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Post by phoray on Dec 14, 2016 4:55:41 GMT
javeartI seem to be the only one with this opinion, but Cole killing people was an act of compassion, albeit confused or misdirected. But I don't think he was turning into any other kind of spirit. I also have my theory on why Solas wants Cole to remain a spirit, and one version of t is that Solas was once a spirit himself.
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Post by javeart on Dec 14, 2016 8:28:48 GMT
javeart I seem to be the only one with this opinion, but Cole killing people was an act of compassion, albeit confused or misdirected. But I don't think he was turning into any other kind of spirit. I also have my theory on why Solas wants Cole to remain a spirit, and one version of t is that Solas was once a spirit himself. Personally, I can totally see it as an act of compassion, even if I think it' wrong, I only say that he might (almost?) have turned into a demon, because there are dialogues in the game that seem to imply it, particularly in the banter between Solas and Cole where Solas says "You exist to help others. You are kindness, compassion, caring. If you stop giving comfort, you would twist into something else, as you did before I suspect". I too think it could have been because he was a spirit, those scenes ae full of sudden silences and when Solas ask Varric if being a person would have made Cole happier it's hard not to think there's something else there. What it's the ther version of your theory? I love theories!
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 14, 2016 21:43:45 GMT
There is definitely some hidden depths to why Solas is so concerned for Cole and seems to understand him so well. If it wasn't for his name of Solas (Pride), I could almost have seen Solas as originally being a spirit of compassion.
The thing is I find these labels too simple. I know that Solas goes along with them but it is clear that the greater demons we meet seem to have more aspects to them than a simple emotion or attribute. That is really what sets them apart from the ordinary one dimensional spirits. Imshael is more complex but then we know that originally the Forbidden Ones must have spent time in the material world at the time of the Evanuris and then shed their mortal forms to flee back into the Fade to avoid fighting in the war (with the titans?).
I think there is a clue in how Cole develops. The more time he spends in the world and the more he is allowed to experience humans emotions and remember the real person he was attached too, the more material and human-like he becomes. Whereas if he is encouraged to deny that existence, to continue to make others and himself forget their painful memories, he becomes more his spiritual self. Solas encourages this because to his mind it is Cole's true self, spirits of compassions are a rarity as it is, so it is important not to lose Cole and Solas thinks that spirits are just as valid as people as mortals are, possibly more so.
Originally I always kept Cole a spirit because I thought it was rather prejudiced to regard being human as a more valid existence than remaining his true self but I have to admit that I found his behaviour at the restaurant, delving into people's minds and intruding on their personal thoughts rather creepy, particularly as I didn't really see why they needed his interference as "compassion". I always thought it a bit odd as well that a spirit of compassion didn't pick up on the amount of distress he causes to companions at times when he reads their mind. May be forcing them to confront their hurt does heal them but I always felt this was something that should have been done in private, not in front of everyone else. It seemed like a sort of violation of the mind to me. It does make you think though. If all the Evanuris, including Solas, were once spirits, then presumably they could read minds as other spirits do. Then as they became more material they lost that ability and the only way they could still interact with other people's minds was through the Fade. May be the special connection between Dirthamen and Falon'Din is via their minds, so they could still read each other's thoughts and communicate direct without needing magic or the Fade to do so.
One thing that has always puzzled me about Solas is his defence of blood magic. I realise that it doesn't have to involve the sacrifice of the unwilling but the Divine who condemned it was right about one thing, it is the only magic that can directly control another person's mind, taking away their free will and making them effectively your slave. So from that point of view, you'd think he would be the first person to condemn it. The fact that he doesn't suggests to me that the theory that blood magic originated with the elves is probably true. Alternatively, if it was taught by Dumat, then clearly he doesn't regard the actions of that Old God in the same light as he does the Evanuris, which is strange given his views on gods. Factor in how upset he was about the Grey Warden plan to kill the last of the sleeping dragon gods and I really do wonder what his connection is to them.
