Almila_Lavellan
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 7, 2017 12:55:56 GMT
^ Just want to point out that mundane people (people without magic) can turn into abominations. DA 2 clearly showed that in Act 1 with templar recruit Wilmod. An abomination is by definition a mage merged with a spirit(Magical powers of the mage+Magical powers of the spirit)who may result into those ugly looking things of the Circle tower of DAO. A mundane can be possessed by a spirit,however that doesn't make them abominations,they are often more weak than the original spirit that possess them. Dragon Age Wiki would like to have a word with you: AbominationMundane people are also called "abomination" when they are possessed, dead or alive.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2017 12:56:49 GMT
^ Just want to point out that mundane people (people without magic) can turn into abominations. DA 2 clearly showed that in Act 1 with templar recruit Wilmod. An abomination is by definition a mage merged with a spirit(Magical powers of the mage+Magical powers of the spirit)who may result into those ugly looking things of the Circle tower of DAO. A mundane can be possessed by a spirit,however that doesn't make them abominations,they are often more weak than the original spirit that possess them. Wilmod was an abomination. Just for sake of truth. Everyone can be abomination, who accepts a demon's offer. (In fact, probably this "accept" not always necessary: an animal also can be abomination. We know about two cases in game. Kitty, cat, desire demon, DAO, Golem of Honnleath dlc, Mr. Wiggums, cat, rage demon, DA: Awakening.)
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Apr 7, 2017 13:41:21 GMT
Not really understand, what you want to say. This is a new "Thedas needs prison-Circles, because the Mages are dangerous" debate? Because then I say what I usually say: this is unnecessary torture of innocents, give a false sense of security, in addition to being inhumane, even dangerous as well. I'm on the total opposite side, mages of DA are nothing more but reckless lunatics who needs to be eradicated once and for all one by one from the first to the last until their genes are being eradicated that way no new demi-god will ever ben brought into being. Blights,veil,slavery,blood magic,abominations,breachs,darkspawns,all problems that couldn't have existed if stupid mages weren't brought into being,them and their stupid magic which undermined the flourish of true tecnology.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Apr 7, 2017 13:42:41 GMT
An abomination is by definition a mage merged with a spirit(Magical powers of the mage+Magical powers of the spirit)who may result into those ugly looking things of the Circle tower of DAO. A mundane can be possessed by a spirit,however that doesn't make them abominations,they are often more weak than the original spirit that possess them. Dragon Age Wiki would like to have a word with you: AbominationMundane people are also called "abomination" when they are possessed, dead or alive. DA wiki support Prince so read it carefully. First sentence "An abomination is a creature created when a demon possesses a living being with magical abilitiesMundanes possessed by spirits are not abominations,dead people possessed by spirits are undead not abominations,the difference is big since abominations are much more powerful than the latter and can create others abominations,undead or call in other demons on their own.It's ridiculous as it seem you linked to a page that you didn't even bother to read.
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Almila_Lavellan
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 7, 2017 13:48:25 GMT
Dragon Age Wiki would like to have a word with you: AbominationMundane people are also called "abomination" when they are possessed, dead or alive. DA wiki support Prince so read it carefully. First sentence "An abomination is a creature created when a demon possesses a living being with magical abilitiesRest of the wiki page says otherwise by listing Amalia, Matthias, Wilmod as abominations. They are mundane. Even animals can turn into abominations: Kitty in DA:O: Stone Prisoner. I did read the page. I can't understand why you insist on they can't be called abominations since DA 2 Act 1 deals with Blood Mages who try to turn templars into abominations. They are mundane.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2017 13:54:10 GMT
Not really understand, what you want to say. This is a new "Thedas needs prison-Circles, because the Mages are dangerous" debate? Because then I say what I usually say: this is unnecessary torture of innocents, give a false sense of security, in addition to being inhumane, even dangerous as well. I'm on the total opposite side, mages of DA are nothing more but reckless lunatics who needs to be eradicated once and for all one by one from the first to the last until their genes are being eradicated that way no new demi-god will ever ben brought into being. Blights,veil,slavery,blood magic,abominations,breachs,darkspawns,all problems that couldn't have existed if stupid mages weren't brought into being,them and their stupid magic which undermined the flourish of true tecnology. To solve this problem I suggested the extermination of every mage children. True, this "solution" does not prevent the world's end, but at least cheaper than maintaining the Circles.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Apr 7, 2017 13:59:44 GMT
DA wiki support Prince so read it carefully. First sentence "An abomination is a creature created when a demon possesses a living being with magical abilitiesRest of the wiki page says otherwise by listing Amalia, Matthias, Wilmod as abominations. They are mundane. Even animals can turn into abominations: Kitty in DA:O: Stone Prisoner. I don't see where is the issue,most of the characters mentioned are mages not mundanes. Amalia is a mage,Matthias is a mage,they come from a family of mages, if they become possessed they become abominations since the demon increase it's own power thanks to their body.
