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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 4:49:24 GMT
MAHVEL NETFLICKS SPOILERS Elektra wasn't a bad point for me. I can appreciate its there mostly for worldbuilding with The Hand. I also liked her portrayal. Elodie's scenes as a bloodthirsty badass were convincing enough. Bernthal as always brought his A game and rightfully sparked a Punisher series. I'll be glad to finally see a good Punisher in both look and acting and most of all a superhero who has no qualms with killing guys. I'd love to see him shut down Claire Temple's holier than thou act. Still hoping for a Moon Knight series too. Another funny thing was that I loved Diamondback. The outfit he wore was goofy but his lines were classic. Especially in that episode when he took over the club with hostages. I thought Shades was a good foil to his seemingly chaotic style but just lacked that one powerful moment to set him up as being more dangerous an adversary than Cottonmouth. Really hated Mariah for the right reasons just like D'Onofrio's Fisk/Kingpin. "Get Obama lite upstairs." OL: "You can't do this to me!" "YES WE CAN!" I'll still say DD season 2's had the best acting by far. Best dramatic scenes in the whole MCU with Murdoch v Fisk in the jail plus Daredevil and Frank Castle's rooftop argument as well as the story behind Penny and Dime.
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Post by MrR40 on Mar 22, 2017 7:02:55 GMT
The fight scenes are a bit underwhelming compared to Daredevil. The show does not grip me like it did with the other Defenders.
Defenders aside, more Frank Castle tbh. I am waiting for The Punisher series.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 22, 2017 15:47:03 GMT
MAHVEL NETFLICKS SPOILERS Elektra wasn't a bad point for me. I can appreciate its there mostly for worldbuilding with The Hand. I also liked her portrayal. Elodie's scenes as a bloodthirsty badass were convincing enough. Bernthal as always brought his A game and rightfully sparked a Punisher series. I'll be glad to finally see a good Punisher in both look and acting and most of all a superhero who has no qualms with killing guys. I'd love to see him shut down Claire Temple's holier than thou act. Still hoping for a Moon Knight series too. Another funny thing was that I loved Diamondback. The outfit he wore was goofy but his lines were classic. Especially in that episode when he took over the club with hostages. I thought Shades was a good foil to his seemingly chaotic style but just lacked that one powerful moment to set him up as being more dangerous an adversary than Cottonmouth. Really hated Mariah for the right reasons just like D'Onofrio's Fisk/Kingpin. "Get Obama lite upstairs." OL: "You can't do this to me!" "YES WE CAN!" I'll still say DD season 2's had the best acting by far. Best dramatic scenes in the whole MCU with Murdoch v Fisk in the jail plus Daredevil and Frank Castle's rooftop argument as well as the story behind Penny and Dime. I still think Cottonmouth was the more compelling villain. But then, I saw him as more of a fallen hero. Someone who might have been great if he had made different choices in his life, and on some level he knew that. Diamondback seemed to be just Evil For The Lulz
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Post by Galactic Runner on Mar 23, 2017 1:22:40 GMT
More like Bronze Fist, am I right, guys?
HA HA HA!
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Post by vit246 on Mar 25, 2017 16:10:21 GMT
In this case, Iron Fist doesn't count as whitewashing. At worst, one could argue he's a Mighty Whitey who went to learn Kung Fu from a Asian master and became the undisputed best of it out of all the Asian students. I understand the stereotypical implication of an Asian kung fu fighter, but so is the Mighty Whitey kung fu fighter from the 70s and 80s. On the other hand, we still have Shang Chi for an Asian superhero. However, I take issue with your argument about the Prince of Persia. The Prince IS PERSIAN for all intents and purposes. Voice accent is IRRELEVANT to race. And British is a nationality, not an ethnicity, there is a huge difference between the two. By that logic, Bart Simpson is a woman and Samurai Jack is black. Now initially I was like "WTF" about the Prince of Persia but over time I forgave it a little, cuz Iranians/Persians being "white" or not was actually more complicated than I thought. Many of them could pass for white, and vice versa Jake Gyllenhal could possibly pass for Persian.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 17, 2017 13:12:30 GMT
I had a good time reading through this thread. I wish we could all watch these shows together.
