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Post by Hrungr on Mar 2, 2021 19:06:42 GMT
A discussion of what I remember from Baldur's Gate and the lessons I learned. This was my first project so it forms the basis for a lot of my thinking on game development. If you watch no other video by mem this is the one to watch!
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 3, 2021 16:23:00 GMT
A look at the second Baldur's Gate and its expansion pack
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 16, 2021 22:24:53 GMT
Moving on to BG2EE.
Does anyone else find it hard, RP-wise, to throw Minsc and Jaheira out of the party? (Assuming a non-douchebag playthrough.) They've got as much claim to vengeance as CHARNAME does, if not more.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 17, 2021 11:37:23 GMT
Moving on to BG2EE. Does anyone else find it hard, RP-wise, to throw Minsc and Jaheira out of the party? (Assuming a non-douchebag playthrough.) They've got as much claim to vengeance as CHARNAME does, if not more. I rarely throw them out of the party, it's limited to my solo PTs or the whacky ones (I once did an all Monks PT, but I don't remember finishing the game with it). Even when I did my "all girl" party playthrough, Minsc was still part of it. I like them better than a lots of the BG2 only companions.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 21, 2021 23:18:20 GMT
Yeah, they manage to both be good at what they do -- although Jaheira fades a bit in ToB due to Insane druid level progression -- and interesting characters. I'm probably going to keep them this time. With Neera as primary spellcaster. Still going back and forth about the other two slots. I definitely need a thief of some sort. Hexxat's out after last night's session. No problem with how the recruitment quest was written, except that we really should have been able to stake her ass and get some XP out of the situation.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 30, 2021 14:48:02 GMT
Just doing the Unseeing Eye quest. Looks like Beholders and up see right through invisibility now. Is that an EE change?
Really makes me wish I'd picked up the Shield of Cheese.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 30, 2021 16:03:57 GMT
Just doing the Unseeing Eye quest. Looks like Beholders and up see right through invisibility now. Is that an EE change? Really makes me wish I'd picked up the Shield of Cheese. The Unseeing Eye has invisibility detection as an ability. That wasn't changed.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 30, 2021 18:30:31 GMT
The Unseeing Eye isn't a problem as long as you're doing the rod quest first. I meant regular beholders. It looks like they can target invisible characters but not stealthed characters.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 30, 2021 20:56:28 GMT
Just doing the Unseeing Eye quest. Looks like Beholders and up see right through invisibility now. Is that an EE change? Really makes me wish I'd picked up the Shield of Cheese. I can't even imagine not getting the Shield of Cheese anymore. Though that wasn't in the game when I originally played it as a teenager and somehow managed to do it.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 30, 2021 21:05:16 GMT
Yeah, they manage to both be good at what they do -- although Jaheira fades a bit in ToB due to Insane druid level progression -- and interesting characters. I'm probably going to keep them this time. With Neera as primary spellcaster. Still going back and forth about the other two slots. I definitely need a thief of some sort. Hexxat's out after last night's session. No problem with how the recruitment quest was written, except that we really should have been able to stake her ass and get some XP out of the situation. Fighter/Druids are strong though. Much stronger than a single class Druid. Though pretty much any fighter multiclass is better than a single class. At higher levels a level up on a single class character barely does anything anymore, while your multiclassed characters keep getting stronger and get to mix and match high level abilities from all their classes.
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Post by alanc9 on May 17, 2021 18:30:22 GMT
That's true. My PC's a dualed F/C. Now that HLAs are coming online, he'd be much stronger if he could do stuff like stack Hardiness and Armor of Faith. Still, beats the crap out of the pure cleric I played back in 2000.
Now I'm stuck debating whether or not to swap Minsc for you-know-who.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 19, 2021 15:29:40 GMT
Decided to restart my playthrough of Baldur's Gate.
Still loving the game though.