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Post by javeart on Dec 15, 2016 0:05:22 GMT
(...) One thing that has always puzzled me about Solas is his defence of blood magic. I realise that it doesn't have to involve the sacrifice of the unwilling but the Divine who condemned it was right about one thing, it is the only magic that can directly control another person's mind, taking away their free will and making them effectively your slave. So from that point of view, you'd think he would be the first person to condemn it. The fact that he doesn't suggests to me that the theory that blood magic originated with the elves is probably true. Alternatively, if it was taught by Dumat, then clearly he doesn't regard the actions of that Old God in the same light as he does the Evanuris, which is strange given his views on gods. Factor in how upset he was about the Grey Warden plan to kill the last of the sleeping dragon gods and I really do wonder what his connection is to them. With a very simplistic reasoning, I admit it , I always thought that Solas acceptance of blood magic was related to lyrium being someone's blood too, meaning that it's was right because in the end every way to enhance magic was through somebody's blood... which ended up being partially right, I guess, though it's true that now I feel we probably still don't know it all
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Post by Catilina on Dec 15, 2016 0:18:36 GMT
[...] One thing that has always puzzled me about Solas is his defence of blood magic. I realise that it doesn't have to involve the sacrifice of the unwilling but the Divine who condemned it was right about one thing, it is the only magic that can directly control another person's mind, taking away their free will and making them effectively your slave. So from that point of view, you'd think he would be the first person to condemn it. The fact that he doesn't suggests to me that the theory that blood magic originated with the elves is probably true. Alternatively, if it was taught by Dumat, then clearly he doesn't regard the actions of that Old God in the same light as he does the Evanuris, which is strange given his views on gods. Factor in how upset he was about the Grey Warden plan to kill the last of the sleeping dragon gods and I really do wonder what his connection is to them. 1. And the Rite of Tranquility? 2. The Phylactery system based on blood magic. The blood magic is useful, because this is the only magic, what really effective against the templars. Probably this is the reason, why the Chantry condemn the Blood Magic. Blood Magic is not evil as Solas also said. The user can be evil, the magic is only a tool. Probably this is the reason, why Solas don't condemn the blood magic.
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 15, 2016 1:37:44 GMT
gervaise21 Also, I think Solas considers magic, any magic, to be a tool. IN itself, it has no moral value. So, blood magic in itself isn't evil. He would most probably condemn someone using blood magic to mentally control other though, just as he was against other forms of slavery. Just... the tool of blood magic itself is value neutral. At least, that's how I took this comment of his.
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Post by phoray on Dec 15, 2016 18:35:26 GMT
javeart I seem to be the only one with this opinion, but Cole killing people was an act of compassion, albeit confused or misdirected. But I don't think he was turning into any other kind of spirit. I also have my theory on why Solas wants Cole to remain a spirit, and one version of t is that Solas was once a spirit himself. Personally, I can totally see it as an act of compassion, even if I think it' wrong, I only say that he might (almost?) have turned into a demon, because there are dialogues in the game that seem to imply it, particularly in the banter between Solas and Cole where Solas says "You exist to help others. You are kindness, compassion, caring. If you stop giving comfort, you would twist into something else, as you did before I suspect". I too think it could have been because he was a spirit, those scenes ae full of sudden silences and when Solas ask Varric if being a person would have made Cole happier it's hard not to think there's something else there. What it's the ther version of your theory? I love theories! I bolded my theory part, but it might not make sense except for the post it was in, that I copying here, and hiding behind spoiler. My initial reaction was to make him more human. Then I re thought it for my third play through-- and regretted it.
See, Solas argued that he's a spirit of compassion that, confused, formed a semi corporeal body to try to interact more directly this side of the veil. This is a truth, as we now know with the book and Cole's story. To encourage him to return to his spirit form is to reverse a MISTAKE. A thing that should not have happened. A bastardization of what Cole was meant to be.
And really keying in on this, and thinking on it, I realized that my initial reaction to making Cole human hadn't had a lot of thought to it. I realized the decision had been made out of the point of view of someone who found spirits confusing- making Cole more human made him more like me, more understandable, and the human mind likes simplicity. (HA! Hello, Solas quote.) This is all a very strong argument to relent to Solas' well worded plea.