I had to force myself to watch the whole season of Iron Fist. I was so disappointed with his portrayal. Not in the very beginning though. When he was walking around barefoot, listening to hip-hop, roughing up security guards and sleeping in the park i liked it. Mostly.
But as the show went on i saw that he was so mentally and physically weak. Hard to believe a guy this soft became a champion among supernatural monks. Hes a phuqing pussy. The fight scenes were terrible too. If it wasn't for Colleen Wings phine ass I probably would have stopped watching.
I love Rosario Dawson and her Claire character but she shouldn't be beating up undead super ninjas. Too much of a stretch.
So far Daredevil season 2 reigns supreme. So many great scenes.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 17, 2017 13:38:10 GMT
About the whitewashing thing:
No whitewashing here. Iron Fist was always a white dood. I would have preferred for the original character to be asian but he's trope/stereotype either way so whatever.
Actually watching Iron Fist got me upset that Elektra was cast as asian in Daredevil.
I'd rather have asian people doing asian shit but i don't like to see ethnicity changes in characters because I'll be damned if Blade or Storm get changed to anything other than what they are.
Jake Gyllenhaal as The Prince Of Persia was a slap in the face to every north African, middle eastern, and south asian actor out there. Prime example of whitewashing. As was Exodus Gods And Kings. As was Gods Of Egypt. As is Ghost In The Shell. Just my opinion.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 14:15:53 GMT
In this case, Iron Fist doesn't count as whitewashing. At worst, one could argue he's a Mighty Whitey who went to learn Kung Fu from a Asian master and became the undisputed best of it out of all the Asian students. I understand the stereotypical implication of an Asian kung fu fighter, but so is the Mighty Whitey kung fu fighter from the 70s and 80s. On the other hand, we still have Shang Chi for an Asian superhero. However, I take issue with your argument about the Prince of Persia. The Prince IS PERSIAN for all intents and purposes. Voice accent is IRRELEVANT to race. And British is a nationality, not an ethnicity, there is a huge difference between the two. By that logic, Bart Simpson is a woman and Samurai Jack is black. Now initially I was like "WTF" about the Prince of Persia but over time I forgave it a little, cuz Iranians/Persians being "white" or not was actually more complicated than I thought. Many of them could pass for white, and vice versa Jake Gyllenhal could possibly pass for Persian. He's not the undisputed best, not at all. Shang-Chi is explicitly a more skilled fighter than Danny, and Davos (a K'un-L'un native) is on par with Danny despite having an arguably inferior set of mystical powers. Practically none of Danny's recurring martial artist villains are white, either, and they routinely give him good fights, and a handful have even won on occasion. If Danny didn't have the Iron Fist, he'd be an otherwise normal fighter (for Marvel's standards of "normal", which makes him superhuman compared to any actual real person). Basically Daredevil, but not blind. Not to slight Danny's skills, becauss he IS an ultra badass, but a lot of what makes Danny stand out compared to his competition is the Iron Fist and the special abilities it gives him.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 17, 2017 14:30:40 GMT
About the whitewashing thing: No whitewashing here. Iron Fist was always a white dood. I would have preferred for the original character to be asian but he's trope/stereotype either way so whatever. Actually watching Iron Fist got me upset that Elektra was cast as asian in Daredevil. I'd rather have asian people doing asian shit but i don't like to see ethnicity changes in characters because I'll be damned if Blade or Storm get changed to anything other than what they are. Jake Gyllenhaal as The Prince Of Persia was a slap in the face to every north African, middle eastern, and south asian actor out there. Prime example of whitewashing. As was Exodus Gods And Kings. As was Gods Of Egypt. As is Ghost In The Shell. Just my opinion. Most of those casting decisions I would wager were all about star power. About a century ago, Hollywood realized they could dramatically increase movie attendance by emphasizing the involvement of big name actors, a