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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2017 21:00:14 GMT
It took six hundred years to get to andromeda and it happened around a year before the reapers showed up. Well it would take another six hundred years to get back so by the time we got back to the milky way (if it was a character from andromeda) the endings would have been irrelevant (excluding refuse) and every character from the trilogy would be dead because six hundred years to get to andromeda and another six hundred years back would be 1,200 years. Even grunt could have died of old age by then. So andromeda may have taken care of the ME3 endings for bioware. Anyone else thought about this.
Also yes I realize they could stay in andromeda galaxy just pointing this out
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 21:18:15 GMT
Actually, it wouldn't unless they made the Milky Way just as unusual as Andromeda on the way back due to other reasons.
Destroy ending vs other endings means Reapers vs no Reapers. Control and Synthesis don't get rid of them entirely or even at all.
Synthesis would have life forms that were part robot and part life - would people even age or be able to have kids in this state? In this instance, if people don't age, there would be issues of people who were alive when the reapers were dealt with still being around. Wouldn't even need any of the old crew.
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Post by jamiecotc on Apr 8, 2017 21:22:29 GMT
If the game ever goes back to the Milky Way, they'll hand wave the ending somehow, making it completely irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 21:23:58 GMT
Actually, no. Synthesis made everyone green in the galaxy. And you would have to deal with reapers alive vs reaper corpses / humanity dead vs humanity alive in the other endings. So, it's still complicated.
I'd rather they make new Mass Effects in a parallel universe where there aren't any reapers to worry about. Make new protagonists, new stories.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 8, 2017 21:24:50 GMT
Considering in real life we have records of events that happened 1200 years ago without any technology, I find it highly doubtful there wouldn't be records of what happened to the reapers.
Also you have to account for whether the relays were rebuilt or not. If reapers lived or controlled, the relays would exist. If not, there's no way they would all be rebuilt after even 1200 years.
And finally there's the issue with green synthetic people in one ending that you have to account for. They wouldn't just disappear after 1200 years.
Soooo, NOPE
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 8, 2017 21:26:47 GMT
Really the only way to do it and still make the ending canon is to use time travel/alternate universe via black hole or alien tech somehow.
We come back before the events of Mass Effect 1
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2017 21:32:37 GMT
Actually, it wouldn't unless they made the Milky Way just as unusual as Andromeda on the way back due to other reasons. Destroy ending vs other endings means Reapers vs no Reapers. Control and Synthesis don't get rid of them entirely or even at all. Synthesis would have life forms that were part robot and part life - would people even age or be able to have kids in this state? In this instance, if people don't age, there would be issues of people who were alive when the reapers were dealt with still being around. Wouldn't even need any of the old crew. If people couldn't have children then eventually people would die out completly or be complete robots. So then after a few wars then the mily way would have no people and thus be empty. I imagine it could make people live longer then you could have asari and krogan from the trilogy still around. unless it multiplies by ten times there age then the same thing would happen they would be dead. the stuff from synthesis could die down a bit so no green eyes. And in control I think the reapers would have gone off somewhere after a while. They could have fixed the mass relays by then and several other things as well. Don't see the problem
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 8, 2017 21:37:43 GMT
Do we have quarians or no quarians. Was the genophage cured or was it not cured(i.e., krogan or no krogan). Do we have geth or no geth. Reapers or no Reapers. Synthesized or not.
It's never been about the specific characters that existed in the trilogy. It's been about the far reaching implications about several decisions, the result of which create world states that are entirely incompatible with each other.
You'd need to create a plotline that presents equal stakes regardless of whether the reapers don't exist at all, are the watchful guardians of the Milky Way, or are active participants in milky way society. You need to account for the fact that either the geth or the quarians or both could be extinct, or that they could be living together in harmony. You need to account for the fact that the krogan could be extinct, have become a threat to the galaxy again, have entered into a civil war with each other, or have entered a new golden age.
This creates a situation where you're either essentially creating at least two different games entirely while using up vast resources for content that some players will never see, or you minimize these elements to such a degree that the entire choice was moot ant pointless to begin with, or you pick a hard canon and piss everyone off.
