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Post by Chiantirose on Oct 7, 2016 16:04:51 GMT
So I'm playing around with old DA:I saves and picking different responses. The scene you get with Cullen after Halamshiral, where he tell you he doesn't want to move on from the Inquisitor. I never ever picked anything other than the one that locks in the romance, but now I was curious. Oh man ... You can either tell him you want to be just friends or just break up with him. The look he gives the Inquisitor when you tell him you want to be friends, it's this hurt, confused, angry look. I felt like I kicked a puppy! He doesn't seem as angry when you just tell him you want to break up. Ugh, never again! I tested all of the breakup responses with the romances I did. I think his "friends" response was the worse. Of course, it's also one of those classic things men hate to hear, but it's usually said when there's only been a little casual dating at most and the woman first realizes the man is more serious, not after the woman's started something and been snogging with him publicly. Kind of made me think it was animated as a guilt trip for women who "friendzone," which rather fits with a lot of their work for women's romances. I don't think there is anything to feel guilty or angry about if someone friendzones someone, as long as it is done as soon as possible. If you realize there are no feelings there for that person, then stop the game. In the Inquisitor's case, the relationship has going on for a while and Cullen has told her several times how he feels about her. I totally understand his reaction, he is completely in the right, I'd also would have been "wtf". When you break up with him, it's the whole "This relationship is not going anywhere" which I can understand that an Inquisitor would not want to get too close to anyone, because she/he is worried she'll/he'll die or is too distracted with everything, too busy for a relationship. Cullen might understand that more, because he also was hesitant at first. The "let's be friends" break up would have fit better earlier, after Halamshiral it just looks like she want's to break it off, but doesn't have the guts to say why, so she just throws the friends line, imo. I think it's right up there with one of my ex's breaking up with me after 2 months, telling me I'm too nice and he doesn't deserve me .... What? You just figured out that I'm a decent human being? |
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Post by tishina on Oct 7, 2016 21:35:02 GMT
I tested all of the breakup responses with the romances I did. I think his "friends" response was the worse. Of course, it's also one of those classic things men hate to hear, but it's usually said when there's only been a little casual dating at most and the woman first realizes the man is more serious, not after the woman's started something and been snogging with him publicly. Kind of made me think it was animated as a guilt trip for women who "friendzone," which rather fits with a lot of their work for women's romances. I don't think there is anything to feel guilty or angry about if someone friendzones someone, as long as it is done as soon as possible. If you realize there are no feelings there for that person, then stop the game. In the Inquisitor's case, the relationship has going on for a while and Cullen has told her several times how he feels about her. I totally understand his reaction, he is completely in the right, I'd also would have been "wtf". When you break up with him, it's the whole "This relationship is not going anywhere" which I can understand that an Inquisitor would not want to get too close to anyone, because she/he is worried she'll/he'll die or is too distracted with everything, too busy for a relationship. Cullen might understand that more, because he also was hesitant at first. The "let's be friends" break up would have fit better earlier, after Halamshiral it just looks like she want's to break it off, but doesn't have the guts to say why, so she just throws the friends line, imo. I think it's right up there with one of my ex's breaking up with me after 2 months, telling me I'm too nice and he doesn't deserve me .... What? You just figured out that I'm a decent human being? I don't think friendzoning ought to be considered a "thing" at all, honestly, especially since it usually means some guy felt entitled to sex and didn't get it. But yeah, the timing in this case made no sense unless you buy the idea that women commonly do that to break their hearts. Now, breaking up for other reasons and then asking to remain friends, that happens (and can even work out if there was anything more than expecting sex to begin with---one of my daughter's ex's was at her wedding.) I can see them giving an Inquisitor a fumbling, obviously false reason for breaking up. But that one combined with the kicked puppy look...? Totally meant to be a guilt trip for women. |
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Post by Artemis on Oct 7, 2016 21:59:38 GMT
Why am I not surprised. More women in video game development! That's all I have to say about that  (p.s. Oh yes of course men can be very sensitive to these issues and know better than to put stuff like that into games. But still, more women in gaming!) |