But this absolutely hinges on Cole being a confused spirit that can't make his own choices. Well, I mean, he IS a confused spirit creature when he meets the Quiz, but was he REALLY that when he made the choice to become more corporeal? The choice was made in a very emotional moment for the Compassion spirit but does that make his choice wrong to anyone who isn't rather attached to spirits being spirits? I mean, Solas really romantacizes the notion of spiritual purity that these Spirits of Wisdom and Compassion and Justice etc espouse. Possibly having been a spirit himself previously, he could be remembering fondly to the "good ol' days:" when things had more clear distinction, and spirits didn't become corporeal unless they wanted to, with nothing more emotional than the urge for exploration to guide them. Alternatively, Solas feels alone in the "world of the Tranquil" and relates more strongly to spirits being "his people" than the people around him. So, he's emotionally inclined to keep spirits being spirits. So, as well worded as his plea may be, as logical as he wants to imply he is, saying Cole should be more spirit is also tied a selfish preference within him as well. He's not a neutral party in this decision. There is very much a way Solas wants the world to be.
So, in the end, although I initially made him more human because I value humanity, then reversed course because I found that idea to devalue spirits.... I now will make him more human to respect his initial choice; a choice made when he was most himself. It's a bit tied into a "fate" idea for me as well. I will not reverse his fate and negate his will. He is what he is now, all I can do now is support his transition towards the path he set out on.
I also think that that scene where he erases his own memories to be equivalent to suicide, but I really tried to ignore that feeling while I put more thought into it. So, it's just happy coincidence that my logical thoughts on the matter matched up with my emotional thoughts on the matter.
Which is not really treading new ground; people have already wondered many times if Solas used to be a spirit. But I guess I added the viewpoint... What would an Ex Spirit do regarding Cole's decision to become more or less corporeal?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 15, 2016 22:04:12 GMT
Strangely enough the sentence that most caught my attention was when you say that Solas wants Cole to be returned to being a spirit because he wants to REVERSE A MISTAKE. Isn't that exactly what he is attempting to do with regard to the Veil? So far as he is concerned, everyone seems like a tranquil to him because they have been altered from what they were meant to be, just as a tranquil is and just a Cole was. It is worth mentioning here that not every tranquil is made so against their will and back in DAO there were writings of tranquil that suggested it was a relief to be able to take that option. Subsequently the writers have emphasised the use of it as a punishment and the only two people we know to have had the process reversed, dreaded the idea of returning to the state of tranquil. However, if you look at it from the point of view of someone who freely entered into that state, then the choice whether it should be reversed is not so clear cut. Similarly with Cole. He has been changed from his original state but in his case, to restore him to his true self actually makes him less capable of emotion (the opposite of a tranquil).
In some ways a tranquil is the polar opposite of a half spirit like Cole, if you think of it in terms of the effect it has if they are returned to their natural state. Likewise, the current world is mid-way between a totally Veil-less world, such as Solas wishes to restore and the world the Qunari were trying to achieve by strengthening the Veil, which would likely have resulted in total suppression of magic and possibly emotions as well.
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Post by javeart on Dec 15, 2016 22:44:37 GMT
Not the topic, I know , but as a side note, I don't like loyalty missions that completely leave in our hands the fate of companions. I love loyalty missions, but I prefer them to be about helping our companions get what they want with just the option at some point to stop them if we think what they're doing it's wrong... Which I almost never do, because I hate making their choices for them,so it has to be something bordering maniac (like jack in me2) or something that affects some else I like (like killing Flemeth in DAO) for me to stop them And in Cole's case in particular it's even more so, because it's kind of an important decision. I'd have liked knowing what Cole wanted, he decided to come to the material world and later to stay with the Inquisition, so he can obviously make his own choices and he should have made this one too and then give us the option to change his mind, in case anyone would disagree with his decison (though I can hardly imagine why would anyone choose not to respect his choice)
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 16, 2016 20:51:21 GMT
I agree with you on this. It felt wrong that the choice whether to make Cole more or less a spirit was ours and not his. The same was true with Iron Bull. I would have preferred a situation where he made the choice to become Tal'Vashoth himself, not because it was forced on him by something I had done, even though I think it was the best option for him.