All that being said, on a related note, I have a personal theory that Bioware has steathily established that Synthesis is not canon because it's been calculated that the reapers could cross dark space and reach Andromeda in less than half the time it took the initiative to make the jump, so in the Synthesis ending where the Reapers are by all appearances working together with the milky way, sharing their knowledge and technology, and helping everyone grow and advance at an exponential rate, you have this very important question of "how is it the post-war, synthesized milky way races haven't lapped the initiative and shown up first?"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 21:38:21 GMT
I think Bioware should go back to the Milky Way at some point, but that they should just go ahead and roll with only one of the three end choices as the ending the sequel evolves out of.
There's no way to import all three endings into a single sequel, which is why this game was set in Andromeda.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 21:39:19 GMT
Actually, it wouldn't unless they made the Milky Way just as unusual as Andromeda on the way back due to other reasons. Destroy ending vs other endings means Reapers vs no Reapers. Control and Synthesis don't get rid of them entirely or even at all. Synthesis would have life forms that were part robot and part life - would people even age or be able to have kids in this state? In this instance, if people don't age, there would be issues of people who were alive when the reapers were dealt with still being around. Wouldn't even need any of the old crew. If people couldn't have children then eventually people would die out completly or be complete robots. So then after a few wars then the mily way would have no people and thus be empty. I imagine it could make people live longer then you could have asari and krogan from the trilogy still around. unless it multiplies by ten times there age then the same thing would happen they would be dead. the stuff from synthesis could die down a bit so no green eyes. And in control I think the reapers would have gone off somewhere after a while. They could have fixed the mass relays by then and several other things as well. Don't see the problem And either of those options would leave behind evidence. Liara found evidence of the Protheans and had an accurate theory on why they disappeared and they weren't around for 50,000 years. I don't think the evidence of what happened at the end of ME3 would disappear in 1,200 years. And the endings are different enough that there would be evidence that would indicate definitively which ending was chosen.
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Post by kino on Apr 8, 2017 21:40:29 GMT
Synthesis, Control and Refuse would still be relevant. Only Destroy would be possibly rendered moot, and even then the legend of it would still be alive.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2017 21:45:06 GMT
Synthesis, Control and Refuse would still be relevant. Only Destroy would be possibly rendered moot, and even then the legend of it would still be alive. How? how would shepard be alive 1,200 years later.
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 8, 2017 21:46:47 GMT
Synthesis, Control and Refuse would still be relevant. Only Destroy would be possibly rendered moot, and even then the legend of it would still be alive. How? how would shepard be alive 1,200 years later. The legend of the Reaper war, not Shepard him/herself.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 8, 2017 21:47:43 GMT
There are too many questions that need to answered before they can even go back to the Milky Way.
Are the Quarians still alive? If so do they still needs their suits? Are the Geth still alive? Is everyone organic/synthetic like the Reapers? Did everyone die? Did Shepard decide to control the reapers? What about the Krogan and the genophage? What happened to characters who could possibly be alive when you return like Liara, Wrex, Grunt and EDI? Remember Drack is at least 1,400 years old so it's not hard to believe Grunt and Wrex may still be alive. And EDI could live forever so long as she takes care of her body.
There no way they can answer those without being
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 21:47:43 GMT
The fate of the Quarians, Geth, and Krogan wouldn't make a Milky Way sequel impossible.
The sequel would just have to tone down some of the effects that were suggested for those choices. It was a bit silly to have the player character determine whether entire species live or die anyway. If the player sided with the Quarians, they control Rannoch. If the player sided with the Geth, the Quarians are still ship-based exiles. The genophage decision would just determine whether or not Tuchanka was post-apocalyptic, or had entered a renaissance while the Krogan resettled other worlds. All of that could be addressed in codex entries and the occasional bit of dialogue.
At most the devs just couldn't have Rannoch, the Migrant Fleet, or Tuchanka as locations that could be visited, but in a galaxy with billions of planets that isn't an issue.
