Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 1, 2018 3:00:04 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaider Now @genevrael reminds me she wasn't the very first female dev at BioWare, she was the first female *designer*. Oops! I should have known that.
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Also Solasmancer Prime.
Cori Nicole @genevrael And Alistair's first love.
Jo Berry @joanna_Berry I've been a writer for games since 2008, working at @bioware / @ea on Star Wars: The Old Republic, Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda. I work with amazing teams and get to write for amazing worlds. #girlsbehindthegames #womenbehindthegames
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 3:20:36 GMT
You answered your own question. Without a good editor, PW thinks “more than half” is the same as “almost all”. BTW, mathematically, almost all is always more than half, but no doubt it’s the other direction you are concerned about. Even so, there are many values most people would consider the same. For example, if there are 4 writers total, 3 women is both more than half and almost all. For 11 total, 8 women would be more than half and almost all. On the other hand, 6 women of 11 would not be considered almost all. So PW is only wrong for some values of more than half. The number of writers in Edmonton and Austin are probably close to, if not exceeds 30. Just going by the writing credits from various games (ME, DA, TOR) Linguistically speaking, "more than half" is a more vague statement that "almost all", and there are plenty of reasons someone would want to be less specific about something. What I wanted to know was if Patrick was correcting the mathematics, or making it more vague because he did not know or for other reasons. Looking into it a bit it seems like he was correcting the mathematics.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 1, 2018 3:56:37 GMT
I remember Hrungr pointing out here that the twitter started to hint at it last year, also the leak from the Sunless Sea guy last year. Also Luke Barrett comes on here to hint from time to time Here's an article that says it started last year: pcgamesn.com/dragon-age-4/dragon-age-4-release-date-characters-storySo, just wondering why they had themselves so spread thin that they either didn't hire more people (EA has 4 billion incoming this last year alone) or re think the idea of letting one of two flagship BW titles die an awful death(Mass Effect) and sit for at least 2 years on the other (Dragon Age) so they can complete with Bungie. Just trying to understand what the thinking might have been, other than greed. I have a feeling they know they are gambling with Bioware's future and just don't give a crap. They began hinting as early as February 2016 - just look at the start of the thread. That's not bad, considering that at least until September 2015 they were working on DLC for DAI and still supporting last DA game. Also - not sure about you, but I don't know the details of how the making of big budget RPG should look like, yet something tells me that them not assembling full team and going full steam doesn't mean that they haven't been actually working on the game. In fact, I distinctly remember Hrungr mentioning multiple times that a longer pre-production time is beneficial for the game, since it's then when prototypes are made, things are hashed out and if it goes well, it means smoother production later in development cycle. One of the things that got MEA was its messy pre-prod time after all. Yup! I'll just add that that the small team had been working on the next DA grew, at least for a while, after MEA wrapped up. But we don't know a whole lot about what happened afterward with team juggling and Anthem. But there is still a team working DA and just a question of what aspects of the game they're working on. I'm hoping with this time they'll continue to refine the gameplay, massage the writing, and so on. Games are rarely afforded this kind of time to do these things. So in the long run this could work out to be a good thing...
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 1, 2018 5:11:52 GMT
You answered your own question. Without a good editor, PW thinks “more than half” is the same as “almost all”. BTW, mathematically, almost all is always more than half, but no doubt it’s the other direction you are concerned about. Even so, there are many values most people would consider the same. For example, if there are 4 writers total, 3 women is both more than half and almost all. For 11 total, 8 women would be more than half and almost all. On the other hand, 6 women of 11 would not be considered almost all. So PW is only wrong for some values of more than half. The number of writers in Edmonton and Austin are probably close to, if not exceeds 30. Just going by the writing credits from various games (ME, DA, TOR) Linguistically speaking, "more than half" is a more vague statement that "almost all", and there are plenty of reasons someone would want to be less specific about something. What I wanted to know was if Patrick was correcting the mathematics, or making it more vague because he did not know or for other reasons. Looking into it a bit it seems like he was correcting the mathematics. Sort of a tangent, but this kind of counting confusion happens a lot with minorities. If it’s unusual to see a woman/racial minority/lgbtq person/etc. in a specific role, the few people who fall in that category stick in people’s minds more. Also, because movies and TV tend to have a lower proportion of women and other minorities vs. real life, people’s intuitive sense of what’s “average” gets even further skewed (they might think 30% women “looks like” an even split, for example). So if people aren’t carefully adding up the numbers in their head, their intuition will over-count the representation of minorities in the group. Sometimes by a lot. (I’m reminded of a time I heard a coworker confidently claim his team was “almost half women”... when referring to a team with over a dozen people total, exactly two of whom were women)