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Almila_Lavellan
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 7, 2017 14:04:41 GMT
Rest of the wiki page says otherwise by listing Amalia, Matthias, Wilmod as abominations. They are mundane. Even animals can turn into abominations: Kitty in DA:O: Stone Prisoner. I don't see where is the issue,most of the characters mentioned are mages not mundanes. Amalia is a mage,Matthias is a mage,they come from a family of mages, if they become possessed they become abominations since the demon increase it's own power thanks to their body. Hmm, no, they aren't mages. Tell me where game or codexes explicitly state that they are mages, then I'll believe it. Just because Matthias' father is a mage doesn't mean he's a mage. There's nothing that says so.
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Post by secretrare on Apr 7, 2017 14:13:07 GMT
Aside from uber powerful mages like Solas/Flemeth and their ambitions,my issue with mages is blood magic. It's a school of magic that allows mind control,so any good blood mage can brainwash people to force them to commit a crime for them,and then there is no way you could tell if that crime was committed because the person in question was mind controlled or because was his/her own deed. Heck anyone could use that excuse in order to evade punishment.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2017 14:13:25 GMT
Rest of the wiki page says otherwise by listing Amalia, Matthias, Wilmod as abominations. They are mundane. Even animals can turn into abominations: Kitty in DA:O: Stone Prisoner. I don't see where is the issue,most of the characters mentioned are mages not mundanes. Amalia is a mage,Matthias is a mage if they become possessed they become abominations,since the demon increase it's own power thanks to the body of the mage. A significant part of Thedas' population is Mage. The Chantry perhaps can exterminate almost every mage children in the Andrastian Southern-Thedas, but Mages still exist in Tevinter, among the Dalish clans, Avvars, Rivain, etc. But perhaps I think, the Chantry failed at the prison-Circles, and corrupt, but still not SO corrupt, that would be able to it. Not mentioned, that most of Mages are just people, and wants to live freely and peacefully. Bethany, Anders, Huon, Evelina etc. Bethany was "normal", but these others were dangerous idiots, run amok? These people were similar. The difference between them: the Circle.
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Post by secretrare on Apr 7, 2017 14:16:01 GMT
I don't see where is the issue,most of the characters mentioned are mages not mundanes. Amalia is a mage,Matthias is a mage,they come from a family of mages, if they become possessed they become abominations since the demon increase it's own power thanks to their body. Hmm, no, they aren't mages. Tell me where game or codexes explicitly state that they are mages, then I'll believe it. Just because Matthias' father is a mage doesn't mean he's a mage. There's nothing that says so. Weren't they? Matthias was manipulating a magical barrier to prevent Darkspawns to kill the villagers,I don't think a mundane can manipulate a magical barrier. Her daughter attracted a spirit of desire,those are demons who usually cares only to take mages,they don't want to merge themselves with mundanes,among all the people in the village that spirit wanted only one of these two.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2017 14:19:18 GMT
Aside from uber powerful mages like Solas/Flemeth and their ambitions,my issue with mages is blood magic. It's a school of magic that allows mind control,so any good blood mage can brainwash people to force them to commit a crime for them,and then there is no way you could tell if that crime was committed because the perosn in question was mind controlled or because was his/her own deed. If it were that simple, why the mages tolerate the Circles quietly? The Templars are defenseless against blood magic ... or is it not even so dangerous?
