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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 2:04:04 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaider
It's really surreal to read about everyone else being at the BioWare Christmas party. First year I'm missing it.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 2:34:09 GMT
Pat @miracl3work3r5 year award at @bioware! 😆 Time flies.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 10, 2016 2:37:47 GMT
Pat @miracl3work3r5 year award at @bioware! 😆 Time flies. Would be more impressive if he had a five-year-beard.   |
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 3:12:24 GMT
Jay Watamaniuk @jaywatamaniuk #biowareparty
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 10, 2016 3:24:22 GMT
Amen! I don't want to abandon voiced PCs, but I also don't want them to repeat what I just read to myself. Maybe someday some dev will make an RPG where all you do is indicate your intention and then a RECORD light goes on and you say your own words into the game. Once. And then you click a DONE button and the NPCs react to your selected intention. The voice recording isn't necessary saved, except on your Twitch stream or whatever -- but that's the point. You're performing for yourself or your followers, not for the NPCs or the game. The game doesn't need your words. In for a dime, in for a dollar. That's just you, though. And perhaps many other players as well, but it doesn't apply to ME. I play with the subtitles on for the first few plays and I already read and hear everything anyway. Frankly, I find it insulting that they continue with the same lines about the player not knowing what they want, or that implementing a toggle -- yes, the dreaded toggle -- would be confusing if they accidentally turn it on. Keep in mind, I don't say anything about the practicality of implementing it in the game from a developer standpoint. On Ye Olde BSN, they did actually say that there was concern that players would mistakenly turn a toggle on, dislike that feature, and not know how to turn it off. That's fucking stupid. While I am normally happy to give new and inexperienced players a LOT of leeway -- I've written guides that take this into account and explain things in minute detail -- people need to be held accountable for certain things, and purposely rooting around in menu options is one of those things. They're saying that people are so damn dumb that they won't recall that they turned a feature on. [edit] To say nothing of the fact that the function of whatever option is supposed to be explained in the menu item itself. Now, if you want to talk about how it would be a pain to implement it so it works well with the UI, it would look messy and clutter the screen, the developers just don't want to for their own reasons, they like the paraphrase system, and any numbers of things, I am totally with that and happy to discuss the merits of ALL of those. But what I outlined above? No. I wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to, but I guess you mean a toggle for disabling the VO for the PC? I agree, actually. Seems like a simple thing to do, given that the speech will be captioned anyway. The argument about customer support is lame. So lame, there had to be another reason they just didn't want to confess to. |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 10, 2016 3:27:39 GMT
Jason Hill @lazertuna This is what's happening #xmasshitshow2016 Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw Our staff party is ski chalet themed. I’m not really playing along, but dang @thefiddzz and @lazertuna Ah, themed. Okay. That explains cornering the market on cable-knit sweaters. |
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 4:08:09 GMT
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes This is fine.
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2016 4:43:25 GMT
^^^^
He gestures vigorously, and it goes flying into someone's face.
Is what I immediately imagined.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 5:21:39 GMT
^^^^ He gestures vigorously, and it goes flying into someone's face. Is what I immediately imagined. I'm just wondering who thought surrounding the burners with wood and newsprint was a good idea...  |
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Post by phoray on Dec 10, 2016 5:23:21 GMT
^^^^ He gestures vigorously, and it goes flying into someone's face. Is what I immediately imagined. I'm just wondering who thought surrounding the burners with wood and newsprint was a good idea... Are you mad? We humans have mastered fire. What could go wrong? That'd be a terrifying way for a Christmas party to end. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 10, 2016 7:28:05 GMT
That's just you, though. And perhaps many other players as well, but it doesn't apply to ME. I play with the subtitles on for the first few plays and I already read and hear everything anyway. Frankly, I find it insulting that they continue with the same lines about the player not knowing what they want, or that implementing a toggle -- yes, the dreaded toggle -- would be confusing if they accidentally turn it on. Keep in mind, I don't say anything about the practicality of implementing it in the game from a developer standpoint. On Ye Olde BSN, they did actually say that there was concern that players would mistakenly turn a toggle on, dislike that feature, and not know how to turn it off. That's fucking stupid. While I am normally happy to give new and inexperienced players a LOT of leeway -- I've written guides that take this into account and explain things in minute detail -- people need to be held accountable for certain things, and purposely rooting around in menu options is one of those things. They're saying that people are so damn dumb that they won't recall that they turned a feature on. [edit] To say nothing of the fact that the function of whatever option is supposed to be explained in the menu item itself. Now, if you want to talk about how it would be a pain to implement it so it works well with the UI, it would look messy and clutter the screen, the developers just don't want to for their own reasons, they like the paraphrase system, and any numbers of things, I am totally with that and happy to