By contrast, with Dorian's quest you are given the choice whether you simply force the situation on him or whether you tell him in advance what you have been asked to do and let him decide. At each stage of that quest, I offer my advice on what I think he should do but ultimately I am not forcing him in a particular direction. I prefer it when quests are like that.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2016 2:21:20 GMT
I've arbitrarily decided that there will be 14 clans at my Arlathvhen. Well... All the ones on the southern side of Thedas will be there. Your argument, gervaise21 , that whole clans wouldn't cross makes total sense. Clan names list from the Wiki, information related added by me
1. Ghilain: Status unknown. Likely an Orlesian clan, as they are related to Ameridan. 2. Lavellan: possibly wiped out by 9:40 , they are a Free Marches clan. 3. Ralaferin clan: Most likely doing okay. Location unknown. 4. Sabrae: Possibly wiped out by 9:37 by Hawke, but otherwise Keeperless and moved...somewhere. Originally Fereldan, became Free marches. 5. Tillahnnen: Status unknown. Location Unknown. 6. Virnehn: Wiped out by 9:40 by Imshael. Was an Orlesian Clan. 7. Unnamed Velanna's clan. Wiped out by the Architect, a Fereldan Clan. 8. Unnamed Yevven's clan. Wiped out by Tal Vashoth at an unknown time. Was a Free Marches Clan. 9. Unnamed Zathrian's clan. Possibly wiped out by the Warden in 9:30 Dragon. A Fereldan Clan 11. Unnamed Ariane's clan. Status Unknown, but probably okay. Fereldan. 12. Unnamed clan that found young Loghain and Maric in the novel, The Stolen Throne. Although I've seen it argued that the Keeper in the book may, in fact, be Mahariel's father. 13. Unnamed Hawen's clan. Status is okay. Location, Exalted Plains. And then either #12 will become my Fanfiction Suran's clan, or I'll make a 14th clan just for her. Edit Add: There is the clan that Arianni, the mother of Feynriel, comes from that is not mentioned, merely that she left that clan to raise her son in Kirkwall. Implying there was a clan around prior to Marethari and Sabrae clan's arrival. Feynriel is supposedly 8 when we first meet him in 9:31 Dragon. There are a lot of options in the above list, but it could be et another unnamed clan in the Free Marches. Uh, Worth of Thedas 2 is implying that Arianni is from the Sabrae Clan. "Arianni left her clan to persue a relationship with Vincento, much to Keeper Marethari's disappointment." <-- TIme line error much. If we meet Fenriel in Act 1, which is 9:31 dragon, and the clan didn't leave the Brecillian forest until very beginning of Origins in 9:30 Dragon, them Fenriel would be, at a stretch, barely 1 year old. Not 8. Although Dalish Last names vs Clan names is very confusing. Next up, thoughts on Dalish Artifacts.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2016 2:42:32 GMT
Dalish Artifacts:
I am struggling on this part. For one thing, I could have sworn that I'd read/heard that the artifacts were passed from clan to clan at each Arlathvhen, as no one tool belongs to any one elf or clan.
Then I look at the wiki page for the Arulin'holm that Merril requests in DA2, and it states that it's been with their clan since Artlathan.
OTher Artifacts seem to be a Elven Lore Book referred to in Witch Hunt. Likely, it has information regarding the Eluvians, or Morrigan wouldn't have much bothered?
Also, the Mask of Fen Harel, which is supposed to rip small tears in the veil. <- this seems problematic. One, Solas created the Veil and went to sleep. He didn't make it and then decided he needed a tool to rip tears in it. That would be the opposite of what he'd do. Why it's ascribed to him, I do not know. But the fact that it exists seems a certainty, as it is what got the clan wiped out by Tal Vashoth in Dragon Age Inquisition? The Wiki page is not very useful. It also doesn't mention if it survived the attack. So, for all we know, it is now destroyed as of 9:40 Dragon. (also, it's from that weird Tallis movie. So maybe it's best forgotten.)