practice that has continued to this day. So cynical producers out to make a buck always try to go for the big name cast regardless of how they visually fit the role, especially if they aren't confident the film will appeal on its own. And most of the biggest name actors in Hollywood are white (Can you think of a Japanese actress as famous with action film experience as Scarlet Johansson?). Video game movies and anime live action adaptations notoriously bomb, so they are particularly vulnerable to this. Not saying that these weren't whitewashing necessarily, but I suspect the motivations here were all about money. Netflix series and such generally don't have the same star power culture, or at least their actors are often not as immediately recognizable do they aren't reliant on star power for profit in the same way. So these might be a better place to put out more non-white heroes.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 17:58:35 GMT
About the whitewashing thing: No whitewashing here. Iron Fist was always a white dood. I would have preferred for the original character to be asian but he's trope/stereotype either way so whatever. Actually watching Iron Fist got me upset that Elektra was cast as asian in Daredevil. I'd rather have asian people doing asian shit but i don't like to see ethnicity changes in characters because I'll be damned if Blade or Storm get changed to anything other than what they are. Jake Gyllenhaal as The Prince Of Persia was a slap in the face to every north African, middle eastern, and south asian actor out there. Prime example of whitewashing. As was Exodus Gods And Kings. As was Gods Of Egypt. As is Ghost In The Shell. Just my opinion. Have you seen Persian people, from the region of the world that was known as Persia? Quite a lot of them can pass for straight-up Caucasian. "Aryan" did originally refer to people from this area, after all. If anything, Jake Gyllenhaal was cast because he's a tremendously famous star who will bring in ticket sales. Also, as an aside, Sofia Boutella (a French-Algerian woman born in Algeria) is cast as the titular mummy in the new The Mummy film being made, and is currently facing controversy and accusations of "whitewashing" despite being from a country directly neighboring the one that her character is from, and very strongly resembling someone from Egypt. Likewise, Rami Malek, an Egyptian actor, was accused of whitewashing for his role in the Night at the Museum films, where he played a pharaoh, despite him being fully Egyptian. As for Ghost in the Shell, her body is robotic, in a multi-ethnic society that is racially mixed (presumably in Japan, but there are white, Asian, black, Latino, and Indian people all present), and has an in-universe reason given for why her body is so different from her original human ethnicity. Of all the examples of "whitewashing" in film, the Ghost in the Shell movie is probably the dumbest, most shitty example one can give, and it reeks of not seeing the movie but complaining anyway.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 18:06:39 GMT
Have you seen Persian people, from the region of the world that was known as Persia? Quite a lot of them can pass for straight-up Caucasian. "Aryan" did originally refer to people from this area, after all. If anything, Jake Gyllenhaal was cast because he's a tremendously famous star who will bring in ticket sales. Also, as an aside, Sofia Boutella (a French-Algerian woman born in Algeria) is cast as the titular mummy in the new The Mummy film being made, and is currently facing controversy and accusations of "whitewashing" despite being from a country directly neighboring the one that her character is from, and very strongly resembling someone from Egypt. Likewise, Rami Malek, an Egyptian actor, was accused of whitewashing for his role in the Night at the Museum films, where he played a pharaoh, despite him being fully Egyptian. Relevant: www.lettersofnote.com/2012/03/i-have-no-ancestors-of-that-gifted.html
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 18:18:42 GMT
I watched the first two episodes of Iron Fist and thought it was mediocre. There's wasn't necessarily anything wrong with it, but it lacked the combination of solid fight scenes and general charm that Daredevil had and the solid villains that Jessica Jones and the first half of Luke Cage had, so I didn't feel like it was worth continuing on with.