discuss the merits of ALL of those. But what I outlined above? No. I wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to, but I guess you mean a toggle for disabling the VO for the PC? I agree, actually. Seems like a simple thing to do, given that the speech will be captioned anyway. The argument about customer support is lame. So lame, there had to be another reason they just didn't want to confess to. No, I am definitely not referring to that. I'm a fan of the VO, and the voiced protagonist, and I don't want it to go anywhere. In fact, I can barely stand to play DAO now for the lack of it; I get though Skyrim all right since most of that game involves other stuff. I'm referring to a toggle for showing the full line. They can't do a toggle for the VO. The games are built around that, with camera shots and so on. DAO was built around a silent protagonist. We never saw them during cinematic conversations unless it was some situation where we saw an emotional reaction. Every other time we had an over-the-shoulder camera view of the conversation partner. If you had a toggle for the VO, it would be the same game as DA2/I, but the camera going to the PC would show them talking with no sound. I think that would be silly looking, especially since everyone else will still be talking. Another thing is the example of humor mentioned in the linked blog post. Yeah, the lines have to be written in a humorous way, but to my mind, most of the humor comes from the delivery of the line, which comes down to voice acting. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't have people heaping high praise for both purple Hawke VAs and how damn funny they were. Saying that there would be less humor greatly diminishes the contribution of the VA in those cases. I believe them when they say they've tested these things and it didn't work out. After all, they're not making a game for me, they're making a game for everyone. But responses on this issue never go far enough for me, never answer the exact questions that I have, and so leave me frustrated and annoyed. But I've ranted enough about this issue for this thread. |
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Post by Reznore on Dec 10, 2016 12:26:29 GMT
After Fallout 4 , I'm pro giving the full lines to players.
Granted Fallout 4 paraphrase system was bad and sometimes all you had was "sarcastic" .
After modding this issue out , I can say seeing the full lines is way better .
The main problem would be the UI, imho.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 10, 2016 13:59:08 GMT
To my mind the VO would not be an issue if they paraphrased correctly. That has been the problem up to now, that at times the prompt in no way seems to match what is said, either because there is insufficient information to make an informed choice (one word is just not enough in some cases) or it was just misleading in what the prompt suggested. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a silent protagonist and can't see the point of being given the full conversation option before hearing it; simply give a bit more thought about how they indicate what will follow if you choose a particular option.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 10, 2016 15:37:32 GMT
EvilChrisPriestly @theevilchris
Join me in congratulating my buddy @bioware 's Luke Kristjanson on 20 years working for BioWare! He's written some great stuff in 2 decades.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 10, 2016 19:02:45 GMT
Well no, I don't necessarily mean they have to have a grand over-arching storyline, but just write each game as if the player is knowledgeable about the world without having to explain some of the more complicated dynamics over and over again. I like the exposition method of having it be the player character who can exposites to another character. It allows new players the option to be introduced to the world through exposition without it being odd that the player character would not have the knowledge of the world. New players can select the option and old players don't have to listen through it.
It may sometimes run into the As You Know trope but I like having the player character be the one who explain something if it makes sense for their character to know it or even have a discussion with someone about the topic. I like having the player character be able to demonstrate knowledge: it's why I liked the Knowledge perks and why I like the different races being able to talk about their culture. I liked this back in Origins such as when a Dalish Warden could talk to Alistair and could mention that their clan would plant a tree on the deceased's grave.
Yes, yes, there was the "Who is Mythal?" moment. I know, I know but there were a lot of other knowledgeable moments that I thought outweighed the occasional oversight glaring as it might have been.
Now that I think about it, I think it could have been neat for Shepard to have the option of mentioning something about where they grew up such as Colonist Shepard mentioning something about how people on Mindoir did things, Space Shepard about life on station or ship and Earth Shepard mentioning something about their life on Earth. But then, I would have liked that Shepard had options to have more moments like this. I really liked the Inquisitor being able to talk about life before and whether they liked it or their relationships to other people in said life. Could definitely have done with more but I liked that idea a lot.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 11, 2016 2:43:06 GMT
Just a bit on what Patrick's been up to lately...Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Me: This section makes me really uncomfortable and sad. Also Me: Think of how your readers will feel! douane ⛔️ zoll @hanlspever the path of man: we hurt ourselves to hurt others. Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes For clarification: Writing I was talking about is personal novel. Not sure when I get to say more. Still not sure how NDAs work for books! Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Let's be honest: if I were doing work-work on weekend, I'd have found some passive-aggressive way to tag @mike_Laidlaw and @biomarkdarrah. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahwait...