That is very few artifacts to refer to. There are, of course, the Eluvians, mostly forgotten by the elves for they are non functional without the right magic and pass codes, therefore... collected among the human nobility as interesting objects. The Elven Orbs, of which few exist, and any remaining must be among the Tevinter Magisters. (Interesting. Maybe that's why we're heading to Tevinter. If any orbs remain, they are there, and Solas wants them.)
And one could assume that perhaps most of the Artifacts are actually writings in teh form of books? perhaps totems of their gods?
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2016 3:56:46 GMT
Names of Keepers possibly alive within Dragon Age:
1. Illan'ta, Clan unknown, member of the Dalish hahren'al 2. Deshanna Istimaethoriel Lavellan of Clan Lavellan 3. Ellathin, Keeper of Clan Tillahnnen 4. Gisharel, of the Ralaferin Clan succeeded by: 5. Elindra, of the Ralaferin Clan 6. Hawen, Keeper of a Dalish clan in the Exalted Plains 7. Ilshae, Keeper of Velanna's former clan, now dead 9:31. Succeeded by: 8. Faladhin 9. Zatharian (possible) of unnamed clan, succeeded, if dead, by 10. Lanaya (possible) 11. Levinia Ghilain, Keeper of Ghilain Clan. 12. Mahariel, dead, of Sabrae succeeded by: 13. Marethari of the Sabrae Clan. 14. Solan, Keeper of Ariane's Clan 15. Tianna, Keeper of Sendis' clan in Dragon Age Legends 16. Thelhen, Keeper of clan Virnehn. And succeeded by: 17. Mihrhis if she is interested/not killed by the Quiz 18. Yevven, of unnamed clan, succeeded by his First, 19. Josmael.
18/19 are in Dragon Age: Redemption, so it questionable to me if these are canon, if very minor, characters. These leaves me with 12 clan keepers along with whatever the heck a hahren'al is. A distinction even among the Keepers?
Most of this information was on the wiki. I am becoming increasingly disturbed by how many unnamed clans their are. It's like they made this series to be super focused on teh elves, in the end, while not bothering with any of the fine detail work at all. The clans don't have names. There are only two confirmed artifacts, a book and the arulin'holm. (The mask is from that weird movie as well.)
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2016 5:18:21 GMT
10 days, 9 gods, 6 ish jobs to describe inside of my Arlathvhen. There will be daily tales. Daily dinner feasts. Daily Dancing. Daily smooching at the outer edges of the newly weds and singles. I think mornings would be mostly keeping the camp running. I want there to be one event of the day in the afternoon. A Feast. two tales told each day. Lots of Dandelion wine and dancing after the tales are told and the little ones put to bed. Day 1: Arrival of the clans. A ritual funeral for those that were lost since the last Arlathvhen was held; perhaps the planting of saplings. The tale of Falon’din is shared followed by the Fall of the Dales. Very somber. Death.
Day 2: Group Weddings. Birth of New Hope and the expected joy of the Arlathvhen. Halla Racing! (thanks gervaise) This day, the tale of Ghilain’nain. Need to find a 2nd story.
Day 3. This day, an archery contest and the tale of Andruil is shared. Need a second story.
Day 4. The votes on the best wooden carvings occurs this day, with iron bark the reward to the winner. Tales of June and Abelas the Wood Cutter are shared.
Day 5: Insert Activity. Tale of Sylaise. Need another Story.
Day 6: Insert Activity. New knowledge worth telling the clans about are shared and the tale of Dirthamen is told.
Day 7: Insert Activity. Mythal and the Elven Warden Heros stories are told.
Day 8: Insert Activity. Elgarnan and the Tale of Shartan are told.
Day 9: Staff/Pole fighting Event (rather than swords). Fen’ Harel and the Forgotten Ones tales are shared this day. It's the last night before the clans depart, and is a prime time for warnings as the clans ready their minds for the "real world" once more.
Day 10: The End of Arlathvhen: packing up, goodbyes, promises to connect again for potential bonding, etc.