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Post by Iakus on May 23, 2021 1:54:59 GMT
I've noticed that the game often gets more interesting when you screw up a bit: So I'm basically just wandering around after hitting Firewine Bridge. (Dunno why people complain about that place; it's a great source of free fire arrows in the midgame.) PC fighter, Khalid, Jaheira, Neera, Imoen (still a thief) and Viconia, levels 5 or 4 depending on progression. Enter an area and spot a statue where. OK, so there are basilisks about. No problem; just have CHARNAME pop a potion of Mirrored Eyes and tank them, while the rest of the party engages with ranged fire. That part of the plan works great. What doesn't work great is that this turns out to be Mutamin's Garden. (The nice thing about coming back to a game after so long is that you forget stuff.) Could've just run for it, but noooo.... I decide to try and put him down fast. Unfortunately, CHARNAME runs away while other panicked characters run towards the basilisks. Yes, Vicky blew both her MR roll and her save. Long story short, I end up with CHARNAME in the NW corner of the map surrounded by a bunch of gibberlings and a couple lesser basilisks, with at least one greater basilisk still off in the fog of war. He beats them to death, but there isn't much he can do about the GB without another potion. So it's back to High Hedge. Couple of RE's later, and I'm there. Oops. Turns out Thalantyr doesn't have any Mirrored Eyes left. He's got Protection from Petrification scrolls, but they're the mage variety, not the all-classes variety. (Looks like you can only get the other kind from a merchant at the Nashkel Carnival.) OK, well, Branwen's sitting around in Beregost, and I never did recruit Garrick. He can use the scroll, right? So I go off with Branwen to do his recruitment mission. Oops, again. Could've Silenced Silke, probably. Didn't try it, and she managed to go invisible and get off a Lightning Bolt. The bolt took out both Branwen and Garrick, and the rebound chunked Branwen. CHARNAME beat Silke to death, sure, but it's not exactly a win. So much for plan B. So it's down to Nashkel to pick up Minsc and Dynaheir. Plan C finally works... except that Vicky is nowhere to be found. I have no idea what happened to her. So, on the plus side, CHARNAME got a boatload of XP out of all this and levelled early. On the downside, I am running out of clerics. When I rotate Khalid and Jaheira out of the party, looks like Quayle or Yeslick will finally get a shot. This is why BG1 has so many potential companions...
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Post by Iakus on May 23, 2021 1:58:06 GMT
Moving on to BG2EE. Does anyone else find it hard, RP-wise, to throw Minsc and Jaheira out of the party? (Assuming a non-douchebag playthrough.) They've got as much claim to vengeance as CHARNAME does, if not more. I find Jaheira's personality grates on me. Her personal quest is interesting, so I generally keep her around for that. But I tend to kick her to the curb afterwards. Minsc I almost always keep with me.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on May 25, 2021 19:42:16 GMT
I've noticed that the game often gets more interesting when you screw up a bit: So I'm basically just wandering around after hitting Firewine Bridge. (Dunno why people complain about that place; it's a great source of free fire arrows in the midgame.) PC fighter, Khalid, Jaheira, Neera, Imoen (still a thief) and Viconia, levels 5 or 4 depending on progression. Enter an area and spot a statue where. OK, so there are basilisks about. No problem; just have CHARNAME pop a potion of Mirrored Eyes and tank them, while the rest of the party engages with ranged fire. That part of the plan works great. What doesn't work great is that this turns out to be Mutamin's Garden. (The nice thing about coming back to a game after so long is that you forget stuff.) Could've just run for it, but noooo.... I decide to try and put him down fast. Unfortunately, CHARNAME runs away while other panicked characters run towards the basilisks. Yes, Vicky blew both her MR roll and her save. Long story short, I end up with CHARNAME in the NW corner of the map surrounded by a bunch of gibberlings and a couple lesser basilisks, with at least one greater basilisk still off in the fog of war. He beats them to death, but there isn't much he can do about the GB without another potion. So it's back to High Hedge. Couple of RE's later, and I'm there. Oops. Turns out Thalantyr doesn't have any Mirrored Eyes left. He's got Protection from Petrification scrolls, but they're the mage variety, not the all-classes variety. (Looks like you can only get the other kind from a merchant at the Nashkel Carnival.) OK, well, Branwen's sitting around in Beregost, and I never did recruit Garrick. He can use the scroll, right? So I go off with Branwen to do his recruitment mission. Oops, again. Could've Silenced Silke, probably. Didn't try it, and she managed to go invisible and get off a Lightning Bolt. The bolt took out both Branwen and Garrick, and the rebound chunked Branwen. CHARNAME beat Silke to death, sure, but it's not exactly a win. So much for plan B. So it's down to Nashkel to pick up Minsc and Dynaheir. Plan C finally works... except that Vicky is nowhere to be found. I have no idea what happened to her. So, on the plus side, CHARNAME got a boatload of XP out of all this and levelled early. On the downside, I am running out of clerics. When I rotate Khalid and Jaheira out of the party, looks like Quayle or Yeslick will finally get a shot. I just solo the Basilisks in Mutamin's Garden using Corax to get quickly to 32k exp I guess not doing that makes BG1 more interesting...