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Post by theblackadder13 on Dec 11, 2016 18:28:19 GMT
Just a bit on what Patrick's been up to lately...Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Me: This section makes me really uncomfortable and sad. Also Me: Think of how your readers will feel! douane ⛔️ zoll @hanlspever the path of man: we hurt ourselves to hurt others. Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes For clarification: Writing I was talking about is personal novel. Not sure when I get to say more. Still not sure how NDAs work for books! Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Let's be honest: if I were doing work-work on weekend, I'd have found some passive-aggressive way to tag @mike_Laidlaw and @biomarkdarrah. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahwait... Wait, if it's a personal novel why does he have an NDA? |
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 11, 2016 18:35:58 GMT
Wait, if it's a personal novel why does he have an NDA? I'm pretty sure he's not self-publishing, so the NDA is likely from his publisher. |
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 11, 2016 18:41:59 GMT
Wait, if it's a personal novel why does he have an NDA? I'm pretty sure he's not self-publishing, so the NDA is likely from his publisher. Yeah, it's the start of a new series (not tied to Rogues of the Republic).... |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 11, 2016 19:22:50 GMT
Wait, if it's a personal novel why does he have an NDA? I'm pretty sure he's not self-publishing, so the NDA is likely from his publisher. There has to be more to it. Absent a media tie-in, an NDA on unpublished novels doesn't make much sense. Why wouldn't a publisher want some buzz about a future novel they presumably have exclusive rights to publish? It's free marketing. If no one has exclusive rights -- it's totally freelance -- who would be demanding an NDA? That argues for a media tie-in of some sort. Probably not Bioware related. Lego novel maybe? |
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 11, 2016 19:25:39 GMT
Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw Attn: @patrickweekes @biomarykirby @sherylchee P░pp░n B░rr @pippinbarr░ ░ GAME IDEA ░ ░ YOU ARE ░ ░ URBANE AND WITTY ░ ░ AND GLIDE FROM SOIREE TO SOIREE ░ ░ PRESSING X TO QUIP ░ ░ PRESSING Y TO SMIRK ░ ░ Mary Kirby @biomarykirby BUT WHAT BUTTON DO I PRESS TO MINGLE???? Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw The best designs evolve from simple starts. Time to start some prototypes! 
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 11, 2016 19:27:00 GMT
Sounds like a Dorian simulator to me.
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Post by LFS on Dec 11, 2016 19:38:35 GMT
I'm pretty sure he's not self-publishing, so the NDA is likely from his publisher. There has to be more to it. Absent a media tie-in, an NDA on unpublished novels doesn't make much sense. Why wouldn't a publisher want some buzz about a future novel they presumably have exclusive rights to publish? It's free marketing. If no one has exclusive rights -- it's totally freelance -- who would be demanding an NDA? That argues for a media tie-in of some sort. Probably not Bioware related. Lego novel maybe? He freely admits he has no idea how book NDAs work; it's entirely possible there isn't one--at least in the sense we understand them. That said, it's absolutely not unreasonable for a publisher to want details held under wraps until the product is actually in a more marketable state. There's always the chance the they hate what he writes and drop him. ;p |
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Post by eriador117 on Dec 11, 2016 19:42:43 GMT
Jason Hill @lazertuna This is what's happening #xmasshitshow2016 Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw Our staff party is ski chalet themed. I’m not really playing along, but dang @thefiddzz and @lazertuna Ah, themed. Okay. That explains cornering the market on cable-knit sweaters. Aren't those cricket jumpers, rather than skiing ones? And they have white trousers as well, it's cricket Hubby, a massive cricket fan says they are cricket outfits as well  |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 11, 2016 19:48:17 GMT
Ah, themed. Okay. That explains cornering the market on cable-knit sweaters. Aren't those cricket jumpers, rather than skiing ones? And they have white trousers as well, it's cricket Hubby, a massive cricket fan says they are cricket outfits as well Just be thankful they didn't show up in hockey jerseys. Course, that's probably their everyday businesswear. Not a slur on Canadians at all ... nope. Never. |
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