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Post by nucleartech76 on Apr 10, 2017 20:45:00 GMT
So in other words it's supposed to suck? Um yeah try most powers could kill an unprotected enemy in and of themselves. Inferno nades, dark channel, dark sphere, Cain mines, flames, cluster grenades, arc nades, multifrags, ballistic blades, etc, etc. Your words, not mine. If you think its worse off for not being ME3, so be it. But it isn't they don't have the time nor the manpower to make it ME3 2.0. Also, most of those powers don't 1 shot anything on Plat unless you're combo'ing it with combos, Amps, Fortification, or Tactical Cloak. This is gold we're talking about currently not platinum. Dark channel, dark sphere, Cain mines most definitely kill the shit out of unprotected enemies even on platinum.
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Post by nucleartech76 on Apr 10, 2017 20:46:47 GMT
In any case they know it's an issue and have already stated it will be addressed. So I'm going to believe that it will get adjusted.
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Post by Coda on Apr 10, 2017 21:03:38 GMT
Your words, not mine. If you think its worse off for not being ME3, so be it. But it isn't they don't have the time nor the manpower to make it ME3 2.0. Also, most of those powers don't 1 shot anything on Plat unless you're combo'ing it with combos, Amps, Fortification, or Tactical Cloak. This is gold we're talking about currently not platinum. Dark channel, dark sphere, Cain mines most definitely kill the shit out of unprotected enemies even on platinum. You know what, you're absolutely correct. There are plenty of high impact ME3 powers. Incidentally, MEA still isn't supposed to be ME3.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Apr 11, 2017 5:48:12 GMT
Combos aren't meant to be strong because powers are on separate cooldowns now. Combos are far easier to perform now. For example, Asari Sentinel can detonate an ammo power with Energy Drain and immediately detonate that ED with Throw all in the span of 1 second. In ME3, that's an instant kill on everything weaker than a Brute in an AoE. Not to mention, that's with any cooldown penalty. It's part of the reason why combat powers and especially grenade/cell powers don't detonate anymore. They don't want that playstyle of running around and nuking spawns. It undermines the entire game and all the unique mechanics they put into enemies that can't survive that initial nuke. It makes run and gun offense the overwhelmingly better option in almost every situation in ME3. It's a huge reason why Platinum is essentially just boss spam instead of something actually coherent and challenging. How often did anyone use Justicar's bubble outside of preference? How often would you use a similar power in MEAmp? Flip that around, and think of Barricade. In MEAmp, it has a distinct niche. If ME3 had barricade, it'd be utterly pointless outside of goofing around. We really ought to stop comparing ME3 and MEA 1:1. I don't want to be that guy that screams 'they're totally different games!' but even slight changes such as powers being on separate cooldown throws a huge curveball into the design of the game. You can't change something like that without effecting everything else at the basic level. Combos are fare easier to pull off? What 20 seconds apart?
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Post by Coda on Apr 11, 2017 12:26:15 GMT
I literally addressed this in the post you quoted. And what power has a 20 second cooldown?
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 11, 2017 12:34:31 GMT
I literally addressed this in the post you quoted. And what power has a 20 second cooldown? Singularity has 24 sec base CD. A couple have 15 secs. "Spammables" have 10 sec CDs.
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Post by Coda on Apr 11, 2017 13:02:32 GMT
So the only 1 that can prime multiple times has a reduceable base over 20s, gotcha.
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Post by vanguard4 on Apr 11, 2017 13:32:06 GMT
It's part of the reason why combat powers and especially grenade/cell powers don't detonate anymore. Grenades in ME3 never detonated combos ( lift grenades and inferno may have primed ) and in MEA you can spec concussive shot as a cell based power detonating stuff. QED? Edit: Scrubbed for being a scrub. I totally forgot about Clustergrenades.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Apr 11, 2017 13:33:10 GMT
So the only 1 that can prime multiple times has a reduceable base over 20s, gotcha. That's a bullshit excuse. Energy drain has a base of 15s, down to 12s with the right evolutions. How is it easier to have 16s between combos than 3s?
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 11, 2017 13:37:33 GMT
It's part of the reason why combat powers and especially grenade/cell powers don't detonate anymore. Grenades in ME3 never detonated combos ( lift grenades and inferno may have primed ) and in MEA you can spec concussive shot as a cell based power detonating stuff. QED? Cluster grenades detonated combos.
