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Post by hieroglyph on Apr 8, 2017 0:35:47 GMT
Sure the mattock sucks a lot of the weapons suck as recommended by others i am using a sniper rile as an assault rifle. The start of this game is not much different than me3mp some guns and classes stand out a lot of weapons are dreck. This is the start, 2 weeks in. And yes money is 100% for sure a factor and that is a big part of their 'strategy'. If money comes in you get lots of dlcs and a long support life span like Me3, if it does not you get daimp. The problem is that Andromeda is nowhere near as successful as ME3 was so player retention becomes far more important. The current balance is not something that keeps frustrated players around for very long. The current APEX missions are not something that keeps players active all weekend. So in truth, the only incentive players have to play is for the grind. For some of us that is enough, but there are far better F2P games with better grinds too. MEAMP is quickly becoming its own worst enemy, and while the patch did fix a ton of issues that were not listed in the patch notes (great job!) there doesn't seem to be any initiative from Bioware to keep the playerbase active and growing. Something has to change or else it will be DAIMP all over again (maybe a little better since the weapon system isn't complete crap).
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Post by nastrodamus on Apr 8, 2017 23:45:55 GMT
Sure the mattock sucks a lot of the weapons suck as recommended by others i am using a sniper rile as an assault rifle. The start of this game is not much different than me3mp some guns and classes stand out a lot of weapons are dreck. This is the start, 2 weeks in. And yes money is 100% for sure a factor and that is a big part of their 'strategy'. If money comes in you get lots of dlcs and a long support life span like Me3, if it does not you get daimp. The problem is that Andromeda is nowhere near as successful as ME3 was so player retention becomes far more important. The current balance is not something that keeps frustrated players around for very long. The current APEX missions are not something that keeps players active all weekend. So in truth, the only incentive players have to play is for the grind. For some of us that is enough, but there are far better F2P games with better grinds too. MEAMP is quickly becoming its own worst enemy, and while the patch did fix a ton of issues that were not listed in the patch notes (great job!) there doesn't seem to be any initiative from Bioware to keep the playerbase active and growing. Something has to change or else it will be DAIMP all over again (maybe a little better since the weapon system isn't complete crap). Smash and Grab model. The Industry is slowing burning out, has been for a while now. Not much one can do except not buy the games. Either then the company makes better content or fold like every other studio made one stupid decision after the other. Suits takes the money and move to their next hustle. Just look at Konami. Got out of gaming mostly, treat their employees like crap and laugh all the way to the bank. That is the future the industry has to look forward to.
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Archaengel_X
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Post by Archaengel_X on Apr 9, 2017 0:05:05 GMT
This mentality is exactly why developers get away with providing substandard quality. It isn't Bioware or EAs fault if the game is a grindfest or frustrating. In fact, it is the consumers fault (such as you and I) that games end up in states like this. The reason why pay to win models are so prevalent in games is because people foolishly vote with their wallets by not only purchasing games that encourage microtransaction payments, but also spending their money on said microtransactions. The reason why this game has gotten so grindy with most item cards reaching level 10 is because Bioware and EA knows that people will be more influenced to actually spend money to get ahead in the game. With that said, the situation becomes even worse when you realize that the large majority of characters, weapons, and powers are either weak or downright useless even when you level them up all the way to their highest levels. You say that you have to either spend real money or grind for long periods of time to get good equipment, but the reward system fails to recompense us for our time, effort, or money spent. So you spend maybe $20 on packs to advance in the game? Well congratulations, because the system will give you an ultra rare weapon (maybe) that fails to even outperform the damned Charger submachine gun. "You see all those items and characters that look promising? Well get prepared to spend dozens or even hundreds of hours playing because the only way these will be even half way decent is if you either pay of with your time or money (both would be appreciated plz)". The way this reward system is structured really annoys me because even when you invest an ample amount of time into it (I have spent over 50 hours in multiplayer by the way), you still feel cheated. I think one of the worst parts about this issue is that people believe Bioware simply "messed up" when configuring the stats for items, although that could not be farther from reality. If anything, the developers intentionally made the game grindier and less rewarding overall. Their comment during one of the streams regarding the Black Widow said it all. I have to get the Black Widow up to level X in order for it to perform well? That is just swell, except for the fact that the sniper is an ULTRA RARE weapon and that the majority of players will most