "simple guidance" (as well as guidance with all other characters in games, only with romance we have more options to understand a character - our GWs/Hawkes/Inquisitors/Sheps have nothing better to do than solve "Spectre" problemes all the time instead of doing real work). In real life, mixing relationships with personal therapy is pretty risky for either process though yep, that's the point. Games and real life. In games I prefer these "complex, puzzled characters", "wreckes" if you prefer. And have such stable women/men as Josie as friends. As it's a game where risk are what? Nothing. In real life it is indeed risky to mix up therapy and relationships. Better to meet someone stable (even if it seems so). And I wouldn't meet e.g. with Jack in real life. I would rather have Jack as a friend, trying to help (it's obvious she is not what she seems and if I have time to figure it out, why not? But only as a friend). With Zevran and Sera I would. After some rather disappointing experiences in that department I have dissapointment with "wreck" and "stable" humans. Both are ready to give you nasty surprises, and tbh, stable people - more often. Only not because I am blind (I usually see people through from the 2-3d meeting and that characteristic of mine makes many people boring in real life), but because some of them can hide their true nature very well as it turned out. It's not a confession. Games are games and for mistakes we are not punished. We choose whom we want: Jacks or Josies. In real life both groupes have nasty surprises, and in my exp-ce, stable ones more often. Or I am just very unlucky. But a game is a game. You can take romantic pleasures at least from there, if it's your desire.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,979 Likes: 3,492
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noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 3, 2020 9:05:58 GMT
What you described is only Jack. And you are right in part. In my understanding: first - "so-called therapy", then comes relationashp in full understanding. But Jack is only one example and I would separate her actually. I wouldn't call Zevran or Sera e.g. (there are other examples) in the same way - in their cases it's more in a way "simple guidance" (as well as guidance with all other characters in games, only with romance we have more options to understand a character - our GWs/Hawkes/Inquisitors/Sheps have nothing better to do than solve "Spectre" problemes all the time instead of doing real work). yep, that's the point. Games and real life. In games I prefer these "complex, puzzled characters", "wreckes" if you prefer. And have such stable women/men as Josie as friends. As it's a game where risk are what? Nothing. In real life it is indeed risky to mix up therapy and relationships. Better to meet someone stable (even if it seems so). And I wouldn't meet e.g. with Jack in real life. I would rather have Jack as a friend, trying to help (it's obvious she is not what she seems and if I have time to figure it out, why not? But only as a friend). With Zevran and Sera I would. I have dissapointment with "wreck" and "stable" humans. Both are ready to give you nasty surprises, and tbh, stable people - more often. Only not because I am blind (I usually see people through from the 2-3d meeting and that characteristic of mine makes many people boring in real life), but because some of them can hide their true nature very well as it turned out. It's not a confession. Games are games and for mistakes we are not punished. We choose whom we want: Jacks or Josies. In real life both groupes have nasty surprises, and in my exp-ce, stable ones more often. Or I am just very unlucky. But a game is a game. You can take romantic pleasures at least from there, if it's your desire. That's entirely fair. I'm not trying to judge your romance preferences, just relate to them. For my part, I enjoy befriending 'difficult' characters. Jacks, Morrigans, Zevrans. Maybe Sera if I found her less annoying. In my experience people who take to violence or cynicism as readily as they do, who have so little basic trust in other human beings, could do with a good friend better than just about anything. Because once that proves possible then everyone else can theoretically be a friend too. Opening them up to that idea is the first and most important step to getting them back to a place where other people, even strangers, can be important to them, which is necessary if they're ever going to live with contentment. Love has an unfortunate tendency to take all the focus and make it about you two, on the other hand, and eventually crashing and burning somehow. And if you're in the process of starting to emphasize with people then your most intimate relationship blowing up in your face can really screw that up. And both making someone so vulnerable emotionally dependent on you and starting a sexual relationship with them just seems creepy and wrong. Too many ways it could go catastrophically wrong. You'd have to absolutely need it to take that chance, and I have a hard time even imagining feeling that strongly about video game characters. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too afraid of breaking things. And that isn't a factor with someone like Josephine, who has qualifications and pastimes and positive connections to people all over the world, who in no way, shape or form is relying on me to be her only chance at a normal life or relationship. Because that isn't fair to either party.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 3, 2020 10:34:35 GMT
That's entirely fair. I'm not trying to judge your romance preferences, just relate to them. What? Not a single similar thouhgt about "judging". Nothing to worry about. Simple civilized discussion (I hope). For my part, I enjoy befriending 'difficult' characters. Jacks, Morrigans, Zevrans. Maybe Sera if I found her less annoying. In my experience people who take to violence or cynicism as readily as they do, who have so little basic trust in other human beings, could do with a good friend better than just about anything. Because once that proves possible then everyone else can theoretically be a friend too. Opening them up to that idea is the first and most important step to getting them back to a place where other people, even strangers, can be important to them, which is necessary if they're ever going to live with contentment. Actually, you've just written my thoughts on this "difficult" characters. Only on my part - in 1-2 sentences, you've expanded them up to the whole paragraph. From the result of such therapy/digging out/guidance of Zevrans/Morrigans/Fenrises/Seras/Jacks I take great pleasure to witness changes and that my efforts were not in vain. People changed, learnt something from you, understood the word could be a great place to live in. But, as everywhere, you can "really" wintess changes only romancing characters (the thing which I don't always want to do, even for checking it out), so get satisfaction from "friend-changes". Love has an unfortunate tendency to take all the focus and make it about you two, on the other hand, and eventually crashing and burning somehow. And if you're in the process of starting to emphasize with people then your most intimate relationship blowing up in your face can really screw that up. And both making someone so vulnerable emotionally dependent on you and starting a sexual relationship with them just seems creepy and wrong. Too many ways it could go catastrophically wrong. You'd have to absolutely need it to take that chance, and I have a hard time even imagining feeling that strongly about video game characters Love, relationships, emotions, sex - all of those things require work, a hard work, work to build something with what you and your partner can live, can handle as there are always problemes here and there, in real life or in games. Putting "love" on the 1st place and build relationships relying upon love in the fist place is a great (if not grave) mistake in my opinion as with this parameter in the first place, as you have notied, will crash or burn somehow relationships. Friendship, real friendship is the first step to build real relationship, then comes love; wife/husband = friend imo. Friendsip - the 1st solid parameter to continue relationship and expand them into something more. And your parnters' proplemes play a role of course here - it's up to you to decide whether you are ready to continure life with a person whose world vision has changed thanks to you. Such person still can have problemes or recover - but frienship is the first step, not sexual relationship. That's why in games I like Jack/Zevran/Sera - you first guide them, then continue if you want it. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too afraid of breaking things. And that isn't a factor with someone like Josephine, who has qualifications and pastimes and positive connections to people all over the world, who in no way, shape or form is relying on me to be her only chance at a normal life or relationship. Because that isn't fair to either party. I am over 30 now and what you describe - calm, positive life with a person you like etc etc - that sounds good to me in my age even after 2 such "positive" experiences with further nasty surprises. But it's in real fucking life. Still even in game I find Josie a great romance option, a great character dedicated to her work, who knows her work very well, dedicated to relationship (as you both showed me Josie from the otherh side), but not in the mood to romance her - to be friends with her in quite enough for me (who knows, maybe events from real life plays a part in this - have enough of such life).
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