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Post by R2s Muse on Oct 8, 2016 10:53:38 GMT
I don't think there is anything to feel guilty or angry about if someone friendzones someone, as long as it is done as soon as possible. If you realize there are no feelings there for that person, then stop the game. In the Inquisitor's case, the relationship has going on for a while and Cullen has told her several times how he feels about her. I totally understand his reaction, he is completely in the right, I'd also would have been "wtf". When you break up with him, it's the whole "This relationship is not going anywhere" which I can understand that an Inquisitor would not want to get too close to anyone, because she/he is worried she'll/he'll die or is too distracted with everything, too busy for a relationship. Cullen might understand that more, because he also was hesitant at first. The "let's be friends" break up would have fit better earlier, after Halamshiral it just looks like she want's to break it off, but doesn't have the guts to say why, so she just throws the friends line, imo. I think it's right up there with one of my ex's breaking up with me after 2 months, telling me I'm too nice and he doesn't deserve me .... What? You just figured out that I'm a decent human being? I don't think friendzoning ought to be considered a "thing" at all, honestly, especially since it usually means some guy felt entitled to sex and didn't get it. But yeah, the timing in this case made no sense unless you buy the idea that women commonly do that to break their hearts. Now, breaking up for other reasons and then asking to remain friends, that happens (and can even work out if there was anything more than expecting sex to begin with---one of my daughter's ex's was at her wedding.) I can see them giving an Inquisitor a fumbling, obviously false reason for breaking up. But that one combined with the kicked puppy look...? Totally meant to be a guilt trip for women. Agree. I just don't like the concept of "friendzone" at all, regardless of when it's used in a relationship, because it furthers the notion of women as the vending machines of sex that just need kindness coins to work. I'd never thought much about Cullen's breakups, probably since I never really tried them out. Is his animation really that different between 'let's be friends' and 'this isn't going anywhere'? I was just about to defend Bioware, since 'let's just be friends' is far more realistic and less silly than many of their past romance lines (Anders, need a sandwich? :snort:), but him being more hurt by the classic 'let's be friends' is kind of a kick in the gut. Of course, his writer is a woman, although the animator in this case is probably a dude. Hard to say. |
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Post by meanieweenie on Oct 8, 2016 11:20:02 GMT
I don't think friendzoning ought to be considered a "thing" at all, honestly, especially since it usually means some guy felt entitled to sex and didn't get it. But yeah, the timing in this case made no sense unless you buy the idea that women commonly do that to break their hearts. Now, breaking up for other reasons and then asking to remain friends, that happens (and can even work out if there was anything more than expecting sex to begin with---one of my daughter's ex's was at her wedding.) I can see them giving an Inquisitor a fumbling, obviously false reason for breaking up. But that one combined with the kicked puppy look...? Totally meant to be a guilt trip for women. Agree. I just don't like the concept of "friendzone" at all, regardless of when it's used in a relationship, because it furthers the notion of women as the vending machines of sex that just need kindness coins to work. I'd never thought much about Cullen's breakups, probably since I never really tried them out. Is his animation really that different between 'let's be friends' and 'this isn't going anywhere'? I was just about to defend Bioware, since 'let's just be friends' is far more realistic and less silly than many of their past romance lines (Anders, need a sandwich? :snort:), but him being more hurt by the classic 'let's be friends' is kind of a kick in the gut. Of course, his writer is a woman, although the animator in this case is probably a dude. Hard to say. I kind of felt like Cullen's kicked puppy face came as more of an emotional pay off for the player. Meaning, regardless of your intent or feelings, etc... if I'm honest, I would feel worse if my possible LI was totally unaffected by rejection. It would make a really great twist though, wouldn't it? "Cullen, I'm sorry but I'm just not that into you..." "Sure whatever. Hand me that book over there?" "But I thought... you said... wait, what?" "Nah. Totally cool. Moving on!"   |
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Post by tishina on Oct 8, 2016 14:44:43 GMT