likely never max out a single ultra rare item in their entire game career. Adding in a large variety of weak weapons while making only a few worthwhile was no mistake at all. They know that people would feel unsatisfied with the weak weapons they can get in packs and would likely spend real money in hopes of getting closer to obtaining one of the only few useful guns. I played multiplayer earlier today and suddenly developed feeling downheartedness when scrolling through the collectibles page. As I gazed at the selection of rare weapons, I shook my head as I realized that I am essentially spending time (and unfortunately a few dollars) to obtain equipment that I know will only make me feel even less satisfied. Even now I'm pondering if this game is actually worth playing anymore as the time commitment that is required to unlock all the items is not worth the frustration I feel when realizing how so many items that will take a long time to unlock due to their rarity are not even worthy of rare and ultra rare status. Why should I play a game that actively pushes against me with rewards that aren't even worth the time spent on them? Considering that Mass Effect is hardly popular for its multiplayer, its design is questionable when you realize that more popular multiplayer games offer better rewards and overall more satisfying gameplay. If you like the game, that is perfectly fine. However, I am tired of these games that developers keep attempting to pull on the playerbase. Did you do the same thing when me3mp 1st came out and your 1st guns were the scimitar and the predator>? There are no games here dude. This is a system reset of mp play a different engine a need to generate revenue to justify its ongoing existence. There is nothing nefarious. We have a mature good experienced player base from me3, all used to maxed manifests good player and a certain type of game. This version of mp may succeed or it may fail but you simply can't start his up as if it was an extension of me3mp and that is what some people here are pining for. First off, I never mentioned Mass Effect 3 but I'll entertain you. The difference between ME3 and Andromeda is that there were still a decent amount of guns that were overall useful even when some of them had poor balance. When I first played ME3, I noticed there were some weapons that were underpowered. However, there were others that allowed me to hold my own until balance changes came about. I can't say the same for Andromeda. Also, Bioware doesn't NEED any money from multiplayer packs. Seeing how they are a subsidiary of one of the largest gaming corporations on the planet, the amount they make off of packs is trivial at best compared to their source of funding. Sure it helps with supplying DLC, but the game does not need to rely on such revenue for it to be functional and enjoyable. Saying "We need more money" does not justify making the game purposely unsatisfying and overly grindy. This is not even a smart business decision since there are other multiplayer games in the market with much more appealing gameplay and less frustration experiences. All this is going to do is drive the player base away and direct them towards more rewarding games. Stating that a company must rip off its consumers in order to survive is the words of someone who willingly lays in bed with the corrupt.
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Post by hieroglyph on Apr 9, 2017 0:05:49 GMT
Smash and Grab model. The Industry is slowing burning out, has been for a while now. Not much one can do except not buy the games. Either then the company makes better content or fold like every other studio made one stupid decision after the other. Suits takes the money and move to their next hustle. Just look at Konami. Got out of gaming mostly, treat their employees like crap and laugh all the way to the bank. That is the future the industry has to look forward to. Overall I agree and it is the reason why the indie and kickstarter/early access scenes are so popular right now. In truth, Bioware could eventually release a stand-alone, digital version of MEAMP and support the game for years just from having APEX missions and adding weekly community events. It seems like such an obvious win-win scenario that I was shocked they didn't do it for ME3MP as it could be run by a skeleton crew once the bugs and balance issues were resolved. Considering that the N7 HQ is still running it remains a missed opportunity.
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Post by spoonman on Apr 9, 2017 0:31:35 GMT
If I didnt get the Hurricane early on, I dont know if Id still be playing as much. Boost weapon dmg, boost combo xplosion dmg, and start giving us weekend events ASAP!!
Just dont make it killing 3,000,000 fiends on Gold!
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 9, 2017 1:32:50 GMT
Balance is pretty bad and the Apex Rating is a truly a joke. Netcoding sucks too, probably the worst out of any modern game, though that is too be expected from a Bioware title.
Apart from these issues, I dare say the game is pretty good in my book, addictive and rewarding enough. Support sucks, but it is still leagues better than DAIMP's and given enough commitment I believe Bioware can make this game their best Multiplayer yet.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Apr 9, 2017 1:41:53 GMT
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Post by rafo on Apr 9, 2017 1:49:31 GMT
Really funny to read people telling the game needs funding to start getting good. I'm pretty sure I've paid a big amount of cash buying this game.
I might even buy the argument that packs fund future DLCs but the game releasing absolutely can't be justified.