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 7:03:06 GMT
Sort of a tangent, but this kind of counting confusion happens a lot with minorities. If it’s unusual to see a woman/racial minority/lgbtq person/etc. in a specific role, the few people who fall in that category stick in people’s minds more. Also, because movies and TV tend to have a lower proportion of women and other minorities vs. real life, people’s intuitive sense of what’s “average” gets even further skewed (they might think 30% women “looks like” an even split, for example). So if people aren’t carefully adding up the numbers in their head, their intuition will over-count the representation of minorities in the group. Sometimes by a lot. (I’m reminded of a time I heard a coworker confidently claim his team was “almost half women”... when referring to a team with over a dozen people total, exactly two of whom were women) Heh, I was going to ask (light-heartedly of course) if "almost all" the writers at Bioware are women, how come all the lead writers seem to be men (Ian Ryan took over from Charles Boyd on The Old Republic, Patrick Weekes took over from David Gaider on Dragon Age, Chris Schlerf was the lead writer on Andromeda, and someone like Karypshyn would probably be the lead writer on Anthem). But I can't toss that question out there any more
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Post by apollexander on Feb 1, 2018 11:07:08 GMT
Sort of a tangent, but this kind of counting confusion happens a lot with minorities. If it’s unusual to see a woman/racial minority/lgbtq person/etc. in a specific role, the few people who fall in that category stick in people’s minds more. Also, because movies and TV tend to have a lower proportion of women and other minorities vs. real life, people’s intuitive sense of what’s “average” gets even further skewed (they might think 30% women “looks like” an even split, for example). So if people aren’t carefully adding up the numbers in their head, their intuition will over-count the representation of minorities in the group. Sometimes by a lot. (I’m reminded of a time I heard a coworker confidently claim his team was “almost half women”... when referring to a team with over a dozen people total, exactly two of whom were women) Heh, I was going to ask (light-heartedly of course) if "almost all" the writers at Bioware are women, how come all the lead writers seem to be men (Ian Ryan took over from Charles Boyd on The Old Republic, Patrick Weekes took over from David Gaider on Dragon Age, Chris Schlerf was the lead writer on Andromeda, and someone like Karypshyn would probably be the lead writer on Anthem). But I can't toss that question out there any more Maybe many female writers were newly hired compared to some senior guys. I can only recognize one female writer who had served long, Sheryl Chee. As I know, Cathleen Rootsaert was one of the three lead writers of MEA. Jennifer Hepler was almost the 'second lead writer' of DA2.
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Post by river82 on Feb 1, 2018 11:24:56 GMT
Maybe many female writers were newly hired compared to some senior guys. I can only recognize one female writer who had served long, Sheryl Chee. As I know, Cathleen Rootsaert was one of the three lead writers of MEA. Jennifer Hepler was almost the 'second lead writer' of DA2. Mac Walters worked on two games before being made lead writer on Mass Effect, and Chris Sclerf was imported from Bungie.
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 1, 2018 15:19:45 GMT
Art2Key @art2key @joanna_Berry, I don't know if this has been asked... How do you get into writing for the gaming world?
Jo Berry @joanna_Berry If you want to get into game writing, the best place to start is to make a game. Grab Twine, Game Maker, StoryNexus, or the modding tools for your favourite title, and work in those to learn the basics of interactive writing.
More thoughts and suggestions below:
Study games as you play them. Ask questions. What games made you want to write for them and why? What aspects of writing do they do well? What do they do badly? Play outside your preferred genre and look at how other titles tell a story in different ways.
Look at what kind of game writing you want to do. AAA or indie? RPGs? Shooters? Fun text adventures? That should help narrow down what studios you'd be interested in writing for (if any) or what kind of titles really get you interested.
As said above, making a small game will teach you a lot of initial skills. Plus having a game in your portfolio will immediately make you stand out from other writing candidates. Just make sure it's *finished* and that you've tested it as rigorously as possible.
If you're interested in AAA, I'd strongly recommend learning to write in screenplay format. Grab the screenplays for your favourite films and study them. Scriptwriting software like Final Draft is industry standard, but Scrivener also has a scriptwriting function.
If you're asked to complete a writing test for a studio, you'll be given submission guidelines on what to send them. FOLLOW THOSE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER. Part of the test is whether you can write to requirements, because that's a large part of the job.
Make sure you can write concisely, with clarity, and with personality. Concisely: VO is expensive. Clarity: players need to know clearly what to do and where to go. Personality: a character might only have a handful of lines, ever, so really make 'em pop. 🙂
Also, make sure your velocity is good. In AAA at least, there will be several departments waiting for your work so they can do theirs. Learn to do a good job fast and finish.
Be a good communicator and collaborator. You'll be working with several different creative disciplines which all have their own aims and technical restrictions. Learn what the engine can do and make sure your writing takes that into account.
And finally: be willing to let go. At some point, a piece of writing you've lavished time and love and attention on will get cut and it'll be annoying and disappointing. It'll happen. Expect it, sigh, and then go on to the next thing.