Really the only barrier to a Milky Way sequel is whether or not everyone got turned into a cyborg via Synthesis. Synthesis is the ending that broke the setting.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 8, 2017 21:49:49 GMT
We return to the Milk Way only to find: When the Jaardan (sp?) left Heleus they went to the MW while we were heading to Heleus. They have set up all their Remnant tech and cleaned away all traces of the old Reaper societies only to have the scourge follow them and ruin the MW. We arrive back just in time to have to reset all the Remnant tech all over again. Wouldn't that be a real kick in the cajones?
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 8, 2017 21:50:10 GMT
I maintain that Refuse may be the best ending from a narrative standpoint when Andromeda is taken into account. Personally I like Destroy as a cap off for the trilogy as a stand alone story, but with Andromeda, Refuse presents the best options.
Firstly it raises the stakes of Andromeda considerably. It goes from "well, those idiots who went to settle another galaxy got themselves killed, oh well." to "the continuity of this cycle's society and culture rest with you, you are our last chance".
Secondly, Refuse establishes that the next cycle is the one that beats the Reapers for good. If that next cycle is spearheaded by people from Andromeda having come back to find the remains of civilization relatively fresh after the war and with a massive headstart on rebuilding before the next cycle, that's really a more satisfying conclusion than "The Yahg did it, I guess".
Just one man's opinion.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 8, 2017 21:52:56 GMT
Synthesis, Control and Refuse would still be relevant. Only Destroy would be possibly rendered moot, and even then the legend of it would still be alive. How? how would shepard be alive 1,200 years later. Shepard is "alive" in two of the ending. In control, he is more or less the reapers and if you pick refuse he lives. Yes after 1,200 years Shepard would be dead but his legend wouldn't be seeing that he/she is the biggest hero the Milky Way has ever seen. There would be books about him/her, cities, people, planets and holidays named after them by this point.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 8, 2017 21:55:03 GMT
I maintain that Refuse may be the best ending from a narrative standpoint when Andromeda is taken into account. Personally I like Destroy as a cap off for the trilogy as a stand alone story, but with Andromeda, Refuse presents the best options. Firstly it raises the stakes of Andromeda considerably. It goes from "well, those idiots who went to settle another galaxy got themselves killed, oh well." to "the continuity of this cycle's society and culture rest with you, you are our last chance". Secondly, Refuse establishes that the next cycle is the one that beats the Reapers for good. If that next cycle is spearheaded by people from Andromeda having come back to find the remains of civilization relatively fresh after the war and with a massive headstart on rebuilding before the next cycle, that's really a more satisfying conclusion than "The Yahg did it, I guess". Just one man's opinion. The Reapers would just come earlier. Cause they leave one behind to check up on the current cycle, remember?
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 8, 2017 21:55:40 GMT
How? how would shepard be alive 1,200 years later. Shepard is "alive" in two of the ending. In control, he is more or less the reapers and if you pick refuse he lives. Yes after 1,200 years Shepard would be dead but his legend wouldn't be seeing that he/she is the biggest hero the Milky Way has ever seen. There would be books about him/her, cities, people, planets and holidays named after them by this point. Did I miss something? Cause everybody dies in refuse. Everybody.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 8, 2017 21:58:41 GMT
The fate of the Quarians, Geth, and Krogan wouldn't make a Milky Way sequel impossible. The sequel would just have to tone down some of the effects that were suggested for those choices. It was a bit silly to have the player character determine whether entire species live or die anyway. If the player sided with the Quarians, they control Rannoch. If the player sided with the Geth, the Quarians are still ship-based exiles. The genophage decision would just determine whether or not Tuchanka was post-apocalyptic, or had entered a renaissance while the Krogan resettled other worlds. All of that could be addressed in codex entries and the occasional bit of dialogue. At most the devs just couldn't have Rannoch, the Migrant Fleet, or Tuchanka as locations that could be visited, but in a galaxy with billions of planets that isn't an issue. Really the only barrier to a Milky Way sequel is whether or not everyone got turned into a cyborg via Synthesis. Synthesis is the ending that broke the setting. That wouldn't work because base off what you picked the Quarians or Geth are basically extinct. You can't just say the Qurarians are exiles because the Fleet is destroyed and the same for the Geth. Bioware would have to pick a side.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 8, 2017 21:59:23 GMT
Shepard is "alive" in two of the ending. In control, he is more or less the reapers and if you pick refuse he lives. Yes after 1,200 years Shepard would be dead but his legend wouldn't be seeing that he/she is the biggest hero the Milky Way has ever seen. There would be books about him/her, cities, people, planets and holidays named after them by this point. Did I miss something? Cause everybody dies in refuse. Everybody. I was confusing it with the red ending my bad
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Post by n7vakarian on Apr 8, 2017 22:02:33 GMT
The effect of the endings you pick would still be in play even 1200 years after ME3. It's not something Bioware could just make all the same by then.