On the race thing, whitewashing isn't the right term for it, but it is weird that they chose to adapt a character that clearly has such an old school white-guy-goes-to-Asia plot to it. There are so many ways for that to run into stereotypes. And there are so many unused characters that don't have that baggage, I don't see why they decided to use this one.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 17, 2017 18:24:35 GMT
On the race thing, whitewashing isn't the right term for it, but it is weird that they chose to adapt a character that clearly has such an old school white-guy-goes-to-Asia plot to it. There are so many ways for that to run into stereotypes. And there are so many unused characters that don't have that baggage, I don't see why they decided to use this one. Old-school Luke Cage is pretty cringeworthy, both in Luke himself and his villains. But they managed to update him to get with the times. Danny's story doesn't seem overly stereotypical. He just seemed a bit...immature for the mantle of some legendary guardian.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 18:26:22 GMT
I watched the first two episodes of Iron Fist and thought it was mediocre. There's wasn't necessarily anything wrong with it, but it lacked the combination of solid fight scenes and general charm that Daredevil had and the solid villains that Jessica Jones and the first half of Luke Cage had, so I didn't feel like it was worth continuing on with. On the race thing, whitewashing isn't the right term for it, but it is weird that they chose to adapt a character that clearly has such an old school white-guy-goes-to-Asia plot to it. There are so many ways for that to run into stereotypes. And there are so many unused characters that don't have that baggage, I don't see why they decided to use this one. Why is it weird? It's no more or less weird than Captain America being created literally for the purpose of anti-German WWII propaganda. "White guy goes to Asia" plot? What does that even mean?
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 17, 2017 18:32:41 GMT
I watched the first two episodes of Iron Fist and thought it was mediocre. There's wasn't necessarily anything wrong with it, but it lacked the combination of solid fight scenes and general charm that Daredevil had and the solid villains that Jessica Jones and the first half of Luke Cage had, so I didn't feel like it was worth continuing on with. On the race thing, whitewashing isn't the right term for it, but it is weird that they chose to adapt a character that clearly has such an old school white-guy-goes-to-Asia plot to it. There are so many ways for that to run into stereotypes. And there are so many unused characters that don't have that baggage, I don't see why they decided to use this one. Why is it weird? It's no more or less weird than Captain America being created literally for the purpose of anti-German WWII propaganda. "White guy goes to Asia" plot? What does that even mean? White guy goes to the "mystical orient" and masters new powers/skills is a bit of a trope. Heck, Nolan's Batman fits that trope and so does Dr. Strange. But to answer raikas' question, they're setting up a "Defenders" series. It's a more street level super hero team in the Marvel comics (The other Netflix series characters being members), Iron Fist is the traditional leader of that group from what I hear.