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Post by Nether on Apr 11, 2017 14:14:47 GMT
I really hope they don't change it to scale with per ranks as it limits how you will spec. Right now your free to spec how you want without feeling required to have to spec all the east to 6 to be effective. They just need to raise combo damage base and powers base damage and leave the combo improvements as tree choices. Lol. They're not effective period currently. We're talking 1+1 explosions. No matter how you spec you'll get more out of it if they change it to scale with evo Right, but that's what I'm saying. Is increase the base damage of combos now to be equal by default to a rank 4+4 BE. Then if you take the BE evolution it becomes the equivalent of rank 6+6 BE. But ultimately I am probably one of the few that actually like BE's damage a bit weaker but it has good side effects like stunning, maybe even add a side effect per combo damage type as well. This way it still gives them value, but the initial powers are still used and valued for what they are vs only being a max rank combo power with little value to what the power is. But on that front, powers I think need a buff in damage / effect much greater than combo damage does.
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Post by aakko on Apr 11, 2017 14:41:01 GMT
I never knew all of the reasons. I just know that I refuse to play power based characters in this game after playing it for the first 2 days. This is probably a big part of that reason. I remember being so pumped for the Krogan Engineer hahaha. Asari Adept X and Lance without cooldown is extremely powerful. I suggest anyone who says that combos don't do enough damage to try it. With Annihilation field giving you shields back for every enemy that dies. You can just go around spamming lance and creating biotic explosions constantly. Paired with Talon it's in my opinion by far the most powerful build in the game.
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Post by solaxe on Apr 11, 2017 14:46:00 GMT
I never knew all of the reasons. I just know that I refuse to play power based characters in this game after playing it for the first 2 days. This is probably a big part of that reason. I remember being so pumped for the Krogan Engineer hahaha. Asari Adept X and Lance without cooldown is extremely powerful. I suggest anyone who says that combos don't do enough damage to try it. With Annihilation field giving you shields back for every enemy that dies. You can just go around spamming lance and creating biotic explosions constantly. Paired with Talon it's in my opinion by far the most powerful build in the game. Sure I can test it, once Asari Adept X drops for me after a decade of playing x)
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 11, 2017 14:46:10 GMT
But you're not killing with the combo -- specifically -- you are not killing NEARBY MOOKS with the combo.
This is what was awesome about combos in ME3. You'd create a combo off the Atlas and the COMBO ITSELF would kill the nearby Cerberus Troopers / Centurions / Nemesises.
That is not possible in MEA. You can combo off a Hydra but the COMBO ITSELF will barely scratch the nearby Raiders / Sharpshooters.
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Post by Matterthief on Apr 11, 2017 16:17:48 GMT
I don't see how the current power cooldown times are somehow an acceptable trade-off for operating on a per power basis. It's not like we're in SP back in the trilogy and have eight of them. There's only three, one of which is usually either a toggle or power cell-based anyway. So, we're stuck with base cooldowns of 15 seconds on Energy Drain and 10 seconds on Throw because every those 10 seconds they can be chain-spammed, once. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be no cooldown reduction below weapon weight limit. Instead of anywhere from -200% to +200%, the bar can only go down to increase CDs when you're overencumbered. But you're not killing with the combo -- specifically -- you are not killing NEARBY MOOKS with the combo. This is what was awesome about combos in ME3. You'd create a combo off the Atlas and the COMBO ITSELF would kill the nearby Cerberus Troopers / Centurions / Nemesises. That is not possible in MEA. You can combo off a Hydra but the COMBO ITSELF will barely scratch the nearby Raiders / Sharpshooters. Exactly. Heck, you're not even immediately killing the one mook you hit with Lance after the combo detonates. Sure, the Asari Adept is relatively fun to play and is by far my favorite character, but it's still a poor man's N7 Fury with a redundant power instead of Dark Channel. And you'd probably get a better cooldown on her Throw running around with the Javelin and Spitfire in ME3.
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Post by rolenka on Apr 11, 2017 17:17:41 GMT
Multiplayer and the whole combat system is worse than ME3 i especially dislike the absurdly long cooldowns on some powers. It is so bad that i end up saving my powers for some tougher situations and end up not using them at all because of the better save this power till i really need it mentality. Also the guns are so weak and the combos are worse. They removed the best primers (warp and reave) from the game and made solo triggered biotic explosions much harder to achieve. In ME3 i barely played SP in the first month after launch this time arround its 10 h MP and 70 h SP. ME3 you had asari adept that was gold viable without any fancy weapons from day one in Andromeda i look at the power sets and it looks like they intentionally made all of the starting characters bad, well i guess infiltrators have advantage in cloak but again stupid cooldowns mean i spend most of my time uncloaked. If this was done by the same team that made ME3 MP it must mean that the people with good ideas have left the company. There is something to be said for encouraging teamwork to pull off combos. Spam those primers, and you might like what happens. This will probably make you mad, but I think it would be pretty cool if combos were stronger but no one could self-combo. Better yet but not really possible in ME, everyone have a primer and detonator that aren't compatible with each other.