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Post by RoboticWater on Apr 8, 2017 22:04:28 GMT
I maintain that Refuse may be the best ending from a narrative standpoint when Andromeda is taken into account. Personally I like Destroy as a cap off for the trilogy as a stand alone story, but with Andromeda, Refuse presents the best options. Firstly it raises the stakes of Andromeda considerably. It goes from "well, those idiots who went to settle another galaxy got themselves killed, oh well." to "the continuity of this cycle's society and culture rest with you, you are our last chance". Secondly, Refuse establishes that the next cycle is the one that beats the Reapers for good. If that next cycle is spearheaded by people from Andromeda having come back to find the remains of civilization relatively fresh after the war and with a massive headstart on rebuilding before the next cycle, that's really a more satisfying conclusion than "The Yahg did it, I guess". Just one man's opinion. I would love it if BioWare canonized refuse. Just think of all the fans pining for a return to the Milky Way; the faces they'd get when BioWare tells them they get to go home, but everything they know and love is dead and the galaxy is now home to an entirely different race. Unfortunately though, that wouldn't work for a number of reasons. For one, it would take thousands of years before another civilization would be at the same techlevel we achieved in the trilogy. In that amount of time (barring contrived plot devices), the milky way races in Andromeda would probably have evolved past the point of singularity. More importantly though, BioWare doesn't have the balls.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 22:05:13 GMT
I maintain that Refuse may be the best ending from a narrative standpoint when Andromeda is taken into account. Personally I like Destroy as a cap off for the trilogy as a stand alone story, but with Andromeda, Refuse presents the best options. Firstly it raises the stakes of Andromeda considerably. It goes from "well, those idiots who went to settle another galaxy got themselves killed, oh well." to "the continuity of this cycle's society and culture rest with you, you are our last chance". Secondly, Refuse establishes that the next cycle is the one that beats the Reapers for good. If that next cycle is spearheaded by people from Andromeda having come back to find the remains of civilization relatively fresh after the war and with a massive headstart on rebuilding before the next cycle, that's really a more satisfying conclusion than "The Yahg did it, I guess". Just one man's opinion. There are three problems with Refuse that probably rule it out as ever being used for a sequel. The first is that it was only available through DLC, which means that the majority of people who played ME3 probably never saw it. While many people went back to the play the game after the Extended Cut released, most probably did not and had already moved on to other games. Of those who played through the Extended Cut, there are probably a good number who still don't know the refuse ending exists. A post-refuse sequel would confuse a lot of people who played the original trilogy, perhaps even the majority of the them. The second is that Refuse is effectively the "You lose" ending of the Extended Cut. It is a more elaborate version of the Critical Mission failure screen. As such, a Refuse sequel would probably not sit well with a lot of people who played the first three games. Remember much of the ending controversy was over the impression that Shepard didn't really win. A Refuse sequel would confirm it. Finally Refuse would defeat the purpose of returning to the Milky Way by doing away with anything and everything that was familiar. The appeal of returning to the Milky Way is returning to some of the places players came to know and live in the first three games, like the Citadel, Nos Astra, or Omega, interacting with Asari and Turians and Quarians, and maybe experiencing some of the effects of Shepard's actions in the original trilogy. If Bioware wants an entirely clean break from ME3, it would be better to just keep the games set in Andromeda.
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