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 18:39:49 GMT
Why is it weird? It's no more or less weird than Captain America being created literally for the purpose of anti-German WWII propaganda. "White guy goes to Asia" plot? What does that even mean? WWII propaganda is pretty standard, so I don't think that's weird at all in context. Frankly I'd love to see Marvel do an Invaders series with Spitfire and the original Human Torch and Union Jack. As for that "white guy" plot someone upthread mentioned the full version, a foreigner comes into a country, learns their ways and becomes the master. It's everywhere in old pulp novels, and it definitely has colonial trappings to it. My point isn't that the existence of that plot is weird - as I said, it's everywhere in the pulpy pop culture from the 20s to the 70s, it's that choosing to adapt that kind of story today is weird from a business perspective because it's begging for criticism whether you do a good job or not. It's one thing if the character is someone that has a huge fan following, because obviously they'd want to cash in on that. But he's not, so what's weird to me is that they were willing to take the chance when they had to have realized that they were walking into a certain amount of criticism regardless of what the end product ending up being. Personally I think if a show is good enough it won't matter in the end, but that's just me (although I ended up thinking it wasn't very good just in general) - I don't blame people who want to look at the broader social picture). Yeah, they're putting together the Defenders, but when it comes to general (non-comics) recognition I don't buy that any character other than maybe Daredevil has the visibility to be essential. It irritates me as a comics fan to admit it, but really either way they're basically marketing the series and the team to an audience for whom most of the characters are completely new.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 18:47:21 GMT
Why is it weird? It's no more or less weird than Captain America being created literally for the purpose of anti-German WWII propaganda. "White guy goes to Asia" plot? What does that even mean? White guy goes to the "mystical orient" and masters new powers/skills is a bit of a trope. Heck, Nolan's Batman fits that trope and so does Dr. Strange. But to answer raikas' question, they're setting up a "Defenders" series. It's a more street level super hero team in the Marvel comics (The other Netflix series characters being members), Iron Fist is the traditional leader of that group from what I hear. Except that's not what happens. Danny doesn't just decide to travel to a land of savages to learn their magic, those "mystical Orient" inhabitants rescue him from death and he spends half of his life there, effectively growing up as a native while facing discrimination himself for being an outsider. And the Defenders show should have just been renamed Heroes for Hire, since the lineup is literally just the Heroes for Hire lineup (Luke, Danny, Jessica, and Misty Knight primarily), but with Daredevil, and also none of the characters present in the show so far were part of the original Defenders team, which since this is supposed to be an introduction to the team a la The Avengers, it seems like it would make more sense to do the OG team composition like the movie (mostly) did. Interestingly, all but 1 of the original Defenders (Doctor Strange, the Hulk, Namor the Sub-Mariner, and the Silver Surfer) have appeared in a movie at least once.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 17, 2017 18:56:24 GMT
White guy goes to the "mystical orient" and masters new powers/skills is a bit of a trope. Heck, Nolan's Batman fits that trope and so does Dr. Strange. But to answer raikas' question, they're setting up a "Defenders" series. It's a more street level super hero team in the Marvel comics (The other Netflix series characters being members), Iron Fist is the traditional leader of that group from what I hear. Except that's not what happens. Danny doesn't just decide to travel to a land of savages to learn their magic, those "mystical Orient" inhabitants rescue him from death and he spends half of his life there, effectively growing up as a native while facing discrimination himself for being an outsider. And the Defenders show should have just been renamed Heroes for Hire, since the lineup is literally just the Heroes for Hire lineup (Luke, Danny, Jessica, and Misty Knight primarily), but with Daredevil, and also none of the characters present in the show so far were part of the original Defenders team, which since this is supposed to be an introduction to the team a la The Avengers, it seems like it would make more sense to do the OG team composition like the movie (mostly) did. Interestingly, all but 1 of the original Defenders (Doctor Strange, the Hulk, Namor the Sub-Mariner, and the Silver Surfer) have appeared in a movie at least once. I don't think that changes the Trope much, the point is mostly that white man learns the ways of the orient blah blah blah, has a special destiny or something or he's one of the best despite being an outsider. I don't actually have a problem with this trope, and to address raikas post, I don't think they really need to shy away from this sort of story. Sure, some people will be "offended" by it but ultimately it isn't really a bad one. I also don't read comics really, so I'm mostly saying what I've been told on the internet about the character.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 19:04:29 GMT