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Almila_Lavellan
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 7, 2017 14:20:29 GMT
Hmm, no, they aren't mages. Tell me where game or codexes explicitly state that they are mages, then I'll believe it. Just because Matthias' father is a mage doesn't mean he's a mage. There's nothing that says so. Weren't they? Matthias was manipulating a magical barrier to prevent Darkspawns to kill the villagers,I don't think a mundane can manipulate a magical barrier. Her daughter attracted a spirit of desire,those are demons who usually cares only to take mages,they don't want to merge themselves with mundanes,among all the people in the village that spirit wanted only one of these two. Matthias manipulated a magical barrier, yes. What I mean is that the game didn't state that they were mages. Let's assume they are mages, then what about Wilmod? Is he also a mage?
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2017 14:22:53 GMT
Weren't they? Matthias was manipulating a magical barrier to prevent Darkspawns to kill the villagers,I don't think a mundane can manipulate a magical barrier. Her daughter attracted a spirit of desire,those are demons who usually cares only to take mages,they don't want to merge themselves with mundanes,among all the people in the village that spirit wanted only one of these two. Matthias manipulated a magical barrier, yes. What I mean is that the game didn't state that they were mages. Let's assume they are mages, then what about Wilmod? Is he also a mage? Eh, you know: Wilmod, Meredith, Lord Seeker Lucius aren't dangerous. These are just... happened.
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Post by secretrare on Apr 8, 2017 2:09:12 GMT
Weren't they? Matthias was manipulating a magical barrier to prevent Darkspawns to kill the villagers,I don't think a mundane can manipulate a magical barrier. Her daughter attracted a spirit of desire,those are demons who usually cares only to take mages,they don't want to merge themselves with mundanes,among all the people in the village that spirit wanted only one of these two. Matthias manipulated a magical barrier, yes. What I mean is that the game didn't state that they were mages. Let's assume they are mages, then what about Wilmod? Is he also a mage? Those two are mages,otherwise the demon of desire wouldn't had bother to choose them as targets,the demon wanted their magical powers. I don't remember who is Whilmond if he is a mundane than he can't become an abomination since those beings are by definition possessed mages( those ugly looking creatures in the Circle)mundanes can't be mutated like that by the demons they can only be possessed without having their bodies and souls merged with the demons.
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Post by secretrare on Apr 8, 2017 2:13:56 GMT
Aside from uber powerful mages like Solas/Flemeth and their ambitions,my issue with mages is blood magic. It's a school of magic that allows mind control,so any good blood mage can brainwash people to force them to commit a crime for them,and then there is no way you could tell if that crime was committed because the perosn in question was mind controlled or because was his/her own deed. If it were that simple, why the mages tolerate the Circles quietly? The Templars are defenseless against blood magic ... or is it not even so dangerous? I do not understand what you've said in both of your post as you keep using strawmans on my arguments. The discussion was about the abominations,they cannot be mundanes they can only be created from mages. Also why the hell you mentioned Meredith on a completely different conversation?