I don't think friendzoning ought to be considered a "thing" at all, honestly, especially since it usually means some guy felt entitled to sex and didn't get it. But yeah, the timing in this case made no sense unless you buy the idea that women commonly do that to break their hearts. Now, breaking up for other reasons and then asking to remain friends, that happens (and can even work out if there was anything more than expecting sex to begin with---one of my daughter's ex's was at her wedding.) I can see them giving an Inquisitor a fumbling, obviously false reason for breaking up. But that one combined with the kicked puppy look...? Totally meant to be a guilt trip for women. Agree. I just don't like the concept of "friendzone" at all, regardless of when it's used in a relationship, because it furthers the notion of women as the vending machines of sex that just need kindness coins to work. I'd never thought much about Cullen's breakups, probably since I never really tried them out. Is his animation really that different between 'let's be friends' and 'this isn't going anywhere'? I was just about to defend Bioware, since 'let's just be friends' is far more realistic and less silly than many of their past romance lines (Anders, need a sandwich? :snort:), but him being more hurt by the classic 'let's be friends' is kind of a kick in the gut. Of course, his writer is a woman, although the animator in this case is probably a dude. Hard to say. Yes, that's exactly the problem with the idea of "friendzone." Guys who think of women as sex vending machines. And yes, they're quite different. For "this has no future," he actually takes it pretty well, looks unhappy, but accepting and even answers you. For the "friendzone," he turns and gives you a worse look, not once, but twice, and the second time, his eyes narrow and you can tell he's hurt AND angry and doesn't say a thing. His writer may have been a woman, but that version of the scene has the influence of men on the writing and animation team all over it... |
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Chiantirose
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Post by Chiantirose on Oct 8, 2016 16:33:41 GMT
For the ones curious, here are the two break up options. This is the regular break up. This is the "Let's be Friends" break up. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2016 23:08:12 GMT
Ok, I interpret it more as Cullen just spilled his heart out even though he was riddled with self doubt, (and knowing everything he's been through in DAO & DA2 you have to know he just overcame a great deal of self doubt and fear to be able to express himself like that), and he gets told you just want to be friends, he looks hurt and possibly pissed off at himself for hoping, and then you say I should've said something before, I hope it's not too late, and that's when he gives the angry glare, so I can see it more as him thinking something something like, 'Too late? I just made a complete ass out of myself, opening up to you like that and you could've saved me the embarassment.'
I mean, maybe it had to do with the friendzone thing, but it also could've been from finding out he could've been spared the whole embarassing display had she spoke up sooner...maybe?
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Post by tishina on Oct 8, 2016 23:50:29 GMT
Ok, I interpret it more as Cullen just spilled his heart out even though he was riddled with self doubt, (and knowing everything he's been through in DAO & DA2 you have to know he just overcame a great deal of self doubt and fear to be able to express himself like that), and he gets told you just want to be friends, he looks hurt and possibly pissed off at himself for hoping, and then you say I should've said something before, I hope it's not too late, and that's when he gives the angry glare, so I can see it more as him thinking something something like, 'Too late? I just made a complete ass out of myself, opening up to you like that and you could've saved me the embarassment.' I mean, maybe it had to do with the friendzone thing, but it also could've been from finding out he could've been spared the whole embarassing display had she spoke up sooner...maybe? Then why not the same reaction for both? He opened himself up in both cases. Some of my reaction is just the history of shaming from some of the devs toward women players. They may not consciously mean some of it that way, but...yeah.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 0:07:57 GMT
Ok, I interpret it more as Cullen just spilled his heart out even though he was riddled with self doubt, (and knowing everything he's been through in DAO & DA2 you have to know he just overcame a great deal of self doubt and fear to be able to express himself like that), and he gets told you just want to be friends, he looks hurt and possibly pissed off at himself for hoping, and then you say I should've said something before, I hope it's not too late, and that's when he gives the angry glare, so I can see it more as him thinking something something like, 'Too late? I just made a complete ass out of myself, opening up to you like that and you could've saved me the embarassment.' I mean, maybe it had to do with the friendzone thing, but it also could've been from finding out he could've been spared the whole embarassing display had she spoke up sooner...maybe? Then why not the same reaction for both? He opened himself up in both cases. Some of my reaction is just the history of shaming from some of the devs toward women players. They may not consciously mean some of it that way, but...yeah. Because she never added, "I was meaning to tell, I hope I'm not to late." and she gave the reason that it wasn't going anywhere. He doesn't react to her until the "I hope I'm not too late" comment, before that it looks like he was more mad with himself. |