Why is it weird? It's no more or less weird than Captain America being created literally for the purpose of anti-German WWII propaganda. "White guy goes to Asia" plot? What does that even mean? WWII propaganda is pretty standard, so I don't think that's weird at all in context. Frankly I'd love to see Marvel do an Invaders series with Spitfire and the original Human Torch and Union Jack. As for that "white guy" plot someone upthread mentioned the full version, a foreigner comes into a country, learns their ways and becomes the master. It's everywhere in old pulp novels, and it definitely has colonial trappings to it. My point isn't that the existence of that plot is weird - as I said, it's everywhere in the pulpy pop culture from the 20s to the 70s, it's that choosing to adapt that kind of story today is weird from a business perspective because it's begging for criticism whether you do a good job or not. It's one thing if the character is someone that has a huge fan following, because obviously they'd want to cash in on that. But he's not, so what's weird to me is that they were willing to take the chance when they had to have realized that they were walking into a certain amount of criticism regardless of what the end product ending up being. Personally I think if a show is good enough it won't matter in the end, but that's just me (although I ended up thinking it wasn't very good just in general) - I don't blame people who want to look at the broader social picture). Yeah, they're putting together the Defenders, but when it comes to general (non-comics) recognition I don't buy that any character other than maybe Daredevil has the visibility to be essential. It irritates me as a comics fan to admit it, but really either way they're basically marketing the series and the team to an audience for whom most of the characters are completely new. Iron Fist was born from 1970's martial arts cinema, specifically that by Bruce Lee. In that context, I don't really see what's "weird" about it. Bruce Lee himself was known to promote studying martial arts to pretty much everybody, regardless of where they came from, and many of his movies featured non-Asian fighters (Chuck Norris and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are probably the most famous, who are white and black, respectively). A number of early Iron Fist stories were even all but directly lifted from Lee films, so it's clear hat the character is at least partially a tribute to Bruce Lee, who never wanted martial arts to be seen as a strictly Asian thing. Even still, Danny doesn't become some kind of super ultra mega master who is better than the Asian people who spent millennia fighting. He's certainly extremely skilled, but he is beaten on a number of occasions by people who are better skilled fighters than he is. I mentioned this before in the thread, the primary reason why Danny is special is because he has the titular Iron Fist, not so much because of his raw fighting skill. Several of his most prominent recurring villains are "Asian" (if the decidedly not-human people from the heavenly cities in the comics can be called Asian), and his arch nemesis, the Steel Serpent Davos, is arguably a better fighter than Danny, being able to match him despite what seems to be an inferior set of mystical abilities. As well, the title of Iron Fist is more of a job than anything, technically anyone can become the Iron Fist if they kill Shou-Lao the Undying, and there have been Iron Fists before Danny, hailing from both the native K'un-L'un and various places of Earth (for example, there was an African Iron Fist at one point in history before Danny. Incidentally, the character of Shang-Chi, who is de facto the best martial arts fighter in the Marvel continuities, is nowadays practically just Bruce Lee, from his artwork to his mannerisms to his fighting style.
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 19:11:49 GMT
Iron Fist was born from 1970's martial arts cinema, specifically that by Bruce Lee. In that context, I don't really see what's "weird" about it. You realize that I specifically said I don't find the character origins weird, right? I'm aware of the origins, and that doesn't change my opinion. Because what I find weird is the decision of Marvel/Disney to choose to adapt a story of that style into a television series at this particular moment in history, given current attitudes towards that kind of narrative. A lecture about the origins has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is essentially public relations and marketing decisions.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 19:31:15 GMT
Iron Fist was born from 1970's martial arts cinema, specifically that by Bruce Lee. In that context, I don't really see what's "weird" about it. You realize that I specifically said I don't find the character origins weird, right? I'm aware of the origins, and that doesn't change my opinion. Because what I find weird is the decision of Marvel/Disney to choose to adapt a story of that style into a television series at this particular moment in history, given current attitudes towards that kind of narrative. A lecture about the origins has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is essentially public relations and marketing decisions. The only people who are concerning themselves with a white character being white are racists. I don't know where you're from, but to use the United States as an example, race isn't even a particularly contested issue outside of university campuses and newsrooms, aka the most likely places to find ideologues and bigots. If you (not referring to you specifically, but to people in general who make things like the race of fictional characters into controversial issues) actually have a problem with someone like Danny being white, and then remaining white in subsequent adaptations and piss your pants in a tantrum because of it, then it just shows that you don't have respect for the material and just want it to pass some kind of ideological purity test and have your insecurities validated.