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Post by Matterthief on Apr 11, 2017 17:25:04 GMT
Because absolutely destroying enemies with multiple combos per second when you have a good team isn't encouraging enough?
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Post by taimaxsk on Apr 11, 2017 17:26:50 GMT
Combos are weaker for sure, but as mentioned above they now do more AOE and stun. Hell, Energy Drain + Throw wouldn't even detonate in ME3. Now they synergize well AND create an area that stunlocks enemies. I love delivering Geth stunlock on enemies in MEAMP.
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Post by Matterthief on Apr 11, 2017 17:40:16 GMT
Great, but I'd still rather take ME3 combos that actually kill things, thanks. And no one, not even the kett, deserves to be subjected to Geth stunlock
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Post by taimaxsk on Apr 11, 2017 18:24:12 GMT
Granted and no argument here. I loved wrecking with powers in ME3, but you had to be aware that tech and biotics didn't mesh together. If there was a kit running overload I knew I had to steer clear of his LOS, otherwise my Reave/Warp/etc would be nullified when a primed enemy got zapped. In MEAMP they have totally changed that dynamic and now tech and biotics synergize nicely. This makes running with PUGs much less stressful and now if I see a primed enemy in MEAMP I can fire away with my detonating powers. I suspect this change in pardigm is why each power has an individual cooldown with much longer recharge speeds. Can you imagine running through matches in MEAMP with full ME3 explosions on a team that's built to capitalize on combos? Talk about a cake walk.
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Post by JRandall0308 on Apr 11, 2017 18:35:38 GMT
I loved wrecking with powers in ME3, but you had to be aware that tech and biotics didn't mesh together. This is a common belief but it is wrong. Tech and biotic POWERS in ME3 worked fine together. You prime something with Warp, someone re-primes with Overload. You use Throw, there's a Tech Burst. Use Throw again, there's a Biotic Explosion because the target is still primed by Warp. Awesome. (Note that this was only possible because of Throw's super-fast cooldown in ME3 allowing you to detonate two combos in quick succession.) The 'problem' in ME3 was that ammo (NOT powers) could repeatedly overwrite power priming. So you could get a bunch of weak (6/1) tech/fire/cryo bursts off people's ammo instead of a series of 6/6 power combos. The easy solution was to use Warp, Armor Piercing, or Drill Rounds which -- guess what? -- don't exist in MEAMP.
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Post by SalMasRac on Apr 11, 2017 18:37:02 GMT
It's part of the reason why combat powers and especially grenade/cell powers don't detonate anymore. Grenades in ME3 never detonated combos ( lift grenades and inferno may have primed ) and in MEA you can spec concussive shot as a cell based power detonating stuff. QED? Edit: Scrubbed for being a scrub. I totally forgot about Clustergrenades. You forgot Arc Grenades too.
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Post by taimaxsk on Apr 11, 2017 18:48:29 GMT
This is a common belief but it is wrong. Tech and biotic POWERS in ME3 worked fine together. Are you certain? I don't recall ever detonating a tech burst with Throw to use your example. Then again, it could have been an ammo interfering with the detonation but I find it hard to believe I never caught on that biotic powers detonated tech and vice versa.
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Post by Matterthief on Apr 11, 2017 18:55:40 GMT
This is a common belief but it is wrong. Tech and biotic POWERS in ME3 worked fine together. Are you certain? I don't recall ever detonating a tech burst with Throw to use your example. Then again, it could have been an ammo interfering with the detonation but I find it hard to believe I never caught on that biotic powers detonated tech and vice versa. It didn't work the other way around, you could detonate tech bursts with biotics, but the only way to get a biotic combo was with two biotic powers. As it should be IMO.
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Post by taimaxsk on Apr 11, 2017 19:52:49 GMT
Ah, thanks for clarifying that gents. I was certain tech powers never detonated biotics, but I could see techs getting detonated without me ever noticing. Tech explosions always seemed underwhelming in ME3 unless it was a quarian tossing arc grenades.
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