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Post by someN7orother on Apr 7, 2017 21:24:15 GMT
In fact, I feel like there's a lack of debuffs in general. Ivasion, Cryo Beam, Annihilation... what else is there? Some stuff is hidden in the passives, such as Human Engineer's amazing Tech Sabotage you can presumably spread to five targets with Overload, though I can't be sure that stuff actually works as advertised; testing needs to be done. Tech Sabotage is awesome. Cryo Trap! I learned to love the HEngineer. Math nerd 4 lyfe, yo. The fact that it can run with both a Vanquisher *and* a Hurricane/Piranha without penalty is just the icing on the cake. But yeah. Bring back Warp (rounds).
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Post by Tsukizero on Apr 7, 2017 21:32:00 GMT
Throw primes. Why does barely anyone know that? Not anymore! It still does, it still sucks at priming too. Unarmored/Unshielded small as hell window.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 7, 2017 21:34:24 GMT
It still does, it still sucks at priming too. Unarmored/Unshielded small as hell window. So you mean Throw 5a lost the Primer effect because Throw ALWAYS has the capability to prime? I thought it was because they didn't want plebs spamming Throw+Throw combos in Bronze with Cooldown Reduction Boosters. But if it's the former, that's good to know, thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by bjorndadwarf on Apr 7, 2017 21:37:43 GMT
I've been wondering the same thing. You'd think debuffing is exactly the kind of thing people want to see in a co-op game, yet there really aren't any dedicated biotic debuffs any more (Annihilation is the only one I can think off the top of my head). In fact, I feel like there's a lack of debuffs in general. Ivasion, Cryo Beam, Annihilation... what else is there? Some stuff is hidden in the passives, such as Human Engineer's amazing Tech Sabotage you can presumably spread to five targets with Overload, though I can't be sure that stuff actually works as advertised; testing needs to be done. Huh, I had overlooked that Tech Sabotage evo. Interesting. I wonder if the passive that increases status effects works with it? If so, you might be able to keep an entire group of enemies debuffed....interdasting.
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Post by Tsukizero on Apr 7, 2017 21:40:06 GMT
It still does, it still sucks at priming too. Unarmored/Unshielded small as hell window. So you mean Throw 5a lost the Primer effect because Throw ALWAYS has the capability to prime? I thought it was because they didn't want plebs spamming Throw+Throw combos in Bronze with Cooldown Reduction Boosters. But if it's the former, that's good to know, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't even notice the marker was gone till someone told me, but yeah the duration just made what already slightly existed longer. Seems like it may be more unreliable? Could just be because its a pain to snipe somebody w/ Lance out of air after being hit with throw on a controller. Haven't seen a Throw+Throw combo yet, can't wait.
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LemurFromTheId
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 7, 2017 21:53:24 GMT
It still does, it still sucks at priming too. Unarmored/Unshielded small as hell window. So you mean Throw 5a lost the Primer effect because Throw ALWAYS has the capability to prime? I thought it was because they didn't want plebs spamming Throw+Throw combos in Bronze with Cooldown Reduction Boosters. But if it's the former, that's good to know, thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, Throw has always been a primer in MEA even at Rank 1. I've been wondering the same thing. You'd think debuffing is exactly the kind of thing people want to see in a co-op game, yet there really aren't any dedicated biotic debuffs any more (Annihilation is the only one I can think off the top of my head). In fact, I feel like there's a lack of debuffs in general. Ivasion, Cryo Beam, Annihilation... what else is there? Some stuff is hidden in the passives, such as Human Engineer's amazing Tech Sabotage you can presumably spread to five targets with Overload, though I can't be sure that stuff actually works as advertised; testing needs to be done. Huh, I had overlooked that Tech Sabotage evo. Interesting. I wonder if the passive that increases status effects works with it? If so, you might be able to keep an entire group of enemies debuffed....interdasting. It'd be great if Tech Sabotage is affected by power duration bonuses. With +20% from Offensive Tech and +30% from Support Systems you could match Overload's 12 second cooldown and keep 5 enemies constantly debuffed. Unfortunately confirming it actually works will not be easy...