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Post by raikas on Apr 17, 2017 19:51:26 GMT
The only people who are concerning themselves with a white character being white are racists. I don't know where you're from, but to use the United States as an example, race isn't even a particularly contested issue outside of university campuses and newsrooms, aka the most likely places to find ideologues and bigots. If you (not referring to you specifically, but to people in general who make things like the race of fictional characters into controversial issues) actually have a problem with someone like Danny being white, and then remaining white in subsequent adaptations and piss your pants in a tantrum because of it, then it just shows that you don't have respect for the material and just want it to pass some kind of ideological purity test and have your insecurities validated. From a promotional perspective I don't think it matters if the criticisms are justified or just "tantrums". What matters is that they were predictable. There's no way someone could look at that story and not be aware that some people will have issues with it. If the product were brilliant, it could certainly overcome that. If this was a very well-known, widely-loved character that would cancel the other out (again, I'm talking about in the publicity sense). But he's not a widely known/loved character outside of a specific comics-reading niche, and the show had middle of the road reviews (not poor reviews, but the one I've seen most often is that even positive reviews call it the least successful of the Marvel Netflix shows). I'm sure no one goes in trying to make a mediocre tv series, but both the level of pre-existing popular awareness of the character and the potential for controversy around the core of the story were both completely predictable.
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 17, 2017 21:33:56 GMT
The only people who are concerning themselves with a white character being white are racists. I don't know where you're from, but to use the United States as an example, race isn't even a particularly contested issue outside of university campuses and newsrooms, aka the most likely places to find ideologues and bigots. If you (not referring to you specifically, but to people in general who make things like the race of fictional characters into controversial issues) actually have a problem with someone like Danny being white, and then remaining white in subsequent adaptations and piss your pants in a tantrum because of it, then it just shows that you don't have respect for the material and just want it to pass some kind of ideological purity test and have your insecurities validated. From a promotional perspective I don't think it matters if the criticisms are justified or just "tantrums". What matters is that they were predictable. There's no way someone could look at that story and not be aware that some people will have issues with it. If the product were brilliant, it could certainly overcome that. If this was a very well-known, widely-loved character that would cancel the other out (again, I'm talking about in the publicity sense). But he's not a widely known/loved character outside of a specific comics-reading niche, and the show had middle of the road reviews (not poor reviews, but the one I've seen most often is that even positive reviews call it the least successful of the Marvel Netflix shows). I'm sure no one goes in trying to make a mediocre tv series, but both the level of pre-existing popular awareness of the character and the potential for controversy around the core of the story were both completely predictable. I know the outrage was inevitable, but the only people getting upset were racist to begin with, so it's not like their opinion on a racial "issue" such as this matters much.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 18, 2017 0:23:47 GMT
I got about 5 eps in before giving up on Iron Fist. The acting wasn't that bad, but the fights were awful and love story/interest lacked any chemistry. Also I think they would have struggled with me no matter what because I have a low tolerance for ninjas and The Hand.
DD so far as been the best of the Marvel bunch, season 1 was great (excellent bad guy and good character building on DD's part). Season 2 was a mixed bag, anything with Frank was fantastic (Punisher can't come soon enough) but the Elektra/Hand stuff was weak, though Elektra/Matt chemistry/love story was convincing.
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Post by straykat on Apr 18, 2017 7:44:37 GMT
I haven't seen it, but I hope it isn't bad..
I got bad impressions from Luke Cage, but ended up kind of liking it. Hope it's at least as decent as that. Not asking for much.
edit: Wait, there's controversy about race? Ugh. Do they not even know the Iron Fist? lol. Welcome to 30 years ago.
I hate to always bring things like this up, but I'm Asian -- and a MA enthusiast -- and I don't care. So long as the show is written well. I had a prob with Motoko (GitS) being white tbh, but that's because they have to rearrange the story around that change.
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