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Post by R2s Muse on Oct 9, 2016 11:42:42 GMT
For the ones curious, here are the two break up options. This is the regular break up. This is the "Let's be Friends" break up. Holy crap. That really is different. :gulp: :no longer feels any inclination to defend bioware: That's about as classic "obviously she was leading him on; b!tch!" as you can get. |
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Post by R2s Muse on Oct 9, 2016 11:56:21 GMT
Then why not the same reaction for both? He opened himself up in both cases. Some of my reaction is just the history of shaming from some of the devs toward women players. They may not consciously mean some of it that way, but...yeah. Because she never added, "I was meaning to tell, I hope I'm not to late." and she gave the reason that it wasn't going anywhere. He doesn't react to her until the "I hope I'm not too late" comment, before that it looks like he was more mad with himself. Right, but the implication there is that she owed him something in one case, and not in the other. In both cases, she's breaking up with him, so realistically, in both cases, he'd be hurt. But instead in the "let's be friends" version, he's angry. So it's a choice made by the writers and animators, suggesting what she did in the friends case is worse, wounding his manly pride. Both of his reactions are plausible, in either situation. He would be hurt. And angry. But I think what tish is pointing out is that a deliberate choice was made by Bioware to make the 'let's be friends' option somehow be worse, and reflect worse on the Inquisitor. As the concept of "friendzoning" often does. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 15:38:14 GMT
Because she never added, "I was meaning to tell, I hope I'm not to late." and she gave the reason that it wasn't going anywhere. He doesn't react to her until the "I hope I'm not too late" comment, before that it looks like he was more mad with himself. Right, but the implication there is that she owed him something in one case, and not in the other. In both cases, she's breaking up with him, so realistically, in both cases, he'd be hurt. But instead in the "let's be friends" version, he's angry. So it's a choice made by the writers and animators, suggesting what she did in the friends case is worse, wounding his manly pride. Both of his reactions are plausible, in either situation. He would be hurt. And angry. But I think what tish is pointing out is that a deliberate choice was made by Bioware to make the 'let's be friends' option somehow be worse, and reflect worse on the Inquisitor. As the concept of "friendzoning" often does. Well, if that's what it was, then ok. Maybe I'm just too biased in thinking Cullen wouldn't take that route...or maybe I'm sympathetic to his cause.  I have to admit that that was a terrible choice of timing on the Inquisitors part to come out with that one. With everything their relationship had gone through up till that point, she really should've given him some kind of heads up that things weren't going well...(says the woman who never would've picked that option in the first place and thinks any woman who would is a complete moron.)  |
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Post by Chiantirose on Oct 9, 2016 18:07:09 GMT
The "Let's be friends" option shouldn't have been there at that point anymore or should have been differently phrased. The regular break up option was enough. The whole "Let's be friends" option at that point seems like an option to troll Cullen and put out maximum hurt. It's stupid, period. I mean think about it, Inquisitor smooches him on the rampart, then goes out to the romantic lake meet up and smooches some more and then decides to tell Cullen that she wants to remain friends AFTER he pours out his heart .... that's just wrong, I'm sorry. I don't care if the offender is male or female, it's wrong either way.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 19:23:03 GMT
^ Agreed. There were many chances throughout the game to break up with Cullen, even after the first kiss on the battlements. The "Let's be friends" option felt like the Inquisitor played Cullen like a marionette and tossed him to the side once she got bored with him. Oh and hey guys, my first post in this thread. I ninja'd my way in here to read the latest discussion  |
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Post by Artemis on Oct 9, 2016 19:35:58 GMT
So we can assume it's sort of an unrealistic option. It's either there for a player who just wants to be cruel and laugh at the angry/brokenhearted love interest OR it was written/created by someone who thinks friendzoning is a real thing and that women do this to "hurt" men and so this is a viable option.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 20:18:36 GMT
I think it's a throwaway option. If the Inquisitor wants to be friends with Cullen, she could've done that without getting into a romantic relationship with him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 20:21:35 GMT
Just out of curiosity, is Cullen's romance the only one with that option, or do they all have it? I can't remember. If it's only Cullen's, why would they do that?