[HASH]DAT
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 1, 2018 18:44:57 GMT
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 1, 2018 19:04:35 GMT
Heyyy... I'm not gonna put a cup on Cass's face.
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Post by Gilli on Feb 1, 2018 19:24:17 GMT
*sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes*
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 1, 2018 19:27:04 GMT
I WAAAAANNT!
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 1, 2018 19:28:19 GMT
*sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes* There, there. I feel your pain.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Feb 1, 2018 19:28:24 GMT
*sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes* *steals Dorian plush, throws it at Gilli* Run!
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Feb 1, 2018 19:28:59 GMT
*sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes* There, there. I feel your pain. Pfft - I helped.
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 1, 2018 19:31:15 GMT
There, there. I feel your pain. Pfft - I helped. My arms are too short! I can't reach top shelves, how am I supposed to reach across the ocean to help!
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Post by Gilli on Feb 1, 2018 19:42:02 GMT
*sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes* There, there. I feel your pain. I wished you could order them on Amazon, or something. I order through amazon.de and if you also order a book, shipping is free. *sees the Dorian plush also on sale* *sighs at the high shipping prizes* *steals Dorian plush, throws it at Gilli* Run! *grabs Dorian plush* Thanks! *runs* Pfft - I helped. My arms are too short! I can't reach top shelves, how am I supposed to reach across the ocean to help! It's the thought that counts.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 1, 2018 19:46:27 GMT
Heyyy... I'm not gonna put a cup on Cass's face. Shame you can't just buy one, as 5/6 are basically just garbage to me and would be a waste of money. On top of that, I have a quite old DA2 coaster with the Kirkwall sigil on it. After many years of use, it doesn't look that great -- stains and worn finish -- and I'd hate to do that to Dorian.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 1, 2018 19:55:12 GMT
Heyyy... I'm not gonna put a cup on Cass's face. Shame you can't just buy one, as 5/6 are basically just garbage to me and would be a waste of money. On top of that, I have a quite old DA2 coaster with the Kirkwall sigil on it. After many years of use, it doesn't look that great -- stains and worn finish -- and I'd hate to do that to Dorian. The Kirkwall symbol *is* pretty snazzy.
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Post by Kymira on Feb 1, 2018 21:26:37 GMT
Heyyy... I'm not gonna put a cup on Cass's face. Shame you can't just buy one, as 5/6 are basically just garbage to me and would be a waste of money. On top of that, I have a quite old DA2 coaster with the Kirkwall sigil on it. After many years of use, it doesn't look that great -- stains and worn finish -- and I'd hate to do that to Dorian. I need the beautiful Solas one! And I like Sera's romance tarot a lot. I agree it IS a shame you can't just buy one...or two...
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Post by githcheater on Feb 2, 2018 3:20:22 GMT
For a while I was confused as to whether this is the "almost" Twitter thread or the "all" Twitter thread, but now I am just confused about which "garbage" romance coaster can be used with cold beverages.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 2, 2018 3:29:00 GMT
but now I am just confused about which "garbage" romance coaster can be used with cold beverages. Geez you people took my use of the word too seriously. I only romance one person. 5/6 of those coasters in the set would be useless and a waste of money. Is that better? It wasn't an indictment against any of those other five romance options, only a commentary on the inability to purchase a single one.
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Post by githcheater on Feb 2, 2018 4:33:52 GMT
but now I am just confused about which "garbage" romance coaster can be used with cold beverages. Geez you people took my use of the word too seriously. I only romance one person. 5/6 of those coasters in the set would be useless and a waste of money. Is that better? It wasn't an indictment against any of those other five romance options, only a commentary on the inability to purchase a single one. I apologize. I did not intend my post as an insult, but rather as a flip comment at several posts about the proper use of coasters In hindsight, I should have not have quoted you or used the word "garbage", and instead just stated that I was confused as to whether it was proper to use the romance coasters for cold beverages. Please be thankful that I did not ask if I could sing Monty Python songs and use the romance coasters as seat cushions ...
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Post by eskiya on Feb 2, 2018 4:34:18 GMT
but now I am just confused about which "garbage" romance coaster can be used with cold beverages. Geez you people took my use of the word too seriously. I only romance one person. 5/6 of those coasters in the set would be useless and a waste of money. Is that better? It wasn't an indictment against any of those other five romance options, only a commentary on the inability to purchase a single one. I think they mean that this is the twitter thread and it's dissolved into talk about coasters.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 2, 2018 4:50:30 GMT
I was confused as to whether it was proper to use the romance coasters for cold beverages. The description on the website says they are "laminated card on top with cork backing." I mean, you could use them as coasters. But as I mentioned in my remarks about the Kirkwall coaster (which is metal), time will eventually have its way with it if you actually use it regularly. Here is the coaster. This is tarnish damage. Washing it does nothing. This coaster is metal, whereas the tarot is laminated plastic, so who knows.
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