Obviously needs some polish. I am lacking activities that would take up an afternoon. perhaps the staff fighting could be a multi day event, with multipel rounds of a sort.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2016 20:33:50 GMT
The writers are very bad about consistency with dates. It was particularly noticeable with the history of Marethari in WoT2, considering that in DAO Mahariel's father was said to have been the Keeper of the clan before Marethari and yet it is said in WoT2 he died back in 8:82, which would have made Mahariel around 48 years old at the start of the 5th Blight. Whilst that wasn't impossible, it always seemed as though the Warden was a much younger person, barely out of their teens. You could even create an appearance for them without vallaslin. There is that history of Feynriel. I'd assumed when playing DA2 that Arianni's clan was probably up in Antiva and that is how she met Vincento, travelling south with him to Kirkwall. This seemed consistent with the history of Zevran, where his mother was also a Dalish who formed a relationship with a non-Dalish elven woodcutter, so it would seem there was at least one clan up there which seemed to have more to do with the outside world. So to be told Arianni had originally been part of Sabrae clan made no sense at all. They had never been in the Freemarches prior to moving there in 9:30 and when in Ferelden had lived down south away for the most part from human civilisation, so it seemed strange how she would have come into contact with him, let alone for sufficient time to start a relationship with him. Whilst Feynriel's magic first manifested at age eight, she managed to conceal him for several years before it became a problem, so when we encounter him he was likely in his early teens. From the time when Vincento first abandoned her, she had been living in Kirkwall, where she had apparently returned after her clan (Sabrae) rejected her but during all that time Sabrae clan would have been deep in southern Ferelden, so apparently she would have to have had the means to leave Kirkwall, travel all the way to the Brecilian Forest, locate the clan and then return all the way to Kirkwall, which seems highly unlikely. It is oddities like this which make the source books somewhat disappointing.
What is also odd is that World of Thedas 1 claims that mages usually come into their power at puberty, yet every mage we have come across seems to have done so at a much earlier age. Feynriel, Merrill, Minaeve, Dorian, even Wynne. I think Anders is the only mage I can think of who came into his magic as late as 12, which likely was on reaching puberty.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 18, 2016 20:43:59 GMT
On your activities, have you considered having a knot tying competition? As with sailors, I dare say they have several different knots that they use for different purposes. Judged on a basis of how quick they are made and how neat the finished result.
What about tree climbing or something similar? Also making wagon wheels. If the Dalish don't always buy these from human villages, they must have the skills to construct these themselves.
What about a Dalish form of the multi-discipline event? Start by swimming a river. Then shoot at several different targets with a bow. Knock out competition fighting with staves. Knife throwing for accuracy. Finally run a set distance over varied terrain.
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Post by phoray on Dec 19, 2016 9:16:52 GMT
So, Keeper Mahariel's death year should have been kept ambiguous. I hadn't noticed that discrepency. Arianni must have been from a clan that was not Sabrae, regardless of text, based on the age of her son vs the Blight. Why there would be a contract on Zevran's father is weird...maybe they meant his mother being a prositute was their contract? Also, Velanna from Awakening is also stated as finding her magic at 9. Wynne, also, was young enough not to remember why she was an orphan. I think the "at puberty" can just be disregarded. Regarding Activities, I know absolutely nothing of knots now do I know how to write about such things to make them interesting. I suppose it could be lumped together with the other artistic but skill required activites, such as carving. I do like you idea of the Dalish equivalent of a marathon that would take place with all of the above activities. But if the Arlathvhen were held in a desert, this marathon would have to be adjusted to fit the location. I had decided to move my Artlathvhen of 9:18 to the Exalted Plains, with 9:28 to be held north of the inlet sea, perhaps in Rivain. I was also reminded of the Dalish magic to move aravels through trees, so that the Imperial Highway is not needed.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 19, 2016 14:42:36 GMT
I found that whole business about Zevran's mother horrifying. Not only did the Crow's force her into prostitution to pay off her husband's debts but they were responsible for his death. What is even sadder is that it would seem that if the Crow's hadn't forced her to work for them, her clan likely would have taken her back considering some years later he tried running away to the Dalish and they took him in, but he didn't like the lifestyle so returned to his gilded cage. To my mind the Crow compradi are just slaves by another name, however luxurious their lifestyle may seem.