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Post by bjorndadwarf on Apr 7, 2017 21:56:59 GMT
Huh, I had overlooked that Tech Sabotage evo. Interesting. I wonder if the passive that increases status effects works with it? If so, you might be able to keep an entire group of enemies debuffed....interdasting. It'd be great if Tech Sabotage is affected by power duration bonuses. With +20% from Offensive Tech and +30% from Support Systems you could match Overload's 12 second cooldown and keep 5 enemies constantly debuffed. Unfortunately confirming it actually works will not be easy... Yeah, testing things like enemy damage debuffs is a big old pain. I suppose isolating an Sharpshooter on Wave 2 Bronze might let you do it (which is what I've been doing when I wanted to test the damage something was doing). Shielded, so able to hit it multiple times without worrying about killing it, and with the faster rate of fire, you might be able to time out how long the debuff is lasting. But still not something that's easy to do.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 7, 2017 21:59:01 GMT
It'd be great if Tech Sabotage is affected by power duration bonuses. With +20% from Offensive Tech and +30% from Support Systems you could match Overload's 12 second cooldown and keep 5 enemies constantly debuffed. Unfortunately confirming it actually works will not be easy... Yeah, testing things like enemy damage debuffs is a big old pain. I suppose isolating an Sharpshooter on Wave 2 Bronze might let you do it (which is what I've been doing when I wanted to test the damage something was doing). Shielded, so able to hit it multiple times without worrying about killing it, and with the faster rate of fire, you might be able to time out how long the debuff is lasting. But still not something that's easy to do. ...and ideally you'd want to do that with Overload's secondary hit, so... good luck with that
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Post by bjorndadwarf on Apr 7, 2017 22:04:53 GMT
Yeah, testing things like enemy damage debuffs is a big old pain. I suppose isolating an Sharpshooter on Wave 2 Bronze might let you do it (which is what I've been doing when I wanted to test the damage something was doing). Shielded, so able to hit it multiple times without worrying about killing it, and with the faster rate of fire, you might be able to time out how long the debuff is lasting. But still not something that's easy to do. ...and ideally you'd want to do that with Overload's secondary hit, so... good luck with that Only 1 sharpshooter spawns on Wave 2 . Unless that changed with some of the adjustments they made to the Outlaws.
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Post by someN7orother on Apr 7, 2017 22:27:00 GMT
I've been wondering the same thing. You'd think debuffing is exactly the kind of thing people want to see in a co-op game, yet there really aren't any dedicated biotic debuffs any more (Annihilation is the only one I can think off the top of my head). In fact, I feel like there's a lack of debuffs in general. Ivasion, Cryo Beam, Annihilation... what else is there? Some stuff is hidden in the passives, such as Human Engineer's amazing Tech Sabotage you can presumably spread to five targets with Overload, though I can't be sure that stuff actually works as advertised; testing needs to be done. Huh, I had overlooked that Tech Sabotage evo. Interesting. I wonder if the passive that increases status effects works with it? If so, you might be able to keep an entire group of enemies debuffed....interdasting. Keeping groups of enemies debuffed is easier to accomplish with Cryo Trap. Just spray that shit all over a chokepoint and point and laugh at baddies falling down frozen and debuffed as they walk over it. Lasts WAY longer than Overload's brief stun, and by the time it's gone it'll be long off CD. Allows you to spec Overload for (slightly less) laughable shields damage and use as a "OH SHI-" button. Makes armored targets cry. Batteries not included.
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 7, 2017 22:49:18 GMT
It still does, it still sucks at priming too. Unarmored/Unshielded small as hell window. Yeah, at least Energy Drain and Overload primes them for 3-4 seconds. I mostly use Throw as my Detonator right now in my Throw/Singularity/Shockwave build. The extremely short cool down on it let's me use it multiple times in one Singularity. Shockwave is my secondary primer. I'm just glad you can end Singularity early when you clear and area so the cool down starts.