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Post by missileglitcher on Apr 9, 2017 1:52:16 GMT
Did you do the same thing when me3mp 1st came out and your 1st guns were the scimitar and the predator>? There are no games here dude. This is a system reset of mp play a different engine a need to generate revenue to justify its ongoing existence. There is nothing nefarious. We have a mature good experienced player base from me3, all used to maxed manifests good player and a certain type of game. This version of mp may succeed or it may fail but you simply can't start his up as if it was an extension of me3mp and that is what some people here are pining for. People really need to stop pulling the old "oh but me3mp wasn't perfect when it first released" card. Let's make it perfectly clear that, on release, people had access to the basic human adept in me3mp who could take out entire groups of enemies on gold with a single biotic combo, and this could be repeated once every few seconds because his powers were not on a 24 second cooldown. Let us all be reminded of that because I think it's really important to point that out. It's not about starting from scratch and not having a maxed manifest. That's not the main issue at play here. Veterans of the old multiplayer appreciate the long grind that's required to get there and we're in no rush. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to consider this a direct extension of me3mp. After all, it's still the exact same game series, made by the very same company. Same universe, similar weapons, similar powers, similar characters, almost identical mechanics, exact same concepts. Clearly, it is an extension of me3mp and should therefore be judged as such. It uses me3mp as its foundation and is strictly modelled after it. To consider it a stylistically distinct entity from me3mp would be inaccurate, because it feels like a copy. That's why people keep comparing the two games, that's why we keep going back to the old game, because they're so similar and the differences between the two games aren't profound.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 9, 2017 1:54:57 GMT
I think tomorrow I am going to start making a list on what needs to be buffed with numbers instead of increase by 50%, so someone can post it on the devs twitter account.
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LemurFromTheId
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 9, 2017 2:14:13 GMT
I wish people would talk less about buffing weapons and more about nerfing enemy hit points. The former will make powers even less relevant, but the latter will buff them alongside with weapons.
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Post by someN7orother on Apr 9, 2017 6:51:24 GMT
I wish people would talk less about buffing weapons and more about nerfing enemy hit points. The former will make powers even less relevant, but the latter will buff them alongside with weapons. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Bronze feels fine because guns do appreciable damage relative to enemy health, but if they went ahead and buffed guns by the 50-100% people have been claiming is needed to be decent performers on Gold, they would be patently absurd on lower difficulties. HP values being out of whack is apparent for instance when using a Backlash specced for damage reflection against everyone's favorite bullet sponge: the Anointed. Someone apparently ran some tests and found that a basic Gold raider has 2200-2300 hp. Looks like they simply multiplied the Bronze value by the difficulty, which means that enemies on Gold have 3x the health of their Bronze equivalents. I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure this is not what it looked like in ME3.
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TormDK
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"No Fear! No Pity! NO REMORSE!"
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Apr 9, 2017 9:16:10 GMT
I wish people would talk less about buffing weapons and more about nerfing enemy hit points. The former will make powers even less relevant, but the latter will buff them alongside with weapons. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Bronze feels fine because guns do appreciable damage relative to enemy health, but if they went ahead and buffed guns by the 50-100% people have been claiming is needed to be decent performers on Gold, they would be patently absurd on lower difficulties. HP values being out of whack is apparent for instance when using a Backlash specced for damage reflection against everyone's favorite bullet sponge: the Anointed. Someone apparently ran some tests and found that a basic Gold raider has 2200-2300 hp. Looks like they simply multiplied the Bronze value by the difficulty, which means that enemies on Gold have 3x the health of their Bronze equivalents. I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure this is not what it looked like in ME3. They would have to rework alot of stuff for that to happen though. I'd rather have them balance the game for gold, than for bronze. Guns like the Soned suffer quite a bit by the hp inflation, even if you bring a fully spec'ed soldier with a fully spec'ed Turbo Charge.
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Post by someN7orother on Apr 9, 2017 9:52:15 GMT
I'd rather have them balance the game for gold, than for bronze. Me too, but I realize that's unrealistic because it's doubtful that a majority of players are Gold-only, and ultimately the purpose of this MP is to appeal to the widest possible audience to encourage more microtransactions. Adjusting HP multipliers would allow balancing across all difficulties more easily than buffing guns and powers across the board, but ideally they'd do both. The cynic in me says they'll do neither.
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Post by palker4 on Apr 9, 2017 9:55:26 GMT
Gameplay really lacks variety compared to me3. Most casters feel really gimped and gameplay just boils down to 80% shooting your guns and some grenade throwing, and then some meleeing. If you're a class that relies on biotics or tech powers you end up wishing you had cloak/turbocharge/grenades or that you were a melee build. It's a pretty sad state of affairs, and it's made worse by only a handful of weapons being good. The reason why i have 10 hours (8 of them in early access) in MP 70 in SP. I hoped they would improve the powers and combos instead they simplified them and made them worse somehow. I thought they knew what people liked about ME3 MP but i guess i was wrong.