Anyway, thinking about the Dalish clans in Antiva reminded me of the story about one clan living in a forest not far from Antiva City, who are hostile to intruders but to avoid confrontation make puppets or "forest marionettes" out of scraps of cloth, carved branches, old bottles and worn out bowstrings, which they string from branches. Apparently the slightest breeze makes them move and swoop and the noise in the bottles makes a sound like moaning, which deters people from entering the forest because they think the weird, moaning shapes are sylvans or unquiet spirits. So that could be another activity for the younger clan members at the Arlathvhen: who can create the most frightening puppet from recycled materials.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 19, 2016 14:58:42 GMT
[...] What is also odd is that World of Thedas 1 claims that mages usually come into their power at puberty, yet every mage we have come across seems to have done so at a much earlier age. Feynriel, Merrill, Minaeve, Dorian, even Wynne. I think Anders is the only mage I can think of who came into his magic as late as 12, which likely was on reaching puberty.
(Dont forget Emile du Launcet! He was six.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 19, 2016 17:52:38 GMT
I try to forget Emile du Launcet as much as possible! However, you are right, he came into his magic early. Then there is also Neria, from multiplayer, who was chosen as the Keeper's apprentice at age nine/ten (depending on whether you take the italicised account of Cillian, or the normal text). So it seems to me that instead of saying that magic "usually surfaces around puberty", what it should have said is that "it usually surfaces before the mage reaches puberty", so if you reach puberty without exhibiting magical talent then you haven't got it.
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Post by Catilina on Dec 19, 2016 18:08:06 GMT
I try to forget Emile du Launcet as much as possible! However, you are right, he came into his magic early. Then there is also Neria, from multiplayer, who was chosen as the Keeper's apprentice at age nine/ten (depending on whether you take the italicised account of Cillian, or the normal text). So it seems to me that instead of saying that magic "usually surfaces around puberty", what it should have said is that "it usually surfaces before the mage reaches puberty", so if you reach puberty without exhibiting magical talent then you haven't got it. Poor Émile! He's really pathetic... but good example that the magic only "usually" surfaces around puberty, but not always.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 23, 2016 17:20:22 GMT
I was looking again at the codex entry for the shrine to Razikale in the Frostback Basin and I notice the writer speaks of placing Foci into the walls in an attempt to enhance their spells and make contact again with their goddess. Do you suppose the foci are the same as the foci that Dorian spoke of as seeing in ancient pictures of Tevinter dreamers, which he said resembled the orb of Corypheus/Fen'Harel? If they are then that means they were still around in a much more recent period of history, when the Old Gods fell silent, which I think was also around the time the Magisters assaulted the Golden City. The foci were no longer there in the shrine, so where do you suppose the priesthood of Razikale took them?
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Post by javeart on Dec 23, 2016 20:36:41 GMT
gervaise21 I'd say they're the same, but I honestly don't have any idea about where could they be now and I have to say that the question is an interesting one, because in the Solas thread someone suggested that he could be searching for one (or more) of this artifacts and I totally bought the idea, I think it makes sense... So, if I had to guess, maybe I'd go with they took them back to Tevinter and that's why Solas (and therefore, us) are heading there... That's as much as I can come up with, sorry
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 23, 2016 21:15:46 GMT
That seems most likely to me but it is a long way back from the Frostback Basin, so may be they were taken to different parts of Tevinter. The moment they indicated we would be going to Tevinter next game I immediately thought of the foci, particularly since Dorian actually discussed them with Solas. Originally I thought they might be in some vault in Minrathous but now I'm not so sure. I'll be surprised if finding at least one foci (or stopping Solas from finding it) is not part of the plot of the next game.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2016 13:15:57 GMT
Phoray, I believe you were asking about my fan fiction. I have now posted my first effort on line but I don't know if you have found it yet. So I thought I would give you the link here: archiveofourown.org/works/8952415/chapters/20489572. As someone who is writing their own fan fiction with a lot of elven content, you probably will appreciate it. There are a lot of elves in it.
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