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Post by Sailears on Apr 7, 2017 22:54:09 GMT
Well tbh Lance has taken the place of warp projectile as the most boring biotic power in the game - and consequently will be the one they slap on kits as a third power when not knowing what to put there (as Warp was on far too many kits in ME3MP when a more interesting and visually stimulating power could have been used). As above I'd rather have ME1 style aoe instant hit warp (aka Reave which is the spiritual successor of ME1 warp) back rather than the boring blue projectile warp from ME2. Warp may not have been particularly stimulating visually, but it was a great power with multiple uses that fit in perfectly with co-op gameplay. In order to be more satisfying to use rather than blue artillery, I kind of think Lance could be adapted to be the new warp in the following way: - create spherical warp field around impact point of target area or enemy, say 4m radius? - field persists for a short time (~6-8s?), debuffs, deals DoT to and primes any enemies entering it (can select appropriate evolution upgrades in Lance tree) At least then the skill of aiming Lance to create a debuff, DoT and priming field (kind of like a ranged version of Annihilation) as well as the direct damage on an enemy target if directly hit would be much cooler than the old warp projectile.
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LemurFromTheId
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 7, 2017 22:54:43 GMT
Huh, I had overlooked that Tech Sabotage evo. Interesting. I wonder if the passive that increases status effects works with it? If so, you might be able to keep an entire group of enemies debuffed....interdasting. Keeping groups of enemies debuffed is easier to accomplish with Cryo Trap. Just spray that shit all over a chokepoint and point and laugh at baddies falling down frozen and debuffed as they walk over it. Lasts WAY longer than Overload's brief stun, and by the time it's gone it'll be long off CD. Allows you to spec Overload for (slightly less) laughable shields damage and use as a "OH SHI-" button. Makes armored targets cry. Batteries not included. You need to go and read what Tech Sabotage does. That's a very different kind of debuff. Of course, for best results you should use both Overload and Cryo Beam. I prefer Snap Freeze evo though, it makes nice explosion chains.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 7, 2017 23:00:39 GMT
Warp may not have been particularly stimulating visually, but it was a great power with multiple uses that fit in perfectly with co-op gameplay. In order to be more satisfying to use rather than blue artillery, I kind of think Lance could be adapted to be the new warp in the following way: - create spherical warp field around impact point of target area or enemy, say 4m radius? - field persists for a short time (~6-8s?), debuffs, deals DoT to and primes any enemies entering it (can select appropriate evolution upgrades in Lance tree) At least then the skill of aiming Lance to create a debuff, DoT and priming field (kind of like a ranged version of Annihilation) as well as the direct damage on an enemy target if directly hit would be much cooler than the old warp projectile. That's a bit... much. Like a Justicar bubble you can place wherever you want. Cool idea though, but could just as well be a new power followed by a couple sexy asari ladies genderless persons making good use of it.
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Post by someN7orother on Apr 7, 2017 23:17:47 GMT
Keeping groups of enemies debuffed is easier to accomplish with Cryo Trap. Just spray that shit all over a chokepoint and point and laugh at baddies falling down frozen and debuffed as they walk over it. Lasts WAY longer than Overload's brief stun, and by the time it's gone it'll be long off CD. Allows you to spec Overload for (slightly less) laughable shields damage and use as a "OH SHI-" button. Makes armored targets cry. Batteries not included. You need to go and read what Tech Sabotage does. That's a very different kind of debuff. Yep. Tech Sabotage procs on targets affected by the chilled effect from Cryo Trap. :amirite:
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Post by ReptiloidGod on Apr 7, 2017 23:28:11 GMT
I miss Warp rounds. They are nice for any shit weapon on any character that has Warp or Reave. Hopefully we'll see an ability like this later in the game.