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Post by Mark7 on Apr 8, 2017 2:23:17 GMT
Abominations are the product of a mage merged with a spirit,Wynne is quite clear on that,therefore possessed mundanes(like the templar brainwashed by the spirit of desire in the circle tower)cannot be classified as abominations. and they aren't as strong as abominations.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 8, 2017 2:35:39 GMT
If it were that simple, why the mages tolerate the Circles quietly? The Templars are defenseless against blood magic ... or is it not even so dangerous? I do not understand what you've said in both of your post as you keep using strawmans on my arguments. The discussion was about the abominations,they cannot be mundanes they can only be created from mages. Also why the hell you mentioned Meredith on a completely different conversation? Meredith is dangerous to whom the mages?Because as far as I'm concerned mages were those who had to face mostly of Meredith actions not mundanes and in act 3 she was brainwashed by a magical tool that just is proof that magic is dangerous wheter you like it or not,that's a fact. No, the discussion about that a politician, with such a power, than Loghain never deserves capital punishment, because don't dangerous anymore, and the Warden, who executed him, just a filthy criminal. But if a mage did something, for example, Anders, deserves a capital punishment, because he's dangerous. I think, both decisions are good. (In the case of Anders, with some specific conditions) If Warden thinks, that Loghain deserved the death punishment, and executes him, or let Alistar execute him, s/he makes it well. If Warden thinks, that Loghain will useful as Warden, or wants to give him a chance to redeem himself, and recruit him, s/he makes it well. If Hawke thinks, that Anders deserves death punishment, because innocent people died in the explosion, and executes him, s/he makes it well. If Hawke agrees with him, and let him finish his work, s/he makes it well. But Hawke, who crushed Anders, and forced him to support Templars, s/he makes a wrong thing. About the Abominations: Wilmod was able to summon demons. Wilmod was a Templar. Magic is dangerous. Yes. Mages are dangerous. But stupid mundanes, as Meredith, who use a magical thing, because can't resist the temptation, dangerous just as the Mages. And don't forget Lord Seeker Lucius! You know... And what I said? You mentioned the blood magic. The Templars are defenseless against this. But if the blood mages so dangerous, then why don't just leave the Circles? You saw: all little apprentice know the blood magic in the Circles, if interest in it... Jowan wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but knew...
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Almila_Lavellan
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 8, 2017 12:18:22 GMT
Matthias manipulated a magical barrier, yes. What I mean is that the game didn't state that they were mages. Let's assume they are mages, then what about Wilmod? Is he also a mage? Those two are mages,otherwise the demon of desire wouldn't had bother to choose them as targets,the demon wanted their magical powers. I don't remember who is Whilmond if he is a mundane than he can't become an abomination since those beings are by definition possessed mages( those ugly looking creatures in the Circle)mundanes can't be mutated like that by the demons they can only be possessed without having their bodies and souls merged with the demons. You can't just headcanon that they are mages. Where did you see Matthias openly said that he and his daughter are mages? That's just an assumption IMO. Also, I assume you didn't play DA 2? Wilmod . He's an abomination.
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 8, 2017 12:21:59 GMT
Abominations are the product of a mage merged with a spirit,Wynne is quite clear on that,therefore possessed mundanes(like the templar brainwashed by the spirit of desire in the circle tower)cannot be classified as abominations. and they aren't as strong as abominations. I thought quest clearly showed that Wilmod, a templar recruit, was an abomination. Enemies Among Us
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Post by Mark7 on Apr 8, 2017 15:06:13 GMT
Abominations are the product of a mage merged with a spirit,Wynne is quite clear on that,therefore possessed mundanes(like the templar brainwashed by the spirit of desire in the circle tower)cannot be classified as abominations. and they aren't as strong as abominations. I thought quest clearly showed that Wilmod, a templar recruit, was an abomination. Enemies Among UsWilmod is not an abomination,he is a possessed human,the difference between the two is huge. One thing is being possessed by a spirit/demon and one thing is being an abomination(i.e merged with the spirit in body and soul) An abomination made from a demon looks like the image present on the same page you have linked on your previous post,to generate that thing a mage is required a mundane can't do that because demons are unable to merge themselves with people who lack the connection with the fade that mages have,they can at best become possessed but they can't become full abominations. Matthias and her daughter being mages is not a mere assumption,Matthias'father was a mage and both his son and his granddaugther inherited his blood that's way among all the people in the village the demon of desire was only attracted by them,they just happen to have never been trained in magic unlike their father who was a great scholar. Matthias'daughter is a child and at her age magical powers cannot be manifested yet,a mage cannot manifest magic until is at least around 9-12 years old,only the demon of desire was able to understand that the girl and her father were mages because as Cole said in DAI,Spirit can sense magic and can detect mages(Not even Templars can do that) I've never seen a mundane being able to manipulate magic like Matthias unless they are Rare spirit warriors and sice he is not a spirit warrior then he must be a mage.