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Kevlareater
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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PSN: KevlarEater
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Post by Kevlareater on Apr 9, 2017 11:40:35 GMT
What makes this feel unnecessarily grindy (and Warframe grind can be bad if you're going for prime parts) is not the lack of damage or huge cooldowns, but the reward packs. Everything that isn't a premium pack is literally a basic pack with a predetermined card in it. Then I look at the list of uncommon and rare cards with the knowledge that we're getting all of this one card at a time, and gods be damned, I actually considered quitting. Either I'm getting old, or I've lost the willpower to grind.
This revelation also made me realize I am definitely an idiot for getting this game.
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Post by Ajax on Apr 10, 2017 11:27:43 GMT
I'd rather have them balance the game for gold, than for bronze. What's wrong with this balance model: - common and uncommong guns are perfectly viable on Bronze. Even at low levels you can easily swat basic red bar mooks. You have to max them out to semi-comfortably deal with the bosses - rare and ultra-rare guns are for silver/gold; you'd be a demigod with a maxed rare gun on Bronze, than again why would you play Bronze? Silver is much more rewarding, let alone Gold (higher diffs could also be different in some aspects, not just the same levels with bigger enemy HP pools). With a maxed out rare weapon you comfortably swat a red bar mook on Silver and semi-comfortably on Gold. To semi-reasonably deal with bosses on Gold you'd have to level up a few times your favourite-ultra rare. That way you avoid balancing the game just for one difficulty. Plus you actually have something to look for when opening packs - "OMG I got this rare shotgun, finally I can check out what Silver is all about!" Right now it seems they threw all the guns on one big pile and then assigned them rarity ranks randomly. But what do I know, I'm no fancy Bioware developer.
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Post by tabion on Apr 10, 2017 11:46:56 GMT
I find it funny that a lot of you are convinced you can just copy/paste ME3 into ME:A ... new game, new mechanics, new engine. how is that supposed to work?
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TormDK
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"No Fear! No Pity! NO REMORSE!"
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TormDK
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Post by TormDK on Apr 10, 2017 11:51:03 GMT
I'd rather have them balance the game for gold, than for bronze. What's wrong with this balance model: - common and uncommong guns are perfectly viable on Bronze. Even at low levels you can easily swat basic red bar mooks. You have to max them out to semi-comfortably deal with the bosses - rare and ultra-rare guns are for silver/gold; you'd be a demigod with a maxed rare gun on Bronze, than again why would you play Bronze? Silver is much more rewarding, let alone Gold (higher diffs could also be different in some aspects, not just the same levels with bigger enemy HP pools). With a maxed out rare weapon you comfortably swat a red bar mook on Silver and semi-comfortably on Gold. To semi-reasonably deal with bosses on Gold you'd have to level up a few times your favourite-ultra rare. That way you avoid balancing the game just for one difficulty. Plus you actually have something to look for when opening packs - "OMG I got this rare shotgun, finally I can check out what Silver is all about!" Right now it seems they threw all the guns on one big pile and then assigned them rarity ranks randomly. But what do I know, I'm no fancy Bioware developer. The problem with that is largely the UR grind that would be required. Much simpler to balance for Gold, and then let silver and bronze be the (quick) stepping stone. Damage wise, most of the weapons would likely need to be buffed by 100% at the very least. The Raptor X's damage feels fairly dead on for an Automatic weapon. DMR rifles like Sandstorm would also need the damage in the 500-600 range, or an x3 weakspot multiplier. Rifles like the Thokin are in a good spot, but needs faster bullet travel time (It fires globes of semi-tracking plasma), or much better tracking. The Revenant specifically would need a much better accuracy, and more damage for it's intended purpose. OR They could look to rebalance mooks health pools, which is likely the easiest route.
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Post by kpeter on Apr 10, 2017 11:54:10 GMT
If they decrease enemy hp values as you suggest it would make the currently good snipers even more dominant tbh.
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Fly In The Lotion
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It's not a lie if you believe it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: FlyInTheLotion
XBL Gamertag: N7 Swan Killer (retired)
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Post by Fly In The Lotion on Apr 10, 2017 12:04:48 GMT
A lot of you forget, that kits level up a whole lota shlower than they did in ME3. Of course, some people could do well with a level 6 HA in Gold, but you've had 5+ years to practice. I remember when 4 GIs were able to fucking fail on Gold at times. In MEA, Gold becomes just as easy with level 16-20 kits as ME3 was. Shotguns and ARs could use a little buff, but wait until they start to add more weapons. At the beginning, ME3 didn't even have N7 and great rare/unrare weapons. No Harrier, no Hurricane, no Piranha, no Reegar, no Typhoon...so on. Or you can just git gud and L2P.