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Post by Sailears on Apr 7, 2017 23:28:11 GMT
In order to be more satisfying to use rather than blue artillery, I kind of think Lance could be adapted to be the new warp in the following way: - create spherical warp field around impact point of target area or enemy, say 4m radius? - field persists for a short time (~6-8s?), debuffs, deals DoT to and primes any enemies entering it (can select appropriate evolution upgrades in Lance tree) At least then the skill of aiming Lance to create a debuff, DoT and priming field (kind of like a ranged version of Annihilation) as well as the direct damage on an enemy target if directly hit would be much cooler than the old warp projectile. That's a bit... much. Like a Justicar bubble you can place wherever you want. Cool idea though, but could just as well be a new power followed by a couple sexy asari ladies genderless persons making good use of it. Maybe reduce the radius to 1 or 2m so it retains that skillshot quality? I mean it does have overlap with singularity and annihilation currently (but I think singularity should be further differentiated by destroying projectiles or reducing damage of projectiles passing through it as well as slowing armoured targets), though warp should only be about offense so no damage reduction to allies or anything. If anything, the offensive portion of things like Biotic Bubble or Annihilation is pretty much what warp should be anyway so ideally Warp should be at the top of the hierarchy with powers like annihilation, biotic bubble and lance being subsets of it. On that note it is weird how they've decided to separate and distinguish powers in MEA considering how they were categorised in ME1 - it seems a bit... well a bit of a mess.
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Post by cryosferon on Apr 7, 2017 23:28:27 GMT
Warp, Reave, Dark Channel
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Post by Nightman on Apr 7, 2017 23:33:28 GMT
give me back my Dark Channel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 7, 2017 23:52:17 GMT
Considering that Overload Chains don't trigger Combo Detonations, and even Radius spec Throw doesn't seem to Detonate if it happens to hit a Primed target that wasn't the highlighted target, it would not surprise me if Chain Overload does not proc Tech Sabotage, and only applies it on the highlighted target.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 7, 2017 23:53:20 GMT
Considering that Overload Chains don't trigger Combo Detonations, and even Radius spec Throw doesn't seem to Detonate if it happens to hit a Primed target that wasn't the highlighted target, it would not surprise me if Chain Overload does not proc Tech Sabotage, and only applies it on the highlighted target. Sad but so true.
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Post by PATPATPATlol on Apr 7, 2017 23:56:11 GMT
I miss reave. I hope in the future they'll make some form of asari justicar with reave. Oh, and she'll be like all badass and stuff.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 7, 2017 23:58:00 GMT
[Yeah, Throw has always been a primer in MEA even at Rank 1. Now that's just not true. Throw Evolution 5a had a Primer icon, and the description specifically stated that it was that Evolution which granted it Primer capability. You don't get Evolution Rank 5a at Rank 1. I'm ingame right now, on my Human Sentinel. 5a no longer indicates that it Primes. The icon is gone. Nowhere in any Evolution does it say that Throw Primes. Once a match has started, Throw has no Primer icon above it, just a Detonator icon. I tried Throw > Energy Drain on an unshielded mook. I got no Combo. Pre 1.05, Throw 5a could spec as a Primer. Post 1.05, Throw is not a Primer, under any circumstance. Hope this helps.
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 8, 2017 0:03:16 GMT
[Yeah, Throw has always been a primer in MEA even at Rank 1. Now that's just not true. Throw Evolution 5a had a Primer icon, and the description specifically stated that it was that Evolution which granted it Primer capability. You don't get Evolution Rank 5a at Rank 1. I'm ingame right now, on my Human Sentinel. 5a no longer indicates that it Primes. The icon is gone. Nowhere in any Evolution does it say that Throw Primes. Once a match has started, Throw has no Primer icon above it, just a Detonator icon. I tried Throw > Energy Drain on an unshielded mook. I got no Combo. Pre 1.05, Throw 5a could spec as a Primer. Post 1.05, Throw is not a Primer, under any circumstance. Hope this helps. I don't care what is says. It has always primed at Rank 1. Rank 5 just multiplies the duration of the priming window. You can try it on a human sentinel. Put one point in Throw, cast it at an unprotected mook and hit Energy Drain the moment it lands (or slightly before, ED has a slight delay).
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Post by LemurFromTheId on Apr 8, 2017 0:04:57 GMT
Oh, apparently my eyes are malfunctioning and I totally missed that part where you said you tried it. Well, try again, your timing was off
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