Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: N7_SP3CTR3
Prime Posts: 2077
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voodoo2722
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Post by Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3 on Apr 5, 2017 21:11:58 GMT
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Zerfidius
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Games: Baldur's Gate
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 5, 2017 21:40:31 GMT
Oh dear Lord... It's been over seven years since ME2 and some people still think reload cancelling is an "unintended feature". Oh dear Lord.... "Unintended feature" or not doesn't change the argument. But it does weaken your ability to argue it. Your odd moral high ground just sloughed down the hillside. Hardcore makes the best point so far, imo. They took out the feature, added more enemies and then made it highly interruptible and twice as long. Has anyone had any success with reload hiding? I've tried here and there but without luck. Have not been systematic about it yet.
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Zerfidius
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Games: Baldur's Gate
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 5, 2017 21:43:12 GMT
Yeah reload cancelling was intentionally put in ME3 and a developer even commented about it, saying that she didn't understand why they would put this in the game but the other team members insisted. Later she understood why. The widow has about a 2.5 second reload in ME3 with a RC and the widow has a 4.2 second reload in ME:A. It wasn't necessary to reload cancel in ME3, but it really is in ME:A with all the rushing melee enemies. My argument is that there are more enemies now and a lot more enemies that rush you, so either we need to be able to reload cancel or the reload needs to be reduced. Probably won't happen though, bioware never changed the utility stats like reload, accuracy and recoil of weapons and only changed the damage levels. Krysae and falcon were changed for the worse, but I do think a few had their reload delays buffed. Corrected below as a ROF adjustment.
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hardcoresalmon
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 5, 2017 21:46:01 GMT
Krysae and falcon were changed for the worse, but I do think a few had their reload delays buffed. Their ROF was nerfed, which indirectly affected their reload speed. But they didn't touch it directly.
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Zerfidius
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 5, 2017 21:54:21 GMT
Krysae and falcon were changed for the worse, but I do think a few had their reload delays buffed. Their ROF was nerfed, which indirectly affected their reload speed. But they didn't touch it directly. I thought there were three components that affected reload time? 1. ROF 2. Delay before reload <---- and I thought they adjusted this as well as ROF. But maybe ROF and this delay are the same property. 3. Reload time itself
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hardcoresalmon
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Post by hardcoresalmon on Apr 5, 2017 22:12:18 GMT
Their ROF was nerfed, which indirectly affected their reload speed. But they didn't touch it directly. I thought there were three components that affected reload time? 1. ROF 2. Delay before reload <---- and I thought they adjusted this as well as ROF. But maybe ROF and this delay are the same property. 3. Reload time itself From the balance change: Krysae Sniper Rifle - Damage decreased from [476.0-595.0] to [429.0-548.0] - Rate of fire decreased from [50] to [35] - Recoil Increased from [5.0] to [10.0] - Zoom Recoil Increased from [3.0] to [5.0] - Total ammo dropped from [9-21] to [9-18] They also made the shield gate apply to it with a patch. But they never touched the reload, ROF will affect the delay before the reload as well, which is why it reloaded so slow.
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LemurFromTheId
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LemurFromTheId
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 5, 2017 22:30:13 GMT
Their ROF was nerfed, which indirectly affected their reload speed. But they didn't touch it directly. I thought there were three components that affected reload time? 1. ROF 2. Delay before reload <---- and I thought they adjusted this as well as ROF. But maybe ROF and this delay are the same property. 3. Reload time itself Yes, the delay between the last shot and the beginning of the reload animation was just the ROF delay. By decreasing ROF they therefore increased the time before reload could begin.
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Dave the Scrub
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Dave_the_Scrub
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Post by Dave the Scrub on Apr 5, 2017 22:33:38 GMT
I always sucked bad at it, and even *I* miss it.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Apr 5, 2017 22:48:55 GMT
In some ways I'm glad there's no reload-cancelling, since I found it tedious to manage. But I definitely agree that it's way too interruptable. It's also inconsistent - these soldiers are dexterous enough that they can reload while hovering, but not while sprinting? If I had designed the system, I'd have opted for staged reloads that remembered where you where when you interrupted a reload, like in Battlefield. Hell, they could have asked DICE for coding advice, since it's on Frostbite and all. But the chances of implementing that in a patch are slim-to-none, so I'm just hoping it becomes less interruptable. I like my Carnifex in SP with a Vintage* Heat Sink for this reason; I can do anything - jump, evade, fire a power - and it doesn't affect the cooldown time. *Apparently the rate of advancement in the ME verse means something that was standard issue 1-2 years ago is now considered "vintage"
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Post by adangada on Apr 5, 2017 23:32:18 GMT
Oh dear Lord.... "Unintended feature" or not doesn't change the argument. But it does weaken your ability to argue it. Your odd moral high ground just sloughed down the hillside. Hardcore makes the best point so far, imo. They took out the feature, added more enemies and then made highly interruptible and twice as long. Has anyone had any success with reload hiding? I've tried here and there but without luck. Have not been systematic about it yet. There's nothing moral about not needing to reload cancel to be efficient with a weapon versus not reload canceling and being overwhelmed. It's a direct comparison between two different enemy types ffs. It's basically the same thing you just stated, except I'm saying you didn't need it before. You shouldn't need it now, and I'm not even sure it would make much of a difference. Krogans would still have fire rate over you, dogs would still be nipping at your ankles etc.