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Post by alanc9 on May 25, 2021 22:53:15 GMT
Decided to restart my playthrough of Baldur's Gate. Still loving the game though. Why the restart?
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Post by Guardian on May 25, 2021 23:18:30 GMT
Moving on to BG2EE. Does anyone else find it hard, RP-wise, to throw Minsc and Jaheira out of the party? (Assuming a non-douchebag playthrough.) They've got as much claim to vengeance as CHARNAME does, if not more. I find Jaheira's personality grates on me. Her personal quest is interesting, so I generally keep her around for that. But I tend to kick her to the curb afterwards. Minsc I almost always keep with me.
Jaheira? Hell no; I boot her ass out as soon as we leave the tunnels. I took her once just to be random with a "neutral/altgood" party and....wow ToB did her NO favors... Can't ever boot Minsc (and Boo!), unless doing that alt party, which I always feel horrible about booting him. It always bugs me how they brought her back, but not someone like Yeslick. OR WHY THEY TURNED IMOEN INTO A GODDAMN MAGE! Sorry....frustrating...but she's always a Thief in my party (we have two mages, myself included, and don't need a third).
Also, alanc9, playing an Illusionist primarily, it would depend on where in the Unseeing Eye quest you were encountering the Beholders. I know of one or two spots where they can see through the Invisibility (which makes no sense, and is not an EE thing).
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Post by Iakus on May 25, 2021 23:20:46 GMT
I find Jaheira's personality grates on me. Her personal quest is interesting, so I generally keep her around for that. But I tend to kick her to the curb afterwards. Minsc I almost always keep with me.
Jaheira? Hell no; I boot her ass out as soon as we leave the tunnels. I took her once just to be random with a "neutral/altgood" party and....wow ToB did her NO favors... Can't ever boot Minsc (and Boo!), unless doing that alt party, which I always feel horrible about booting him. It always bugs me how they brought her back, but not someone like Yeslick. OR WHY THEY TURNED IMOEN INTO A GODDAMN MAGE! Sorry....frustrating...but she's always a Thief in my party (we have two mages, myself included, and don't need a third).
When the game was first out, it was a common tactic to dual class Imoen into a mage. I guess Bioware just went along with it for BG2. Just wish they gave us more rogue options in BG2 to go with it.
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Post by Guardian on May 26, 2021 5:55:19 GMT
Jaheira? Hell no; I boot her ass out as soon as we leave the tunnels. I took her once just to be random with a "neutral/altgood" party and....wow ToB did her NO favors... Can't ever boot Minsc (and Boo!), unless doing that alt party, which I always feel horrible about booting him. It always bugs me how they brought her back, but not someone like Yeslick. OR WHY THEY TURNED IMOEN INTO A GODDAMN MAGE! Sorry....frustrating...but she's always a Thief in my party (we have two mages, myself included, and don't need a third).
When the game was first out, it was a common tactic to dual class Imoen into a mage. I guess Bioware just went along with it for BG2. Just wish they gave us more rogue options in BG2 to go with it. Really? I never did; I kept her as rogue because I didn't need another mage, since I had Dynaheir and I was a Mage.
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Post by Iakus on May 26, 2021 13:36:33 GMT
When the game was first out, it was a common tactic to dual class Imoen into a mage. I guess Bioware just went along with it for BG2. Just wish they gave us more rogue options in BG2 to go with it. Really? I never did; I kept her as rogue because I didn't need another mage, since I had Dynaheir and I was a Mage. Dynaheir is an Evoker, so she was barred from both Enchantment and Conjuration spells. Not a problem if yo just Fireball everything, but that means no Monster SUmmoning, Sleep, Emotion, etc
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Post by Guardian on May 27, 2021 4:05:38 GMT
Really? I never did; I kept her as rogue because I didn't need another mage, since I had Dynaheir and I was a Mage. Dynaheir is an Evoker, so she was barred from both Enchantment and Conjuration spells. Not a problem if yo just Fireball everything, but that means no Monster SUmmoning, Sleep, Emotion, etc
Right....and I was an Illusionist, so I didn't have Necromancy, which was perfectly fine with me. I didn't need another mage. I needed a pure Thief
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Post by ApocAlypsE on May 27, 2021 12:46:21 GMT
Dynaheir is an Evoker, so she was barred from both Enchantment and Conjuration spells. Not a problem if yo just Fireball everything, but that means no Monster SUmmoning, Sleep, Emotion, etc
Right....and I was an Illusionist, so I didn't have Necromancy, which was perfectly fine with me. I didn't need another mage. I needed a pure Thief
I would say that pure rogues are pretty terrible in BG1+BG2, that's why I don't mind Imoen being a dual classed rogue to mage in BG2, and I always do so in BG1 when I bring her along. TBH you just need 100 in lock picking and 100 in disabling traps, and that's pretty much it, unless you also want to cheese lategame BG2 and ToB with spike traps. Then it would be Jan, or god forbid Hexxat. Monster summoning is also terrible IMO, just use a wand in BG1.