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 8, 2017 15:21:28 GMT
I thought quest clearly showed that Wilmod, a templar recruit, was an abomination. Enemies Among UsHe is not an abomination just a possessed human. An abomination looks like exactly like the image present on the same page you have linked on your previous post in regard to the abominations,to generate that thing a mage is required a mundane can't do that. He became ABOMINATION. Did you saw that scene? Easier if a Mage does it, because a Mage attracts the demons, true. But not excluded, that a mundane, or even a tranquil to become possessed and abomination. And a mundane can deal with demons... Lord Seeker Lucius. Yes again. And an idiot, as Meredith, who plays with dangerous magical things, because thinks that s/he is strong enough to handle it. Sounds just as a blood mage, yes?
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 8, 2017 15:28:02 GMT
I thought quest clearly showed that Wilmod, a templar recruit, was an abomination. Enemies Among UsHe is not an abomination just a possessed human. An abomination looks like exactly like the image present on the same page you have linked on your previous post in regard to the abominations,to generate that thing a mage is required a mundane can't do that. So you know better than the writers of whole questline? The questline openly says that the Blood Mages try to turn templars into abominations and you don't accept. Also, an abomination's powers are dependent on the demon's power as the codex and wiki page state: Most of the world does not know, however, that the strength of an abomination depends entirely on the power of the demon that possesses the mage. Thus, the magnitude of threat an abomination can pose is dependent on the type of demon that possesses the mage. Demonic PossessionAnyway, I don't want to derail the thread more than that. It's obvious you'll continue saying the same things over and over and I don't have time for this. Edit: Not everyone who has a mage grandfather and/or father is a mage. I already said game didn't explicitly state he was a mage so that's why I didn't count him as a mage. "Let's assume that they are mages, (again, because writing that once obviously isn't enough) then Wilmod? The quest states that mages can turn someone into abomination. Even Cullen says this in that video but I presume you didn't bother to watch.
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Mark7
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 117 Likes: 125
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May 10, 2018 14:18:45 GMT
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Mark7
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Mar 14, 2017 18:18:55 GMT
March 2017
mark7
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by Mark7 on Apr 8, 2017 15:34:43 GMT
He is not an abomination just a possessed human. An abomination looks like exactly like the image present on the same page you have linked on your previous post in regard to the abominations,to generate that thing a mage is required a mundane can't do that. He became ABOMINATION. Did you saw that scene? Easier if a Mage does it, because a Mage attracts the demons, true. But not excluded, that a mundane, or even a tranquil to become possessed and abomination. Are you kidding me? Yes I saw the scene and he did not Became an Abomination he turned into a Shade which is a demon not an abomination,please don't spread misinformation.
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Almila_Lavellan
N2
"No, no. Let's not and say we did."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 121
Prime Likes: 110
Posts: 151 Likes: 275
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Mar 20, 2021 17:57:30 GMT
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Almila_Lavellan
"No, no. Let's not and say we did."
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August 2016
almilalavellan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Apr 8, 2017 15:38:43 GMT
He became ABOMINATION. Did you saw that scene? Easier if a Mage does it, because a Mage attracts the demons, true. But not excluded, that a mundane, or even a tranquil to become possessed and abomination. Are you kidding me? Yes I saw the scene and he did not Became an Abomination he turned into a Shade which is a demon not an abomination,please don't spread misinformation. Not every abomination looks like that picture on the Abomination page. Remember that Uldred was also an abomination.
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