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Zerfidius
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Games: Baldur's Gate
Origin: Zerfidius
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 5, 2017 23:54:51 GMT
You provided the moral framework when you said it was 'abuse' of an unintended feature. If that didn't matter for your argument, then why bring it up? If you didn't use it because you thought it was abuse, fine but you were wrong. Because you were already a good player? Pfft. It would have made you a better player, and therefor improved the team, quickened the game. Same hollow argument as players with 255 ammo consumables not using them cuz they don't need them to be elite. I don't really care if people make choices like that, but don't wrap it up in some epeen nonsense. Or maybe you're just talking about bronze, in which case it makes sense.
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Post by adangada on Apr 6, 2017 0:20:22 GMT
You provided the moral framework when you said it was 'abuse' of an unintended feature. If that didn't matter for your argument, then why bring it up? If you didn't use it because you thought it was abuse, fine but you were wrong. Because you were already a good player? Pfft. It would have made you a better player, and therefor improved the team, quickened the game. Same hollow argument as players with 255 ammo consumables not using them cuz they don't need them to be elite. I don't really care if people make choices like that, but don't wrap it up in some epeen nonsense. Or maybe you're just talking about bronze, in which case it makes sense. Look, maybe I could have worded it differently for the sensitive types. It's just the way I play. I have nothing against anyone who takes advantage of intended or unintended features in a video game. I play with them! They also allow me to play the way I do, although I'm not sure they always understand it. I am deeply sorry if you, or anyone else on this forum loses sleep, or is feeling triggered from what I have said. I am also guilty of not using consumables as often as I would like. I may be a bit too conservative with them. Although I do not have 255 ammo consumables, I will try not to use them so sparingly in the future. Much love and compassion, Adangada
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Post by Zerfidius on Apr 6, 2017 0:39:37 GMT
Well damn it looks like I've got you talking in trollspeak. Did not mean for that to happen. Apologies, I'll give it a rest. Let's bang in game sometime, just be sure to put some token gear on.
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Post by lawshadow on Apr 6, 2017 1:42:59 GMT
If they were gonna take out reload cancelling they should at least have sped up reloads in general (especially on guns like isharay and widow) and made them less easy to interrupt. As it stands they take a long time and seem to get interrupted by an adhi sneezing on you. It just slows down gameplay and is not fun or feel good in any way, it's just hella clunky. Would prefer reload cancelling but if not that they need to tweak the current reload times and interrupt mechanics. I agree with you 100%, Speed up the reloads on single shot snipers its way way to slow. Actually speed up the reloads on pretty much most weapons but in particular sniper riffles.
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Post by capnmanic on Apr 6, 2017 2:51:04 GMT
The talon pistol is by far the best shotgun to begin with.
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danishgambit
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A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 6, 2017 3:22:04 GMT
Oh dear Lord.... "Unintended feature" or not doesn't change the argument. But it does weaken your ability to argue it. Your odd moral high ground just sloughed down the hillside. Hardcore makes the best point so far, imo. They took out the feature, added more enemies and then made it highly interruptible and twice as long. Has anyone had any success with reload hiding? I've tried here and there but without luck. Have not been systematic about it yet. It was unintended. The devs just said that they had no problem with people doing it.
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LemurFromTheId
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LemurFromTheId
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 6, 2017 3:51:46 GMT
It was unintended. The devs just said that they had no problem with people doing it. No. Reload canceling was introduced unintentionally to ME2 during its development, but the devs liked the feature enough that they let it stay in the final game. For ME3 the feature was specifically programmed in.
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t41rdeye
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: T41rdEye
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Post by t41rdeye on Apr 6, 2017 4:50:34 GMT
I miss it as much as anyone else... and it's sorely needed back imo. I don't see happening though.
One thing they absolutely must fix is your reload getting interrupted constantly. The insanely long animations are bad enough. I want to use single shot snipers, but I end up reloading for 2/3 of the match because I didn't hold perfectly still. Reload canceling was a feature, I don't care what anyone says.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 6, 2017 5:43:22 GMT
But it does weaken your ability to argue it. Your odd moral high ground just sloughed down the hillside. Hardcore makes the best point so far, imo. They took out the feature, added more enemies and then made it highly interruptible and twice as long. Has anyone had any success with reload hiding? I've tried here and there but without luck. Have not been systematic about it yet. It was unintended. The devs just said that they had no problem with people doing it. Do you have a source for that? No. Know why? Because that's not what they said.
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Post by Jack Crapper and 69 Others on Apr 6, 2017 15:03:49 GMT
Because I sure do love just standing around with my metaphorical dick in my hand and a thumb up my ass for good measure while waiting for the gun to reload. Made the mistake once of thinking it had fully reloaded and started running because, you know, people were shooting at me... only to realize I canceled the long-ass reload animation and was back to zero bullets again. That's fun gameplay. Ummm... you clarified that the dick was metaphorical, but what about the thumb? (I am conducting a scientific survey) What if they included the Bio-Converter mod to guns from SP to MP, where it takes 5% of your health and instantly reloads? Would that be worth replacing other mods?
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Post by adangada on Apr 8, 2017 1:15:55 GMT
After a bit more use, I've revised my position on the widow and isharay. On some classes these weapon are outright devastating. The ability to reload cancel, or a buff to the weapons themselves would make those classes walking death machines. At the same time, I see no way to nerf those classes to avoid this happening if the weapons were buffed.
At the time of my previous posts, my time spent with the widow and isharay was very limited. I think they're fine as they are.
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