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"No Fear! No Pity! NO REMORSE!"
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TormDK
Posts: 880 Likes: 1,378
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Post by TormDK on Apr 10, 2017 12:09:34 GMT
If they decrease enemy hp values as you suggest it would make the currently good snipers even more dominant tbh. Easier to nerf a few, than do a total remodelling I suppose.
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XBL Gamertag: Archaengel X
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Post by Archaengel_X on Apr 10, 2017 12:29:57 GMT
I'd rather have them balance the game for gold, than for bronze. What's wrong with this balance model: - common and uncommong guns are perfectly viable on Bronze. Even at low levels you can easily swat basic red bar mooks. You have to max them out to semi-comfortably deal with the bosses - rare and ultra-rare guns are for silver/gold; you'd be a demigod with a maxed rare gun on Bronze, than again why would you play Bronze? Silver is much more rewarding, let alone Gold (higher diffs could also be different in some aspects, not just the same levels with bigger enemy HP pools). With a maxed out rare weapon you comfortably swat a red bar mook on Silver and semi-comfortably on Gold. To semi-reasonably deal with bosses on Gold you'd have to level up a few times your favourite-ultra rare. That way you avoid balancing the game just for one difficulty. Plus you actually have something to look for when opening packs - "OMG I got this rare shotgun, finally I can check out what Silver is all about!" Right now it seems they threw all the guns on one big pile and then assigned them rarity ranks randomly. But what do I know, I'm no fancy Bioware developer. I see where you are coming from. The issue with this is that is ultimately reduces the variety of usable weapons on higher difficulties. If you design guns to be serviceable on specific difficulties based on their rarities, you end up running the risk of creating an environment in which only a few guns are used among much of the player base.
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Post by Ajax on Apr 11, 2017 9:32:49 GMT
What's wrong with this balance model: - common and uncommong guns are perfectly viable on Bronze. Even at low levels you can easily swat basic red bar mooks. You have to max them out to semi-comfortably deal with the bosses - rare and ultra-rare guns are for silver/gold; you'd be a demigod with a maxed rare gun on Bronze, than again why would you play Bronze? Silver is much more rewarding, let alone Gold (higher diffs could also be different in some aspects, not just the same levels with bigger enemy HP pools). With a maxed out rare weapon you comfortably swat a red bar mook on Silver and semi-comfortably on Gold. To semi-reasonably deal with bosses on Gold you'd have to level up a few times your favourite-ultra rare. That way you avoid balancing the game just for one difficulty. Plus you actually have something to look for when opening packs - "OMG I got this rare shotgun, finally I can check out what Silver is all about!" Right now it seems they threw all the guns on one big pile and then assigned them rarity ranks randomly. But what do I know, I'm no fancy Bioware developer. I see where you are coming from. The issue with this is that is ultimately reduces the variety of usable weapons on higher difficulties. If you design guns to be serviceable on specific difficulties based on their rarities, you end up running the risk of creating an environment in which only a few guns are used among much of the player base. True, true although that was the case with ME3MP afair (I was just a casual but I don't think there was any Gold viable sniper rifle except the Black Widow and Javelin). And it's certainly the case with MEAMP, as we all tragically know. Could be remedied with specific weapon mods (a rare or UR Avenger mod would make Avenger great on Gold) etc. But again, what do I know that Mac Walters doesn't right?
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kpeter
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Post by kpeter on Apr 11, 2017 9:48:33 GMT
That is not true The Mantis was gold viable and its a common. (Widow was even stronger.) It kills an unshielded gold mook with a hs. You can use it with an Infiltrator or with adrenaline rush/marksman and make it double shot. Double shot means one shielded enemy dead on gold. At level X it was also quite light, you could take it with casters, so if you had something with overload or energy drain, one power to strip shields followed by a headshot and again we have a dead gold enemy. Than theres the Kishock, i made my first gold solo with it. It completely ignored shield gate, you can one shot phantoms with a charged Kishock shot. Don't even need tactical cloak or adrenaline rush for it. Even the viper was gold viable with many kits in ME3 MP, you just needed some sniper amps and it's just an uncommon. Even the Indra was good, even tough i never liked it. But you could kill with it. In ME:A mp widow, isharay, vanquisher are all gold kett viable. Don't have the Valiant and the Black Widow so can't comment.
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