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Post by Artemis on Oct 9, 2016 20:50:20 GMT
I think it's a throwaway option. If the Inquisitor wants to be friends with Cullen, she could've done that without getting into a romantic relationship with him. Right, so it doesn't make sense. No actual person would do that (unless they had a bizarrely cruel and sadistic mind). So either they wanted to give us the option to role-play such a person OR they actually do think women act like this ("friendzoning" guys) and they want the player character to be punished for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 21:10:54 GMT
Right, so it doesn't make sense. No actual person would do that (unless they had a bizarrely cruel and sadistic mind). So either they wanted to give us the option to role-play such a person OR they actually do think women act like this ("friendzoning" guys) and they want the player character to be punished for it. Yeah, pretty much. Another thing that comes to mind with this option is the consequences, especially when it comes to Cullen's family. No doubt his parents and Mia are going to be furious if they find out what happened. They wouldn't want Cullen serving in the Inquisition after the war is over. |
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Post by Artemis on Oct 9, 2016 23:54:51 GMT
Well, I guess we should all just be grateful for what we have; I mean this is still progress, isn't it?  10 years ago we'd have had five straight male romances, one straight female romance, one hidden lesbian romance, and zero gay ones |
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Post by Chiantirose on Oct 10, 2016 0:08:43 GMT
That's true. They're making progress, lol .... with little hiccups on the way |
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Post by Cantina on Oct 10, 2016 0:19:36 GMT
Playing DAI for shits and giggles. Taking screenies throughout-again. So here have this Cullen I just took.    |
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August 2016
chiantirose
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Katrin82
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Post by Chiantirose on Oct 10, 2016 0:41:01 GMT
Right, so it doesn't make sense. No actual person would do that (unless they had a bizarrely cruel and sadistic mind). So either they wanted to give us the option to role-play such a person OR they actually do think women act like this ("friendzoning" guys) and they want the player character to be punished for it. Yeah, pretty much. Another thing that comes to mind with this option is the consequences, especially when it comes to Cullen's family. No doubt his parents and Mia are going to be furious if they find out what happened. They wouldn't want Cullen serving in the Inquisition after the war is over. I'm pretty sure his parents are dead, died when the Blight hit Ferelden. But I'm definitely sure the Inquisitor would receive a not so nice letter from big sister Mia 😆 If Cullen would share that tidbit with Mia, which I don't think he would, but from her "investigative" skills, I can see her finding that out eventually. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 1:02:57 GMT
An angry letter from Mia is one thing, but having Mia speak her mind to the lady Inquisitor's face would make more of an impact  |
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I have to admit that that was a terrible choice of timing on the Inquisitors part to come out with that one. With everything their relationship had gone through up till that point, she really should've given him some kind of heads up that things weren't going well...(says the woman who never would've picked that option in the first place and thinks any woman who would is a complete moron.) 
10 years ago we'd have had five straight male romances, one straight female romance, one hidden lesbian romance, and zero gay ones 