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Post by Guardian on May 27, 2021 14:50:55 GMT
Right....and I was an Illusionist, so I didn't have Necromancy, which was perfectly fine with me. I didn't need another mage. I needed a pure Thief
I would say that pure rogues are pretty terrible in BG1+BG2, that's why I don't mind Imoen being a dual classed rogue to mage in BG2, and I always do so in BG1 when I bring her along. TBH you just need 100 in lock picking and 100 in disabling traps, and that's pretty much it, unless you also want to cheese lategame BG2 and ToB with spike traps. Then it would be Jan, or god forbid Hexxat. Monster summoning is also terrible IMO, just use a wand in BG1.
Never used Set Traps; I am very old school in my AD&D, so a pure rogue I found to be worth it's weight in gold, if not more, in BG 1 + 2, especially in the Tower with good old "Death Alley".
Did a run with Jan; he's fun for a non-good party, but....he was more of a supplement mage to Edwin for me in that group. Haven't done Hexxat yet; should do another evil run with the new evil options I have to try them out, since making an actual evil group before was next to impossible due to how few "evil" aligned characters there were.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on May 27, 2021 15:39:05 GMT
I would say that pure rogues are pretty terrible in BG1+BG2, that's why I don't mind Imoen being a dual classed rogue to mage in BG2, and I always do so in BG1 when I bring her along. TBH you just need 100 in lock picking and 100 in disabling traps, and that's pretty much it, unless you also want to cheese lategame BG2 and ToB with spike traps. Then it would be Jan, or god forbid Hexxat. Monster summoning is also terrible IMO, just use a wand in BG1.
Never used Set Traps; I am very old school in my AD&D, so a pure rogue I found to be worth it's weight in gold, if not more, in BG 1 + 2, especially in the Tower with good old "Death Alley".
Did a run with Jan; he's fun for a non-good party, but....he was more of a supplement mage to Edwin for me in that group. Haven't done Hexxat yet; should do another evil run with the new evil options I have to try them out, since making an actual evil group before was next to impossible due to how few "evil" aligned characters there were.
Again, if your goal is to disable traps and pick locks, going above 100 in each gives no benefit in BG1+BG2. You must have someone with the ability to do so, especially for stuff like Durlag's Tower, but you don't need a pure thief to be able to do so, 6-7 levels IIRC is enough. Much stronger characters are the multi-classes with thief (I love fighter-mage-thief as a solo character) or the dual class options: thief to mage utility, and fighter to thief if you actually want your thief to be able to fight stuff and use spike traps. Maybe the only exception for the pure thief is the Shadowdancer kit, that with enough micro it's pretty damn strong and has very interesting epic abilities.
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November 2016
guardian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Guardian on May 28, 2021 3:21:23 GMT
Again, if your goal is to disable traps and pick locks, going above 100 in each gives no benefit in BG1+BG2. You must have someone with the ability to do so, especially for stuff like Durlag's Tower, but you don't need a pure thief to be able to do so, 6-7 levels IIRC is enough. Much stronger characters are the multi-classes with thief (I love fighter-mage-thief as a solo character) or the dual class options: thief to mage utility, and fighter to thief if you actually want your thief to be able to fight stuff and use spike traps. Maybe the only exception for the pure thief is the Shadowdancer kit, that with enough micro it's pretty damn strong and has very interesting epic abilities. Some of the traps (especially in BG 2 and Durlag's Tower) have minus percentile chances to the check. Also, it's fine if you and others liked to Dual her; I never did. I liked keeping her as a pure thief. Each their own, really.
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